When Manning marches up and down the line of scrimmage (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

Right before the play begins, that is legal, right? It must be because it is never called, but a friend of mine always insists that it should be a penalty. Can anyone with extensive knowledge of the NFL rulebook give me some insight on this?

 

[aposulli]

Right before the play begins, that is legal, right? It must be because it is never called, but a friend of mine always insists that it should be a penalty. Can anyone with extensive knowledge of the NFL rulebook give me some insight on this?

It's only as if he's in motion as I understand it.He cannot be moving at the snap of the ball, that's all.Pats tried a trick play last week where Brady faked calling an audible as he was walking behind the Tackle. They called a penalty on the direct snap to Faulk because Bradyn't hadn't come to a complete stop.

 

[prymetyme25]

I for one think they let the Colts get away with alot of pre snap movement. even the Center pops his head up alot like he has snapped the ball. the guards and tackles pop up alot to when he is doing all that fake audible stuff. I really dont think thats right to let them do that seeing as how it could cause the other team to jump off sides.

But hey I'm no ref thats just one mans opinion.

 

[dawgtrails]

Right before the play begins, that is legal, right? It must be because it is never called, but a friend of mine always insists that it should be a penalty. Can anyone with extensive knowledge of the NFL rulebook give me some insight on this?

It's only as if he's in motion as I understand it.He cannot be moving at the snap of the ball, that's all.Pats tried a trick play last week where Brady faked calling an audible as he was walking behind the Tackle. They called a penalty on the direct snap to Faulk because Bradyn't hadn't come to a complete stop.

That doesn't seem right.Here is the rule 7. All players of offensive team must be stationary at snap, except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward).There must have been another player in motion. As long as he is moving sideways, or backward.By the way...do they still do those segments "you make the call"? I havent seen that recently, I thorughly enjoyed that as a kid.

 

[GregR_2]

I'd assume he's saying it should be judged to be a false start, not illegal motion.

The rules leave up to the refs where the QB's movement was an attempt to draw an opponent offside. So a head bob would be called, but standing up and walking down the line to yell an audible generally wouldn't be as it's an expected part of a QB's actions.

 

[Marc Levin]

The rule quoted above says everyone must be stationary at the snap - not sure why Manning yelling audible commands before he sets th eteam for a snap is a penalty.

Am I misunderstanding the question?

 

[Marc Levin]

I'd assume he's saying it should be judged to be a false start, not illegal motion.The rules leave up to the refs where the QB's movement was an attempt to draw an opponent offside. So a head bob would be called, but standing up and walking down the line to yell an audible generally wouldn't be as it's an expected part of a QB's actions.

Simulating a snap is a false start, but the QB can run and dance a jig in the backfield - doesn't have to be a normal QB motion - right up until the point the ball is snapped (as long as another player is not in motion).You are allowed to have one person in motion before the snap - two in motion at the same time before the snap is the illegal motion.illegal procedure is the failure to have sufficient numbers of people on the line - what is it - 7 on the LOS at all times, right?

 

[redman]

I'd assume he's saying it should be judged to be a false start, not illegal motion.The rules leave up to the refs where the QB's movement was an attempt to draw an opponent offside. So a head bob would be called, but standing up and walking down the line to yell an audible generally wouldn't be as it's an expected part of a QB's actions.

Simulating a snap is a false start, but the QB can run and dance a jig in the backfield - doesn't have to be a normal QB motion - right up until the point the ball is snapped (as long as another player is not in motion).You are allowed to have one person in motion before the snap - two in motion at the same time before the snap is the illegal motion.illegal procedure is the failure to have sufficient numbers of people on the line - what is it - 7 on the LOS at all times, right?

This was my understanding too.

 

[BlackHole]

The rule quoted above says everyone must be stationary at the snap - not sure why Manning yelling audible commands before he sets th eteam for a snap is a penalty.

Am I misunderstanding the question?

I think the question is a good one, IF any of the backs or WR's go into motion at the same time Manning is doing this, maybe it should be a penalty for illegal procedure (two men in motion).As for the o-line, I don't get it either. I know in college and high school (not the same I know) we could not move the way the o-line does in the pros or it'd be a penalty. Especially the way NFL centers move, rock, twist the ball as they move, point and call out blocking schemes. This stuff amazes me that they are allowed to do it, but if a d-line man jumps and makes an o-line man jump it is encroachment. I don't get it.

