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Who would you pick #1 overall? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
Now, or ever?
Tony Jabroni
Footballguy
Brett Favre... 
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
Well, Jones won an MVP and shoud have won a SB. He played in the 3rds longest game in NFL history with the Oakland Raiders, where Dave Casper caught a TD to win it 37 to 31 in the 2nd OT.
It was the "Ghost to the Post" for Oakland, big plays for Baltimore. It was the third longest game at the time in NFL history. It was one of the great games in NFL history. In the end it was a missed quarterback Bert Jones pass in the first overtime for Baltimore and for Oakland it was tight end Dave Casper's third touchdown that sealed Baltimore's fate.
It was the third straight year the Baltimore Colts faced the defending Super Bowl Champions and it would be the last time the Colts would ever participate in a playoff game representing the City of Baltimore.
The first half was dominated by defenses and the score after two quarters gave little evidence to the scoring that would take place in the second half. Oakland opened the scoring in the first quarter with a 30-yard run by Davis.
In the second quarter, with the Baltimore offense stymied by Oakland's front line, the Raiders appeared to be driving for another score when Baltimore defensive back Bruce Laird picked off Oakland's quarterback Kenny Stabler on a pass out to the sideline and raced 61 yards for the tying touchdown. Later in the second quarter Colts kicker Linhart put Baltimore up 10-7 at halftime with a 36-yard field goal.
Oakland went back ahead on their first possession of the second half when Stabler threw an 8-yard touchdown pass to tight end Dave Casper, his first of three touchdowns on the day.
On the ensuing kickoff, Baltimore's Marshall Johnson put the hometown faithful on their feet with an unexpected 87-yard return for a touchdown to put the Colts back in front 17-14.
Near the end of the third quarter Oakland's Ted Hendricks blocked a Baltimore punt that led to a second Stabler to Casper touchdown, this one for 10 yards, putting Oakland back in front 21-17 after three quarters.
Early in the fourth Baltimore drove down to Oakland's 1-yard line and had first and goal. They needed all four downs as on fourth down, Ron Lee barely broke the plane of the goal to put Baltimore back in front, 24-21.
Oakland struck back with a short run of their own when Pete Banaszak scored on a 1-yard run to put Oakland back in front 28-24.
With just over two minutes to go in the game, Ron Lee scored his second touchdown of the game to put Baltimore up 31-28 and Oakland having not only beat the defense, but now the clock.
On third and long in their own 44 and time running out, the Raiders called for play named, "Ghost to the Post". A play that Stabler throws a high arching pass down field towards the opponents right end zone, allowing the receiver Casper to run under it. As the ball was thrown, it appeared Stabler overthrew Casper. Casper looked back, saw the ball was long, put his head down, ran as hard as he could and in the last moment looked back up and made the catch at the Baltimore 14. (See image right.) With 29 seconds left, Errol Mann kicked the game-tying field, sending the game into overtime.
In the first overtime Bert Jones missed a wide open Raymond Chester that would have given them field goal position. It was Baltimore's best and only chance of winning the game in overtime.
Late in the first overtime and into the second overtime Oakland drove to Baltimore's 10-yard line and less than a minute into the sixth quarter, Stabler hit Casper for the winning touchdown.
Astonishingly, in all, ten of the eleven scores that day moved the team that scored into a tie or back into the lead.
This game marked the last greatest game for the Colts in Baltimore.
It was the "Ghost to the Post" for Oakland, big plays for Baltimore. It was the third longest game at the time in NFL history. It was one of the great games in NFL history. In the end it was a missed quarterback Bert Jones pass in the first overtime for Baltimore and for Oakland it was tight end Dave Casper's third touchdown that sealed Baltimore's fate.
It was the third straight year the Baltimore Colts faced the defending Super Bowl Champions and it would be the last time the Colts would ever participate in a playoff game representing the City of Baltimore.
The first half was dominated by defenses and the score after two quarters gave little evidence to the scoring that would take place in the second half. Oakland opened the scoring in the first quarter with a 30-yard run by Davis.
