When was America "great?" When did we lose our country.. (1 Viewer)

[msommer]

UPDATE:

Current Top 3 choices for the time period where America was "great", as far as I can tell:

3. The 80's

2. Sometime before hippies or some other counterculture movement where we had family values and kids were respectful and we had dinner as families and don't get me started on the wussification of America.

1. Great can't be narrowed down to a specific time period, and there are varying degrees of greatness. The current time period is the greatest ever, but still has a ton of flaws, and this will likely always be the case. Anybody who longs for days when the country was certifiably "great" are remembering an idyllic time period that never really existed. So, basically, the whole idea of "taking our country back" or "returning the US to greatness" is pretty simplistic if not outright stupid.

Very good posting.

Similarly, in business when someone wants to "go back to the basics" it is time to run away screaming. The answers to today's questions are rarely in the past.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The only good milkman is a dead milkman.

All of them are these days, I guessI forget, how many times does the milkman ring?

The postman rings twice.

The milkman just shows up in his #####in' camaro.

...with a punk rock girl in the passenger seat.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

America is great because we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by countries with guns. Who's gonna do it? Norway? France? We have a greater responsibility than those countries could possibly fathom. They weep for the third world, and curse America's influence. They have the luxury of not knowing what we know...that our existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to them, saves lives. They don't want the truth because deep down in places they don't talk about at UN meetings, they WANT us on that wall, they NEED us on that wall. We use words like freedom, justice, liberty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. They use them as a punchline. We have neither the time nor the inclination to explain ourselve to people who rise and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that we provide, and then question the manner in which we provide it. We'd rather they just said thank you, and went on their way, Otherwise, we suggest they pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, we don't give a damn WHAT THEY THINK THEY'RE ENTITLED TO!

 

[Apple Jack]

UPDATE:

Current Top 3 choices for the time period where America was "great", as far as I can tell:

3. The 80's

2. Sometime before hippies or some other counterculture movement where we had family values and kids were respectful and we had dinner as families and don't get me started on the wussification of America.

1. Great can't be narrowed down to a specific time period, and there are varying degrees of greatness. The current time period is the greatest ever, but still has a ton of flaws, and this will likely always be the case. Anybody who longs for days when the country was certifiably "great" are remembering an idyllic time period that never really existed. So, basically, the whole idea of "taking our country back" or "returning the US to greatness" is pretty simplistic if not outright stupid.

1a) When some finally realized Let it to Beaver was a work of fiction and that nobody actually lived like that. Ward, in reality, was a closeted homosexual with a heavy drinking problem, Beav a pyromaniac clepto who would go on to set the neighbors dog on fire, June a clinically depressed suicidal housewife who hated her life and was boning the milkman because Ward was a vicious, physically abusive drunk and could never get it up, and Wally, well Wally was the only sane one, but Eddie turned him on to weed, speed and Keroac and they end up getting the f out of that hell hole town and jumped freight trains to San Francisco, took up playing music on the street in North Beach, discovering acid and joining the Merry Pranksters.

 

[TPW]

UPDATE:

Current Top 3 choices for the time period where America was "great", as far as I can tell:

3. The 80's

2. Sometime before hippies or some other counterculture movement where we had family values and kids were respectful and we had dinner as families and don't get me started on the wussification of America.

1. Great can't be narrowed down to a specific time period, and there are varying degrees of greatness. The current time period is the greatest ever, but still has a ton of flaws, and this will likely always be the case. Anybody who longs for days when the country was certifiably "great" are remembering an idyllic time period that never really existed. So, basically, the whole idea of "taking our country back" or "returning the US to greatness" is pretty simplistic if not outright stupid.

1a) When some finally realized Let it to Beaver was a work of fiction and that nobody actually lived like that. Ward, in reality, was a closeted homosexual with a heavy drinking problem, Beav a pyromaniac clepto who would go on to set the neighbors dog on fire, June a clinically depressed suicidal housewife who hated her life and was boning the milkman because Ward was a vicious, physically abusive drunk and could never get it up, and Wally, well Wally was the only sane one, but Eddie turned him on to weed, speed and Keroac and they end up getting the f out of that hell hole town and jumped freight trains to San Francisco, took up playing music on the street in North Beach, discovering acid and joining the Merry Pranksters.

That may describe your family and even a majority of families in America today but never mine. It was very much like Leave It to Beaver. There's no such thing as perfection but I think a big part of the problem is that far too many people these days accept such levels of dysfunctional behavior as normal.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

When the "participation trophy" came into fashion.

 

[Plorfu]

That may describe your family and even a majority of families in America today but never mine. It was very much like Leave It to Beaver.

Leave it to Beaver took place in a bunker, with Ward sweatily holding onto his copy of the Doomsday Gazette, eyes wild as he barked at Wally to check the MRE supply?

 

[Apple Jack]

 

[B-Deep]

This is simple:

America was great before the other side of the aisle ruined it

America will be great again when we stop letting the other side ruin it.

 

[Quez]

America was great following WW2 because the labor shortage created plenty of work for everyone. You could get a decent job based on work ethic alone. Now, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper & still not be guaranteed a well paying job.

 

[roadkill1292]

UPDATE:

Current Top 3 choices for the time period where America was "great", as far as I can tell:

3. The 80's

2. Sometime before hippies or some other counterculture movement where we had family values and kids were respectful and we had dinner as families and don't get me started on the wussification of America.

1. Great can't be narrowed down to a specific time period, and there are varying degrees of greatness. The current time period is the greatest ever, but still has a ton of flaws, and this will likely always be the case. Anybody who longs for days when the country was certifiably "great" are remembering an idyllic time period that never really existed. So, basically, the whole idea of "taking our country back" or "returning the US to greatness" is pretty simplistic if not outright stupid.

1a) When some finally realized Let it to Beaver was a work of fiction and that nobody actually lived like that. Ward, in reality, was a closeted homosexual with a heavy drinking problem, Beav a pyromaniac clepto who would go on to set the neighbors dog on fire, June a clinically depressed suicidal housewife who hated her life and was boning the milkman because Ward was a vicious, physically abusive drunk and could never get it up, and Wally, well Wally was the only sane one, but Eddie turned him on to weed, speed and Keroac and they end up getting the f out of that hell hole town and jumped freight trains to San Francisco, took up playing music on the street in North Beach, discovering acid and joining the Merry Pranksters.

That may describe your family and even a majority of families in America today but never mine. It was very much like Leave It to Beaver. There's no such thing as perfection but I think a big part of the problem is that far too many people these days accept such levels of dysfunctional behavior as normal.

It really started going downhill in the sixties when kids started ridiculing traditional American values, real or imagined.

 

[FlapJacks]

America has always had great ideals and aspirations. The country has, many times, failed to live up to those ideals, but does manage to self-correct to get it right (er/ish). I do believe that we are in an era of unprecedented greed for money, power, and self-aggrandizement. I believe we have lost our way a bit as many institutions that used to be above the fray have been tainted by politicization and corruption. I'm not sure how we break that cycle.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Always great, and beats the alternative IMO. (Monaco millionaire lifestyle aside).

 

[jwb]

America was great following WW2 because the labor shortage created plenty of work for everyone. You could get a decent job based on work ethic alone. Now, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper & still not be guaranteed a well paying job.

Not only a labor shortage, but we were generally the only industrialized country that wasn't in rubble, either. We could pay "house buying wages" for relatively simple factory work. We had a great run for about 30 years, when middle class life was the norm, and it was a nice life (economically speaking).

But that was all an anomaly - lightning in a bottle. It won't happen again. Paying house buying wages for simple work doesn't happen anymore. Lifetime jobs are gone. Pensions have proven to be unsustainable for companies (it's largely what killed the auto industry)

But oh, to be a middle class white guy in 1950-1980... you had it good.

 

[Thunderlips]

When the "participation trophy" came into fashion.

I can agree with this.

 

[FlapJacks]

America was great following WW2 because the labor shortage created plenty of work for everyone. You could get a decent job based on work ethic alone. Now, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper & still not be guaranteed a well paying job.

Not only a labor shortage, but we were generally the only industrialized country that wasn't in rubble, either. We could pay "house buying wages" for relatively simple factory work. We had a great run for about 30 years, when middle class life was the norm, and it was a nice life (economically speaking).

But that was all an anomaly - lightning in a bottle. It won't happen again. Paying house buying wages for simple work doesn't happen anymore. Lifetime jobs are gone. Pensions have proven to be unsustainable for companies (it's largely what killed the auto industry)

But oh, to be a middle class white guy in 1950-1980... you had it good.

the cost for materials for house building has dropped

simple factory work is no longer simple factory work

employment ratios are low

 

[jonessed]

The Baby Boomer generation sucks.

 

[bear]

I am of the firm belief that we are still, overall, the best country on earth. I say this because I believe there is more opportunity today for us to create the lives we want than ever before. Imo, the problem that always seems to be mentioned is the lack of jobs. But, the question I would ask is so ####### what? Again, imo, what people need to focus on is developing skills that are in demand and then offer those skills on the open market. People without skills that anyone has a need for are in trouble. It has been that way since the beginning of time though. But, for many of us, if we want to break out of this job paradigm crap, we can design our lives better than ever before. The key, as it has always been, is to have or attain skills that the world needs and values. But, with these skills we need to think of ourselves as individual businesses rather than employees and the U.S is still the best market in the world for this approach to earning money.

To me, this requires that we untangle the job/health insurance connection. This, of course, requires that we have universal health care. This frees people to pursue their best options without putting themselves and their families at risk of financial ruin due to health issues. We have sort of started this process but we need to get on down this road and get it done. Overall, people need to take a step back and decide how they want to live and build their income producing activities around that life. Here is where I want to be to do that and where I believe the best chance of being successful is.

 

[DocHolliday]

America was great following WW2 because the labor shortage created plenty of work for everyone. You could get a decent job based on work ethic alone. Now, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper & still not be guaranteed a well paying job.

Not only a labor shortage, but we were generally the only industrialized country that wasn't in rubble, either. We could pay "house buying wages" for relatively simple factory work. We had a great run for about 30 years, when middle class life was the norm, and it was a nice life (economically speaking).

But that was all an anomaly - lightning in a bottle. It won't happen again. Paying house buying wages for simple work doesn't happen anymore. Lifetime jobs are gone. Pensions have proven to be unsustainable for companies (it's largely what killed the auto industry)

But oh, to be a middle class white guy in 1950-1980... you had it good.

the cost for materials for house building has dropped

simple factory work is no longer simple factory work

employment ratios are low

Why is simple factory work no longer simple factory work? Do you mean that it is gone overseas?

 

[Todem]

I think I'm a bit of a socialist.

I don't see anything wrong with nationalized healthcare.

I think college students should get food stamps.

People who make billions should pay 70% taxes.

I don't think secondary education should be class based.

I think American culture is very greedy and it hurts us more than we realize. Nothing wrong with the government helping out people who aren't super poor.

No.....you are a socialist.

Just leave.

 

[Sabertooth]

As a white male, I'd say probably 1899-1912.

 

[spreagle]

Whenever freedom was redefined in most peoples minds as meaning more, not less, Government control, i.e. Nancy Pelosi proudly proclaiming Obamacare promotes freedom.

 

[roadkill1292]

I am of the firm belief that we are still, overall, the best country on earth. I say this because I believe there is more opportunity today for us to create the lives we want than ever before. Imo, the problem that always seems to be mentioned is the lack of jobs. But, the question I would ask is so ####### what? Again, imo, what people need to focus on is developing skills that are in demand and then offer those skills on the open market. People without skills that anyone has a need for are in trouble. It has been that way since the beginning of time though. But, for many of us, if we want to break out of this job paradigm crap, we can design our lives better than ever before. The key, as it has always been, is to have or attain skills that the world needs and values. But, with these skills we need to think of ourselves as individual businesses rather than employees and the U.S is still the best market in the world for this approach to earning money.

To me, this requires that we untangle the job/health insurance connection. This, of course, requires that we have universal health care. This frees people to pursue their best options without putting themselves and their families at risk of financial ruin due to health issues. We have sort of started this process but we need to get on down this road and get it done. Overall, people need to take a step back and decide how they want to live and build their income producing activities around that life. Here is where I want to be to do that and where I believe the best chance of being successful is.

UHC would be pretty helpful to entrepreneurship. Which is why I don't think employers are getting behind it, even if it cuts immediate costs for them.

 

[ghostguy123]

A guy could be a milkman in the 1950's and support a family. That is not the case now.

A guy could die of 1000 different things in the 1950s that are treated outpatient today.

A guy could rape 100 women and never because because there was no DNA testing. Unless that's ur thing I suppose.

There were no good video games.

TV sucked.

And the list goes on of the million things that are better now.

Yes, a milkman will not support a family these days. Then again, I would rather get my milk at the store anyway. Fresher, and several different choices. Another thing better today than in the 1950s.

However, you CAN have a mediocre job and live like it is still the 50s (as someone mentioned) and support your family just fine. Get rid of the cell phones, cable, eating out, central air, and many of the other conveniences the 1950s didn't have, and you will make it just fine in a nice tiny apartment or house like people used to.

I mentioned before, it just depends on how you define "greatest". Some things are better, some are worse, but it is still pretty great.

The guy makes a comment about the income of a milkman and you make a reference about him being ok with rape?GTFO

I am amazed thats what you pulled from that. Maybe this country does suck after all.

Let that be a lesson that no matter how good the content might be, adding something extremely stupid will negate the point you're trying to make. Maybe you weren't implying a guy getting away with 100 rapes is his thing and just wrote it REALLY bad.

Maybe it's YOUR thing. Get over it.

Participation trophy invention just might win this. Good call whoever said that.

Reality TV a close second??

 

[jonessed]

America was great following WW2 because the labor shortage created plenty of work for everyone. You could get a decent job based on work ethic alone. Now, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper & still not be guaranteed a well paying job.

Not only a labor shortage, but we were generally the only industrialized country that wasn't in rubble, either. We could pay "house buying wages" for relatively simple factory work. We had a great run for about 30 years, when middle class life was the norm, and it was a nice life (economically speaking).

But that was all an anomaly - lightning in a bottle. It won't happen again. Paying house buying wages for simple work doesn't happen anymore. Lifetime jobs are gone. Pensions have proven to be unsustainable for companies (it's largely what killed the auto industry)

But oh, to be a middle class white guy in 1950-1980... you had it good.

the cost for materials for house building has droppedsimple factory work is no longer simple factory work

employment ratios are low

Why is simple factory work no longer simple factory work? Do you mean that it is gone overseas?

Factory work is actually fairly skilled labor now. Fewer jobs, but they are still good jobs if you have the skills to fill them. There's actually a shortage right now.