White Elephant Rules/Discussion (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Pasquino]

I'm thinking we need to go back and look at the concept in general.

The "steal rule" was invented and re-invented last time after a ton of insanity.

The rule as it stands calmed things down some (such as only going back as far as your last pick, and locking guys, etc.)

I think we should consider the following:

Get a certain amount of steals. I think 3 or 4 sounds right.

If you are stolen from, you have a free steal.

In normal White Elephants, once you have someone steal your item for that round, you can either take a new item or steal someone else's (but no repeating). So if there are 5 items taken so far and #6 steals #2's item, the previous owner of #2 can either take a new item or steal items #1, #3, #4, or #5.

Basically, you can INITIATE stealing three times, but if you are stolen from you shouldn't have to pay a steal.

I'd still have to think about how far back you can reach for a steal.

I'd also have to spend some time on thinking of that dynamic (so as to not create any infinite loops or how to lock up a guy) but I think this change should be considered.

if you can steal for free if your pick was taken there would be too many steals to keep track of

I disagree.If you pick the best player available, odds are they get stolen before you're up again and you're able to steal - but planning to initiate a steal would then be more strategic.

As it stands now, the persons near the ends can plan on stealing for the first half of the draft as part of their draft plan.

This would decrease the amount of steals being started but probably would increase the strategy.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I'm thinking we need to go back and look at the concept in general.

The "steal rule" was invented and re-invented last time after a ton of insanity.

The rule as it stands calmed things down some (such as only going back as far as your last pick, and locking guys, etc.)

I think we should consider the following:

Get a certain amount of steals. I think 3 or 4 sounds right.

If you are stolen from, you have a free steal.

In normal White Elephants, once you have someone steal your item for that round, you can either take a new item or steal someone else's (but no repeating). So if there are 5 items taken so far and #6 steals #2's item, the previous owner of #2 can either take a new item or steal items #1, #3, #4, or #5.

Basically, you can INITIATE stealing three times, but if you are stolen from you shouldn't have to pay a steal.

I'd still have to think about how far back you can reach for a steal.

I'd also have to spend some time on thinking of that dynamic (so as to not create any infinite loops or how to lock up a guy) but I think this change should be considered.

That's fine when you are all together in one place, and can hold the item in your lap. The early rounds of this are hard enough to track...they would be IMPOSSIBLE with this proposal, as first round players would be stolen a dozen times each.Sounds workable

Disaster in the making

Not sure on the blue, but on the red.I think it would be more strategic if you could only initiate steals 3x rather that 5x, but could be involved in more steals if someone stole from you.

 

[renesauz]

Part of what makes a "real" white elephant work is that people don't all value the same items the same. But we pretty much all value LT as the consensus #1. Under your proposal, LT would then be stolen by just about everyone, before he finally settled out. Worse...everyone would have used only one steal (and been stolen from), so the Westbrooks, Addais, ADPs, would all get stolen a dozen times each as well, since folks would be using "free" steals on them.

 

[renesauz]

You just want to make my life even more difficult in tracking this thing.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Part of what makes a "real" white elephant work is that people don't all value the same items the same. But we pretty much all value LT as the consensus #1. Under your proposal, LT would then be stolen by just about everyone, before he finally settled out. Worse...everyone would have used only one steal (and been stolen from), so the Westbrooks, Addais, ADPs, would all get stolen a dozen times each as well, since folks would be using "free" steals on them.

I disagree.If you picked LT #1, for example - knowing that someone would steal him, you'd (A) force a steal to be used and (B) have a free steal coming to you at that point.The #4 person would still not steal LT#1 because it would waste their steal, because they still won't be keeping him.The #16 team still getst LT2 if he's the concensus #1, yes, but you now forced their hand and lowered their available steals.The value of this proposal is looking at the drafters between the ends (say 4-13). They either take BPA or steal, knowing that if they get stolen from they can get a free steal. I'd need more time to think on this, which I don't have today.

 

[Reaper]

Radballs: Steal Repick 5.01 Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Rookie

Nice... That was my fallback option if someone stole Thomas Jones...

