Where is the “but her emails!!!!” crowd in regards to Trump destroying records? (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

If we were in a conflict, Rosie the Riveter would be Chinese.  

Hot. 

 

[James Daulton]

If we were in a conflict, Rosie the Riveter would be Chinese.  

If we stopped buying from China, their entire economy would collapse.

We on the other hand would suffer shortages and some pain, but we could re-tool.  You can't just find another buying partner to replace the US.

Mutually assured destruction that favors the US quite bigly. 

 

[Rich Conway]

If we stopped buying from China, their entire economy would collapse.

We on the other hand would suffer shortages and some pain, but we could re-tool.  You can't just find another buying partner to replace the US.

Mutually assured destruction that favors the US quite bigly. 

In theory, yes.  In practice, not so much, due to the way our public and politicians value short-term results.  That short-term pain would lead to voters pulling the lever for non-incumbents and our politicians know it.

China's ruling class can simply tell their populace to shut up and take it.  US politicians can't won't and China knows it.

 

[James Daulton]

In theory, yes.  In practice, not so much, due to the way our public and politicians value short-term results.  That short-term pain would lead to voters pulling the lever for non-incumbents and our politicians know it.

China's ruling class can simply tell their populace to shut up and take it.  US politicians can't won't and China knows it.

Perhaps.  But in a real war the short term interest of the politicians would be the survival of the US and the defeat of China.  China can very well tell their populous to shut up and like it, but when those folks can't eat it would be a different story than the US having to use 3 year old iPhones.

China and the US are tied together.  The US and Russia, not so much. 

 

[BladeRunner]

Wasn't the OP the one complaining about how "I don't know how conservatives get away with the things they say in here!!"?

And then we get this thread from him? 

Just sayin'. 

 

[The Commish]

If we stopped buying from China, their entire economy would collapse.

We on the other hand would suffer shortages and some pain, but we could re-tool.  You can't just find another buying partner to replace the US.

Mutually assured destruction that favors the US quite bigly. 

Our economy would collapse as well.  I get the theoretical concept, but in practice, the calculus is much different.  This should be rather obvious if we're paying attention to the supply chain issues we are dealing with during the pandemic.  

 

[massraider]

Look, people evolve. 

Sure a few years ago some people thought it was a crime to lose some records and emails, and would go rallies and repeat chants, but now they've come to think, nahhh. No big deal.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

They may PERCEIVE relief, and that's typically the problem.

My checkbook would love to PERCEIVE some relief from what I’m paying for heating oil and gasoline

 

[massraider]

The National Archives has retrieved boxes of presidential records from former Pres. Trump's Mar-a-Lago club that were improperly moved after he left the White House, including letters from former Pres. Obama and Kim Jong Un. @jonkarl reports. https://t.co/7Ct2JCvVZ3 https://t.co/U2RtGCXPqj

 

[The Commish]

My checkbook would love to PERCEIVE some relief from what I’m paying for heating oil and gasoline

We should probably be shooting for actual, meaningful relief, no?  It's easy to achieve what you want here.  Just change your perception.  Problem solved...which is my overall point from before.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Yeah, we are talking about different things it appears.  What I am talking about, and posted about often at the time, was the systemic problem and general gross negligence of our federal government's attention to significant cyber issues.  These servers, people using personal emails etc were all mere symptoms.  These's a bunch of discussion out there about this topic and that's what I was talking about at the time and sadly, it still holds true today.  

So you are saying that @timschochet was oh so wrong based on a side topic, a tangent where you could find quotes to support your concerns?  When did @timschochet ever venture into this side topic?    

When it comes to Hillary's handling of e-mails Tim probably cannot state too much in the way of details and what policies she skirted around and etc., but he more or less got the big picture correct.  There were simple, reasonable answers to most everything and no evidence of any grand conspiracy, no evidence of covering up wrong doing,  even giving Comey "everyone should have known better"  the benefit of doubt on the seven no significant glaringly obvious ignoring of classified information.  Tim got this right. Maybe blind luck but he got it right.  Except it wasn't blind luck it was simply a cautious approach that had faith that there is usually a simple explanation which gets skipped past because it is boring,  What really happened had some issues, but it was mostly boring. 

That, and his love of all things Hillary!

