Who are the obvious BUSTS this year (1 Viewer)

[The Man with the Plan]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Peyton Manning- His left tackle and best offensive lineman is gone. That's a huge loss. His numbers will suffer plus I got a feeling that we might see that consecutive games streak come to an end this season.

 

[corpcow]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

 

[gianmarco]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

 

[Jayrod]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Do you have a lot of people in your leagues that check out this site or something?These comments remind me of the fake top 200 list.

 

[shadyridr]

Peyton Manning- His left tackle and best offensive lineman is gone. That's a huge loss. His numbers will suffer plus I got a feeling that we might see that consecutive games streak come to an end this season.

Hmm this is actually a solid choice pick. He might not be a bust but he could slip out of the top 5 QBs with the loss of Glenn.

 

[BGP]

There seems to be a high correlation between bad o-lines and RB busts. I'm going to keep my eye on the lines this offseason, especially injuries that may have a big impact.

Great point That is a common factor in all 3 OBVIOUS busts I listed in my post

I've been saying that for years lol. Every year I implore the Browns to draft OL.

I'm sure that thought never crossed their mind...just yours

I dunno, I had some FBG experts telling me the Browns should draft QB-WR in the first two rounds.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Do you have a lot of people in your leagues that check out this site or something?These comments remind me of the fake top 200 list.

Excuse me. Was Deuce McAllister cut from the Saints? Did Laurence Maroney put up some top-10 season that I've never heard of? Did Willis McGahee suddenly raise his career rushing average from 3.7? Did he finally learn to catch anything but a cold? Funny that I'm just hearing about these things. Oh wait that stuff didn't happen. While this is fantasy football being played the reality of the situation is that neither of those three players are all that. And I don't see much reason that'll change now. If you do please let me know.

 

[BGP]

Jamal Lewis. Not a high round pick but still, I don't like his prospects in Cleveland. Also, I don't think McGahee will play to his ADP, though he shouldn't be a complete bust.

From what I'm reading on a lot of sites the Browns o-line was the main thier main focus and is one of the better group of linemen the have had in several years. Are you thinking that o-line is still bad or that Lewis is wearing down and will not be effective?

Jamal Lewis is not being selected with a high pick by any fantasy GM as far as I can tell. Is ANYONE resting their FFL fortunes on this guy? If not, its rather hard for him to be a bust. He's a guy that you roll the dice on at some point, but it doesn't kill you if he doesn't play well. He shouldn't be your stater.

 

[Jayrod]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Do you have a lot of people in your leagues that check out this site or something?These comments remind me of the fake top 200 list.

Excuse me. Was Deuce McAllister cut from the Saints? Did Laurence Maroney put up some top-10 season that I've never heard of? Did Willis McGahee suddenly raise his career rushing average from 3.7? Did he finally learn to catch anything but a cold? Funny that I'm just hearing about these things. Oh wait that stuff didn't happen. While this is fantasy football being played the reality of the situation is that neither of those three players are all that. And I don't see much reason that'll change now. If you do please let me know.

It was your comments that were funny, not your selections. Each of those guys are actually decent selections for certain reasons. You just didn't give us any.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Okay. Let's play a game of Q&AQuestion: Who had more yards last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (1377 to 1302)

Question: Who had more touchdowns last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (15 to 8)

Question: Who had a higher average per rush? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (5.7 to 3.6)

Question: Who had a higher average per reception? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (9.5 to 8.4)

We've established that Maurice Jones-Drew scored more touchdowns and had more total yards than Reggie Bush(while only playing in 14 games by the by). He also had a higher average running as well as receiving the football than Reggie Bush.

So would you explain to me what is so funny about me saying that MJD is a better player than Reggie Bush when in terms of production he's exceeded (greatly in some cases) him in virtually every category(at least every category that counts)? For what it's worth Reggie Bush catches more dump-off passes though. Yay.

There's perception and then there's reality. Often they are two different entities. Hopefully people will see the truth for what it is and not what television tells them to.

 

[shadyridr]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Okay. Let's play a game of Q&AQuestion: Who had more yards last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (1377 to 1302)

Question: Who had more touchdowns last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (15 to 8)

Question: Who had a higher average per rush? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (5.7 to 3.6)

Question: Who had a higher average per reception? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (9.5 to 8.4)

We've established that Maurice Jones-Drew scored more touchdowns and had more total yards than Reggie Bush(while only playing in 14 games by the by). He also had a higher average running as well as receiving the football than Reggie Bush.

So would you explain to me what is so funny about me saying that MJD is a better player than Reggie Bush when in terms of production he's exceeded (greatly in some cases) him in virtually every category(at least every category that counts)? For what it's worth Reggie Bush catches more dump-off passes though. Yay.

There's perception and then there's reality. Often they are two different entities. Hopefully people will see the truth for what it is and not what television tells them to.