 

[Reaper]

You know what would have been funny... Well not so much for me but...

If Radballs went:

STEAL Mendenhall

STEAL Thomas Jones

Then his pick.....

 

[Duckboy]

You know what would have been funny... Well not so much for me but...If Radballs went:STEAL MendenhallSTEAL Thomas JonesThen his pick.....

He can't; first steal is the only steal an end can use - then two fresh picks. Otherwise I would have had too much fun steal two guys.

 

[Pictus Cat]

Steal Repick 5.01 Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Rookie

6.16 Justin Fargas, RB, Oakland

7.01 Bobby Engram, WR, Seattle

PMing Pasquino and jeter

#### this bull####

and also why I suggested a bidding process for draft position, less steals for the end, and now to unveil my latest thought,:drumroll:

No stealing for 3 rounds after you steal (steal in the first then no steal until the 4th)

variations: could be 2 rounds and/or make-up steals ok, but still charged.

This would spread the steals around a little.

Another suggestion is rotate the draft order to make it more fair.

I still say the 3 spot isn't so great and doesn't deserve less steals....

The end spots I can see because they should never waste a steal.

One thing I was thinking was being able to steal once from one particular owner.

I agree. My suggestion was 3 for the ends, 4 for 2nd from the ends.

moved this from rds 5 & 6

 

[Pictus Cat]

You know what would have been funny... Well not so much for me but...If Radballs went:STEAL MendenhallSTEAL Thomas JonesThen his pick.....

He can't; first steal is the only steal an end can use - then two fresh picks. Otherwise I would have had too much fun steal two guys.

He would have had to steal Mendenhall before Thomas Jones was picked,So he could steal Thomas Jones later and lock him up with his pick after.

 

[Reaper]

You know what would have been funny... Well not so much for me but...If Radballs went:STEAL MendenhallSTEAL Thomas JonesThen his pick.....

He can't; first steal is the only steal an end can use - then two fresh picks. Otherwise I would have had too much fun steal two guys.

He would have had to steal Mendenhall before Thomas Jones was picked,So he could steal Thomas Jones later and lock him up with his pick after.

Right.. My bad.At least he ripped off Pasquino

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

You know what would have been funny... Well not so much for me but...If Radballs went:STEAL MendenhallSTEAL Thomas JonesThen his pick.....

He can't; first steal is the only steal an end can use - then two fresh picks. Otherwise I would have had too much fun steal two guys.

He would have had to steal Mendenhall before Thomas Jones was picked,So he could steal Thomas Jones later and lock him up with his pick after.

Right.. My bad.At least he ripped off Pasquino

:finger: to you as well, sir.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Ok Ollie,

I want to know wtf you were thinking with stealing Mendenhall - and then taking Fargas.

I don't get that at all.

You have 1 WR after 7 rounds. That's a death warrant in survivor.

Not that I'm upset that you've made that mistake (rather, I wish you nothing but the worst for this draft ) - but that doesn't make any sense at all.

Plus it's Chad Johnson, so some might say you don't have ANY WRs for 2007 .

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

8.03: Kevin Walter, WR, HOU

Now that's good steal prevention strategy - pick guys at least 4 rounds too early.

 

[Blue-Kun]

8.03: Kevin Walter, WR, HOU

Now that's good steal prevention strategy - pick guys at least 4 rounds too early.

Guy went in the 7th, 8th and 9th round in 3 WSL leagues. I'm at a loss to what other WR I'm missing out on that's so obvious. Don't worry though, I'll be sure to look out for any to steal if one of you has some particular revelation.

 

[radballs]

Ok Ollie,I want to know wtf you were thinking with stealing Mendenhall - and then taking Fargas.I don't get that at all.You have 1 WR after 7 rounds. That's a death warrant in survivor.Not that I'm upset that you've made that mistake (rather, I wish you nothing but the worst for this draft ) - but that doesn't make any sense at all.Plus it's Chad Johnson, so some might say you don't have ANY WRs for 2007 .

