This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Pocket passers win Super Bowls, not athletes who happen to play QB.And before anyone makes the mistake......John Elway and Steve Young were primarily pocket passers when they won the big game.
Just wanted to mention, you're the only one who keeps batting about "because Vick scores well" fantasy wise. I never said anything of the sort. Vick scored better than Rivers and Brady in FF as well, but I consider both to be better real QBs. I jumped on your Matt Ryan example because he is not in the same class with those guys, and Vick matched him in just about every statistic while beating him badly in YPA and rushing efficiency (his own and the jump his team made with him in the lineup). Vick has weaknesses that may likely prevent him from ever winning a Super Bowl. However, Matt Ryan to this point isn't a Super Bowl-level passer either.
This isn't going to go the way you hoped.
Guess there's just a lot of misinformed people on right now. It'll balance out as time goes by.
Vick: career 80.2 qb ratingRyan: career 86.9 qb rating
Is the question "Who was better last year?"
Honestly, if we see multiple season of Vick's QB rating 100+, then you might have a point, but for now last year is Vick's outlier career-wise, not the norm. For now, I'll concede Vick - by a small margin. But the point will become much clearer in a season or two.That must be it.
It depends. CEF and I were arguing this in the Wallace vs. Jackson thread; he made a point that guys can score better in fantasy football despite being an inferior real life player - using Matt Ryan vs. Vick last year as an example. I pointed out that while I didn't know if Vick could sustain coming into this season, last season he absolutely outplayed Ryan. His yards per attempt was an absurd 1.6 ahead of Ryan while their completion % was just about equal, and Vick's rushing yardage/effect on the Eagle running game was lagniappe. So yeah, my point was absolutely that, and only that, Vick was the superior player last season, while Ryan was a touch overrated. Not that Atlanta Vick was better than Ryan. Not that Vick will be better this season. He pretty much ignores that, created a thread with a different question to prove his point, and Vick is still losing.Is the question "Who was better last year?"
Steve Young had 58 rushes and 7 rushing TDs in 1994. He had 2 rushing TDs and at least 5 rushing attempts in each game in the post-season that year, including 10 rushes for 47 yards in the Dallas game.Good QBs win Super Bowls. As many pocket passers have lost the Super Bowl as won it.
Yes, so? Vick: Career 47.2 rushing yards per game.Ryan: Career 6.0 rushing yards per game.Vick: 2010 100.2 qb ratingRyan: 2010 91.0 qb ratingWould you like to add something to the discussion?
WOW talk about cherry picking!!
2010 rating inflated by the suckage of Washington. Everyone kicked their ### passing last year. 47 yards rushing the ball. What does that tell you? He can't find the open receiver.Matt Ryan all day.
Steve Young rushed for 48 yards in his Super Bowl win. He also found receivers for six TDs. 47 yards rushing the ball tells me that he brings a dimension to the offense that Matt Ryan doesn't.Vick had five games last year with QB rating over 100, and five more with QB rating over 90. He had no games with a QB rating under 70; Ryan had 3.'FavreCo said:
oh, well, sure....Pass Yards per gameRyan: 218.7Vick: 149.1 Completion PercentageRyan: 60.8Vick: 55.3TD/INT ratioRyan: 1.94Vick: 1.60Winning PercentageRyan: 0.717Vick: 0.597SacksRyan: 59Vick: 221
i would argue against this based on sample size. there have been way more pocket passing QBs capable of winning the SB than scrambling ones.right now for ex:brady, rivers, rodgers, brees, romo, schuab, eli, ryan, peyton, romo, freeman, bradford, stafford, schuab, flaccoVS.vick and...maybe rothy?thats it. 15 vs 2 and its about the same year after year. odds are your going to get someone from the pocket passing pool about 7 out of every 8 years'spider321 said:
You keep throwing out career statistics, but to me, these seem irrelevant. The question isn't who's had the better career averages? The question, as I took it, is who's the better QB right now? And I think the answer to that has to be Vick. His year last year was incredible, and he clearly outperformed Matt Ryan in most passing metrics (ie. ignoring the extra dimension he adds by running). You might say it's a fluke, but there are reasons to believe in his improvement (better surrounding cast/coach, possible mental improvement b/c of time away from the game, etc.). If the question is, if I'm starting a franchise, who do I want? The answer is probably Ryan because he's younger and after 3 years in the NFL, is probably better than Vick was after 3 years in the NFL. But, the question is who is the better NFL QB, and that can only really be evaluated right now. So the answer is Vick.
You might want to retract that statement? Ryan beat him in passing by roughly 700 yards and exactly 7 touchdowns. BOTH threw under 10 interceptions and had a nearly identical completion %. Ryan also got sacked 11 less times.
Not approximately 7 or almost 7, but exactly 7.Vick only played in 12 games and was knocked out of another. 700 yards and approximately 7 TDs in 4.5 games is not an advantage.
Well he just asserted that it's *my opinion* that Ryan is a better QB. I just threw a poll up to illustrate that it's not going to be a slam dunk here. Many people share that opinion. I personally think Ryan is a better all around player. Vick had a nice season last year. But I think as SSOG would tend to argue here, those numbers may be unsustainable. Time will tell as Ryan comes into his own and into his prime, but I think the more that people vote in this poll, it'll be very close. Consider this: Most of the Vick push is because of one years production (last years). If I threw this poll up last year at this time, it would be landslide Matt Ryan.'Hipple said:
Mike Vick is a lot better than Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan's a hair better than guys like Flacco and Cutler, Mike Vick is a whole nother beast for a defense to prepare for.Mike Vick scores well in fatasy leagues BECAUSE he is such a dynamic player, not because it's some form of luck. The only problem I have with Mike Vick is his durability issues but give me 1 game and take the best QB between those 2 it's an absolute no brainer.'CompetitiveEdgeFootball said:
Atlanta happened a long time ago. If you think Vick's performance in 2006 is more relevant than his performance in 2010, why are you giving Matt Ryan a pass on his 2009, where he threw 14 INTs (more than Vick has ever thrown) and completed just 58.3% of his passes?Ryan's combined three years might be considered as good as Vick's combined 5 starter years. But in 2010, Vick was clearly better than Ryan.'Rick James said:
