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Where do you rank Mark Sanchez vs QB for all other NFL teams? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Righetti
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Tau837
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
Career regular season winning percentages of the QBs mentioned here:Brady 111-32 (.776)Roethlisberger 69-29 (.704)Rivers 55-25 (.688)Manning 141-67 (.678)Sanchez 19-12 (.613)Brees 79-58 (.577)Rodgers 27-20 (.574)Freeman 13-12 (.520)Career postseason winning percentages of the QBs mentioned here:Roethlisberger 9-2 (.818)Sanchez 4-1 (.800)Brady 14-5 (.737)Rodgers 2-1 (.667)Brees 4-3 (.571)Manning 9-10 (.474)Rivers 3-4 (.429)Freeman 0-0 (.000)As much as I hate to say it, I agree that Rivers hasn't done enough to be characterized as an elite winner at this point. He is an elite QB in terms of the quality of his QB play IMO, and he has led plenty of 4th quarter comebacks, etc. But his teams have not had enough postseason success to date, and a lot of that falls on him. I expect him to breakthrough in the near future with a big postseason.
Al Toon's Mole
Footballguy
So I'm confused....do you want a QB who wins games, makes the playoffs and seems to get better each year?
Or do you want the QB who puts up nothing but stats, "maybe" makes the playoffs and loses in the first round??
Maybe it's the old Herman Edwards in me...but you play to win the game.
And yes....Sanchez has been wild with throws at times, and is still learning more about himself and the offense with each passing week....
But I'll take him over a Rivers (what has this guy really done anyways, but run around and yell at the Broncos and put up stats ala Dan Marino), Flacco (who to me is highly overrated), Ryan (not so ice under pressure as people want you to believe), and Romo (who well, is Tony freakin' Romo).
Sanchez may not look sexy on the stat pages, but he has the backing of his WHOLE team, coaches and continues to show growth at every level.
Yeah, I'll take the guy anyday and say he belongs in the top 1/3 og the leagues QB's
Or do you want the QB who puts up nothing but stats, "maybe" makes the playoffs and loses in the first round??
Maybe it's the old Herman Edwards in me...but you play to win the game.
And yes....Sanchez has been wild with throws at times, and is still learning more about himself and the offense with each passing week....
But I'll take him over a Rivers (what has this guy really done anyways, but run around and yell at the Broncos and put up stats ala Dan Marino), Flacco (who to me is highly overrated), Ryan (not so ice under pressure as people want you to believe), and Romo (who well, is Tony freakin' Romo).
Sanchez may not look sexy on the stat pages, but he has the backing of his WHOLE team, coaches and continues to show growth at every level.
Yeah, I'll take the guy anyday and say he belongs in the top 1/3 og the leagues QB's
Chuck the Roc
Footballguy
OP,
The way you phrase your question is weird. you seem to be arguing that sanchez is good because his "situation" is better than some other peoples. This is stupid. He has had success in his first 2 years because of the team he is surrounded by and all of the sudden he is a better qb than romo, cutler, cassel, etc etc. Youre absolutely right his numbers are pedestrian, if you think ryan fitzpatrick couldnt get a playoff win or 2 with that squad youre nuts.
Not saying he doesnt have potential or that he wont be very good, but to put him above 4/5 of the league is silly. Your friend is right, he is a bottom 1/3 qb skill wise. Put this kid in carolina, Cleveland, St Louis, Oakland etc etc and he wouldve not yet been to the playoffs, and probably not had winning season.
The way you phrase your question is weird. you seem to be arguing that sanchez is good because his "situation" is better than some other peoples. This is stupid. He has had success in his first 2 years because of the team he is surrounded by and all of the sudden he is a better qb than romo, cutler, cassel, etc etc. Youre absolutely right his numbers are pedestrian, if you think ryan fitzpatrick couldnt get a playoff win or 2 with that squad youre nuts.
Not saying he doesnt have potential or that he wont be very good, but to put him above 4/5 of the league is silly. Your friend is right, he is a bottom 1/3 qb skill wise. Put this kid in carolina, Cleveland, St Louis, Oakland etc etc and he wouldve not yet been to the playoffs, and probably not had winning season.