Yeah, if I could take it back, I probably would have put Engram in before Fargas just to lock up my WR2. No doubt my WRs will be challenged, but my RB core combined with the top QB and a top 5 TE will hopefully get me over the week to week scoring variability to survive for a while. We'll see. Not picking on you Jeff. Just your last couple picks have been the best steals that I thought I could make. Like someone else said earlier in the thread, just look at it as a compliment that I'm bending you ov... er, I mean, targeting some of your recent picks.

 

[radballs]

Ok Ollie,I want to know wtf you were thinking with stealing Mendenhall - and then taking Fargas.

Being on the end, I guess I was also thinking that the potential starting RBs that would make it back to me at the end of the 8, beginning of the 9th, would have been thin. Now, I think I have one of the better RB stables between LJ, Mendenhall, and Fargas. Just hope Mendenhall falls into a great situation.

 

[renesauz]

Not trying to , but I don't get the whine. I have been at the end, and fully understand/appreciate the advanatage of such....and the disadvantages. The guys at the end HAVE to use their steals early to get even close to early round value. If not, they will fall behiind very quickly. The only reason Radballs has a steal left is because he went with Brady at the 1.1 pick. We also see that he's in a bind at WR after having a couple of those taken. Played out wisely (few wasted steals), the guys at the end should be out or very low, and the guys in the middle should still have a bunch of steals.

From the end, if your seoncd pick gets stolen, it is almost two full rounds before you can safely take and lock another....meaning when the DB's 2.1 selection goes, he never had more then one player he could safely steal at any time UNTIL he was up for his 3.16...not a given to get second round value at that point, and IMPOSSIBLE without executing a steal. Then, he's FORCED to use a fresh pick for his 4.1, so cannot get any extraordinary value there. IE: While the ends have a natural advantage via the natural lock, they also have fewer/less strategy they CAN employ, and are far more vulnerable to position runs/etc. then in any other serpentine draft because they will be out of steals first.

The guys in the middle shouldn't be vulnerable to position runs, but have to be far more careful as to who/how they steal. There are never more then a couple guys we in the middle can safely steal on any given pick, but there are ALWAYS guys we can steal. We can ALWAYS get appropriate round value...and if wise, don't have to burn steals to do so. Later, we can make sure that the end guys get caught by position runs. We can, if we choose, make sure they lack a DEF2, or K2, or viable TE2. BUT WE HAVE TO BE PATIENT and that means not stealing a coveted player unless we're sure we can keep him. IN the first couple of rounds, that might also mean taking somebody other then the BPA (though we should never go very far down the list).

In short Jeff, you're whining just a little too much. You wasted/burned a couple of steals foolishly, and are the first to be out of them, when you should be among the last. If there was any lesson you should have remembered from last year it was this one: NEVER WASTE A STEAL.

I am NOT saying that it's better to be in the middle then the end...far from it. I do prefer the end..but no more so then preferring to be in the top 3 in a normal draft. Being in the center in WE is like being at the 15/16 in a normal draft. There is a disadvantage, but it isn't an overwhelming one as long as you're patient.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Not trying to , but I don't get the whine. I have been at the end, and fully understand/appreciate the advanatage of such....and the disadvantages. The guys at the end HAVE to use their steals early to get even close to early round value. If not, they will fall behiind very quickly. The only reason Radballs has a steal left is because he went with Brady at the 1.1 pick. We also see that he's in a bind at WR after having a couple of those taken. Played out wisely (few wasted steals), the guys at the end should be out or very low, and the guys in the middle should still have a bunch of steals.From the end, if your seoncd pick gets stolen, it is almost two full rounds before you can safely take and lock another....meaning when the DB's 2.1 selection goes, he never had more then one player he could safely steal at any time UNTIL he was up for his 3.16...not a given to get second round value at that point, and IMPOSSIBLE without executing a steal. Then, he's FORCED to use a fresh pick for his 4.1, so cannot get any extraordinary value there. IE: While the ends have a natural advantage via the natural lock, they also have fewer/less strategy they CAN employ, and are far more vulnerable to position runs/etc. then in any other serpentine draft because they will be out of steals first.The guys in the middle shouldn't be vulnerable to position runs, but have to be far more careful as to who/how they steal. There are never more then a couple guys we in the middle can safely steal on any given pick, but there are ALWAYS guys we can steal. We can ALWAYS get appropriate round value...and if wise, don't have to burn steals to do so. Later, we can make sure that the end guys get caught by position runs. We can, if we choose, make sure they lack a DEF2, or K2, or viable TE2. BUT WE HAVE TO BE PATIENT and that means not stealing a coveted player unless we're sure we can keep him. IN the first couple of rounds, that might also mean taking somebody other then the BPA (though we should never go very far down the list).In short Jeff, you're whining just a little too much. You wasted/burned a couple of steals foolishly, and are the first to be out of them, when you should be among the last. If there was any lesson you should have remembered from last year it was this one: NEVER WASTE A STEAL.I am NOT saying that it's better to be in the middle then the end...far from it. I do prefer the end..but no more so then preferring to be in the top 3 in a normal draft. Being in the center in WE is like being at the 15/16 in a normal draft. There is a disadvantage, but it isn't an overwhelming one as long as you're patient.