You shouldve mentioned all that stuff in your first post instead of the blanket statement you made.

 

[corpcow]

Peyton Manning- His left tackle and best offensive lineman is gone. That's a huge loss. His numbers will suffer plus I got a feeling that we might see that consecutive games streak come to an end this season.

Hmm this is actually a solid choice pick. He might not be a bust but he could slip out of the top 5 QBs with the loss of Glenn.

I'd say he still ends up in the top 5, but that doesn't mean he isn't overvalued (before or after losing Glenn). Losing a consistent Pro-Bowl LT is not a good thing no matter how you slice it.What I would be especially concerned about are TEs and RBs who have to fill in for extra protection. This may impact Addai's numbers (he was considered an excellent blocker coming out last year). I don't recall if Clark and/or Utecht are good or great blockers, but there could be a drain on them too.

But ultimately this team is built around Peyton, so he'll get his numbers. 50 TDs, no, and probably not good value, but I don't think he'll be a "bust".

 

[BigJim®]

Wow, lots of votes for MJD. He's nowhere near my bust list.

 

[-Crippler-]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Okay. Let's play a game of Q&AQuestion: Who had more yards last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (1377 to 1302)

Question: Who had more touchdowns last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (15 to 8)

Question: Who had a higher average per rush? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (5.7 to 3.6)

Question: Who had a higher average per reception? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (9.5 to 8.4)

We've established that Maurice Jones-Drew scored more touchdowns and had more total yards than Reggie Bush(while only playing in 14 games by the by). He also had a higher average running as well as receiving the football than Reggie Bush.

So would you explain to me what is so funny about me saying that MJD is a better player than Reggie Bush when in terms of production he's exceeded (greatly in some cases) him in virtually every category(at least every category that counts)? For what it's worth Reggie Bush catches more dump-off passes though. Yay.

There's perception and then there's reality. Often they are two different entities. Hopefully people will see the truth for what it is and not what television tells them to.

1 season of stats does not determine if MJD > Bush as a player.Care to compare return yards, return TDs, catches, recieving yards, college careers, Wins as a team, etc?

...didnt think so

 

[Neo]

Wow, lots of votes for MJD. He's nowhere near my bust list.

I thought I was the only one.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Okay. Let's play a game of Q&AQuestion: Who had more yards last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (1377 to 1302)

Question: Who had more touchdowns last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (15 to 8)

Question: Who had a higher average per rush? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (5.7 to 3.6)

Question: Who had a higher average per reception? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (9.5 to 8.4)

We've established that Maurice Jones-Drew scored more touchdowns and had more total yards than Reggie Bush(while only playing in 14 games by the by). He also had a higher average running as well as receiving the football than Reggie Bush.

So would you explain to me what is so funny about me saying that MJD is a better player than Reggie Bush when in terms of production he's exceeded (greatly in some cases) him in virtually every category(at least every category that counts)? For what it's worth Reggie Bush catches more dump-off passes though. Yay.

There's perception and then there's reality. Often they are two different entities. Hopefully people will see the truth for what it is and not what television tells them to.

1 season of stats does not determine if MJD > Bush as a player.Care to compare return yards, return TDs, catches, recieving yards, college careers, Wins as a team, etc?

...didnt think so

I don't need 1 season of stats to prove that MJD is a better player. He did all of his damage in only 14 games. Believe what you want but it certainly doesn't make him a worse player than Reggie Bush.Maurice Jones-Drew had 873 return yards in 2006 to Reggie Bush's 216. They both scored 1 return TD each last season. So in addition to being a better runner and receiver than Reggie Bush he's also a better returner.

Reggie Bush had more receiving yards than MJD this is true (742 to 436). Of course he had nearly twice as many chances to catch the football(88 to 46). Efficiency though is the name of the game and as I showed in my earlier post MJD has a higher receiving average than Reggie Bush so he's a better receiver than he is.

I'm not sure what college careers have to do with comparing players in the NFL? Oh yeah that's right. It has absolutely nothing to do with comparing players in the NFL. Though to be honest I would how things would have taken place if MJD played for USC and Reggie Bush had played for the mediocre program at UCLA. Oh well what's done is done. I won't dwell on the past and neither should you.

The Saints won all of 10 games in the NFC last season (AKA JV league). The Jaguars won 8 games in the much better AFC in 2006. So at worst the two teams are equal. In order of comparing individual players by their teams win total I'd say it's a wash.

Let's not forget who the quarterbacks were of those two teams. Drew Brees vs Byron Leftwich/David Garrard. If I had to pick one I think I'd take Drew Brees but that's just me.

It's utterly mind boggling to me how a player (MJD) can be better than a similar player (Bush) in every way imaginable yet be considered inferior. That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I need to watch some more ESPN or play some more Madden or something.