Al Toon's Mole
Footballguy
Worst playoff QB performance was Big Ben vs. Seattle...and he gets credit for that. So how does this apply exactly?
del mar
Footballguy
Mark Sanchez made a great throw to Holmes for that TD. But that does not make him anywhere close to being a great QB. Every man playing QB at the professional level (and you can include minor league pro football as well) can make that throw occassionally. The only guys who can't ever do it are college QBs who don't even make it to a pro training camp. The simple fact is that thus far in his career Sanchez hasn't made enough accurate throws to be considered as anything more than a young man who is fortunate enough to be playing with a group of much more talented teammates.
Sanchez has improved from year to year. In 2009 he only threw for 2444 yards with 12 TDs and 20 Ints. His completion rate was 53.8%. In 2010 his attempts increased by 144 and he threw for 3291 yards. His TDs increased to 17 while he cut his Ints to 13. However his completion average only improved to 54.8% while his yards per attempt actually fell from 6.7 to 6.5. How did he stack up against others? He was 9th in the league in passing attempts, 16th in passing yards, 19th in TD passes, and 26th in yards per attempt (mimimun 300 attempts). Does that give hope for the future?
If you want to think in terms of Sanchez as having the potential to become elite consider this: Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, and Rodgers have NEVER in all their years as starters for their teams EVER had a year with a completion average as poor as 54.8%. As a matter of fact in a collective 38 seasons as starters that group has only one season with a completion average of less that 60.0% (Brees in '03 was 57.6%.)
Before you call me unreasonable for comparing Sanchez to those five great QBs, let me make a more reasonable comparison. In his rookie year Sanchez had 196 completions in 364 attempts (a 53.8% rate) for 2444 yards. He had 12 TDs and 20 Ints. I will compare him to a player with these rookie stats: 214 completions in 377 attempts (a 56.8% rate) for 2547 yards with 11 TDs and 12 Ints. I'd call those fairly similar numbers. That player is Matt Leinart. Sanchez does show greater maturity and work ethic which is probably the only reason for hope.
As for leading his team to wins in the playoffs (and potentially to a Super Bowl win) this hardly makes him unique. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl in a year when his completion average was only 59.3%. Mark Rypien won a Super Bowl when his completion average was only 59.1%. Jim McMahon won a Super Bowl when his completion average was 56.9%. None of these guys were near the top dozen in the league in those years. You can be a caretaker QB and win big games if your defense is great.
Sanchez will probably have a nice career, win a lot of games, and make a lot of money, but he won't be in the top 12 on my draft list for next year.
Sanchez has improved from year to year. In 2009 he only threw for 2444 yards with 12 TDs and 20 Ints. His completion rate was 53.8%. In 2010 his attempts increased by 144 and he threw for 3291 yards. His TDs increased to 17 while he cut his Ints to 13. However his completion average only improved to 54.8% while his yards per attempt actually fell from 6.7 to 6.5. How did he stack up against others? He was 9th in the league in passing attempts, 16th in passing yards, 19th in TD passes, and 26th in yards per attempt (mimimun 300 attempts). Does that give hope for the future?
If you want to think in terms of Sanchez as having the potential to become elite consider this: Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, and Rodgers have NEVER in all their years as starters for their teams EVER had a year with a completion average as poor as 54.8%. As a matter of fact in a collective 38 seasons as starters that group has only one season with a completion average of less that 60.0% (Brees in '03 was 57.6%.)
Before you call me unreasonable for comparing Sanchez to those five great QBs, let me make a more reasonable comparison. In his rookie year Sanchez had 196 completions in 364 attempts (a 53.8% rate) for 2444 yards. He had 12 TDs and 20 Ints. I will compare him to a player with these rookie stats: 214 completions in 377 attempts (a 56.8% rate) for 2547 yards with 11 TDs and 12 Ints. I'd call those fairly similar numbers. That player is Matt Leinart. Sanchez does show greater maturity and work ethic which is probably the only reason for hope.
As for leading his team to wins in the playoffs (and potentially to a Super Bowl win) this hardly makes him unique. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl in a year when his completion average was only 59.3%. Mark Rypien won a Super Bowl when his completion average was only 59.1%. Jim McMahon won a Super Bowl when his completion average was 56.9%. None of these guys were near the top dozen in the league in those years. You can be a caretaker QB and win big games if your defense is great.
