Who is the better RB? (1 Viewer)

[Ack88]

I am of the belief that Marion Barber III is a better overall RB than Julius Jones and should be starting for the Cowboys. Barber is quicker, more agile, a better receiver, and has a better nose for the endzone. Julius Jones is nothing more than average, has no real "burst", and is usually brought down by the first defender.

I don't believe that JJ is terrible, just average. I'm also smart enough to know that MB III might not be able to handle 30 touches a game, so some form of RBBC is needed. I would advise that the split be 20 touches for Barber vs. 10 for Jones. I'm curious what the Shark Pool, particularly Cowboys fans, think.

 

[fsufan]

so you are a Barber owner

 

[Ack88]

On the contrary fsufan. I own Jones in the same MOX-V league that you are in.

I do not own Barber in any of the three leagues I'm in, but I am a Cowboy fan who has seen every game that both players have played and honestly feel Barber is the better overall player.

I feel one of the many mistakes Parcells has made, and continues to make, is to start JJ.

 

[[scooter]]

I used to be a JJ defender, but after seeing him fall flat in the endzone to score a safety for the Redskins........I'm ready to give up.

The guy is Eddie George 2.0.

 

[redman]

I own neither guy and I have to agree that MBIII is a better overall RB than JJ. I don't understand why Parcells insists upon starting JJ.

 

[fsufan]

On the contrary fsufan. I own Jones in the same MOX-V league that you are in. I do not own Barber in any of the three leagues I'm in, but I am a Cowboy fan who has seen every game that both players have played and honestly feel Barber is the better overall player.I feel one of the many mistakes Parcells has made, and continues to make, is to start JJ.

I think JJ is having a nice season.686 yards, 4.2 avg., 3 TDsBarber309 yards, 5.2 avg., 6 TDs, 135 rec yardsBarber is the better receiver. I think they make a nice 1, 2 punch.

 

[Righetti]

how about an option.. Both RB's seem to do well in the situation the Cowboys have them in.

 

[zoonation]

On the contrary fsufan. I own Jones in the same MOX-V league that you are in. I do not own Barber in any of the three leagues I'm in, but I am a Cowboy fan who has seen every game that both players have played and honestly feel Barber is the better overall player.I feel one of the many mistakes Parcells has made, and continues to make, is to start JJ.

With all due respect, do you honestly believe you know more than Parcells?I'll defer to Bill's judgment, thanks.

 

[aposulli]

' date='Nov 6 2006, 01:49 PM' post='5858260']I used to be a JJ defender, but after seeing him fall flat in the endzone to score a safety for the Redskins........I'm ready to give up.The guy is Eddie George 2.0.

Eddie George was far superior in his prime.

 

[Cowboys#1]

read my 200 other posts on this very issue that comes up every week.

in short.

jones does the things barber cannot do. barber does the things jones cannot do.

hth.

 

[Cowboys#1]

15-8 barber?

are you guys kidding me??

do you guys watch the games?!?!?!?!? absurd.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I've felt strongly that the split should be switched in MBIIIs favor for a while now - since MBIII's stretch as the feature back last year while Julius was hurt.

Look at 2005 Denver for reference - Mike Anderson between the tackles, on third down, and at the goal line - softening the D up for Tatum Bell, who could bust off long runs if the hole was there against a flat footed/forward leaning D that had been pushed around all game. I think they are wasting some of both RBs by using JJones to keep the D honest with the bread and butter running plays, when MBIII is better suited for that role, and using MBIII as the change of pace, when JJones is more explosive and better suited for that role. MBIII is more punishing to tackle and pushes the pile - giving him the rock 20+ times a game will wear down the D and cause them to cheat up a little - and then Julius's "shot out of a cannon" running style will seem even more sudden.

 

[fsufan]

15-8 barber?are you guys kidding me??do you guys watch the games?!?!?!?!? absurd.

i think most are going off Barber's TDs(6) and he is the Cowboys goal line back. I have seen no reason JJ should be bench. And yes I do watch the Cowboys. I am a fan and have the ST.

 

[[scooter]]

' date='Nov 6 2006, 01:49 PM' post='5858260']I used to be a JJ defender, but after seeing him fall flat in the endzone to score a safety for the Redskins........I'm ready to give up.The guy is Eddie George 2.0.

Eddie George was far superior in his prime.

True. Jones is Eddie George 2001-2004.

 

[malice]

' date='Nov 6 2006, 01:49 PM' post='5858260']I used to be a JJ defender, but after seeing him fall flat in the endzone to score a safety for the Redskins........I'm ready to give up.The guy is Eddie George 2.0.

Whether MBIII or JJ is the better back overall remains in question, but when you absolutely need to punch it out of the end zone to prevent a safety, not having MBIII in there for that play was a bad call.

 

[Riffraff]

Something I wrote elsewhere on the topic:

Jones - plays well when everyone knows he is going to run. Fights for yards on any down. Has learned to take a hit and to play hurt. Reliable as a workhorse. Can take it the distance from inside and outside.Barber - just like any good 3rd down back. Has exaggerated YPC as long as he ends up 1 yard shy of the first down (Chris Perry, Kevin Faulk, Larry Centers, etc). Pass blocks well and fights for yards near the goal line. Makes the most of his playing time since every play is rare for him. Not sure he could handle a full load when defenses prepare for him. Should last a long time in the league with the role he is playing.Best for an entire game = JJBest for change of pace = MBBest to run down the opposition's mouth = JJBest third down option= MBBest for special teams = TTBest to run wild in a blowout = TTI think Parcells is using them correctly.It's the chuckleheads that want their 11th round FF RB to get more time that think differently.

 

[SickThing]

Something I wrote elsewhere on the topic:

Jones - plays well when everyone knows he is going to run. Fights for yards on any down. Has learned to take a hit and to play hurt. Reliable as a workhorse. Can take it the distance from inside and outside.Barber - just like any good 3rd down back. Has exaggerated YPC as long as he ends up 1 yard shy of the first down (Chris Perry, Kevin Faulk, Larry Centers, etc). Pass blocks well and fights for yards near the goal line. Makes the most of his playing time since every play is rare for him. Not sure he could handle a full load when defenses prepare for him. Should last a long time in the league with the role he is playing.Best for an entire game = JJBest for change of pace = MBBest to run down the opposition's mouth = JJBest third down option= MBBest for special teams = TTBest to run wild in a blowout = TTI think Parcells is using them correctly.It's the chuckleheads that want their 11th round FF RB to get more time that think differently.

 

[Pnishthm]

On the contrary fsufan. I own Jones in the same MOX-V league that you are in. I do not own Barber in any of the three leagues I'm in, but I am a Cowboy fan who has seen every game that both players have played and honestly feel Barber is the better overall player.I feel one of the many mistakes Parcells has made, and continues to make, is to start JJ.

With all due respect, do you honestly believe you know more than Parcells?I'll defer to Bill's judgment, thanks.

I dunno, he did start Bledsoe for half the season.

 

[MLBrandow]

Barber might seem better under 10 carries, but he's not a full-load back.

20 carries a game like you propose would make him a 320-touch back, assuming he got zero receptions.

This is silly. Barber looks a half step faster because JJ is absorbing most of the beating every game.

Of course a 3rd-down back or COP back will look more explosive than the every-down back. It's because they don't get the ball nearly as much, and they can't handle the load, so they focus on making big plays out of the 8-10 shots they get a game.

I would venture that a good number of MB3 voters also own Tatum Bell, and they follow the same line of reasoning. TB can't carry the load either, but when he's in there running 10-12 times a game, he looks like Jesus more often than not.

As a fantasy player, it's plenty okay to assume that you know which players will breakout or which players will be better, but don't ever be the clown who believes he's smarter than a HOF coach who is doing everything in his power to build on his legacy.