Being at #1 is much more like being at 15/16.As for wasting steals, I think you're dead wrong. I played my last steal perfectly, it's Radballs who played it improperly. Yes he should have stolen a player, but it should have been a WR - so my taking a player whom I thought was nearly 100% safe (since Jeter picked him already) made the most sense.I can live with not getting Mendenhall, but there shouldn't have been a steal there of a RB because I anticipated that he needed to steal a WR, not a RB.I didn't waste any steals at all - rather I used them to where I thought I would gain the best advantage. I now nearly have a starting lineup and now can just draft backups, which shouldn't alter my scores most weeks by more than 10-15%. I can live with steals at this point.IMHO you should be stealing earlier because that's where the best players are. Go ahead and save them beyond Round 8, because I'm sure that players 120+ are the difference makers.....

 

[Reaper]

Not trying to , but I don't get the whine. I have been at the end, and fully understand/appreciate the advanatage of such....and the disadvantages. The guys at the end HAVE to use their steals early to get even close to early round value. If not, they will fall behiind very quickly. The only reason Radballs has a steal left is because he went with Brady at the 1.1 pick. We also see that he's in a bind at WR after having a couple of those taken. Played out wisely (few wasted steals), the guys at the end should be out or very low, and the guys in the middle should still have a bunch of steals.From the end, if your seoncd pick gets stolen, it is almost two full rounds before you can safely take and lock another....meaning when the DB's 2.1 selection goes, he never had more then one player he could safely steal at any time UNTIL he was up for his 3.16...not a given to get second round value at that point, and IMPOSSIBLE without executing a steal. Then, he's FORCED to use a fresh pick for his 4.1, so cannot get any extraordinary value there. IE: While the ends have a natural advantage via the natural lock, they also have fewer/less strategy they CAN employ, and are far more vulnerable to position runs/etc. then in any other serpentine draft because they will be out of steals first.The guys in the middle shouldn't be vulnerable to position runs, but have to be far more careful as to who/how they steal. There are never more then a couple guys we in the middle can safely steal on any given pick, but there are ALWAYS guys we can steal. We can ALWAYS get appropriate round value...and if wise, don't have to burn steals to do so. Later, we can make sure that the end guys get caught by position runs. We can, if we choose, make sure they lack a DEF2, or K2, or viable TE2. BUT WE HAVE TO BE PATIENT and that means not stealing a coveted player unless we're sure we can keep him. IN the first couple of rounds, that might also mean taking somebody other then the BPA (though we should never go very far down the list).In short Jeff, you're whining just a little too much. You wasted/burned a couple of steals foolishly, and are the first to be out of them, when you should be among the last. If there was any lesson you should have remembered from last year it was this one: NEVER WASTE A STEAL.I am NOT saying that it's better to be in the middle then the end...far from it. I do prefer the end..but no more so then preferring to be in the top 3 in a normal draft. Being in the center in WE is like being at the 15/16 in a normal draft. There is a disadvantage, but it isn't an overwhelming one as long as you're patient.