Sanchez will probably have a nice career, win a lot of games, and make a lot of money, but he won't be in the top 12 on my draft list for next year.
Yenrub
Footballguy
It applies because the counter argument to Sanchez not being ranked in the top 20 by some in this thread is …. “look at his playoff wins” Exactly.
Al Toon's Mole
Footballguy
Fair enough. Lets look at the most recent game...3 TD's on the road, division rival, against a "young ballhawking secondary" (or so I have heard the Pats D be touted as).So while the attempts/completion/yards numbers might not be "sexy", I'll take it over a 32/45 360 yds 1 TD and still end up with a "L".The argument here isnt "based on metrics where would you rank Sanchez?". The kid has the ability to gather his team around him, be effective when it matters most and for the 2nd consecutive year have his team at the AFC Championship.Give me the guy who wins when it matters, and not just throw up stats for every fantasy nerd to disect and determine if he is a 2nd round talent or a STEAL at the 3rd
Give me Rex Grossman. He went to the Superbowl you know.
njherdfan
Footballguy
So playoff results have no bearing on where a QB ranks?
Al Toon's Mole
Footballguy
MikeShanahan feels the same way, electing to start him over Donovan by years end. If a QB can get a team through the playoffs, and to the SuperBowl....what fan or coach wouldnt take it?Take your Romo's and Rivers, I'll stick with Sanchez.
saintsfan
Footballguy
It's too early to make ANY call on Sanchez. He's probably bottom half to bottom 3rd right now, but it's only his second year. Any number of QBs could have gotten to the AFC Championship twice with that team, so the whole "he's a winner" thing is also a bit overblown.
If they get beat this weekend, his playoff record still looks good, but hasn't really won anything yet, so it's a bit overblown. If they win the Super Bowl this year, maybe an argument can be made, but two consecutive AFC Championship losses looks like something McNabb was critisized for.
If they get beat this weekend, his playoff record still looks good, but hasn't really won anything yet, so it's a bit overblown. If they win the Super Bowl this year, maybe an argument can be made, but two consecutive AFC Championship losses looks like something McNabb was critisized for.
Andrew Garda
Moderator
NopeFor this season alone, I looked at the Colts and Pats. For giggles I included Brad Smith's gadget plays and Sanchez' own running.
Vs the Colts: Total ground yards - 120
vs the Pats: total ground yards - 171
If you go with just pure RBs, the Jets only went for 152 yards on the ground against the Pats. and that was with protecting the lead.
And of course, he led he team down the field in 50 seconds against the Colts, hitting all three of his passes to get the team into position to win. I'm sure you don't care but that's pretty significant - to depend on your QB and him deliver.
Sanchez is inaccurate and wild at times, raw and who knows if he will correct any of that in years to come. But he's not just along for the ride this year and has made key contributions when the team needed him to. He won't win them all, he's not the GOAT and he has a long way to go to be considered the best, if he ever can be.
But dismissing his accomplishments without actually looking is foolish.
I would also say that NEITHER win this post season has had the Jets ground game DOMINANT. Good, yes. Great? Dominant? No.
njherdfan
Footballguy
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Right, he's only in his 2nd year. Back in the day, you didn't even start playing until your 2nd year. Sanchez has played remarkabely well in the playoffs and as long as you're getting to the playoffs, isn't that all that matters?It's a tough question in answering the question how good he is and who would you take over him. He's won more games in the playoffs than Tony Romo, so why shouldn't I take him, especially if you consider Sanchez's age and Romo's.As far as Stafford, he's got a lot of work to do to catch Sanchez. How many years will it take for the Lions to win as many games as Sanchez has won right now?
I don't know why you'd take out the gadget plays - they're another part of the offense which the defense has to be aware of and take the ball out of the QBs hands.
vs the Colts:
Tomlinson had 82, Greene 70, Smith 11 and Sanchez 6. That's more than 120. Not quite 170, but 169 is pretty close.