In the second quarter, with the Baltimore offense stymied by Oakland's front line, the Raiders appeared to be driving for another score when Baltimore defensive back Bruce Laird picked off Oakland's quarterback Kenny Stabler on a pass out to the sideline and raced 61 yards for the tying touchdown. Later in the second quarter Colts kicker Linhart put Baltimore up 10-7 at halftime with a 36-yard field goal.
Oakland went back ahead on their first possession of the second half when Stabler threw an 8-yard touchdown pass to tight end Dave Casper, his first of three touchdowns on the day.
On the ensuing kickoff, Baltimore's Marshall Johnson put the hometown faithful on their feet with an unexpected 87-yard return for a touchdown to put the Colts back in front 17-14.
Near the end of the third quarter Oakland's Ted Hendricks blocked a Baltimore punt that led to a second Stabler to Casper touchdown, this one for 10 yards, putting Oakland back in front 21-17 after three quarters.
Early in the fourth Baltimore drove down to Oakland's 1-yard line and had first and goal. They needed all four downs as on fourth down, Ron Lee barely broke the plane of the goal to put Baltimore back in front, 24-21.
Oakland struck back with a short run of their own when Pete Banaszak scored on a 1-yard run to put Oakland back in front 28-24.
With just over two minutes to go in the game, Ron Lee scored his second touchdown of the game to put Baltimore up 31-28 and Oakland having not only beat the defense, but now the clock.
On third and long in their own 44 and time running out, the Raiders called for play named, "Ghost to the Post". A play that Stabler throws a high arching pass down field towards the opponents right end zone, allowing the receiver Casper to run under it. As the ball was thrown, it appeared Stabler overthrew Casper. Casper looked back, saw the ball was long, put his head down, ran as hard as he could and in the last moment looked back up and made the catch at the Baltimore 14. (See image right.) With 29 seconds left, Errol Mann kicked the game-tying field, sending the game into overtime.
In the first overtime Bert Jones missed a wide open Raymond Chester that would have given them field goal position. It was Baltimore's best and only chance of winning the game in overtime.
Late in the first overtime and into the second overtime Oakland drove to Baltimore's 10-yard line and less than a minute into the sixth quarter, Stabler hit Casper for the winning touchdown.
Astonishingly, in all, ten of the eleven scores that day moved the team that scored into a tie or back into the lead.
This game marked the last greatest game for the Colts in Baltimore.
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Namath,
Any guy who sports a fu manchu and waers a fur coat on the sidelines is $$$ in the bank. Could you imagine if he pulled that stuff today?? F Reggie Bush's marketability, Namath would be EVERYWHERE...
Any guy who sports a fu manchu and waers a fur coat on the sidelines is $$$ in the bank. Could you imagine if he pulled that stuff today?? F Reggie Bush's marketability, Namath would be EVERYWHERE...
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
Take away Jan 12 1969, Namath is a nobody. Look up the numbers by God.
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
Funny thing is, Jones is doing well and I'm sure no one knows who the hell he is. That shoudl tell you something. Bert Jones was a stud.
Tony Jabroni
Footballguy
Well, for starters Bert Jones is a flippin' TE...was that necessary?Brett Favre...
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
Bert Jones had more talent than both Namath and Aikman, and it isn't close. He won 3 straight division titles and should have won a SB. Throw an NFL MVP in there also.
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
Fla\/\/ed
Facenda's Voice
Footballguy
Bert Jones
chris1969
Footballguy
All right you guys made me go look it up.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/JoneBe00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/NamaJo00.htm
look at the stats and tell me I'm wrong
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/JoneBe00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/NamaJo00.htm
look at the stats and tell me I'm wrong
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Jones and Namath especially both suffered injuries, so we never really got to see what they could have been. The way people use the word "talent" now, I think Namath would have really been up there -- he had bad knees before he even got to the NFL. Had he been able to stay healthy, he could have really been something else.