Being at #1 is much more like being at 15/16.As for wasting steals, I think you're dead wrong. I played my last steal perfectly, it's Radballs who played it improperly. Yes he should have stolen a player, but it should have been a WR - so my taking a player whom I thought was nearly 100% safe (since Jeter picked him already) made the most sense.I can live with not getting Mendenhall, but there shouldn't have been a steal there of a RB because I anticipated that he needed to steal a WR, not a RB.I didn't waste any steals at all - rather I used them to where I thought I would gain the best advantage. I now nearly have a starting lineup and now can just draft backups, which shouldn't alter my scores most weeks by more than 10-15%. I can live with steals at this point.IMHO you should be stealing earlier because that's where the best players are. Go ahead and save them beyond Round 8, because I'm sure that players 120+ are the difference makers.....

I thought Jeter was going to steal Thomas Jones and then I was going to steal Mendenhall.....I think I guilted Jeter enough into leaving me alone.Also - about stealing earlier - Not sure I agree - It depends on how it plays out but, steals will be used on runs... Of course the initial RB run is the biggest butm if you're in aspot to lock in a decent RB without using a steal then more power to ya...If it's round 8 and you need a TE and there's great TE value left then I think that could be a damn good save of a steal same for QB, or even backups....

 

[renesauz]

From my own experiance, it seems these things can be lost in the early rounds, mostly by bad luck (too many early picks injured, etc.), but are usually won in the middle to late rounds by hitting on the RIGHT SLEEPERS. By saving your steals, you make it much easier to get your favorite sleepers.

 

[Pickle Rody]

If I recall correctly (and my memory is a little spotty at best) in '06 my team from MBSL (only my second message board survivor team ever) lasted until week 13 or 14. No real studs in the first 5 - 6 rounds. Just solid picks rounds 8 - 14. Most of which were back-ups. Those guys propelled my team through the first 6 weeks of the season. Without them, my team would have crumbled early. These picks here in the 8th through the 14th will really determine how far a team survives. That and a little luck!!

Frankly, I'm happy I have a couple steals left. At least one of which I can use to replenish a pick if it is swiped.

 

[Fiddles]

i made it to the final 3 in this without using any steals last year

 

[Pictus Cat]

WE Champion steals 07

17.09 Pictus Cat(4): STEAL Brandon Lloyd, WAS, WR83STEAL

18.06 Pictus Cat(3): STEAL Jeff Reed, PIT, PK21STEAL

19.09 Pictus Cat(2): STEALSt. Louis Rams, DST20STEAL

Not afraid to take a chance on wasting them this year after last years brilliant deployment.

 

[Fiddles]

WE Champion steals 07

17.09 Pictus Cat(4): STEAL Brandon Lloyd, WAS, WR83STEAL

18.06 Pictus Cat(3): STEAL Jeff Reed, PIT, PK21STEAL

19.09 Pictus Cat(2): STEALSt. Louis Rams, DST20STEAL

Not afraid to take a chance on wasting them this year after last years brilliant deployment.

interesting

 

[radballs]

I played my last steal perfectly, it's Radballs who played it improperly. Yes he should have stolen a player, but it should have been a WR - so my taking a player whom I thought was nearly 100% safe (since Jeter picked him already) made the most sense.

I can live with not getting Mendenhall, but there shouldn't have been a steal there of a RB because I anticipated that he needed to steal a WR, not a RB.

I didn't waste any steals at all - rather I used them to where I thought I would gain the best advantage. I now nearly have a starting lineup and now can just draft backups, which shouldn't alter my scores most weeks by more than 10-15%. I can live with steals at this point.

How did I play it improperly? Mendenhall was the highest rated stealable player on my board. So, I stole him. Why would I steal a WR when none of the ones available to be stolen were much better than Engram? Now, I possibly should have taken Engram before Fargas to lock him in. But, I don't see how I made a bad choice with the steal itself.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I played my last steal perfectly, it's Radballs who played it improperly. Yes he should have stolen a player, but it should have been a WR - so my taking a player whom I thought was nearly 100% safe (since Jeter picked him already) made the most sense.