 

[switz]

Anyway, who in the first 2 rounds has all the warning signs to bust this year and at the end of the year we will look back and say "Duh, of course he was gonna be a bust because of..."?

Well, if you are looking for knocks on players generally going in the first round:LT - if you are looking for last year's performance, but he's still the safest 1st rounder IMOLJ - his team is in shambles, and he's holding out, and Holmes looks like he'll at least see the fieldGore - the injuries and loss of Turner would worry me a little

 

[ImTheScientist]

Wow, lots of votes for MJD. He's nowhere near my bust list.

I thought I was the only one.

MJD gets put on my bust list one day and then put on my must draft the next...... Guess I'll see where he is on draft day. If I knew he would get 200 carries and 50-70 receptions I would draft him @ 2.04 (12 team league) but I just don't know if he will see that many touches. Im also concerned about his TD production....I don't know if he can keep it up.

 

[shadyridr]

What is MJD's current ADP?

 

[switz]

I don't need 1 season of stats to prove that MJD is a better player. He did all of his damage in only 14 games. Believe what you want but it certainly doesn't make him a worse player than Reggie Bush.Maurice Jones-Drew had 873 return yards in 2006 to Reggie Bush's 216. They both scored 1 return TD each last season. So in addition to being a better runner and receiver than Reggie Bush he's also a better returner. Reggie Bush had more receiving yards than MJD this is true (742 to 436). Of course he had nearly twice as many chances to catch the football(88 to 46). Efficiency though is the name of the game and as I showed in my earlier post MJD has a higher receiving average than Reggie Bush so he's a better receiver than he is.It's utterly mind boggling to me how a player (MJD) can be better than a similar player (Bush) in every way imaginable yet be considered inferior. That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I need to watch some more ESPN or play some more Madden or something.

Oh come on - you're being ingenuous at best...As everyone knows, punt return yards are much more difficult to gain the kick return yards -Bush had 28 PRs 216Yds 1TDMJD had 1PR 13Yds 0TDIf MJD is such a better punt returner, why didn't they use him more there????????As for kick returns -Bush had zeroMJD had 31 KRs 860Yds 1TDKick returners are much easier to find than punt returners, as shown by the leading KR average (26.8) being over TWICE the leading PR average (12.8).So you discount Bush's receiving yards because he had more receptions, but don't disregard MJDs Return yards despite them being gained in an easier aspect of the game on top of him having more attempts?I don't understand the need of MJD owners to keep trying to tout him as so much better than other players. I just don't get it.As for receiving:52% of MJDs receptions occurred behind the line, compared to 50% of Bush's receptions from behind the line. However, Bush's 2 TDs came from passes behind the line, as well as his longest reception.Both of them for passes thrown between 1 and 10 yards in the air, have similar YPRs. No way of knowing then if they caught the ball and were tackled immediately, or if it was a 1 yard shovel pass that they individually turned into 8 yard gains.Bush had two passes between 11 and 20 yards, and his YPR on those is over 20 yards, a good indication he caught the ball in stride and made additional YAC. MJD had only one pass between 11-20 yards, though he turned it into a 51 yard TD. Again, no way of knowing the situation on the play, etc.I think quite honestly, it would be very difficult to say MJD was a better receiver based on his YPR. Especially since it's not significantly better than Bush's in any area.On the other hand, since MJD was on the field most passing downs as the 3rd down RB and didn't see as many receptions as Bush might indicate Bush is the better receiver, especially considering the dearth of receiving options JAX has, and the welath of options NO has. Also, why didn't MJD see more passes down the field, like Bush did?Maybe drops would be a measurement to see who is the better receiver? Bush had 8 out of his 88, MJD 4 out of 46... wow, about the same.So, can someone definitively say one or the other is better? No. The only implication is the fact that Bush was used by the team much more as a receiver. That implies he's a better WR, but it's not enough. As for stats, they are remarkably similar, both these RBs are good receiving out of the backfield. MJD is not as good of a route runner, I don't think anyone would even try to argue that.So the next question is, why does it matter?Bush isn't getting drafted because people think he's so much better, but because he's in a better situation.

 

[kensat30]

Both Bush and MJD are going to be busts.

Seriously, since when did everyone decide that backup RBs who catch a lot of passes are late first/early 2nd round material?

 

[switz]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Reasons not to like MJD -#1

He is behind a starter who is not likely to give carries away to him barring injury. In only ONE game when Taylor was healthy did MJD see more carries, and that was early in the season, so it's not like they began to spell Taylor more and more with MJD over the season.

Does this apply to Bush? No. Bush's performance is independent of how much McAllister plays. Bush did see one game where he had more carries on McAllister, but Bush does not need to rush more than McAllister to see a large number of touches.

Thus, this reason applies to MJD and NOT to Bush.