Vs the Pats it's actually 120 on the ground and I've already said this was Sanchez' sole impressive postseason performance. Still, the credit for that goes largely to the Jets D who shut down the Pats offense all game, the garbage time score made the game appear closer than it was. That was an offense which scored 27 ppg during the regular season.
Sanchez has shown the ability to lead comebacks and make big time throws, but he's one of the worst starters on the Jets and amongst the bottom half of QBs in the league at this stage of his career.
Rovers
Footballguy
Young QB's come into different situations. That dictates what they are asked to do, and what they aren't.
Both Flacco and Ryan had similar situations, but neither has made it to a conference championship game. Sanchez has, under similar team circumstances. Winning is more important than stats, so he has to get my nod over both. He has proven he can bring a team back when it's down late in games. His numbers improve in playoff games vs his regular season numbers, indicating he has that inate ability to raise his game when he has to, the Iny game being the exception until very late in that game. In terms of experience, he is still far behind both Flacco and Ryan, in college experience and NFL experience. He also has some escapabilty. He has both the leadership skills (something I think Manning the lesser lacks) and the desire and work habits.
I don't see him in the bottom third. He's solidly in the middle third. I see him with upside to be top ten. Freeman looks to have a higher ceiling. Bradford as well. Stafford has the tools, but not the durability.
As a Jets fan, I'm satisfied going forward with Sanchez. I think he will be in the top third for his career. He could surpise and be better than that.
Both Flacco and Ryan had similar situations, but neither has made it to a conference championship game. Sanchez has, under similar team circumstances. Winning is more important than stats, so he has to get my nod over both. He has proven he can bring a team back when it's down late in games. His numbers improve in playoff games vs his regular season numbers, indicating he has that inate ability to raise his game when he has to, the Iny game being the exception until very late in that game. In terms of experience, he is still far behind both Flacco and Ryan, in college experience and NFL experience. He also has some escapabilty. He has both the leadership skills (something I think Manning the lesser lacks) and the desire and work habits.
I don't see him in the bottom third. He's solidly in the middle third. I see him with upside to be top ten. Freeman looks to have a higher ceiling. Bradford as well. Stafford has the tools, but not the durability.
As a Jets fan, I'm satisfied going forward with Sanchez. I think he will be in the top third for his career. He could surpise and be better than that.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I'm not sure I would categorize all three QBs as having had similar circumstances. Looking at regular season only,The Ravens won 5 games the season before Flacco arrived. Since then they've won 11, 9, and 12 games.The Falcons won 4 games the season before Ryan arrived. Since then they've won 11, 9, and 13 games.The Jets won 9 games the season before Sanchez arrived. Sine then, they won 9 and 11 games.It looks to me like the other QBs helped net more wins than Sanchez did. Obviously the Jets have had more post season success. And certainly Sanchez still has plenty of time to improve his game. But a case could be made that he inherited a better team to begin with.
Reaper
Footballguy
The year before Sanchez, the Jets had a HOF QB. Year before that they won FOUR games.Atlanta had the Vick fiasco.The Ravens had injury issues and have had IMO a better run game and a better defense than the Jets.Rovers and I both winced when Sanchez was drafted and both of us have seen every pass the guy has made.. IMO, he's being under rated... He's a lot more than just a caretaker - He's making HUGE plays - Game winning plays. You didn't see Trent Dilfer lead his team to all those 4th qtr comebacks.Yeah, he's inconsistent after his 3rd year of playing QB College and pro combined but, DAMN he throws some insanely great balls as well to win games.And I think going into INDY, SD and NE in the playoffs and not wilting is being way under rated...No he won't be a Fantasy stud but, I think there's a ton more to grow in a kid who works as hard as he does.....THREE YEARS as a QB - to me is just crazy. A poster above tried to compare Sanchez rep with Mcnabb - If you look back Mcnabb had EIGHT years under his belt by then.I'm fine with him being ranked around 15-16. I think that also shows there are a lot of good QB's in the league right now.
renesauz
IBL Representative
IN general, we give QB's far too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses.
Sanchez is NOT a better QB than Flacco or Ryan. I'd put him around #20 right now. Honestly, I don't see him climbing that list all that far as his accuracy and mobility are only average. On the plus side, he seems bright, with a decent work ethic and leadership skills. He'll make a decent pro for years, but nothing special.