 

[Pnishthm]

Something I wrote elsewhere on the topic:

Jones - plays well when everyone knows he is going to run. Fights for yards on any down. Has learned to take a hit and to play hurt. Reliable as a workhorse. Can take it the distance from inside and outside.Barber - just like any good 3rd down back. Has exaggerated YPC as long as he ends up 1 yard shy of the first down (Chris Perry, Kevin Faulk, Larry Centers, etc). Pass blocks well and fights for yards near the goal line. Makes the most of his playing time since every play is rare for him. Not sure he could handle a full load when defenses prepare for him. Should last a long time in the league with the role he is playing.Best for an entire game = JJBest for change of pace = MBBest to run down the opposition's mouth = JJBest third down option= MBBest for special teams = TTBest to run wild in a blowout = TTI think Parcells is using them correctly.It's the chuckleheads that want their 11th round FF RB to get more time that think differently.

I don't think this is good posting at all.Best for an entire game= MB He's the type of runner than can wear down a defenseBest for change of pace= JJ After MB wears them down, JJ can come in and make them chase him.Best to run down opposition's mouth= MB Obviously if he is the short yardage back, he is tougher to bring down thus they can plow him right thru opposing Ds.Best third down option= MB He got this one rightBest to run wild in blowout= Push- Who cares, it's a blowoutParcells has them backwards the same way he had Bledsoe and Romo backwards And this chucklehead drafted him in round 7 not 11 ! :X

 

[packersfan]

how about an option.. Both RB's seem to do well in the situation the Cowboys have them in.

I'm a Barber owner and I would love to see him get the starting job or even 12-15 carries a game. But I think Jones is the superior RB and given how well both are doing in their roles I don't see any reason for Parcells to make a change.

 

[MLBrandow]

I don't think this is good posting at all.Best for an entire game= MB He's the type of runner than can wear down a defenseBest for change of pace= JJ After MB wears them down, JJ can come in and make them chase him.Best to run down opposition's mouth= MB Obviously if he is the short yardage back, he is tougher to bring down thus they can plow him right thru opposing Ds.Best third down option= MB He got this one rightBest to run wild in blowout= Push- Who cares, it's a blowoutParcells has them backwards the same way he had Bledsoe and Romo backwards And this chucklehead drafted him in round 7 not 11 ! :X

Read my post and go look up some stats, and then proceed to actually watch some football games.

 

[Pnishthm]

Barber might seem better under 10 carries, but he's not a full-load back.20 carries a game like you propose would make him a 320-touch back, assuming he got zero receptions.This is silly. Barber looks a half step faster because JJ is absorbing most of the beating every game.Of course a 3rd-down back or COP back will look more explosive than the every-down back. It's because they don't get the ball nearly as much, and they can't handle the load, so they focus on making big plays out of the 8-10 shots they get a game.I would venture that a good number of MB3 voters also own Tatum Bell, and they follow the same line of reasoning. TB can't carry the load either, but when he's in there running 10-12 times a game, he looks like Jesus more often than not.As a fantasy player, it's plenty okay to assume that you know which players will breakout or which players will be better, but don't ever be the clown who believes he's smarter than a HOF coach who is doing everything in his power to build on his legacy.

I can see your point on Jones taking the beating and MB looking faster because of that, but why would you say that Barber could not handle the load of an every down back? Jones is 5 foot 10 211 lbs and Marber is 6 foot 220 lbs. I see no reason to believbe that MB could not handle that role.

 

[Pnishthm]

I don't think this is good posting at all.Best for an entire game= MB He's the type of runner than can wear down a defenseBest for change of pace= JJ After MB wears them down, JJ can come in and make them chase him.Best to run down opposition's mouth= MB Obviously if he is the short yardage back, he is tougher to bring down thus they can plow him right thru opposing Ds.Best third down option= MB He got this one rightBest to run wild in blowout= Push- Who cares, it's a blowoutParcells has them backwards the same way he had Bledsoe and Romo backwards And this chucklehead drafted him in round 7 not 11 ! :X

Read my post and go look up some stats, and then proceed to actually watch some football games.

I DID read your post and responded accordingly below. Now do the same with mine. I'll be eagerly awaiting your answer. Until then, I guess I'll try and watch a little football.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I would venture that a good number of MB3 voters also own Tatum Bell, and they follow the same line of reasoning. TB can't carry the load either, but when he's in there running 10-12 times a game, he looks like Jesus more often than not.