#2

MJD's numbers were extremely dependent on a high, likely unsustainable YPC. In fact, to support that this YPC is unsustainable, I present the last three games of the season where he started instead of Taylor (3.8, 6.9, 3.9). Interestingly, the 6.9 was due to a 74 yard run where NE defenders thought the play was dead and didn't even attempt to tackle him. Outside of that play his YPC was a whopping 3.2.

Bush puts up solid numbers despite a poor YPC which improved over the course of the year. His last three games? 4.8, 4.3, 6.7

Thus, this reason applies to MJD and NOT to Bush.

#3

MJD's numbers were dependent on a high number of TDs. I posted elsewhere the number of players per season in the last 5 that have scored 13 TDs. It's rare.

Bush's numbers were not dependent on a high number of tDs, 6 rushing, 2 receiving.

Thus, this reason applies to MJD and NOT to Bush.

#4

MJD far exceeded expectations, and regressed toward the end of the year.

Bush far underperformed expectations, and showed improvement toward the end of the season.

Thus, this reason applies to MJD and NOT to Bush.

- So, the same reasons don't apply to both at all.

 

[switz]

Both Bush and MJD are going to be busts.Seriously, since when did everyone decide that backup RBs who catch a lot of passes are late first/early 2nd round material?

 

[Sweat Hog]

Easy one - LT2 - only because he's the only top 10 RB not mentioned in this post yet....

 

[switz]

Easy one - LT2 - only because he's the only top 10 RB not mentioned in this post yet....

I mentioned him

 

[Sweat Hog]

Easy one - LT2 - only because he's the only top 10 RB not mentioned in this post yet....

I mentioned him

Sorry switz - I only read the first page of ridiculous posts. Some serious paralysis by over analysis going on.

 

[playsccr]

its interesting that no one has said benson, im very very high on this guy and i guess it just reaffirms my feelings...but i was surprised not to see his name mentioned i dont think>??

 

[Chadstroma]

Randy MossOlder - ability is on the downturnAttitude Problems that NE won't tolerateLots of attention from defenses - especially with a Maroney injury

I agree here. I would avoid Moss. The offense and his strengths are at odds with one another. Moss has pretty much only had success in running down the field outside the hash marks and having the ball heaved up to him where his speed, size, and athletic ability allowed him to go up and get the ball from pretty much any DB. The Patriot offense has always had a strong reliance on routes being run well and allowing the defense to dictate where the ball went, in fact, that is the biggest strength that Brady has. He dumps the ball off to where he can- that by itself is a reason to expect Moss to have a low year vs expectations. The Patriots brought in other WR's and Brady loved to spread the ball around but further than that- Brady does not have the strongest arm in the league and chucking it up to Moss does not seem to something he could do with regular success. I am sure the offense will play to Moss's ability and be changed somewhat to take advantage of his talent but it will not revolve around him.

 

[Sabertooth]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Peyton Manning- His left tackle and best offensive lineman is gone. That's a huge loss. His numbers will suffer plus I got a feeling that we might see that consecutive games streak come to an end this season.

1st round draft pick in 2006, so......

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Peyton Manning- His left tackle and best offensive lineman is gone. That's a huge loss. His numbers will suffer plus I got a feeling that we might see that consecutive games streak come to an end this season.

1st round draft pick in 2006, so......

And? I don't care where he was drafted. He was a rookie who didn't do much in his 1st season. And now all of a sudden he's a first round pick in fantasy football? Why? Because he plays for the Patriots? Since when did New England become Denver? I'll let somebody else waste a pick on him.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

I don't need 1 season of stats to prove that MJD is a better player. He did all of his damage in only 14 games. Believe what you want but it certainly doesn't make him a worse player than Reggie Bush.

Maurice Jones-Drew had 873 return yards in 2006 to Reggie Bush's 216. They both scored 1 return TD each last season. So in addition to being a better runner and receiver than Reggie Bush he's also a better returner.

Reggie Bush had more receiving yards than MJD this is true (742 to 436). Of course he had nearly twice as many chances to catch the football(88 to 46). Efficiency though is the name of the game and as I showed in my earlier post MJD has a higher receiving average than Reggie Bush so he's a better receiver than he is.

It's utterly mind boggling to me how a player (MJD) can be better than a similar player (Bush) in every way imaginable yet be considered inferior. That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I need to watch some more ESPN or play some more Madden or something.

Oh come on - you're being ingenuous at best...As everyone knows, punt return yards are much more difficult to gain the kick return yards -

Bush had 28 PRs 216Yds 1TD

MJD had 1PR 13Yds 0TD

If MJD is such a better punt returner, why didn't they use him more there????????

As for kick returns -

Bush had zero

MJD had 31 KRs 860Yds 1TD

Kick returners are much easier to find than punt returners, as shown by the leading KR average (26.8) being over TWICE the leading PR average (12.8).

So you discount Bush's receiving yards because he had more receptions, but don't disregard MJDs Return yards despite them being gained in an easier aspect of the game on top of him having more attempts?

I don't understand the need of MJD owners to keep trying to tout him as so much better than other players. I just don't get it.

As for receiving:

52% of MJDs receptions occurred behind the line, compared to 50% of Bush's receptions from behind the line. However, Bush's 2 TDs came from passes behind the line, as well as his longest reception.

Both of them for passes thrown between 1 and 10 yards in the air, have similar YPRs. No way of knowing then if they caught the ball and were tackled immediately, or if it was a 1 yard shovel pass that they individually turned into 8 yard gains.

Bush had two passes between 11 and 20 yards, and his YPR on those is over 20 yards, a good indication he caught the ball in stride and made additional YAC. MJD had only one pass between 11-20 yards, though he turned it into a 51 yard TD. Again, no way of knowing the situation on the play, etc.

I think quite honestly, it would be very difficult to say MJD was a better receiver based on his YPR. Especially since it's not significantly better than Bush's in any area.

On the other hand, since MJD was on the field most passing downs as the 3rd down RB and didn't see as many receptions as Bush might indicate Bush is the better receiver, especially considering the dearth of receiving options JAX has, and the welath of options NO has. Also, why didn't MJD see more passes down the field, like Bush did?

Maybe drops would be a measurement to see who is the better receiver? Bush had 8 out of his 88, MJD 4 out of 46... wow, about the same.

So, can someone definitively say one or the other is better? No. The only implication is the fact that Bush was used by the team much more as a receiver. That implies he's a better WR, but it's not enough. As for stats, they are remarkably similar, both these RBs are good receiving out of the backfield. MJD is not as good of a route runner, I don't think anyone would even try to argue that.

So the next question is, why does it matter?

Bush isn't getting drafted because people think he's so much better, but because he's in a better situation.

You can make all the excuses that you want for Reggie Bush. The fact of the matter is that at the end of the day Maurice Jones-Drew is better than Reggie Bush in every way, shape, and form. Discount the fact that he was a better and more efficient player all you want that's okay but they aren't equal. Not even close. It's okay though some people have to learn the hard way. Drafting Reggie Bush too early should be a good enough lesson for people.

 

[Judge Smails]

Man, every possible RB is getting trashed outside of obvious 1/2 LT/SJax. Who the heck do any of you draft 3-4?

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Man, every possible RB is getting trashed outside of obvious 1/2 LT/SJax. Who the heck do any of you draft 3-4?

Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Brian Westbrook. Don't be discouraged there are good running backs out there.

 

[Judge Smails]

Man, every possible RB is getting trashed outside of obvious 1/2 LT/SJax. Who the heck do any of you draft 3-4?

Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Brian Westbrook. Don't be discouraged there are good running backs out there.

Gore/Parker/LJ getting trashed more than anybody in this thread..

 

[switz]

I don't need 1 season of stats to prove that MJD is a better player. He did all of his damage in only 14 games. Believe what you want but it certainly doesn't make him a worse player than Reggie Bush.

Maurice Jones-Drew had 873 return yards in 2006 to Reggie Bush's 216. They both scored 1 return TD each last season. So in addition to being a better runner and receiver than Reggie Bush he's also a better returner.

Reggie Bush had more receiving yards than MJD this is true (742 to 436). Of course he had nearly twice as many chances to catch the football(88 to 46). Efficiency though is the name of the game and as I showed in my earlier post MJD has a higher receiving average than Reggie Bush so he's a better receiver than he is.

It's utterly mind boggling to me how a player (MJD) can be better than a similar player (Bush) in every way imaginable yet be considered inferior. That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I need to watch some more ESPN or play some more Madden or something.

Oh come on - you're being ingenuous at best...As everyone knows, punt return yards are much more difficult to gain the kick return yards -

Bush had 28 PRs 216Yds 1TD

MJD had 1PR 13Yds 0TD

If MJD is such a better punt returner, why didn't they use him more there????????

As for kick returns -

Bush had zero

MJD had 31 KRs 860Yds 1TD

Kick returners are much easier to find than punt returners, as shown by the leading KR average (26.8) being over TWICE the leading PR average (12.8).

So you discount Bush's receiving yards because he had more receptions, but don't disregard MJDs Return yards despite them being gained in an easier aspect of the game on top of him having more attempts?

I don't understand the need of MJD owners to keep trying to tout him as so much better than other players. I just don't get it.

As for receiving:

52% of MJDs receptions occurred behind the line, compared to 50% of Bush's receptions from behind the line. However, Bush's 2 TDs came from passes behind the line, as well as his longest reception.

