Which Players get too much love on this board? (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

MB3 is a top-10 RB, maybe. But he's not a top 5-7 RB, and that's where quite a few people are ranking him.

I'd need to see your Top 10 RBs then.Hard to argue that someone that's a consensus first round pick and has an ADP in the Top 10 doesn't deserve it or is overhyped.

I disagree wholeheartedly with that. Every year 50% of the top-10 ranked RBs don't finish in the top-10, so it's very arguable about almost ANY of them that they are overrated.I agree MB3 is probably top-10, but I don't see him as 4-6 which is where I am seeing him ranked repeatedly.

I've seen him ranked before Addai, Westbrook, Gore, all of whom I would guarantee finish with more points than he does.

I don't discount the TDs, I figure he'll finish with 13-15 TDs. I just don't see his touches increasing as some of the people ranking him higher must think. Truth is, he's in an RBBC, they drafted a guy in the first round to play a role in the RBBC, there's just no way he gets enough opportunity to be anything more than a borderline top-10 RB, barring another season where most of the elite RBs suffer extended injuries.

Honestly, when I see Barber, he reminds me a ton of Barlow... with one exception, he works very hard. Barlow didn't want to work at all. But neither were elite talents, and had inflated numbers based on the situations they ran in... I don't think Barber will put up numbers as a starter the way people think.

Switz, Barlow didn't have even close to the balance MB3 has; he has an Edge like balance

 

[BigJim®]

MB3 is a top-10 RB, maybe. But he's not a top 5-7 RB

What was the scoring difference between RB10 and RB 5-7 in your league last year? Whatever that amount is, all this is about that difference?

 

[Max Power]

When I started this thread, I thought for sure someone would mention Laurent Robinson. I like the guy, but I feel like a FBG staff led push has put him in the overrated category on my board.

 

[LBH]

Roddy White, and Im one of the engines driving the propaganda machine

 

[switz]

MB3 is a top-10 RB, maybe. But he's not a top 5-7 RB

What was the scoring difference between RB10 and RB 5-7 in your league last year? Whatever that amount is, all this is about that difference?

I think in the first round, the gaps are larger than in the later rounds, and having a tier 3 guy in tier 1 (hypothetically speaking) can lose someone their league.From 6-7 was 20 points in itself in my league. From 7-10 was another 30 points.

In '06 though, a more normal FF season for RBs, the difference between 6 and 10 was EIGHTY points. That's a huge drop off for a first round pick.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Roddy White, and Im one of the engines driving the propaganda machine

For those of you hitching your wagon to him this year - enjoy.

 

[spec1alk]

JP - you are one of the reasons that MB3 is overhyped. "We" don't need to go there... I wasn't the first, not even the second, to throw MB3's name in the ring.

MB3 is a top-10 RB, maybe. But he's not a top 5-7 RB, and that's where quite a few people are ranking him.

I'd need to see your Top 10 RBs then.Hard to argue that someone that's a consensus first round pick and has an ADP in the Top 10 doesn't deserve it or is overhyped.

I think a case can be made for him as RB6 as he is placed in the current FBG dynasty rankings. Other than ADP, LT, SJ, Westbrook, Addai, who would you take before him? I don't think I would take portis or LJ ahead of him. I would be tempted to take Gore. MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

 

[FUBAR]

MB3

He's a good player, but he's not an elite dynasty back. He'll lose touches to Felix and he could be in for a dropoff if Owens breaks down and the Dallas offense hits the wall. I don't think he's a guy you can build an FF team around.

Immediately who I thought of when I saw the subject line.

Do we really want to go there again?MB3 is a RB1 and will be for several more years. Debate all you like, but he's a Top 10 / Round 1 pick.

That's pretty much the point, he shouldn't be. Plus, it seems many here (could just be perception) like to rate him just below AD/LT/SJax. IMO, he's a couple tiers below.

In 3 years, he hasn't even exceeded 1,000 yards rushing.

The team just drafted another RB to use in RBBC.

Do you expect Barber to do a lot better than he did with JJones?

He's a TD machine, but do you want to rely on TDs, without yardage, as part of a RBBC, as your RB1? Even if he ends up top 10 over the season, when you're relying on TDs as much as he is, it just doesn't seem the smart play.

I really don't get the hating on Barber - how far down the list would you put him? RB12? RB15?The debate on him is way too much - he's not a Top 3 RB, fine. He's not below Top 15 either. So he is 4-14, depending on your personal opinion.

Some of your replies about "relying on TDs" and "never had 1,000 yards" are confusing at best - in a standard scoring league or FBG scoring, he's a Top 10 guy, period.

As per my personal opinion, well - he was a HUGE value before he broke out last year. He could be drafted in Rounds 4-5 last year and was by myself and others in many leagues, who were rewarded.

Now he's a Round 1 guy in redraft - Round 2 if you're very lucky - with more downside than upside which I agree with - but it's hardly overhype. He has performed in a RBBC before and will again, plus he was a Pro Bowler without even starting.