 

[James Daulton]

Our economy would collapse as well.  I get the theoretical concept, but in practice, the calculus is much different.  This should be rather obvious if we're paying attention to the supply chain issues we are dealing with during the pandemic.  

Our economy would suffer short term but not collapse.  We can rebuild our infrastructure and find new suppliers.  China could never replace the demand from the US.

We produce enough food and energy, the only thing of value we get from China are raw materials.  We can find those elsewhere.  It'd be painful but the US would survive easily.  China's population would starve. 

 

[timschochet]

So you are saying that @timschochet was oh so wrong based on a side topic, a tangent where you could find quotes to support your concerns?  When did @timschochet ever venture into this side topic?    

When it comes to Hillary's handling of e-mails Tim probably cannot state too much in the way of details and what policies she skirted around and etc., but he more or less got the big picture correct.  There were simple, reasonable answers to most everything and no evidence of any grand conspiracy, no evidence of covering up wrong doing,  even giving Comey "everyone should have known better"  the benefit of doubt on the seven no significant glaringly obvious ignoring of classified information.  Tim got this right. Maybe blind luck but he got it right.  Except it wasn't blind luck it was simply a cautious approach that had faith that there is usually a simple explanation which gets skipped past because it is boring,  What really happened had some issues, but it was mostly boring. 

That, and his love of all things Hillary!

Pretty good summary of my thoughts at the time. But I never loved ALL things Hillary. I liked her, and still do. But she has her flaws. 
 

I certainly don’t love most things Trump (not sure I love anything about Trump) but in the scheme of things this seems like a pretty minor crime to me. 

 

[James Daulton]

Wasn't the OP the one complaining about how "I don't know how conservatives get away with the things they say in here!!"?

And then we get this thread from him? 

Just sayin'. 

What's wrong with this thread?  Oh wait, does it say how conservatives are destroying cities?

 

[The Commish]

So you are saying that @timschochet was oh so wrong based on a side topic, a tangent where you could find quotes to support your concerns?  When did @timschochet ever venture into this side topic?    

When it comes to Hillary's handling of e-mails Tim probably cannot state too much in the way of details and what policies she skirted around and etc., but he more or less got the big picture correct.  There were simple, reasonable answers to most everything and no evidence of any grand conspiracy, no evidence of covering up wrong doing,  even giving Comey "everyone should have known better"  the benefit of doubt on the seven no significant glaringly obvious ignoring of classified information.  Tim got this right. Maybe blind luck but he got it right.  Except it wasn't blind luck it was simply a cautious approach that had faith that there is usually a simple explanation which gets skipped past because it is boring,  What really happened had some issues, but it was mostly boring. 

That, and his love of all things Hillary!

That thread had a ton of tangents...the emails themselves were a small part.  It was a myriad of topics being discussed.  His lack of concern that our top ranking officials are completely inept in ability to assign proper concern to cyber security types of threats are well documented.  That flows over into this thread where he doesn't have a problem with what Trump did either continues to give a pass on that lack of understanding.  This is the arena where our next world war will likely be fought and we're getting the same excuses laid out there for Hillary.  It's weird and completely wrong.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Thoughts on did Trump violate the Presidential Records Act?

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

(a)

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

(b)

Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

Technically, yes it appears that he did violate the act. Under different circumstances I think it would be petty to charge him with it. Like if he took his favorite map from the map room for example. But if it's concerning documents that show he was trying to change the election outcome? Then he should be charged. 

 

[crackattack]

Anyone use the "lock him up" chant yet? 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

We should probably be shooting for actual, meaningful relief, no?  It's easy to achieve what you want here.  Just change your perception.  Problem solved...which is my overall point from before.

Yeah, I knew what your overall point was …

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Pretty good summary of my thoughts at the time. But I never loved ALL things Hillary. I liked her, and still do. But she has her flaws. 
 

I certainly don’t love most things Trump (not sure I love anything about Trump) but in the scheme of things this seems like a pretty minor crime to me. 

Expressing opinion on the topic at hand rather than this tangent that at this point only exist in my mind makes you as wrong as always!  

 

[roadkill1292]

I'm not going to back off on the "other guy was worse" stuff until the other guy agrees to leave the political arena.

 

[Dickies]

Following his State of the union speech when Pelosi tore up her copy of President Trump’s  speech he claimed:

WASHINGTON – Departing the White House Friday afternoon, President Donald Trump asserted that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "broke the law" in tearing up her copy of his State of Union address after he concluded his remarks Tuesday. 

“Well I thought it was a terrible thing when she ripped up the speech. First of all, it’s an official document. You’re not allowed. It’s illegal what she did. She broke the law," he told reporters. 

Experts, however, disagree with Trump.

Although Trump did not cite a specific law, several of his allies, as well as his son Donald Trump Jr., have asserted that she violated the Presidential Records Act or other statutes governing the maintenance of federal records.
 

First of all Pelosi’s copy is just that, a copy. However what President Trump did was destroy the only copies and they are Presidential records. But hey I am good if with it if you throw both Pelosi and Trump in jail.

That clears up the fact that Trump knew what he was doing was illegal. 

 

[FairWarning]

That clears up the fact that Trump knew what he was doing was illegal. 

When it’s trump, I start off with grey, because everything he seems to do borders on the shady side, then we go from there.

 

[shadrap]

The National Archives has retrieved boxes of presidential records from former Pres. Trump's Mar-a-Lago club that were improperly moved after he left the White House, including letters from former Pres. Obama and Kim Jong Un. @jonkarl reports. https://t.co/7Ct2JCvVZ3 https://t.co/U2RtGCXPqj

we got him now!!!!!

 

[lazyike]

we got him now!!!!!

"Just" letters from other world leaders cause there would be nothing future Presidents should know about correspondence from them! 

 

[jon_mx]

This is an odd thread.  Usually when there are whataboutisms about Trump, Trump is taking it one step farther.  In this particular case, what Hillary did was much worse as it exposed a lot of classified material to foreign hackers.  Trump seemed to be destroying the most mundane day to day stuff, which despite what some ignorant poster thinks was very much just mostly printed copies of material.  

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

This is an odd thread.  Usually when there are whataboutisms about Trump, Trump is taking it one step farther.  In this particular case, what Hillary did was much worse as it exposed a lot of classified material to foreign hackers.  Trump seemed to be destroying the most mundane day to day stuff, which despite what some ignorant poster thinks was very much just mostly printed copies of material.  

Define "a lot"?

 

[The Commish]

This is an odd thread.  Usually when there are whataboutisms about Trump, Trump is taking it one step farther.  In this particular case, what Hillary did was much worse as it exposed a lot of classified material to foreign hackers.  Trump seemed to be destroying the most mundane day to day stuff, which despite what some ignorant poster thinks was very much just mostly printed copies of material.  

Always classy with the name calling

The ignorance, of course, is in the thought that the media on which the information rests is relevant.  It's not.  It's all to be turned over to the National Archives.  There's a law and everything.  I guess we'll scratch "law and order guy" off your CV here....pick and choose as you see fit.   

 

[jon_mx]

Define "a lot"?

At least 1,730 Clinton emails contain classified material

 

[Prinefan]

This is an odd thread.  Usually when there are whataboutisms about Trump, Trump is taking it one step farther.  In this particular case, what Hillary did was much worse as it exposed a lot of classified material to foreign hackers.  Trump seemed to be destroying the most mundane day to day stuff, which despite what some ignorant poster thinks was very much just mostly printed copies of material.  

Just curious how you know what he's already destroyed?  Or even what he brought with him in the 15 boxes?  

 

[jon_mx]

Always classy with the name calling

The ignorance, of course, is in the thought that the media on which the information rests is relevant.  It's not.  It's all to be turned over to the National Archives.  There's a law and everything.  I guess we'll scratch "law and order guy" off your CV here....pick and choose as you see fit.   

You constantly misrepresent yourself as a centrist (you are indeed a leftist, sorry) you promise to never respond to me, but yet you constantly use your passive-aggrssiveness to attack me without quoting me or addressing me.  Such a wimpy tactic.  

 

[jon_mx]

Just curious how you know what he's already destroyed?  Or even what he brought with him in the 15 boxes?  

Based on what is in the OP,  which said it were briefings and schedules, articles and letters.  These are not his creations or his correspondence.  These are things other people create and print out and hand to him.  He just tears them up when he is done.  Very weird behavior, but I am not sure what is supposed to have been accomplished.  It is odd that you are questioning my skepticism at the importance of the act but not those hyperventilating over the crime of the century, destroyong some paper copy of a meeting agenda.

 

[Prinefan]

Based on what is in the OP,  which said it were briefings and schedules, articles and letters.  These are not his creations or his correspondence.  These are things other people create and print out and hand to him.  He just tears them up when he is done.  Very weird behavior, but I am not sure what is supposed to have been accomplished.  It is odd that you are questioning my skepticism at the importance of the act but not those hyperventilating over the crime of the century, destroyong some paper copy of a meeting agenda.

Where did I question your skepticism at the act's importance?  Please don't try to put words in my keyboard.  My skepticism is about why he's sued to keep documents from the public eye, destroyed documents to accomplish the same and taken some of the documents with him knowing it's against the rules.  This thread had reached the Mir-a-lago documents he had taken and seemed that your response was addressing.  

 

[-fish-]

We have a Presidential Records Act because Gerald Ford's lawyer caught Al Haig trying to take White House tapes and documents to Richard NIxon's residence in San Clemente.

Trump's actions are exactly what the PRA is designed to prevent, no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it, or what "facts" someone wants to make up about what was stolen or destroyed.   

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

At least 1,730 Clinton emails contain classified material

Cool!  Posting an article behind a paywall which very likely reporting something already dealt with in this thread.   Since I can find the same headline here from Feb 2016 I'll assume that is the case.  Sorry but that answer was wrong, or at least a misunderstanding of what is allowed for the government to share on non secured environment versus what it can share with the public. 

 

[The Commish]

You constantly misrepresent yourself as a centrist (you are indeed a leftist, sorry) you promise to never respond to me, but yet you constantly use your passive-aggrssiveness to attack me without quoting me or addressing me.  Such a wimpy tactic.  

I only respond to you when you put words in my mouth or misrepresent what I'm saying.  If you don't want me to respond to you, don't do those things and we won't have a problem.

Appreciate the COMPLETE and THOROUGH deflection of the point as well.  Another trait you've mastered.  Well done  

Call me all the names you like.  This is typically the tactic of those who have no real interest in honest dialogue.  I'll begin to be concerned when you think of me as anything other than whatever it is you mean by "leftist".  That would mean I am getting closer to your views as you push the envelope to the incredibly angry fringes of the right.  Definitely the "canary in the coalmine" sign I'll make sure to keep an eye on.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I'm not going to back off on the "other guy was worse" stuff until the other guy agrees to leave the political arena.

How about throwing some shade on the present disaster in the WH?

 

[AAABatteries]

Former White House aide Omarosa Manigault Newman has said she walked in on President Donald Trump eating paper after a meeting with lawyer Michael Cohen, in what she believed was an effort to destroy sensitive information.



https://www.newsweek.com/trump-ate-sensitive-document-after-cohen-meeting-former-white-house-aide-1069399

 

[-fish-]

Former White House aide Omarosa Manigault Newman has said she walked in on President Donald Trump eating paper after a meeting with lawyer Michael Cohen, in what she believed was an effort to destroy sensitive information.



https://www.newsweek.com/trump-ate-sensitive-document-after-cohen-meeting-former-white-house-aide-1069399

She has some gems.   Good thing that one of the multitude of Trump court losses was the dismissal of his attempt to enforce an NDA against her.

 

[the moops]

Based on what is in the OP,  which said it were briefings and schedules, articles and letters.  These are not his creations or his correspondence.  These are things other people create and print out and hand to him.  He just tears them up when he is done.  Very weird behavior, but I am not sure what is supposed to have been accomplished.  It is odd that you are questioning my skepticism at the importance of the act but not those hyperventilating over the crime of the century, destroyong some paper copy of a meeting agenda.

Hmmm

The National Archives and Records Administration discovered what it believed was classified information in documents Donald J. Trump had taken with him from the White House as he left office, according to a person briefed on the matter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/09/us/politics/national-archives-trump-classified-material.html

 

[The Commish]

National Archives is asking for an investigation into documents. Weird that they care so much about a bunch of vacation brochures. 

Not that it matters given the fact that no matter how "insignificant", everything is to be turned over by law. 

 

[jon_mx]

Hmmm

The National Archives and Records Administration discovered what it believed was classified information in documents Donald J. Trump had taken with him from the White House as he left office, according to a person briefed on the matter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/09/us/politics/national-archives-trump-classified-material.html

Finally, that sounds like maybe a similar crime as Hillary. Trump needs to face the same consequence as Hillary did.  

 

[James Daulton]

Finally, that sounds like maybe a similar crime as Hillary. Trump needs to face the same consequence as Hillary did.  

Let's hope conservatives are as outraged over this...whom am I kidding?

Not allowed to criticize the absolute leader of the party. 

 

[Sabertooth]

Let's hope conservatives are as outraged over this...whom am I kidding?

Not allowed to criticize the absolute leader of the party. 

I think god king is the preferred nomenclature.  

 

[jon_mx]

Let's hope conservatives are as outraged over this...whom am I kidding?

Not allowed to criticize the absolute leader of the party. 

I am always consistent.  I favor equal treatment under the law.  What actual makes Hillary's case worse is she put the information exposed on the internet where it was hacked by foreign national, so there was a grave threat to our security.   I doubt if any foreign nation got into Trump's pike of paper. 

 

[Sabertooth]

What’s the disaster?  Jobs looking good, unemployment down, omicron looks to be receding, press Secretary is giving press conferences like an actual professional, nobody rage tweeting what to buy and what to boycott.  Stock market is way better than Trumps.  

 

[James Daulton]

What’s the disaster?  Jobs looking good, unemployment down, omicron looks to be receding, press Secretary is giving press conferences like an actual professional, nobody rage tweeting what to buy and what to boycott.  Stock market is way better than Trumps.  

Particularly when you compare 2020 to 2021.  2020 was a massive failure of everything other than inflation because no one was buying anything.  In 2021 the only issue we face is worldwide inflation and border issues.  Biden's on the hook for the border but unemployment is close to pre-pandemic levels, wages are up bigly, vaccines have been available for all since last spring, GDP is through the roof, and Biden is staring down Putin.

Imagine if Trump were still POTUS?  He'd likely line up with Putin to invade Urkraine.

Inflation will begin to tick down as Covid subsides for good this spring and the world opens up.  If he can get a handle on the border things are looking rosy for ol' Joe.

C'mon man!

 

[James Daulton]

I am always consistent.  I favor equal treatment under the law.  What actual makes Hillary's case worse is she put the information exposed on the internet where it was hacked by foreign national, so there was a grave threat to our security.   I doubt if any foreign nation got into Trump's pike of paper. 

You literally call liberals disgusting and nazis in many of your posts.  And you can't seem to come to grips with the fact that trying to prevent the peaceful transition of power by attacking the capital is a different caliber of crime than riots that have happened all throughout this country's history.  Just like the attempted assignation of an elected official (or pretty white girl) gets so much more media and law enforcement attention. 

 

[lazyike]

While I am waiting for more media sources to confirm there is reporting that some documents were found clogging the toilet in the White House during President Trump’s tenure there. If true perhaps we can further understand about his complaint about having to flush toilets 10-15 times.

https://www.axios.com/maggie-haberman-book-trump-papers-2d59d593-8b89-4edd-8623-8ef709af524f.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/12/06/trump-americans-flushing-toilets-10-times-15-times/4360782002/
 

“Darn things are so poor I can’t get documents flushed down them”

 

[Sabertooth]

Particularly when you compare 2020 to 2021.  2020 was a massive failure of everything other than inflation because no one was buying anything.  In 2021 the only issue we face is worldwide inflation and border issues.  Biden's on the hook for the border but unemployment is close to pre-pandemic levels, wages are up bigly, vaccines have been available for all since last spring, GDP is through the roof, and Biden is staring down Putin.

Imagine if Trump were still POTUS?  He'd likely line up with Putin to invade Urkraine.

Inflation will begin to tick down as Covid subsides for good this spring and the world opens up.  If he can get a handle on the border things are looking rosy for ol' Joe.

C'mon man!

I have no doubt.  Plus the Democrats are lifting mask mandates, the Trump party is cracking apart as the radicals push their version of acceptable public discourse on the old guard.  

 

[Ruffrodys05]

Between eating documents and flushing them down the toilet you'd think DJT didn't quite get past 4th grade. The only reason he didn't have a dog eat his "homework" is because the dog would have been exponentially smarter.