No doubt that Jones' 1976 season was better than anything Namath ever did, although Namath was the first QB to ever throw for 4000 yards in a season. Super impressive what Jones was able to do with such an inferior supporting cast. You think of the guys like Montana, Manning, Young, Culpepper who have had amazing seasons, and they all had HOFers to help them out.
Young's '76 season actually reminds me a ton of Chris Chandler's 1998 year. Eerily similar.
Young: 207/343, 3104, 24 TD/9 INT
Chandler: 190/327, 3154, 25 TD/12 INT
Here's a trivia question few people would get: the top four seasons since 1960 in terms of Y/A are Kurt Warner (in 2000), Chris Chandler ('98), Len Dawson ('68) and Ken Stabler ('76).
No doubt that Jones' 1976 season was better than anything Namath ever did, although Namath was the first QB to ever throw for 4000 yards in a season. Super impressive what Jones was able to do with such an inferior supporting cast. You think of the guys like Montana, Manning, Young, Culpepper who have had amazing seasons, and they all had HOFers to help them out.
Young's '76 season actually reminds me a ton of Chris Chandler's 1998 year. Eerily similar.
Young: 207/343, 3104, 24 TD/9 INT
Chandler: 190/327, 3154, 25 TD/12 INT
Here's a trivia question few people would get: the top four seasons since 1960 in terms of Y/A are Kurt Warner (in 2000), Chris Chandler ('98), Len Dawson ('68) and Ken Stabler ('76).
Noahs Troopers
Footballguy
Explain please.
Noahs Troopers
Footballguy
chris1969
Footballguy
Confuscious say Chase Stuart is a wise and knowledgable man. For Chase refrained from talking out of his butt.
I would take Jones if it were 1976, I would take Namath any other time.
BTW do you happen to be "THE" Chase Stuart that sponsered The Namath page or are you a freakin TE!!!
I would take Jones if it were 1976, I would take Namath any other time.
BTW do you happen to be "THE" Chase Stuart that sponsered The Namath page or are you a freakin TE!!!
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
Namath has Super Bowl 3, Aikman has the SBs of the early 90's with a super team, Bert Jones has an MVP, 3 div titles, with a bad defense. I'll take Bert Jones as a franchise QB over Namath and Aikman anyday. He was the ultimate leader. I remember the Colts of that era would hold hands in the huddle. Jones was a leader, he just had a neck/back injury that ended his career.
When comparing across different eras, you have to say whether we're supposed to grade on a curve. Aikman had the best size, the best arm, and probably the best athleticsm of those guys -- and definitely the best understanding of complicated offensive and defensive schemes. Not even close. And that's one of the more important attributes a QB can have in today's NFL.So if you throw each of those guys (in their prime) into the 2006 New York Jets QB competition, Aikman should be a big favorite to win the job.
But if we're grading them in comparison to their peers at the time, rather than in comparison to each other, it's a very different story.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I don't think many people would say Aikman's arm was better than Namath's. I know it's all subjective, but Namath's bset attribute is his cannon arm. Not many guys could ever throw 25-yard outs, but Namath was one of them.
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
The difference between Aikman and Jones, is that Aikman couldn't have done what Jones did with that Baltimore team. Pure and simple, Aikman was a system QB, and Jones was an innovator.
Aikman could throw a 25-yard out.I think the weaker-armed QBs from the 90s had stronger arms than the stronger-armed QBs from the 60s.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
That's an interesting theory; in that case I'd say that Namath had one of the very strongest arms in the 60s and Aikman didn't have one of the very strongest arms in the 80s. Strong, yes, but not the strongest.I'm not sure I buy that theory though. I'll admit I'm mostly in the dark about what makes up arm strnegth, but I don't think weight and strength training has a ton to do with it. I know the brain doctor thinks that some brain types are best for throwing the ball hard and far, and if that's the case, I'm not sure the era matters at all.
chris1969
Footballguy
LOL, no i'm just not hanging on to the 3rd longest game in history and looking at everything else.
Namath went to 5 Pro Bowls and won consistently with poor talent. He took too many gambles, but he won more than he lost.