Sanchez is NOT a better QB than Flacco or Ryan. I'd put him around #20 right now. Honestly, I don't see him climbing that list all that far as his accuracy and mobility are only average. On the plus side, he seems bright, with a decent work ethic and leadership skills. He'll make a decent pro for years, but nothing special.
Andrew Garda
Moderator
Truman-
you're right I added wrong on the Colts. Not sure why I did that but it was much closer.
Still neither was - IMO - a dominant performance on the ground. We can debate what constitute that but let's set that aside for a moment.
What about my other statement? Can you explain how he won the Colts game with that drive? The defense maybe?
Personally, I think sanchez is floating around the halfway mark for starters right now. Given that a third of the league may be changing QBs, that's not a ringing endorsement. And maybe that's all you're saying.
As for one of the worst starters on the Jets.... LMAO. That's just funny. If the guy YOU say can lead comebacks is among the worst on that team... well Super Bowl here we come.
Of course this is a team predicated on great defense - their QB is a second year starter with one year of college experience. You put your QB in the best possible situation to win. He's passed more this year and they've run less. As he grows as a QB (assuming he does) he'll take on more.
He's still a year or two behind where other QBs coming out are. Most players taken where he was have far more experience in college. How many years did Flacco or Ryan or Bradford have coming into the league? How much better prepared were they?
Speaking of which - where do you put Flacco and Ryan? Pretty good defenses there, some questionable decisions by both (Flacco especially) very good run games.... bottom half or top half? Why?
The fact is, Sanchez was a risky pick in that he has/had so little experience. But while he has many issues to overcome, I'd say so far he's been coming along pretty well.
you're right I added wrong on the Colts. Not sure why I did that but it was much closer.
Still neither was - IMO - a dominant performance on the ground. We can debate what constitute that but let's set that aside for a moment.
What about my other statement? Can you explain how he won the Colts game with that drive? The defense maybe?
Personally, I think sanchez is floating around the halfway mark for starters right now. Given that a third of the league may be changing QBs, that's not a ringing endorsement. And maybe that's all you're saying.
As for one of the worst starters on the Jets.... LMAO. That's just funny. If the guy YOU say can lead comebacks is among the worst on that team... well Super Bowl here we come.
Of course this is a team predicated on great defense - their QB is a second year starter with one year of college experience. You put your QB in the best possible situation to win. He's passed more this year and they've run less. As he grows as a QB (assuming he does) he'll take on more.
He's still a year or two behind where other QBs coming out are. Most players taken where he was have far more experience in college. How many years did Flacco or Ryan or Bradford have coming into the league? How much better prepared were they?
Speaking of which - where do you put Flacco and Ryan? Pretty good defenses there, some questionable decisions by both (Flacco especially) very good run games.... bottom half or top half? Why?
The fact is, Sanchez was a risky pick in that he has/had so little experience. But while he has many issues to overcome, I'd say so far he's been coming along pretty well.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
Not to be too obvious, but NEXT year will be his make/break. People complaining about his comp % and YPA need to look at the first couple of years for HOF QBs like Manning and Elway (or even the current studs like Brees, etc). It takes a little while sometimes (in fact, most of the time). In the mean-time, you look for things like leadership, decision-making, and the basic ability to make the necessary throws etc.
Everbody's slobbering all over Bradford, and his YPA is 6.0. Sure his Cmp% is higher, but YPA a more telling statistic? Why isn't that 6.0 getting hammered while Sanchez' 6.5 is?
There are two very different questions here though. Who would you want on this team in the playoffs right now? Who would you want on your team going forward? Those lists might look a little different.
Everbody's slobbering all over Bradford, and his YPA is 6.0. Sure his Cmp% is higher, but YPA a more telling statistic? Why isn't that 6.0 getting hammered while Sanchez' 6.5 is?
There are two very different questions here though. Who would you want on this team in the playoffs right now? Who would you want on your team going forward? Those lists might look a little different.