 

[BlueOnion]

illegal procedure is the failure to have sufficient numbers of people on the line - what is it - 7 on the LOS at all times, right?

I believe what you describe is an illegal formation; 6 or 8 man on the line of scrimmage. Illegal procedures I am at a complete lost. Is it a player in motion but moving towards the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball?

 

[BlueOnion]

I think the question is a good one, IF any of the backs or WR's go into motion at the same time Manning is doing this, maybe it should be a penalty for illegal procedure (two men in motion).

You can have two men in motion, you can have three men in motion. But only one can be moving at the snap of the ball.Joe Gibbs did a lot of multiple shifts in the 80s and early 90s with lots of success.

 

[John Mamula]

Great Lakes coast bias.

 

[dawgtrails]

The rule quoted above says everyone must be stationary at the snap - not sure why Manning yelling audible commands before he sets th eteam for a snap is a penalty.

Am I misunderstanding the question?

I think the question is a good one, IF any of the backs or WR's go into motion at the same time Manning is doing this, maybe it should be a penalty for illegal procedure (two men in motion).As for the o-line, I don't get it either. I know in college and high school (not the same I know) we could not move the way the o-line does in the pros or it'd be a penalty. Especially the way NFL centers move, rock, twist the ball as they move, point and call out blocking schemes. This stuff amazes me that they are allowed to do it, but if a d-line man jumps and makes an o-line man jump it is encroachment. I don't get it.

Here is the relevant section as far as O-linemen go

3. No interior lineman may move abruptly after taking or simulating a three-point stance.

So, if they are in a 3 point stance, but turn to hear the QB audible, or move in such a way that does not look like it's intention is to draw the defense offsides, then they are fine to do that. It is in the referees discretion as to the intention of their movement

Manning can run up and down the line of scrimmage if he wants. He could run to the sideline to talk to the coach, he could whispper in Harrison's ear if he likes. If he is moving when the ball is snapped, everyone else needs to be set. If he is stationary when the ball is snapped (no matter where he is) then another player can be in motion at that point in time.

 

[redman]

Actually, it would be interesting for a QB under center, in one of those 4th-and-short situations where they're trying to induce the defense to jump offsides, to suddenly sprint away from the center parallel to the line of scrimmage while pretending to hold the ball. That would appear to be legal, no?

 

[JayMan]

Manning can run up and down the line of scrimmage if he wants. He could run to the sideline to talk to the coach, he could whispper in Harrison's ear if he likes. If he is moving when the ball is snapped, everyone else needs to be set. If he is stationary when the ball is snapped (no matter where he is) then another player can be in motion at that point in time.

... it's simple - only one guy in motion (not going forward) at the snap... pre-snap, they can do whatever they want but obviously not faking the snap...Suppose Manning is walking up and down the line with their fake audibles:1. If he comes back under center to take the snap - he obvisouly is not in motion - so another back can be in motion;2. If he does not come back under center (the NE direct snap to Faulk last week example) - then no other player can be moving (since Manning is the one considered in motion).

 

[Archie Bunker]

illegal procedure is the failure to have sufficient numbers of people on the line - what is it - 7 on the LOS at all times, right?

I believe what you describe is an illegal formation; 6 or 8 man on the line of scrimmage. Illegal procedures I am at a complete lost. Is it a player in motion but moving towards the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball?

You are correct.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

You can have 6 players in motion, QB and 5 eligible recievers, however they must be stationary for 1 second before the snap. That is for multiple players in moition.

One player can be in motion at the time of the snap, but he cannot be moving forward.

Seven, and only seven, players must be on the LOS at the snap. 3 on each side of the center. There is no rule about how close the players have to be. For example, a team could line up with the center at midfield and 3 guys on the LOS on each side at the sideline

The Brady play was illegal because once a QB goes under center, he must take the snap. This rule is not in effect if the QB is in the shotgun.

The Colts could be called for offsides (simulating the snap) when the center picks his head up before he snaps the ball and for Manning going under center and then quickly moving to gesture to the recievers and backs. It is completely up to the refs discression whether or not any of these actions are simulating the snap.

So yes, Manning COULD be called for a penalty.

 

[Marc Levin]

illegal procedure is the failure to have sufficient numbers of people on the line - what is it - 7 on the LOS at all times, right?