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.How are you confused? TDs aren't all that consistent year to year and he isn't getting enough yardage to make up for any downfall in TDs.

JP, I like your analysis on a lot of players and strategies, but when you're putting a guy who has never ran for 1,000 yards, is in a RBBC, his team just drafted a RB in the 1st, and isn't even a great receiver, as the 6th best player in a dynasty league, you're delusional.

That you're even putting him in the discussion for #4 is indicative of the over-love. There's no way he's close to LT, AD, SJax, Addai, or Westbrook, that isn't debateable. Maybe he's better than #15, but he's closer to 15 than 4.

 

[FUBAR]

JP - you are one of the reasons that MB3 is overhyped. "We" don't need to go there... I wasn't the first, not even the second, to throw MB3's name in the ring.

MB3 is a top-10 RB, maybe. But he's not a top 5-7 RB, and that's where quite a few people are ranking him.

I'd need to see your Top 10 RBs then.Hard to argue that someone that's a consensus first round pick and has an ADP in the Top 10 doesn't deserve it or is overhyped.

I think a case can be made for him as RB6 as he is placed in the current FBG dynasty rankings. Other than ADP, LT, SJ, Westbrook, Addai, who would you take before him? I don't think I would take portis or LJ ahead of him. I would be tempted to take Gore. MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

Those 5.Portis

Gore

Lynch

MJD

McGahee

In a dynasty, I might even take McFadden and Brown ahead of him, not to mention a few WRs and maybe Brady/Peyton.

In short, he won't be my 1st round pick.

Having an ADP in the top 10 does not mean he's worth it.

 

[menobrown]

MB3

He's a good player, but he's not an elite dynasty back. He'll lose touches to Felix and he could be in for a dropoff if Owens breaks down and the Dallas offense hits the wall. I don't think he's a guy you can build an FF team around.

You think he's going to lose touches from last year? He wasn't even the starter last year and now as the starter you think he's going to lose touches? All the guy has to do is do what he's been doing and he'll be worth his draft pick, somewhere around 6, 7, or 8. It will take an injury to MB3 for him not to be in the top 8 Rb's this year and if that were to happen to any back, that would certainly hurt a fantasy team losing your 1st round pick.

He was 14th in points per game in standard scoring leagues and worse than that in PPR leagues. If he does what he did last year he's not going to be worth were he is getting picked. If he gets more touches I have no doubt he will produce and live up to his pick but Julius only got around 10 carries a game while being extremely unproductive. Unless Felix Jones just blows I can't see them spending a #1 draft pick on a guy who they won't use at least as much as they used an unproductive Julius.

 

[switz]

A ton of really re: MB3.

It seems the people who overrate him (IMO) are basing that on unfounded expectations, i.e. he's going to get 300 carries, he got 19 million guaranteed so he won't be in an RBBC, Felix Jones is worse than Julius Jones, and are ignoring Cowboys history or actions which speak louder than words.

Sometimes the right guess on a player can win you a season, but when you overpay it often costs you a season.

 

[switz]

MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

I have a history as an MJD-hater, which I'm not. As long as Taylor is there, MJD will not be the starter. But... once Taylor is gone, probably after this season, MJD is the #1 RB there, with no RBBC.Barber will always be in an RBBC.That in itself makes MJD a better dynasty pick than Barber.

 

[joffer]

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

wat?

 

[BigJim®]

His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

You mean the team that just extended him for several years with $19 million in guarantees? How the heck is that not having faith in him? If you are referring to the adding of rookies, you realize they drafted RBs because JJ and T.Thompson were gone and the cupboard was completely bare, right?If you don't like Barber late in the 1st, then just pass on him. As mentioned, he has already lived up to that draft position 2 consecutive years.

 

[BigJim®]

A ton of really re: MB3.

It seems the people who overrate him (IMO) are basing that on unfounded expectations, i.e. he's going to get 300 carries

With all due respect, you make this statement in every Barber thread and there's never anyone who is saying this. Why does it "seem" like people have this expectation to you? The people I see in this thread are saying he has already proven himself as a top 10 RB even sharing carries. That doesn't hinge future expectations on an assumption he'll achieve 300+ carries.

 

[jurb26]

QB:

Rodgers

RBs:

Peterson

Grant

Graham

Turner

Stewart

Anyone in Den

WRs:

Welker

C. Johnson

Ward

Berrian

Bruce

TEs:

Heap

Davis

 

[FUBAR]

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

wat?

Drafting a RB with the 22nd pick doesn't scream support to me. They aren't completely set elsewhere and (just my opinion) Felix wasn't the undisuptable best player available.

They obviously like RBBC, which tells us that Barber's carries will not increase.

Sure, he's done well in RBBC before, but only because he has gotten 15 TDs. I just won't project another season where he gets a TD for every 10 or 20 carries - that's better than Bettis was doing most years. Nor do I think he's likely to get 40+ receptions again with Felix in town.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but there's no way I'd rank him top 10.