Bert Jones was more conservative, but other than 1976 had average numbers. He went to 1 Pro Bowl in 1976. He was a much more mobile QB than Namath and he's one of my Favorite QB's. I don't doubt you know Bert Jones, I just doubt you know Broadway Joe.
Namath went to 5 Pro Bowls and won consistently with poor talent. He took too many gambles, but he won more than he lost.
Bert Jones was more conservative, but other than 1976 had average numbers. He went to 1 Pro Bowl in 1976. He was a much more mobile QB than Namath and he's one of my Favorite QB's. I don't doubt you know Bert Jones, I just doubt you know Broadway Joe.
Facenda's Voice
Footballguy
I remember the Chargers wanted Bert Jones long after he retired. He threw some passes at some event, which caused this, and he was 40+. Quite funny actually. Bert Jones was a special talent and leader.;
As a very simple measure, you could just see how far guys can throw. Some guys today are throwing 80+ yards. That was absolutely unheard of a few decades ago.It's like how pro athletes are generally faster today, or can jump higher, or can serve a tennis ball faster. (The last one is a particularly good example because a throwing motion is very similar to a serving motion. Look at the MPH on today's serves compared to a few decades ago. Or compare fastballs in baseball.)
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Facenda's Voice
Footballguy
FYI, Bert Jones was known as the 100 mph guy of his time, with great leadership ability. He won an MVP, led his team to 3 div titles, but got an injury that cost him his career.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think running faster and jumping higher is a bit different. Tennis is a hard one because of all the technological improvements in the racket.I don't really know how fast pitchers threw in the 60s or 70s, but I agree that'd be a good example.
I think arm strength is largely genetic though. If it wasn't, there's no reason Chad Pennington's arm strength would be a limitation. The increase in population and the elimination of the racial barrier probably has more to do with it than anything, since that just means the guys at the top will be better.
So maybe you're right, Aikman in a vacuum did have a stronger arm than Namath. Not sure if we could ever get anything much more definitive than that.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Sad thing about Namath was he could have been a really mobile QB. He was a great runner in college.
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure if you didn't allow anyone 30 and under to vote, Aikman would be in last place. Obviously some don't know their history.
Intelligence is largely genetic as well, but today's chess players are much better than the chess players from early in the century.Speed is largely genetic, but today's sprinters are faster than Jesse Owens.
Nothing is 100% genetic except for, like, eye color. (And I will stipulate that Namath's eyes were bluer than Aikman's.
)
Sure they would, if they'd followed the same path as Aikman -- weights, nutrition, complete dedication to football as early as their high school and college years, etc.But they didn't. Heck, those guys had non-football jobs in the offseason. It was totally different, and people weren't as dedicated, especially not from as early an age.
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chris1969
Footballguy
I agree, but you have to look at how the old guys accomplished more with less resources too! You didn't have the money to hire a personal trainer back then. Also remember that records were not kept as good as they are now. Does anyone remember trying to measure the speed of one of Bob Feller's pitches by having him throw a basball past a speeding motorcycle. BTW, alot of experts put that pitch at about 105 MPH.
That's why when answering these kinds of questions, we first have to be told whether we're supposed to grade on a curve.
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
From the looks of the poll, it's clear there are some intelligent voters out there that doesn't take into account the "current situation of the time".
Edited to say, at least the one's born before 1959.
Edited to say, at least the one's born before 1959.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Intelligence is largely genetic as well, but today's chess players are much better than the chess players from early in the century.Speed is largely genetic, but today's sprinters are faster than Jesse Owens.
Nothing is 100% genetic except for, like, eye color. (And I will stipulate that Namath's eyes were bluer than Aikman's.
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
Who do you think Suzy Kober would go to bed with between Namath or Jones? Obviously Aikman is out of this equation due to youth.Edited to say that Jones wins again. He's definitely better looking than Namath.Intelligence is largely genetic as well, but today's chess players are much better than the chess players from early in the century.Speed is largely genetic, but today's sprinters are faster than Jesse Owens.
Nothing is 100% genetic except for, like, eye color. (And I will stipulate that Namath's eyes were bluer than Aikman's.
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