Both of them for passes thrown between 1 and 10 yards in the air, have similar YPRs. No way of knowing then if they caught the ball and were tackled immediately, or if it was a 1 yard shovel pass that they individually turned into 8 yard gains.

Bush had two passes between 11 and 20 yards, and his YPR on those is over 20 yards, a good indication he caught the ball in stride and made additional YAC. MJD had only one pass between 11-20 yards, though he turned it into a 51 yard TD. Again, no way of knowing the situation on the play, etc.

I think quite honestly, it would be very difficult to say MJD was a better receiver based on his YPR. Especially since it's not significantly better than Bush's in any area.

On the other hand, since MJD was on the field most passing downs as the 3rd down RB and didn't see as many receptions as Bush might indicate Bush is the better receiver, especially considering the dearth of receiving options JAX has, and the welath of options NO has. Also, why didn't MJD see more passes down the field, like Bush did?

Maybe drops would be a measurement to see who is the better receiver? Bush had 8 out of his 88, MJD 4 out of 46... wow, about the same.

So, can someone definitively say one or the other is better? No. The only implication is the fact that Bush was used by the team much more as a receiver. That implies he's a better WR, but it's not enough. As for stats, they are remarkably similar, both these RBs are good receiving out of the backfield. MJD is not as good of a route runner, I don't think anyone would even try to argue that.

So the next question is, why does it matter?

Bush isn't getting drafted because people think he's so much better, but because he's in a better situation.

You can make all the excuses that you want for Reggie Bush. The fact of the matter is that at the end of the day Maurice Jones-Drew is better than Reggie Bush in every way, shape, and form. Discount the fact that he was a better and more efficient player all you want that's okay but they aren't equal. Not even close. It's okay though some people have to learn the hard way. Drafting Reggie Bush too early should be a good enough lesson for people.

Who is making excuses for Bush? Take off your MJD-man-love glasses. The level of hype he is getting on these boards borders on ridiculous. Yes he had a good season. No he is not likely to repeat it. Get over it.

No, he's not better than Bush, no matter what stats you try to paint with. He is a different RB with different strengths, but for every one thing he can do better than Bush, there is one thing Bush can do better than him.

Sheesh. Neither one are the primary RB on their team.

 

[kbj28]

Obvious bust, not counting injuriess?

Michael Vick

I don't think Vick can really be a bust if he doesn't get to go onto the field.

 

[da5exx]

I'm going with Travis Henry and Willis McGahee.

Nice avatar. I think he asked for obvious busts. Sure either one of those two could be a bust, BUT - and this is a big BUT - anyone running in Denver should not be considered an obvious bust.

 

[nygiants56]

So far picks I like for potential OBVIOUS busts we shouldve seen coming:LJ, Parker, McGahee, Colston

this is a great thread, I love it!While I agree a lot of what I'm reading in this thread, I'd be careful labeling LJ a 'bust' ..he's more likely to bust a 2000 yard season, than he is to flop..I wouldn't worry about the holdout..he'll report or be traded..... Perhaps you mean `OBVIOUSLY overrated guys who will under-perform their ADP`?FWP fits that bill, so does the entire Saints offense , which snuck up on people last season but that won't happen as much in 2007, imo:Colston, Brees, Bush ( I think teams have spent all off-season figuring out ways to stop this guy - he's not Marshall Faulk), Maroney, Holt ( bad knee, wrong side of 30, 9 games without a TD in 2006) , Portis, Brandon Jacobs, McNabb, Rivers, Romo, MJD, VY ( no legit running game like the one Trav Henry provided last year will hurt VY's stats), Benson, Gore..

 

[NOONAN]

I would think right off the top:

Gore-Already injured, lost Turner

LJ-Enough has been written, although I still don't know if I believe it

MoJo-being taken way to high for a guy who splits carries and will give up goalline carries to Greg Jones

Portis-injured again, splitting time maybe with Betts

Colston-Can he really do it again this year, Bush will get more receptions, will get more defensive attention

You mean Greg Jones the FULLBACK??? With a 3.5 carry avg?? And his career total of 7 TD's in 213 carries??? Yeah, right.http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492973

MJD will not lose carries in goal line situations to Greg-reconstructed knees-Jones. He was WAY better in that role than Jones ever was.

 

[gianmarco]

So far picks I like for potential OBVIOUS busts we shouldve seen coming:

LJ, Parker, McGahee, Colston

this is a great thread, I love it!While I agree a lot of what I'm reading in this thread, I'd be careful labeling LJ a 'bust' ..he's more likely to bust a 2000 yard season, than he is to flop..I wouldn't worry about the holdout..he'll report or be traded.....

Perhaps you mean `OBVIOUSLY overrated guys who will under-perform their ADP`?

FWP fits that bill, so does the entire Saints offense , which snuck up on people last season but that won't happen as much in 2007, imo:

Colston, Brees, Bush ( I think teams have spent all off-season figuring out ways to stop this guy - he's not Marshall Faulk), Maroney, Holt ( bad knee, wrong side of 30, 9 games without a TD in 2006) , Portis, Brandon Jacobs, McNabb, Rivers, Romo,

MJD, VY ( no legit running game like the one Trav Henry provided last year will hurt VY's stats), Benson, Gore..

How do you sneak up on teams for an entire 16 game season? Are you serious? Multi-million dollar franchises with an insane amount of coaches and coordinators and you think none of them could plan for the Saints and didn't realize what was going on until the end of the year? Seriously, bud.

 

[NOONAN]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Okay. Let's play a game of Q&AQuestion: Who had more yards last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (1377 to 1302)

Question: Who had more touchdowns last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (15 to 8)

Question: Who had a higher average per rush? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (5.7 to 3.6)

Question: Who had a higher average per reception? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (9.5 to 8.4)

We've established that Maurice Jones-Drew scored more touchdowns and had more total yards than Reggie Bush(while only playing in 14 games by the by). He also had a higher average running as well as receiving the football than Reggie Bush.

So would you explain to me what is so funny about me saying that MJD is a better player than Reggie Bush when in terms of production he's exceeded (greatly in some cases) him in virtually every category(at least every category that counts)? For what it's worth Reggie Bush catches more dump-off passes though. Yay.

There's perception and then there's reality. Often they are two different entities. Hopefully people will see the truth for what it is and not what television tells them to.

1 season of stats does not determine if MJD > Bush as a player.Care to compare return yards, return TDs, catches, recieving yards, college careers, Wins as a team, etc?

...didnt think so

Return Yards:MJD: 873 1 TD

Bush: 216 1 TD

Catches and receiving yards are included in TOTAL yards. MJD was far superior in most categories and better in every other.

College careers have what relevance to fantasy football or NFL football?

You get points for team wins?

...didn't think so .

 

[switz]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Okay. Let's play a game of Q&AQuestion: Who had more yards last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (1377 to 1302)

Question: Who had more touchdowns last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (15 to 8)

Question: Who had a higher average per rush? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (5.7 to 3.6)

Question: Who had a higher average per reception? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (9.5 to 8.4)

We've established that Maurice Jones-Drew scored more touchdowns and had more total yards than Reggie Bush(while only playing in 14 games by the by). He also had a higher average running as well as receiving the football than Reggie Bush.

So would you explain to me what is so funny about me saying that MJD is a better player than Reggie Bush when in terms of production he's exceeded (greatly in some cases) him in virtually every category(at least every category that counts)? For what it's worth Reggie Bush catches more dump-off passes though. Yay.

There's perception and then there's reality. Often they are two different entities. Hopefully people will see the truth for what it is and not what television tells them to.

1 season of stats does not determine if MJD > Bush as a player.Care to compare return yards, return TDs, catches, recieving yards, college careers, Wins as a team, etc?

...didnt think so

Return Yards:MJD: 873 1 TD

Bush: 216 1 TD

Catches and receiving yards are included in TOTAL yards. MJD was far superior in most categories and better in every other.

College careers have what relevance to fantasy football or NFL football?

You get points for team wins?

...didn't think so .

Your not taking into consideration # of attempts, nor situation. KRs are much much easier than PRs. Plus Return Yardage is very dependant on blocking.Bush is an excellent Punt Returner. MJD is not.

 

[NOONAN]

Reggie Bush- Think of all the reasons that people don't like MJD this season and apply those to Bush. It doesn't hurt to mention that Bush isn't as good as Jones-Drew either. Mix it all up in a pot and you have one of the most overrated running backs in the NFL.

Laurence Maroney- Seriously who is this guy?

Willis McGahee- Come on. This isn't Madden folks. He sucked in the past. He sucks right now and he'll keep on sucking in the future. When will people learn?

Okay. Let's play a game of Q&AQuestion: Who had more yards last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (1377 to 1302)

Question: Who had more touchdowns last season Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (15 to 8)

Question: Who had a higher average per rush? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (5.7 to 3.6)

Question: Who had a higher average per reception? Reggie Bush or Maurice Jones-Drew?

Answer: Maurice Jones-Drew (9.5 to 8.4)

We've established that Maurice Jones-Drew scored more touchdowns and had more total yards than Reggie Bush(while only playing in 14 games by the by). He also had a higher average running as well as receiving the football than Reggie Bush.

So would you explain to me what is so funny about me saying that MJD is a better player than Reggie Bush when in terms of production he's exceeded (greatly in some cases) him in virtually every category(at least every category that counts)? For what it's worth Reggie Bush catches more dump-off passes though. Yay.

There's perception and then there's reality. Often they are two different entities. Hopefully people will see the truth for what it is and not what television tells them to.

1 season of stats does not determine if MJD > Bush as a player.Care to compare return yards, return TDs, catches, recieving yards, college careers, Wins as a team, etc?

...didnt think so

Return Yards:MJD: 873 1 TD

Bush: 216 1 TD

Catches and receiving yards are included in TOTAL yards. MJD was far superior in most categories and better in every other.

College careers have what relevance to fantasy football or NFL football?

You get points for team wins?

...didn't think so .

Your not taking into consideration # of attempts, nor situation. KRs are much much easier than PRs. Plus Return Yardage is very dependant on blocking.Bush is an excellent Punt Returner. MJD is not.

MJD had a single attempt. He is not used that way. He was one of the top KR guys in the entire NFL, though.

 

[jurb26]

Why are you arguing over return yds? Do your leagues score those or something? Lets talk about something real please.

 

[NOONAN]

Why are you arguing over return yds? Do your leagues score those or something? Lets talk about something real please.

Actually it does. I was replying to an ignorant post trying to defend the Bush hype machine. Sorry.

 

[jurb26]

Why are you arguing over return yds? Do your leagues score those or something? Lets talk about something real please.

Actually it does. I was replying to an ignorant post trying to defend the Bush hype machine. Sorry.

NP, if you score them then it's very valid. Not many leagues do is all.

 

[massraider]

I will submit the entire Cardinal offense.

Not that I think things aren't on the upswing there. I just think that Boldin, Fitz, Leinart, and Edge will all go before I am comfortable taking them. I think many owners will ignore the fact that wile Denny Green was a complete loon, he was great for fantasy stats. Better team, worse fantasy production. I also think this is the year Edge's workload catches up with him.

 

[BLOX]

Most obvious to me:

Cedric Benson - can't stay healthy and he's almost the exact opposite of what a pro is supposed to be (without getting arrested anyway).

*didn't read all the posts, so this may already be mentioned.

 

[EBF]

Very tough to say. Inevitably 1-2 top tier players will suffer serious injuries. It happens every year. But you can't really predict those. Here are some guys who seem risky:

Larry Johnson - The fact that he had over 400 carries last season is enough to scare me. Throw in the holdout nonsense, first year starter at QB, and aging supporting cast; and you've got a guy with lots of risk. I couldn't get myself to draft him at 1.04.

Maurice Drew - Talented player, but I think his TD totals were a little misleading last season. He probably won't get enough touches to be a top 10 back again.

Laurence Maroney - He's in the perfect situation to succeed, so I think he'll probably have a good year when all is said and done, but he wasn't exactly lights out as a rookie. Players like William Green, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, and Anthony Thomas have shown that it's dangerous to assume that a young back will break out. Is Maroney just another player who's being overdrafted on perceived potential? Maybe.

Ronnie Brown - For all the hype, he's never put together a great season. He has an improved supporting cast this year, but I'd be a little reluctant to rely on him.

Cedric Benson - Stud player in college, but he bombed in personal workouts and hasn't exactly set the NFL on fire in limited duty. He's a real enigma. He could be great or he could be awful.

Brandon Jacobs - He's an intriguing player, but no RB with his dimensions has ever succeeded. Rules were made to be broken, but I don't know if it's wise to bet against history.

Joseph Addai - Similar to Maroney. He flashed talent as a rookie and is on a great team, but he hasn't proven that he can be the guy yet.

Reggie Bush - He has top shelf talent and should be one of the top playmakers in the NFL for years to come, but he'll still be splitting the pie with Deuce. That might make him a weak option in non-PPR leagues. Then again, he's Reggie Bush. I wouldn't bet against Reggie Bush.

Clinton Portis - He hasn't really dominated since leaving Denver. With the emergence of Ladell Betts, it's possible that Portis will suffer a dip in production.

WRs:

Marques Colston - Fluke? He'll have to prove otherwise.

TJ Houshmandzadeh - Career year in 2006. Players tend to get drafted too high after their career years (see Muhammad, Chambers, and S. Moss). The only saving grace is the absence of Henry, which should give TJ's numbers a temporary boost.

Terrell Owens - I doubt he'll be awful and there's a chance he'll have a big year, but he didn't look like the dominant TO of old to me last season. Maybe he's finally hitting the Joe Horn and Eric Moulds wall.

Roy Williams - What impact will Calvin has on his numbers? I happen to think the youngster is the better WR. The box scores might not agree just yet though.

 

[North]

May seem dumb now but Chad Johnson. Over the past 3 years Housch has been creeping up to his level. This is the year that Housch actually outscores CJ. Not saying he will be a bust but certainly not worthy of the #1 WR ranking many mag's are giving him. Take away weeks 10 and 11 and he doesn't finish in the top 20 last year.