I can live with not getting Mendenhall, but there shouldn't have been a steal there of a RB because I anticipated that he needed to steal a WR, not a RB.

I didn't waste any steals at all - rather I used them to where I thought I would gain the best advantage. I now nearly have a starting lineup and now can just draft backups, which shouldn't alter my scores most weeks by more than 10-15%. I can live with steals at this point.

How did I play it improperly? Mendenhall was the highest rated stealable player on my board. So, I stole him. Why would I steal a WR when none of the ones available to be stolen were much better than Engram? Now, I possibly should have taken Engram before Fargas to lock him in. But, I don't see how I made a bad choice with the steal itself.

Locking in a WR2 should have been a priority for you, IMHO.RB2s are easier to come by.

 

[Pictus Cat]

I understand the frustration by having players stolen, but a couple of things come to mind.

1. We all knew the rules when starting this draft, meaning players could be stolen.

2. Being in round 7/8 at this point, if I hadn't had a few players stolen, that says a lot about my draft.

Not being able to turn the corner quickly doesn't help matters either (*cough* West Coast Radballs *cough*)

A bid WE would be interesting to see where people would want to be in a WE draft. Near a fast corner would be advantageous.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I'm looking for a volunteer - it would be interesting to see the ADP from the 4 PDSLs and compare it to this draft (meaning when rosters are done, how did you fare for shopping for ADP).

Thoughts? Volunteers?

 

[Duckboy]

I'm looking for a volunteer - it would be interesting to see the ADP from the 4 PDSLs and compare it to this draft (meaning when rosters are done, how did you fare for shopping for ADP).

Thoughts? Volunteers?

Sounds good. Sure.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

Help!

Received a pm from Pictus with his next two pics and BK's pick as well. Not sure why he pm'd me with the picks (he was up)?

What to do?

Have I the next four picks...........our should I wait?

League input appreciated.

ETA: received a second requested to post his picks (cell phone). BK can make his own now,....no?

 

[Blue-Kun]

Help!Received a pm from Pictus with his next two pics and BK's pick as well. Not sure why he pm'd me with the picks (he was up)? What to do? Have I the next four picks...........our should I wait?League input appreciated.

Post them? It's possible he was just on his celly or something and making a post would've been a pain.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

Help!Received a pm from Pictus with his next two pics and BK's pick as well. Not sure why he pm'd me with the picks (he was up)? What to do? Have I the next four picks...........our should I wait?League input appreciated.

Post them? It's possible he was just on his celly or something and making a post would've been a pain.

Got it...you are up shortly!

 

[Pictus Cat]

Help!Received a pm from Pictus with his next two pics and BK's pick as well. Not sure why he pm'd me with the picks (he was up)? What to do? Have I the next four picks...........our should I wait?League input appreciated.

Post them? It's possible he was just on his celly or something and making a post would've been a pain.

Got it...you are up shortly!

Oddly, I can't post from my cell, but can follow the draft lo fi and PM. Maybe I'll get a better one in 09 when my contract is up. Thank you for taking my PMs and helping me not hold up the draft.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I'm looking for a volunteer - it would be interesting to see the ADP from the 4 PDSLs and compare it to this draft (meaning when rosters are done, how did you fare for shopping for ADP).

Thoughts? Volunteers?

Sounds good. Sure.

LMK if you need help. This should make for a good article / blog for the site as well.

 

[Reaper]

I think you can wait it out if you wish.

 

[Duckboy]

I'm looking for a volunteer - it would be interesting to see the ADP from the 4 PDSLs and compare it to this draft (meaning when rosters are done, how did you fare for shopping for ADP).

Thoughts? Volunteers?

Sounds good. Sure.

LMK if you need help. This should make for a good article / blog for the site as well.