Julius Jones reminds me of Tatum a lot more than MBIII does.

 

[Pnishthm]

I would venture that a good number of MB3 voters also own Tatum Bell, and they follow the same line of reasoning. TB can't carry the load either, but when he's in there running 10-12 times a game, he looks like Jesus more often than not.

Julius Jones reminds me of Tatum a lot more than MBIII does.

I missed this reply by MLB. I guess 612 yards in 7 games @ 4.5 ypc is not being able to carry the load? And you told me to go look up the stats? Heck, even Tatum is bigger than JJ

 

[corpcow]

I'm a MB3 owner (as my well, #5-6 RB now in a 12 team league). I think MB3 is more of a "Parcells guy" than JJ and will eventually win the job. That's why I drafted him (late - like 8-10th round or something).

But I think like his brother JJ consistently finds a way to fend off the challenger and keep the job. Every time you count him out, he has a big game. I expect as the season wears on you'll see a more even split, but I don't think you'll ever see it 2-1 in Barber's favor.

but I hope I'm wrong

 

[BigTex]

How many of these will we have? I'm just curious.

All that matters is what Parcells thinks and I qoute: "JJ can take it to the house on any given play, that's what separates him from Marion" Parcells

(And NO I don't have a link it was in a PC).

 

[One]

How many of these will we have? I'm just curious.

All that matters is what Parcells thinks and I qoute: "JJ can take it to the house on any given play, that's what separates him from Marion" Parcells

(And NO I don't have a link it was in a PC).

...someday

 

[Bankerguy]

Pretty easy to run for 5 plus yards a carry against defenses who are expecting the pass and are in nickel.

JJ is the better back.

 

[Pnishthm]

Pretty easy to run for 5 plus yards a carry against defenses who are expecting the pass and are in nickel.JJ is the better back.

He also runs for 5 plus a carry counting all those carries at the goal where he only can get 1 or 2 yards

 

[Bankerguy]

Pretty easy to run for 5 plus yards a carry against defenses who are expecting the pass and are in nickel.JJ is the better back.

He also runs for 5 plus a carry counting all those carries at the goal where he only can get 1 or 2 yards

There haven't been that many. He's not Brandon Jacobs.

 

[Wu-banger]

you lost credibilty with me when you said JJ has no burst...

they are a great backfield together...be happy with that.

 

[Pnishthm]

4 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)

2 Members: Pnishthm, jerry jones

Maybe we should get his opinion

 

[Ack88]

I don't see the issue being their effectiveness as a tandem, I think the numbers back that up. I think their roles should be reversed. Barber makes more defenders miss and is rarely brought down after the initial contact. Joel Buchsbaum used to talk about the ability of a runner to "get through trash", the arm tackles and knocks at the line of scrimmage, and JJ does not get to the second level nearly often enough. He hits the hole hard but I haven't seen enough plays where he fights through the initial contact and breaks a 20+ yard run, whereas Barber is seldom brought down on first contact. If given the opportunity to get the lion's share of the carries, I believe Barber would make more big plays. It's not that JJ isn't decent, he certainly in adequate, but to me, Barber brings more to the table.

 

[BassNBrew]

JJ - This coming from a guy who loaded up on Barber this year and thought he was the better back before the the season. I'll admit to only seeing 4 Cowgal games, but JJ has been the better back in those games.

 

[nygiants56]

On the contrary fsufan. I own Jones in the same MOX-V league that you are in. I do not own Barber in any of the three leagues I'm in, but I am a Cowboy fan who has seen every game that both players have played and honestly feel Barber is the better overall player.I feel one of the many mistakes Parcells has made, and continues to make, is to start JJ.

With all due respect, do you honestly believe you know more than Parcells?I'll defer to Bill's judgment, thanks.

Parcells also traded DOWN, out of the first round, and later selected JJ ..thats his boy..like Kyle Boller is Billick's boy..stubborness with both coaches, I guess..

 

[Banger]

On the contrary fsufan. I own Jones in the same MOX-V league that you are in. I do not own Barber in any of the three leagues I'm in, but I am a Cowboy fan who has seen every game that both players have played and honestly feel Barber is the better overall player.I feel one of the many mistakes Parcells has made, and continues to make, is to start JJ.

With all due respect, do you honestly believe you know more than Parcells?I'll defer to Bill's judgment, thanks.

Parcells also traded DOWN, out of the first round, and later selected JJ ..thats his boy..like Kyle Boller is Billick's boy..stubborness with both coaches, I guess..

where is Boller now?

 

[Pnishthm]

Still awaiting your reply MLB

PS Can I stop watching football now, it's been days nonstop

 

[Ack88]

People can refer to Parcells' judgement all they want, anyone who knows even the slightest little bit about the Dallas Cowboys, can see that MB III, when given the opportunity, NEARLY ALWAYS outperforms Julius Jones.

Parcells has forgotten more about football than I will ever know but he is flat out wrong for continuing to start JJ. This is more about MB IIIs production than it is about "hating" of JJ.

 

[PsychoMan]

I like both, but Marion has really impressed me this year. I think they're in a good situation having two good backs. Annoying for us fantasy footballers though.

 

[rhawkins68]

As a fantasy player, it's plenty okay to assume that you know which players will breakout or which players will be better, but don't ever be the clown who believes he's smarter than a HOF coach who is doing everything in his power to build on his legacy.

I always find it interesting how many NFL level head coaches the forum has. Face it they see more, know more, and are a better judge of who should play.

 

[Ack88]

Of course coaches see more and know more...that is not the issue, the issue is whether or not (at least according to the title of this thread) MB III is better (or at the very least more productive) than Julius Jones.

Parcells also started the WRONG QB, too. It doesn't mean he's not an HOF coach, he is. But you know what, coaches, even HOF ones make mistakes.

 

[Pnishthm]

Pretty easy to run for 5 plus yards a carry against defenses who are expecting the pass and are in nickel.JJ is the better back.

He also runs for 5 plus a carry counting all those carries at the goal where he only can get 1 or 2 yards

There haven't been that many. He's not Brandon Jacobs.

You're right, he has several more TDs than Jacobs. Next!

 

[Sopranos]

JJ'S DAYS in the NFL are numbered. He has good speed but is not a good runner.

 

[malice]

I like both, but Marion has really impressed me this year. I think they're in a good situation having two good backs. Annoying for us fantasy footballers though.

It's not as annoying as the Broncos backfield...

 

[Banger]

JJ'S DAYS in the NFL are numbered. He has good speed but is not a good runner.

I wouldn't say in the NFL, maybe as a starter for a playoff caliber team. He could still start for the Texans, Clev, Tenn, Minn, Jets, Carolina and maybe Denver.

 

[Bankerguy]

Pretty easy to run for 5 plus yards a carry against defenses who are expecting the pass and are in nickel.JJ is the better back.

He also runs for 5 plus a carry counting all those carries at the goal where he only can get 1 or 2 yards

There haven't been that many. He's not Brandon Jacobs.

You're right, he has several more TDs than Jacobs. Next!

I will take my lumps. I changed my tune about 2-3 weeks ago in another thread.JJ is the better back, but MB3 is the more effective back right now.parcells has got to ride the hot back.

 

[Sweeper]

I dunno here, guy. The way things are going seem to be working out nicely for the Cowbows. I don't see a need to "switch things up".

So what is it we are talking about anyway? Making MBIII the starter? It really has no bearing on the game, just who is listed as the "starter" so I am not sure I see what it is you would like to see happen here.

 

[Sopranos]

JJ'S DAYS in the NFL are numbered. He has good speed but is not a good runner.

I wouldn't say in the NFL, maybe as a starter for a playoff caliber team. He could still start for the Texans, Clev, Tenn, Minn, Jets, Carolina and maybe Denver.

True but he isnt on those teams. He isnt a RB for a contender. He just isnt. Years ago there was alot of talk who was better MBIII or Maroney at Minn. I still think it was Barber. When Maroney was the starter they had an o line comparable to the NFL. The entire offense was set for him. They were not that good of a team because of it. Barber is for real,yet no one knows it