Andrew Garda
Moderator
renesauz
IBL Representative
Because Sanchez hasd been blessed with a better line, MUCH better receivers, a terrific defense, and a strong running game. Because at times Bradford carried his team while at times Sanchez held his own team back, and never 'carried" them. Bradford has a MUCH higher ceiling (as well as a slightly lower floor).That said, I do agree that next year is his make/break. I don't think Sanchez "sucks". I think he's a viable NFL QB who should improve some more, but I don't think he's destined for more than mediocrity as an NFL passer. IE: Currently in the 18-20 area, with a ceiling (I expect he'll reach) in the 12-14 area.
ETA: Jets fans should be happy. NY is a tough place to play and Sanchez has the emotional capability to both handle it gracefully and still reach his potential. I (and others) may question his ceiling, but he's a guy a team can build around and win with.
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Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
I'm not slamming Bradford, I'm just saying that looking at Sanchez' "accuracy metrics" in a vacuum isn't all that telling. Yes, he has been inconsistent, but that comes with being a 2nd year QB who started out of the gate and didn't have much college experience. Then consider that his rookie "mentor" was Kellen Clemens. The guy is learning on the job for sure.Maybe he'll continue to be inconsistent and/or inaccurate. I just don't think we know that yet, and some folks are pointing to that area as limiting his "upside" which I don't think is fair.
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I have to thoroughly disagree with your assertion that wins is the most important way to rank a QB. So that means that when Orton was 10-5 in his rookie season with the Bears he was a top 8 QB? That being said Sanchez has lead his team to come from behind victories and looks like he gets better as the game goes on. I would definitely put him in the top 1/2 at this point in his career but truly believe that most of the QBs in Dopes tier 2 rankings would be a better fit for the Jets and they would be Super Bowl favorites if they had them instead of Sanchez. In the games I have watched Sanchez is not very accurate at the beginning of games. If he were accurate and gave that defense a lead in most games than I think the Jets would be unstoppable because of their secondary. I think Sanchez is getting better and might eventually get to that point so I wouldn't trade him for some of those QBs but I think they are better at this point in their careers.Wait so QB get ranked on yards and fantasy stats? The NFL cares about QB that manage the game for their team in order to come out with W's and IMO that puts Sanchez in the top 1/4 of the league.
JMJ
Footballguy
Sanchez is 24 years old, but he gets it, has a ton of talent, and even more guts. He'll be a fine starting QB in this league for a long time.
The one thing I continuously read about him that is totally inaccurate is that he has limited arm strength. The guy has a very fast release and far more than enough arm strength to make every throw. Arm strength isn't about being able to step into a throw and heave a ball 55 yards in the air, on a rainbow, on a fade route (which he obviously can do - all NFL QBs can). Arm strength is all about being able to throw a 20 yard out route toward the sideline with zip so it doesn't have time to get intercepted. He can do that with no problem.
There are lots of things to question about Sanchez (accuracy at times, body language at times, consistency, etc.), but arm strength, guts, and leadership are definitely not on the list.
The one thing I continuously read about him that is totally inaccurate is that he has limited arm strength. The guy has a very fast release and far more than enough arm strength to make every throw. Arm strength isn't about being able to step into a throw and heave a ball 55 yards in the air, on a rainbow, on a fade route (which he obviously can do - all NFL QBs can). Arm strength is all about being able to throw a 20 yard out route toward the sideline with zip so it doesn't have time to get intercepted. He can do that with no problem.
There are lots of things to question about Sanchez (accuracy at times, body language at times, consistency, etc.), but arm strength, guts, and leadership are definitely not on the list.
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Phlash
Footballguy
He's terrible and has no accuracy. The Patriots had zero pressure on him the whole game and he only had 3 or 4 really nice passes that whole game (the long TD was nice), but on some passes like the LT touchdown, it was the receiver making a serious adjustment because the ball was thrown into an awkward spot. Just bad.
JMJ
Footballguy
Let me guess ... Dolphins fan?
Team Legacy
Footballguy
Surprised the earlier poster had no sniff of Roth.