 

[BigJim®]

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

wat?

Drafting a RB with the 22nd pick doesn't scream support to me.

Sorry, that's just poor logic. Here was the depth chart pre-draft:1. Marion Barber

2. Alonzo Coleman

Even the staunchest MBIII supporters knew the Cowboys would target a RB with one of the 2 1st round picks, and I even assumed they would grab a FA since it was rumored they were looking for a 3rd down type [C.Johnson/F.Jones] who would be a serious liability if asked to fill in for Barber in the event of injury. Apparently your point is they should have filled that gaping hole in the RB depth chart with some lesser rookie? To me, drafting a 3rd down back and later grabbing T.Choice in lieu of getting one of the viable FAs out their is telling, in the opposite direction of what you are claiming.

 

[FUBAR]

His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

You mean the team that just extended him for several years with $19 million in guarantees? How the heck is that not having faith in him? If you are referring to the adding of rookies, you realize they drafted RBs because JJ and T.Thompson were gone and the cupboard was completely bare, right?

If you don't like Barber late in the 1st, then just pass on him. As mentioned, he has already lived up to that draft position 2 consecutive years.

In TD heavy leagues perhaps. In mine, he wasn't top 15 in PPG either year.

If you mean he lived up to the draft position because he stayed healthy, swell. However, he was barely top 10 last year and top 15 in 2006.

 

[FUBAR]

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

wat?

Drafting a RB with the 22nd pick doesn't scream support to me.

Sorry, that's just poor logic. Here was the depth chart pre-draft:1. Marion Barber

2. Alonzo Coleman

Even the staunchest MBIII supporters knew the Cowboys would target a RB with one of the 2 1st round picks, and I even assumed they would grab a FA since it was rumored they were looking for a 3rd down type [C.Johnson/F.Jones] who would be a serious liability if asked to fill in for Barber in the event of injury. Apparently your point is they should have filled that gaping hole in the RB depth chart with some lesser rookie? To me, drafting a 3rd down back and later grabbing T.Choice in lieu of getting one of the viable FAs out their is telling, in the opposite direction of what you are claiming.

Sure, most knew the Cowboys were taking Felix, because the owner likes the kid. I'm not sure how that helps Barber. They were looking for a good receiver, which should indicate Barber will lose some catches.

Like I keep saying, the Cowboys clearly like RBBC, which unless you think Felix is worse than JJones, still doesn't help Barber.

If you like him, great. The main point many of us are making is he's too "loved" around here given the situation.

 

[BigJim®]

His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

You mean the team that just extended him for several years with $19 million in guarantees? How the heck is that not having faith in him? If you are referring to the adding of rookies, you realize they drafted RBs because JJ and T.Thompson were gone and the cupboard was completely bare, right?

If you don't like Barber late in the 1st, then just pass on him. As mentioned, he has already lived up to that draft position 2 consecutive years.

In TD heavy leagues perhaps. In mine, he wasn't top 15 in PPG either year.

If you mean he lived up to the draft position because he stayed healthy, swell. However, he was barely top 10 last year and top 15 in 2006.

What do you mean he would only finish top 10 in TD heavy leagues? That's ridiculous. He finished #7 in my very typical 1/10, 6/TD performance scoring league. What's your basis for that statement?You've mentioned PPG a couple times now... does your league use PPG somehow? Please explain, because it comes off as your use of warped logic trying to pretend that guys who actually underperformed Barber outperformed him. Please list those 15 RBs, and how they finished in final scoring.

TIA

 

[joffer]

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

wat?

Drafting a RB with the 22nd pick doesn't scream support to me. They aren't completely set elsewhere and (just my opinion) Felix wasn't the undisuptable best player available.

They obviously like RBBC, which tells us that Barber's carries will not increase.

Sure, he's done well in RBBC before, but only because he has gotten 15 TDs. I just won't project another season where he gets a TD for every 10 or 20 carries - that's better than Bettis was doing most years. Nor do I think he's likely to get 40+ receptions again with Felix in town.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but there's no way I'd rank him top 10.

ah, ok. so you basically have nothing backing that up. i was worried i'd missed something. thx

 

[FUBAR]

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

wat?

Drafting a RB with the 22nd pick doesn't scream support to me. They aren't completely set elsewhere and (just my opinion) Felix wasn't the undisuptable best player available.

They obviously like RBBC, which tells us that Barber's carries will not increase.

Sure, he's done well in RBBC before, but only because he has gotten 15 TDs. I just won't project another season where he gets a TD for every 10 or 20 carries - that's better than Bettis was doing most years. Nor do I think he's likely to get 40+ receptions again with Felix in town.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but there's no way I'd rank him top 10.

ah, ok. so you basically have nothing backing that up. i was worried i'd missed something. thx

you're missing something alright. I never said his team doesn't like him, I said they don't have enough faith in him for us to rank him #6.