I believe what you describe is an illegal formation; 6 or 8 man on the line of scrimmage. Illegal procedures I am at a complete lost. Is it a player in motion but moving towards the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball?

Correct - my bad - IP is moving forward towards the LOS by a player not onthe LOS. That is to prevent the RB from getting a "head start" towards the LOS before the ball is snapped.That's the difference with Canadian foo - they can have a WR running at the LOS as long as he doesn't cross before the ball is snapped -you see that all the time in their foo.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

illegal procedure is the failure to have sufficient numbers of people on the line - what is it - 7 on the LOS at all times, right?

I believe what you describe is an illegal formation; 6 or 8 man on the line of scrimmage. Illegal procedures I am at a complete lost. Is it a player in motion but moving towards the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball?

I don't think you need exactly seven on the line, just to have at least seven. This would cover multiple tight end sets, unbalanced lines, etc.The only stipulation is that the "ends" must be eligible receivers or a lineman who has reported himself "eligible" to the referee.The ruling in the Seahawks game last week was that the split end on the left was not on the line (essentially making him a flanker), and leaving the left tackle uncovered. Had he been on the line, it would have been legal.

 

[Bull Dozier]

I think the question is a good one, IF any of the backs or WR's go into motion at the same time Manning is doing this, maybe it should be a penalty for illegal procedure (two men in motion).

You can have two men in motion, you can have three men in motion. But only one can be moving at the snap of the ball.Joe Gibbs did a lot of multiple shifts in the 80s and early 90s with lots of success.

If you have multiple people moving before the snap (they are really shifting, not in motion), all must be set, before anyone goes in motion and is moving before the snap. If three people reset and one of them never sets before the snap, it is an illegal shift.

 

[Scorehoard]

Here let me just sum this up right now. Peyton Manning is a veteran QB and tops in the league at that. Has quite the knack for calling audibles and does so nearly every play. Being that this is such a trademark of his and being the veteran he is, I'm sure he's looked into the rules for what he can and cannot do. Not to mention coaching staffs need to know the rules as well. Can't hardly teach the wrong thing can you?

 

[CowboyFan]

You can have 6 players in motion, QB and 5 eligible recievers, however they must be stationary for 1 second before the snap. That is for multiple players in moition.

Key part that no one had mentioned.

 

[scratcher]

Pats tried a trick play last week where Brady faked calling an audible as he was walking behind the Tackle. They called a penalty on the direct snap to Faulk because Bradyn't hadn't come to a complete stop.

That's weird, I've definitely seen the Colts do this before (without a penalty).

 

[trader jake]

To answer the question: what Peyton Manning does at the line of scrimmage is NOT a penalty. Carry on.

 

[Phlash]

Heres how I understand the rules.

When an offense lines up, there are 11 guys on the offensive side of the ball (OBVIOUSLY) but there must be SEVEN of them are on the line of scrimmage. The 5 offensive lineman are always on the LoS, and then a combination of 2 total WR/TE/RB can be lined up on the LoS. These guys CANNOT make any movement during the snap. However, the other 4 guys who play a yard off of the LoS and can be moving while the ball is snapped (which is why you'll see TEs strafing sideways behind the O-line while the ball is, or a WR running behind the QB and such).

Another thing to note is that before the snap, if a QB calls an audible, all the players may move around to different positions and change who's on the line pre-snap.

 

[CowboyFan]

Pats tried a trick play last week where Brady faked calling an audible as he was walking behind the Tackle. They called a penalty on the direct snap to Faulk because Bradyn't hadn't come to a complete stop.

That's weird, I've definitely seen the Colts do this before (without a penalty).

I have no idea what play you are talking about, but that type of play is legal. Either there was another player in motion or Brady was drifting towards the LOS. Find a refering to this play, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts your account of what happened is wrong.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Pats tried a trick play last week where Brady faked calling an audible as he was walking behind the Tackle. They called a penalty on the direct snap to Faulk because Bradyn't hadn't come to a complete stop.

That's weird, I've definitely seen the Colts do this before (without a penalty).

I have no idea what play you are talking about, but that type of play is legal. Either there was another player in motion or Brady was drifting towards the LOS. Find a refering to this play, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts your account of what happened is wrong.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is there not a rule that if the QB lines up under center, he must take the snap? Maybe when Peyton does it, he doesn't squat under center, and that is what Brady did.I don't know, I haven't seen either play, I just vaguely remember this being called on the Vikes years ago.