The Top 20 list goes like this:
1a, 1b & 1c (in no particular order) Brady, Manning & Brees
4. Rodgers
5. Rivers
6. Roethlisberger
7. Vick
8-12 in no particular order (Schaub, Ryan, Eli, Flacco, Cutler)
then
13 Sam Bradford (he showed he's a cut above the guys below in year one.
then
14-20 in no particular order (Freeman, Garrard, Orton, Sanchez, Stafford, Cassell, McNabb)
then
everybody else
If we're talking about pure QB skills, Sanchez is in the cut above the scrubs at this point (and I'm a Sanchez fan). He MUST work on accuracy.
However, I for one do NOT hate the "winner" talk. It's a REAL thing. Guys perform under pressure or they fold. Confidence and leadership is not something that always shows up on the stat sheet. Does he make the plays when it counts? They said from the beginning those close to him and the USC lockeroom said he had "it" when he walked in the room, the way he hangs out with the guys and the human dynamic behind the game.
If he can develop passer accuracy, he could be very good. I don't think anyone questions his work ethic or his decision making, he just has some mechanics to improve on. I see alot of success for this kid down the road.
The Top 20 list goes like this:
1a, 1b & 1c (in no particular order) Brady, Manning & Brees
4. Rodgers
5. Rivers
6. Roethlisberger
7. Vick
8-12 in no particular order (Schaub, Ryan, Eli, Flacco, Cutler)
then
13 Sam Bradford (he showed he's a cut above the guys below in year one.
then
14-20 in no particular order (Freeman, Garrard, Orton, Sanchez, Stafford, Cassell, McNabb)
then
everybody else
If we're talking about pure QB skills, Sanchez is in the cut above the scrubs at this point (and I'm a Sanchez fan). He MUST work on accuracy.
However, I for one do NOT hate the "winner" talk. It's a REAL thing. Guys perform under pressure or they fold. Confidence and leadership is not something that always shows up on the stat sheet. Does he make the plays when it counts? They said from the beginning those close to him and the USC lockeroom said he had "it" when he walked in the room, the way he hangs out with the guys and the human dynamic behind the game.
If he can develop passer accuracy, he could be very good. I don't think anyone questions his work ethic or his decision making, he just has some mechanics to improve on. I see alot of success for this kid down the road.
renesauz
IBL Representative
The problem with accuracy is that it isn't normally a coachable/learnable trait. By the time someone reaches the NFL, they rarely see any more significant improvement in that area. While exceptions do occur, it's generally best to assume a 2nd year QB is NOT going to greatly improve his (real-world) accuracy. Completion % and accuracy are NOT the same things. Good receivers and a good line will inflate (or deflate) those numbers. When I watch Sanchez, I see an awful lot of passes above or behind receivers, even when Sanchez has a perfect pocket and a wide open player. Those passes, inaccurate even under ideal conditions, bother me. I see accuracy as a very real limiting factor in Sanchez' case.He has other things he does well. He's a good leader. He handles the pressure well (both on and off the field). He's actually a decent decision maker (when you account for his relative inexperiance). For these reasons I think he's a decent NFL QB with a long career ahead of him, but his accuracy will prevent him from ever reaching that elite tier.Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I don't think Sanchez is that good right now -- certainly not in the same league as Romo or Rivers or a bunch of other actually good QBs -- but I do think he'll be very good one day.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I think moving forward that Sanchez could develop but the team may or may not be as good. Certainly you can say that about a lot of teams, but there are some important puzzle pieces that are aging while others might be moving on.
LT, Tony Richardson, Brandon Moore, Shaun Ellis, Kris Jenkins, Trevor Pryce, Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, Jason Taylor, and Bryan Thomas are all in their 30s. Holmes, Edwards, and Cromartie are due to be free agents.
Long story short, the roster could be a lot different in a year or two. Obviously they have an equal chance to get better or get worse, but they will have different faces in the lineup.
LT, Tony Richardson, Brandon Moore, Shaun Ellis, Kris Jenkins, Trevor Pryce, Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, Jason Taylor, and Bryan Thomas are all in their 30s. Holmes, Edwards, and Cromartie are due to be free agents.
Long story short, the roster could be a lot different in a year or two. Obviously they have an equal chance to get better or get worse, but they will have different faces in the lineup.