I'll be putting a list together this weekend of the players similar to what SD is for the PDSLs. Number crunching easy, analysis and what to take from there could be veeeeeerrrrrryyyyyy interesting.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Ok - Here's why it's not cool to allow an intentional timeout.

If you take a timeout on your first pick (aka "pulling a Vikings" or "Z'ing your pick") in the hopes of taking 2 in a row, you're screwing the other guys in the draft.

Basically if you don't pick, you don't put a name on the board that can be stolen.

Sure, that name may pop up after your pick, but at least then it can't be victimized by a steal.

By timing out intentionally you are minimizing the availability of your first pick to zero, meaning that once you pick x2 the first one will auto-lock.

That's the advantage.

Now, with less steals across the board, it doesn't seem too likely, but it still could happen.

 

[renesauz]

The player X rule covered tihs scenario for the early rounds, where it made a bigger difference.

Considering he's at pick 15, and it's a DST, obviously this isn't a huge deal from a PRACTICAL aspect....but it does open up a loophole in the rules.

I like how it was handled...it was right to simply post his first. If it's stolen, it's stolen.

I would have to say that intentionaly "passing" is akin to intentionally timing out, and can't be allowed.

 

[Duckboy]

The player X rule covered tihs scenario for the early rounds, where it made a bigger difference.Considering he's at pick 15, and it's a DST, obviously this isn't a huge deal from a PRACTICAL aspect....but it does open up a loophole in the rules.I like how it was handled...it was right to simply post his first. If it's stolen, it's stolen.I would have to say that intentionaly "passing" is akin to intentionally timing out, and can't be allowed.

Thanks for the ruling. Mine will be up in a bit.

 

[Pictus Cat]

The player X rule covered tihs scenario for the early rounds, where it made a bigger difference.Considering he's at pick 15, and it's a DST, obviously this isn't a huge deal from a PRACTICAL aspect....but it does open up a loophole in the rules.I like how it was handled...it was right to simply post his first. If it's stolen, it's stolen.I would have to say that intentionaly "passing" is akin to intentionally timing out, and can't be allowed.

Thanks for the ruling. Mine will be up in a bit.

Intentionally and unintentionally could get sticky. I suggested some options in the draft thread. There must be pain.

One way to discourage timeouts is have it cost a steal or if you're out, your last and second to last pick can be stolen.Voluntary timeouts will change the WE,do we want it to change that way?

 

[Duckboy]

The player X rule covered tihs scenario for the early rounds, where it made a bigger difference.Considering he's at pick 15, and it's a DST, obviously this isn't a huge deal from a PRACTICAL aspect....but it does open up a loophole in the rules.I like how it was handled...it was right to simply post his first. If it's stolen, it's stolen.I would have to say that intentionaly "passing" is akin to intentionally timing out, and can't be allowed.

Thanks for the ruling. Mine will be up in a bit.

Intentionally and unintentionally could get sticky. I suggested some options in the draft thread. There must be pain.

One way to discourage timeouts is have it cost a steal or if you're out, your last and second to last pick can be stolen.Voluntary timeouts will change the WE,do we want it to change that way?

Agreed. Would be easy to be harsh and just timeout the regular way. At least have to give him credit for trying to work around it.

 

[renesauz]

No need to have a penalty in this case, as their was no real harm done, and no rule technicly broken.

I would say that to intentionally pass is the same as timing out, and would result in having your time halved after all steals were gone.

He gained no significant practical advantage in this case (since he was at pick 15 anyway, with a very short corner)....so I don't see any real reason to do anything further right now.

It's something we should look closer at for future WE's, obviously.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

There must be pain.

:(

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Looks like most things are settling out... only 20% of the steals (16 of 80) are left, with everyone at 2 or fewer and most at 1 or 0.....

 

[Fiddles]

Looks like most things are settling out... only 20% of the steals (16 of 80) are left, with everyone at 2 or fewer and most at 1 or 0.....

im usin my 2 to steal both your kickers

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Looks like most things are settling out... only 20% of the steals (16 of 80) are left, with everyone at 2 or fewer and most at 1 or 0.....

im usin my 2 to steal both your kickers