 

[joffer]

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

wat?

Drafting a RB with the 22nd pick doesn't scream support to me. They aren't completely set elsewhere and (just my opinion) Felix wasn't the undisuptable best player available.

They obviously like RBBC, which tells us that Barber's carries will not increase.

Sure, he's done well in RBBC before, but only because he has gotten 15 TDs. I just won't project another season where he gets a TD for every 10 or 20 carries - that's better than Bettis was doing most years. Nor do I think he's likely to get 40+ receptions again with Felix in town.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but there's no way I'd rank him top 10.

ah, ok. so you basically have nothing backing that up. i was worried i'd missed something. thx

you're missing something alright. I never said his team doesn't like him, I said they don't have enough faith in him for us to rank him #6.

i'd love to hear that onereporter: "Jerry, how much faith do you have in Marion Barber?"

Jerry Jones: "Well, he's our workhorse back, we just gave him a big contract, and we drafted Felix Jones to keep him fresh and add a good change of pace, but those of you ranking him #6 on your FF draftboards are nuts"

 

[FUBAR]

Sure he was a value in the 4th last year, how does that mean he should be the #6 pick now? His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

wat?

Drafting a RB with the 22nd pick doesn't scream support to me. They aren't completely set elsewhere and (just my opinion) Felix wasn't the undisuptable best player available.

They obviously like RBBC, which tells us that Barber's carries will not increase.

Sure, he's done well in RBBC before, but only because he has gotten 15 TDs. I just won't project another season where he gets a TD for every 10 or 20 carries - that's better than Bettis was doing most years. Nor do I think he's likely to get 40+ receptions again with Felix in town.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but there's no way I'd rank him top 10.

ah, ok. so you basically have nothing backing that up. i was worried i'd missed something. thx

you're missing something alright. I never said his team doesn't like him, I said they don't have enough faith in him for us to rank him #6.

i'd love to hear that onereporter: "Jerry, how much faith do you have in Marion Barber?"

Jerry Jones: "Well, he's our workhorse back, we just gave him a big contract, and we drafted Felix Jones to keep him fresh and add a good change of pace, but those of you ranking him #6 on your FF draftboards are nuts"

ah ok, so what would you expect the owner to say about his own players? @ "workhorse"

Since 2000, there has been one RB on the team when their team drafted a RB in the first, who has had more than one additional season of high-level success for that team.

 

[menobrown]

What do you mean he would only finish top 10 in TD heavy leagues? That's ridiculous. He finished #7 in my very typical 1/10, 6/TD performance scoring league. What's your basis for that statement?

You've mentioned PPG a couple times now... does your league use PPG somehow? Please explain, because it comes off as your use of warped logic trying to pretend that guys who actually underperformed Barber outperformed him. Please list those 15 RBs, and how they finished in final scoring.

TIA

In terms of fantasy points per game Barber has never finished in the top 10. I believe in the scoring format you just mentioned he would have been 14th.If you are using his total points to say he is 7th that is warped logic because you are assuming the top RB's will all miss the same amount of games while Barber will miss no time.

Unless you play in a league were you can make no roster moves all season and you can predict injuries I don't see were fantasy points on the season are relevant. It's all about points per game.

 

[David Yudkin]

WRs:C. Johnson

I'd be interested to hear the rationale behind this one.His ADP is WR10. His last 5 seasons he's ranked 3, 9, 4, 4, and 6.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Reggie Bush

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

I have a history as an MJD-hater, which I'm not. As long as Taylor is there, MJD will not be the starter. But... once Taylor is gone, probably after this season, MJD is the #1 RB there, with no RBBC.Barber will always be in an RBBC.That in itself makes MJD a better dynasty pick than Barber.

I couldn't care less if a player produces 100 yards and a TD on 2 carries or 20.RBBC doesn't matter to me - production does.

 

[BigJim®]

In terms of fantasy points per game Barber has never finished in the top 10. I believe in the scoring format you just mentioned he would have been 14th.

So basically, you are forecasting/projecting all RBs based on their under 16 game PPG to argue that Barber ranks 14th at something? Again, how many points does your league award for PPG when a player isn't actually playing? Mine only counts actual points scored.

If you are using his total points to say he is 7th that is warped logic because you are assuming the top RB's will all miss the same amount of games while Barber will miss no time.

It's warped logice to credit a player for finishing RB7 for, you know, actually finishing RB7 in production? Whatever guy.

 

[David Yudkin]

MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

I have a history as an MJD-hater, which I'm not. As long as Taylor is there, MJD will not be the starter. But... once Taylor is gone, probably after this season, MJD is the #1 RB there, with no RBBC.Barber will always be in an RBBC.That in itself makes MJD a better dynasty pick than Barber.

I couldn't care less if a player produces 100 yards and a TD on 2 carries or 20.RBBC doesn't matter to me - production does.

Here's the thing about both MBIII and MJD. Because most of their value is drived from scoring TDs and not a heavy workload, they make tempting picks on the chance they get a ton of work and score at the same rate.Barber has had value scores of 20 and 62 the past two years. MJD has had scores of 67 and 36. Based on yearend VBD rankings, Barber has ranked 50th and 25th the past two years while MJD has ranked 16th and 41st.Given that MBIII is going at 8th overall and MJD is going 19th on average, IMO if these two don't get more touches they are dicey picks at the spot they are getting drafted.

 

[spec1alk]

I think a case can be made for him as RB6 as he is placed in the current FBG dynasty rankings. Other than ADP, LT, SJ, Westbrook, Addai, who would you take before him? I don't think I would take portis or LJ ahead of him. I would be tempted to take Gore. MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

Those 5.PortisGoreLynchMJDMcGaheeIn a dynasty, I might even take McFadden and Brown ahead of him, not to mention a few WRs and maybe Brady/Peyton.In short, he won't be my 1st round pick. Having an ADP in the top 10 does not mean he's worth it.

The discussion was about him being RB6, not 6th overall, so you can disregard QB/WR.Like I said, Gore/MJD vs MB3 is a toss-up. I would say Portis vs MB3 would be a toss-up if Al Saunders was still the O-Coordinator.I would probably add Ryan Grant to the list of players that I would consider close enough not to argue with if he were ahead of MB3.I can't see Lynch or McGahee over him.

MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

I have a history as an MJD-hater, which I'm not. As long as Taylor is there, MJD will not be the starter. But... once Taylor is gone, probably after this season, MJD is the #1 RB there, with no RBBC.Barber will always be in an RBBC.That in itself makes MJD a better dynasty pick than Barber.

A ton of really re: MB3.It seems the people who overrate him (IMO) are basing that on unfounded expectations, i.e. he's going to get 300 carries, he got 19 million guaranteed so he won't be in an RBBC, Felix Jones is worse than Julius Jones, and are ignoring Cowboys history or actions which speak louder than words.Sometimes the right guess on a player can win you a season, but when you overpay it often costs you a season.

I do not believe he will receive more than 225 carries, maybe 250 but that is the most I see him gettting. I think too many people are putting a little too much emphasis on the "RBBC" label. The days of having a #1 guy who gets 80% of the carries are over. How many teams last year had 1 guy get 80% of the carries (maybe even 70%)? I doubt there are more than 8 teams like that. If you want a guy who will get 300+ carries then that means you should be taking Edge and Jamal Lewis before MB3. It just doesn't happen anymore. Teams are moving to a split back system where you have a guy for 1st & 2nd down, one for 3rd down, and your goal-line guy.While I doubt he will get >1,000yds or >225 touches, he will still score 12-15 TDs.

 

[menobrown]

In terms of fantasy points per game Barber has never finished in the top 10. I believe in the scoring format you just mentioned he would have been 14th.

So basically, you are forecasting/projecting all RBs based on their under 16 game PPG to argue that Barber ranks 14th at something? Again, how many points does your league award for PPG when a player isn't actually playing? Mine only counts actual points scored.

If you are using his total points to say he is 7th that is warped logic because you are assuming the top RB's will all miss the same amount of games while Barber will miss no time.

It's warped logice to credit a player for finishing RB7 for, you know, actually finishing RB7 in production? Whatever guy.

So you play in a league that does not allow for substitutions? Again, as I said earlier, if your league does not allow for substitutions and you can accurately predict how many games every RB will play than you are on to something. Since I guess the former is not true and you are not from the future neither is the latter which makes the discussion of total points a rather moot point.

 

[spec1alk]

His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

You mean the team that just extended him for several years with $19 million in guarantees? How the heck is that not having faith in him? If you are referring to the adding of rookies, you realize they drafted RBs because JJ and T.Thompson were gone and the cupboard was completely bare, right?

If you don't like Barber late in the 1st, then just pass on him. As mentioned, he has already lived up to that draft position 2 consecutive years.

In TD heavy leagues perhaps. In mine, he wasn't top 15 in PPG either year.

If you mean he lived up to the draft position because he stayed healthy, swell. However, he was barely top 10 last year and top 15 in 2006.

What do you mean he would only finish top 10 in TD heavy leagues? That's ridiculous. He finished #7 in my very typical 1/10, 6/TD performance scoring league. What's your basis for that statement?You've mentioned PPG a couple times now... does your league use PPG somehow? Please explain, because it comes off as your use of warped logic trying to pretend that guys who actually underperformed Barber outperformed him. Please list those 15 RBs, and how they finished in final scoring.

TIA

In PPG Ronnie Brown undoubtedly smoked him (and several other players). I still would not take Brown ahead of him. PPG is more a guide, not a definitive rule. You could use it to justify a player or 2 who should be ahead of him, but not 7 or 8.

 

[jurb26]

WRs:C. Johnson

I'd be interested to hear the rationale behind this one.His ADP is WR10. His last 5 seasons he's ranked 3, 9, 4, 4, and 6.

Calvin not Chad. Sorry should have written the full name.

 

[FantasyTrader]

This thread reminds me of something I've been kicking around for awhile. There should really be something that's the equivilent of the Myers-Briggs personality inventory for fantasy football players.

One dichotomy could be:

stat-whore <-------------------------------> situation-whore

We all lie somewhere on the continuum.

100% Stat-Whore = 24 TD's in the last two year for Barber. Projected carries and supporting cast are relatively static. 12 TD's. Voila! Nothing more than a simple math problem.

100% Situation Whore = By far the highest rated projected RBBC guy this year. That alone should scare you. The dude gets the job done. But at this spot you're saying, "I expect Barber to outscore all but the elite. A RB that's never carried the ball more than last year's 204 times and never had a 1,000 yard rushing season. Yes, the 24 TD's in the last two years are very impressive. But Barber, more than any other 1st round RB is at the whim of how often the 'Boys set him up at the goal line. And Felix Jones is gonna make it harder for Dallas to keep him off the field than anyone expects.

It would be interesting to study and develop a set of strengths and weaknesses for each extreme of the dichotomy as a fantasy player.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I have a history as an MJD-hater, which I'm not. As long as Taylor is there, MJD will not be the starter. But... once Taylor is gone, probably after this season, MJD is the #1 RB there, with no RBBC.

Won't be surprised at all for them to still spilt carries between Jones-Drew and Greg Jones after Taylor hangs them up.

 

[FUBAR]

MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

I have a history as an MJD-hater, which I'm not. As long as Taylor is there, MJD will not be the starter. But... once Taylor is gone, probably after this season, MJD is the #1 RB there, with no RBBC.Barber will always be in an RBBC.

That in itself makes MJD a better dynasty pick than Barber.

I couldn't care less if a player produces 100 yards and a TD on 2 carries or 20.

RBBC doesn't matter to me - production does.

Are you sure you want to use yardage to make your point?With the 100 yards, I'd agree, but that's part of the problem here. Barber ran for over 100 yards 3 times last year, zero times in 2006, and once in 2005. So 4 times in 3 years.

Even when we include his receiving yards, he's gone over 100 yards 7 times in 45 games.

 

[FUBAR]

I think a case can be made for him as RB6 as he is placed in the current FBG dynasty rankings. Other than ADP, LT, SJ, Westbrook, Addai, who would you take before him? I don't think I would take portis or LJ ahead of him. I would be tempted to take Gore. MJD vs MB3 is pretty close to me.

Those 5.Portis

Gore

Lynch

MJD

McGahee

In a dynasty, I might even take McFadden and Brown ahead of him, not to mention a few WRs and maybe Brady/Peyton.

In short, he won't be my 1st round pick.

Having an ADP in the top 10 does not mean he's worth it.

The discussion was about him being RB6, not 6th overall, so you can disregard QB/WR.Like I said, Gore/MJD vs MB3 is a toss-up. I would say Portis vs MB3 would be a toss-up if Al Saunders was still the O-Coordinator.

I would probably add Ryan Grant to the list of players that I would consider close enough not to argue with if he were ahead of MB3.

I can't see Lynch or McGahee over him.

ok, yet he is ranked #6 overall by JP, #4 by one guy and #5 by two others. That's what I'm referring to.

 

[FUBAR]

This thread reminds me of something I've been kicking around for awhile. There should really be something that's the equivilent of the Myers-Briggs personality inventory for fantasy football players.

One dichotomy could be:

stat-whore <-------------------------------> situation-whore

We all lie somewhere on the continuum.

100% Stat-Whore = 24 TD's in the last two year for Barber. Projected carries and supporting cast are relatively static. 12 TD's. Voila! Nothing more than a simple math problem.

100% Situation Whore = By far the highest rated projected RBBC guy this year. That alone should scare you. The dude gets the job done. But at this spot you're saying, "I expect Barber to outscore all but the elite. A RB that's never carried the ball more than last year's 204 times and never had a 1,000 yard rushing season. Yes, the 24 TD's in the last two years are very impressive. But Barber, more than any other 1st round RB is at the whim of how often the 'Boys set him up at the goal line. And Felix Jones is gonna make it harder for Dallas to keep him off the field than anyone expects.

It would be interesting to study and develop a set of strengths and weaknesses for each extreme of the dichotomy as a fantasy player.

I think it would have to be a trichotomy. Something like

..........Talent

........../.........\

......../............\

......./...............\

Situation---------Stats

There are many of us who will take a more talented player even if he hasn't produced highly before and isn't supposed to be in a great situation.

 

[FUBAR]

His own team doesn't even have that much faith in him.

You mean the team that just extended him for several years with $19 million in guarantees? How the heck is that not having faith in him? If you are referring to the adding of rookies, you realize they drafted RBs because JJ and T.Thompson were gone and the cupboard was completely bare, right?

If you don't like Barber late in the 1st, then just pass on him. As mentioned, he has already lived up to that draft position 2 consecutive years.

In TD heavy leagues perhaps. In mine, he wasn't top 15 in PPG either year.

If you mean he lived up to the draft position because he stayed healthy, swell. However, he was barely top 10 last year and top 15 in 2006.

What do you mean he would only finish top 10 in TD heavy leagues? That's ridiculous. He finished #7 in my very typical 1/10, 6/TD performance scoring league. What's your basis for that statement?You've mentioned PPG a couple times now... does your league use PPG somehow? Please explain, because it comes off as your use of warped logic trying to pretend that guys who actually underperformed Barber outperformed him. Please list those 15 RBs, and how they finished in final scoring.

TIA

We do use PPG, because we play against another team each week.

 

[spec1alk]

ok, yet he is ranked #6 overall by JP, #4 by one guy and #5 by two others. That's what I'm referring to.

I see. I guess it is just difficult for me to say he is getting too much love on this board just because he is ~3 spots too high. Don't forget that at that tier there is a group of guys who are all pretty close and have similar value in my eyes so putting 1 before another is more personal preference than anything. Like I said in my earlier post, there are 2-3 guys who I feel are either toss-up's or very close to it.

 

[Couch Potato]

Rd 15 - Mike Walker. The starting WR's in Jacksonville are only moderatly rosterable at this point. Yet Walker has breakout potential? I'm not even sure where he is on the depth chart. WR4? 5? 6? a backup WR on a very run heavy team is a good pick why?

Granted I know Dynasty rosters are built to be able to grab and stash a guy, but I dont get the love for these two. I can't read a OAK RB or JAX WR thread without seeing both of these guys routinly touted on this board.

I am curious to hear what other players some here think are being overrated by this board/community.

The highlighted comments look like redraft comments. You said this was a dynasty draft. Gotta be visionary, gotta see value before it's obvious to the masses.When Walker is cranking out 80-1100-8 seasons beginning a couple years from now, that 15th round pick is going to look pretty cheap. Yes, he's going to be THAT good and he WILL be their go to guy once settled in a year or two from now.

 

[Buckna]

Been mentioned: Ryan Grant. Recently saw him go 2.2 in an intitial dynasty draft. That's a lot of risk to take on for your 2nd rounder. An undrafted rookie who only has half a season under his belt and lost his starting QB? This whole unretiring Farve mess going on too? He may very well turn in an excellent season, but there's too much risk there for me.

I love Andre Johnson, but he's gone from underrated to overrated (for fantasy) pretty quickly. I expect him to have a great season, but it seems most people are extrapolating out that hot start he had the first two games and thinking he can duplicate that for a whole season if he's healthy. He still played very well once he came back, but not as lights out as he did to start.

Braylon Edwards - love the kid and I traded for him in one league, but he caught 16 TD's on 80 balls. Only 14 times has a WR caught 16 or greater TD's. 23 times in history if I expand it to 15. That screams sell high to me.

I really don't get the massive amount of Bradshaw love around here either.

 

[Max Power]

Rd 15 - Mike Walker. The starting WR's in Jacksonville are only moderatly rosterable at this point. Yet Walker has breakout potential? I'm not even sure where he is on the depth chart. WR4? 5? 6? a backup WR on a very run heavy team is a good pick why?

Granted I know Dynasty rosters are built to be able to grab and stash a guy, but I dont get the love for these two. I can't read a OAK RB or JAX WR thread without seeing both of these guys routinly touted on this board.

I am curious to hear what other players some here think are being overrated by this board/community.

The highlighted comments look like redraft comments. You said this was a dynasty draft. Gotta be visionary, gotta see value before it's obvious to the masses.When Walker is cranking out 80-1100-8 seasons beginning a couple years from now, that 15th round pick is going to look pretty cheap. Yes, he's going to be THAT good and he WILL be their go to guy once settled in a year or two from now.

I'm curious as to what makes Walker so special? Jacksonville is not the place I want to be rostering WRs. For now and the near future. Garrard is average at best. Reggie Williams in my opinion has a boatload of talent and yet is a waste in jax. What is going to make Walker different?15th round is way to early. The guy probably wont break into WR60 numbers for another 2-3 season and is more likely to see the waiver wire before getting a fantasy start. Most owners I know think they can wait on a guy, but when a roster spot (in shallower leagues) isn't producing any points for a year or so, the guy hits the wire.

And what makes him better than the similar WR's taken 3-5 rounds later?

 

[SSOG]

Rd 15 - Mike Walker. The starting WR's in Jacksonville are only moderatly rosterable at this point. Yet Walker has breakout potential? I'm not even sure where he is on the depth chart. WR4? 5? 6? a backup WR on a very run heavy team is a good pick why?

Granted I know Dynasty rosters are built to be able to grab and stash a guy, but I dont get the love for these two. I can't read a OAK RB or JAX WR thread without seeing both of these guys routinly touted on this board.

I am curious to hear what other players some here think are being overrated by this board/community.

The highlighted comments look like redraft comments. You said this was a dynasty draft. Gotta be visionary, gotta see value before it's obvious to the masses.When Walker is cranking out 80-1100-8 seasons beginning a couple years from now, that 15th round pick is going to look pretty cheap. Yes, he's going to be THAT good and he WILL be their go to guy once settled in a year or two from now.

I'm curious as to what makes Walker so special? Jacksonville is not the place I want to be rostering WRs. For now and the near future. Garrard is average at best. Reggie Williams in my opinion has a boatload of talent and yet is a waste in jax. What is going to make Walker different?15th round is way to early. The guy probably wont break into WR60 numbers for another 2-3 season and is more likely to see the waiver wire before getting a fantasy start. Most owners I know think they can wait on a guy, but when a roster spot (in shallower leagues) isn't producing any points for a year or so, the guy hits the wire.

And what makes him better than the similar WR's taken 3-5 rounds later?

 

[Gottabesweet]

Ryan Torian, Jonathan Stewart, Veron Davis, Jamal Lewis

 

[Max Power]

Rd 15 - Mike Walker. The starting WR's in Jacksonville are only moderatly rosterable at this point. Yet Walker has breakout potential? I'm not even sure where he is on the depth chart. WR4? 5? 6? a backup WR on a very run heavy team is a good pick why?

Granted I know Dynasty rosters are built to be able to grab and stash a guy, but I dont get the love for these two. I can't read a OAK RB or JAX WR thread without seeing both of these guys routinly touted on this board.

I am curious to hear what other players some here think are being overrated by this board/community.

The highlighted comments look like redraft comments. You said this was a dynasty draft. Gotta be visionary, gotta see value before it's obvious to the masses.When Walker is cranking out 80-1100-8 seasons beginning a couple years from now, that 15th round pick is going to look pretty cheap. Yes, he's going to be THAT good and he WILL be their go to guy once settled in a year or two from now.

I'm curious as to what makes Walker so special? Jacksonville is not the place I want to be rostering WRs. For now and the near future. Garrard is average at best. Reggie Williams in my opinion has a boatload of talent and yet is a waste in jax. What is going to make Walker different?15th round is way to early. The guy probably wont break into WR60 numbers for another 2-3 season and is more likely to see the waiver wire before getting a fantasy start. Most owners I know think they can wait on a guy, but when a roster spot (in shallower leagues) isn't producing any points for a year or so, the guy hits the wire.

And what makes him better than the similar WR's taken 3-5 rounds later?

I stand by that comment... easily 2/3 of the starting QB's in this league could have produced similar numbers and wins. How good would we be calling Garrard if he played in Detroit, STL, or Miami last year? Until he is used as more than a game manager type QB, the guy is average in my eyes.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Rd 15 - Mike Walker. The starting WR's in Jacksonville are only moderatly rosterable at this point. Yet Walker has breakout potential? I'm not even sure where he is on the depth chart. WR4? 5? 6? a backup WR on a very run heavy team is a good pick why?

Granted I know Dynasty rosters are built to be able to grab and stash a guy, but I dont get the love for these two. I can't read a OAK RB or JAX WR thread without seeing both of these guys routinly touted on this board.

I am curious to hear what other players some here think are being overrated by this board/community.

The highlighted comments look like redraft comments. You said this was a dynasty draft. Gotta be visionary, gotta see value before it's obvious to the masses.When Walker is cranking out 80-1100-8 seasons beginning a couple years from now, that 15th round pick is going to look pretty cheap. Yes, he's going to be THAT good and he WILL be their go to guy once settled in a year or two from now.

oh man

 

[SSOG]

I stand by that comment... easily 2/3 of the starting QB's in this league could have produced similar numbers and wins. How good would we be calling Garrard if he played in Detroit, STL, or Miami last year? Until he is used as more than a game manager type QB, the guy is average in my eyes.

Only one player in the history of the NFL has had an INT% lower than Garrard's last year with at least 200 attempts. If he's a game manager, then he's the best game manager football has ever seen, which in and of itself makes him above-average. And this is ignoring his 100+ passer rating, and his 7.7 yards per attempt- 7th in the NFL. Hardly the statistic of a "game manager", I'd say. And his 12.1 yards per completion was FOURTH in the NFL, which meant he was throwing deep a higher percentage of the time than almost anyone. Pretty odd for a game manager, don't you think? This despite the fact that his leading receivers were Ernest Wilford, Dennis Northcutt, Maurice Jones-Drew, and Reggie Williams, in that order?Average? Please.Here were the top 8 players in yards per completion, in order: Derek Anderson, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, David Garrard, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Jay Cutler. Oh yeah, that's the type of company that you expect to find a "game manager" in alright.