Andrew Garda
Moderator
Richardson and LT are already set to be replaced by Greene and Conner - whether Joe McKnight plays well and replaces LT more directly could be key but I am a firm believer you could draft another back who - while not LT - will be able to fill the role.Holmes and (probably) Edwards will be signed. Cro may be replaced or extended for a year to see if Kyle Wilson develops. I think Scott, Ellis and Pryce have some good years left. But they are aging and the others you named are aging and in the case of Jenkins, hurt often.So I think key portions of the offense will be fine or are replaceable - it's the defense which will need help. But I also think Ryan knows what he wants defensively and they should be able to reload, though how dominant they will be is a good question.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
As I said, lots of teams have to deal with player replenishment, aging, free agency, and injuries. It really is hard to predict what impact that turnover will have and where teams will suffer or excel.
Reaper
Footballguy
I think the offense is set and ready to grow with good OL depth and hopefully Holmes and Braylon back.Remember Ducasse hasn't gotten into the mix yet on the OL. I love Callahan as OL coach!!!!!!!As for the defense, IMO, Rex is just begining to build his D - He has Revis, now give him any sort of natural pass rusher.... Jenkins hasn't played much in 2 years. Taylor was an ok Hold the fort guy and yeah, they'll need to get younger in a few spots.... How about some healthy Safties?Another key contract is David Harris. Probably THE most important and above anyone on that list.I say the rest of that list is replaceable, even Ellis at this point. The great thing is that players WANT to play for Rex.... So, we'll see what that means at Contract / FA time.We should dot this for the Jets offseason thread for after the Super Bowl Win.
Andrew Garda
Moderator
My fave quote of the whole thing - but a good article thanks for sharing and I do get what he's saying.In other words: it's too early.
Andrew Garda
Moderator
And lets remember this is a team which hasn't had a full slate of draft picks yet - 3 during the Sanchez/Greene draft and four last year - and three of those 6 were in later rounds and that's mostly a place where you get players whose impact takes time.Jets need to hit on their picks no doubt whether it be two picks or 22. but they're only beginning the process of putting a younger team together. And like Reaper says - it appears there are a lot of players interested in coming to play for Ryan.Can I dream of Aso across from Revis with Cro moving to safety?
Everyone realizes that Vince Young has better career statistics in every single category than Mark Sanchez, right?
I'm not knocking Mark Sanchez, just pointing out that a similar player (high winning %, mediocre stats (though VY's are better across the board)) is universally panned on this board.
I'm not knocking Mark Sanchez, just pointing out that a similar player (high winning %, mediocre stats (though VY's are better across the board)) is universally panned on this board.
Andrew Garda
Moderator
The difference being that - by all accounts - Sanchez has incredible drive and work ethic and a much sharper intellect while Young..... doesn't.
Which only means that Sanchez has a better PR rep than VY. And that's kind of my point, that an image of Sanchez has been created that isn't really reflective of any tangible reality. While another player can't catch a break right now because his coach worked hard to create the opposite image of him. I can tell you that VY was praised for his drive and work ethic when he was at UT.
Rovers
Footballguy
One wild card in the equation is Rex Ryan. Players love being on his team. You read what Rolle and Phillips said. Scott, Leonard and Pryce followed Ryan to NY. Jason Taylor is now talking about playing another year, and it's because of Ryan. Who knows how the CBA works out, but Ryan gives the Jets a very real advantage in signing FA's. Even Cromartie said he lost his desire in SD, but has it back, and credits Ryan. Edwards and Holmes have similar things to say, that playing football is fun again. This isn't a player on the roster that doesn't want to stay. Ryan is also willing to take risks, give players second chances, like Edwards and Holmes. While fans around the league may hate Ryan, players around the league want to play on his team. Even for players, just like your average Joe, if you hate going to work, life can be pretty miserable. If you love going to work, life is pretty good. Money is important, but is it the trump card? Other than Moore and Ellis, the rest of the players you mentioned don't play big roles on this team. They are replacable. I think Holmes, Edwards and Cromartie stay. Brad Smith may be lost. Ducasse hopefully is ready to start next year. I don't think there is an equal chance to get better or worse with Ryan at the helm, I think they have significantly more than an equal chance to get better. Players talk... and they want to play for Ryan.David Yudkin said:
