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Who's the 2016 NFL MVP right now? (1 Viewer)

When the guy that wins the MVP wouldn't even be a top 10 pick in a redraft you know you're doing it wrong. 
Where "it" = "your fantasy football scoring system."

Matt Ryan is more valuable in every football metric than Devonta Freeman. The fact that we start two RBs and only one QB (unlike NFL teams) is the only reason RBs are more valuable in fantasy.

 
Where "it" = "your fantasy football scoring system."

Matt Ryan is more valuable in every football metric than Devonta Freeman. The fact that we start two RBs and only one QB (unlike NFL teams) is the only reason RBs are more valuable in fantasy.
I'm talking about a real NFL redraft. Matt Ryan is unlikely to be a top 10 pick even with the year he put up. 

 
I'm talking about a real NFL redraft. Matt Ryan is unlikely to be a top 10 pick even with the year he put up. 
Again, let's review. The MVP can't come from a team:

- With a running game
- With a defense
- With an offensive line
- With good coaching
- With a good offensive system
- With any other Pro Bowlers

And the player cannot have his season numbers higher than in prior seasons and not be expected to see a 2% drop off the following season. And he must have been considered a Top 10 player seemingly in every year he was in the league. And I guess his team would be 0-16 without him and would instantly make any other team 16-0 by adding him.

Anything else? I am sure there are more criteria I am missing.

Look, Rodgers is one of the best players to ever play the game. He can't be MVP every year, nor should he be. Basing MVP on how many posters you have on your wall is really not part of the voting criteria.

 
Again, let's review. The MVP can't come from a team:

- With a running game
- With a defense
- With an offensive line
- With good coaching
- With a good offensive system
- With any other Pro Bowlers

And the player cannot have his season numbers higher than in prior seasons and not be expected to see a 2% drop off the following season. And he must have been considered a Top 10 player seemingly in every year he was in the league. And I guess his team would be 0-16 without him and would instantly make any other team 16-0 by adding him.

Anything else? I am sure there are more criteria I am missing.

Look, Rodgers is one of the best players to ever play the game. He can't be MVP every year, nor should he be. Basing MVP on how many posters you have on your wall is really not part of the voting criteria.
Yeah didn't say anything of that but that's a mess of strawmen. Aaron Rodgers is more valuable than Matt Ryan. His performance and the situation he finds himself in this year has proven that without a doubt. 

 
Aaron Rodgers is the better player by far than Matt Ryan.

Aaron Rodgers has been asked to do more than Matt Ryan.

Aaron Rodgers supporting cast is inferior to Matt Ryan's. 

Matt Ryan put up slightly better numbers in some categories than Rodgers on a vastly more balanced and talented team.

Matt Ryan's team won one more game than Aaron Rodgers won on his own. 

I think my work is done here. 

 
Aaron Rodgers is the better player by far than Matt Ryan.

Aaron Rodgers has been asked to do more than Matt Ryan.

Aaron Rodgers supporting cast is inferior to Matt Ryan's. 

Matt Ryan put up slightly better numbers in some categories than Rodgers on a vastly more balanced and talented team.

Matt Ryan's team won one more game than Aaron Rodgers won on his own. 

I think my work is done here. 
Aaron Rogers has a State Farm Discount Double Check TD celebration.  Matt Ryan has none.  Score one for Rogers

Atlanta played the toughest schedule in the NFL...Green Bay played the easiest. Score one for Ryan.

 
1. Rodgers is the better QB, not even debatable.
2. Given the way this award is handed out, and how voting works, Ryan is the most deserving player and likely is going to win it.

 
This is well said.  No one will argue that Rogers is the best QB in the league right now.  He is playing on another level.  And as of pure value to his team he is more valuable then Ryan is to his.

But that is not how the award is given.  Yes, it is probably misnamed.  But this award will go to the top statistical player from one of the top teams.

 
Aaron Rogers has a State Farm Discount Double Check TD celebration.  Matt Ryan has none.  Score one for Rogers

Atlanta played the toughest schedule in the NFL...Green Bay played the easiest. Score one for Ryan.
lol I'm going to ignore the first statement. Regarding the second one though if Rodgers was on the Falcons this year would Atlanta have more wins and would he have put up better stats than Ryan?

 
lol I'm going to ignore the first statement. Regarding the second one though if Rodgers was on the Falcons this year would Atlanta have more wins and would he have put up better stats than Ryan?
I think so. Consider Rodgers doesn't have one of the best 3 WRs in the game on his roster, and he'd probably kill to have one of ATLs RBs. 
I'm not sure there are many people out there who would take Ryan over Rodgers. Rodgers is a great QB. Ryan is good but more of a product of his system. Not discounting what he has done... he had a great year and probably will win the MVP deservingly. 

 
lol I'm going to ignore the first statement. Regarding the second one though if Rodgers was on the Falcons this year would Atlanta have more wins and would he have put up better stats than Ryan?
I think the Falcons with Rodgers at QB might have won one additional game, but I don't see Rodgers with stats markedly different than Ryan's. 

Rodgers was THE offense in GB this year, they had no running game; that was not the issue in Atl.  If/when Ryan had them up, they were able to run the ball to end games.  Rodgers didn't have that luxury in GB.  I think Rodgers would have put up comparable numbers if he'd been Atl's QB.

And, Ryan is the MVP, IMO.

 
1. Rodgers is the better QB, not even debatable.
2. Given the way this award is handed out, and how voting works, Ryan is the most deserving player and likely is going to win it.

 
This is well said.  No one will argue that Rogers is the best QB in the league right now.  He is playing on another level.  And as of pure value to his team he is more valuable then Ryan is to his.

But that is not how the award is given.  Yes, it is probably misnamed.  But this award will go to the top statistical player from one of the top teams.
:goodposting: x 2

we go through the "the MVP is misnamed" discussion every year it seems

 
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I think the Falcons with Rodgers at QB might have won one additional game, but I don't see Rodgers with stats markedly different than Ryan's. 

Rodgers was THE offense in GB this year, they had no running game; that was not the issue in Atl.  If/when Ryan had them up, they were able to run the ball to end games.  Rodgers didn't have that luxury in GB.  I think Rodgers would have put up comparable numbers if he'd been Atl's QB.

And, Ryan is the MVP, IMO.
So Rodgers put up better TD/INT ration and was close in yards and YPA "without" a running game or the best WR in the league and you think he wouldn't have put up better numbers than Ryan did if he was in Atlanta. Let me ask it in a different way, what kind of numbers would Matt Ryan have put up this year in GB without a running game?

 
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lol I'm going to ignore the first statement. Regarding the second one though if Rodgers was on the Falcons this year would Atlanta have more wins and would he have put up better stats than Ryan?
No one knows these kinds of hypotheticals.  It's quite possible that Rogers would have struggled just like Ryan did last year learning the offense if hypothetically this was his first year in it. Rogers did what he did with the team he's on and Ryan did what he did on the teams he's on.  Why make a silly comparison on something no one can ever know.  I will say this.  From last year to this year Ryan spent more time in the off-season Mastering an offense that he struggled with last year and it showed.  TD passes to 13 different players is something that no QB has ever done - you should list that as one of the comparison stats too. I think Ryan worked harder in 2016 at his craft than Rogers did...and the results showed.  (and that's not taking away anything from how great Rogers is).  By the sum of all measures, Ryan was the better QB in 2016.  Ryan MVP.

 
No one knows these kinds of hypotheticals.  It's quite possible that Rogers would have struggled just like Ryan did last year learning the offense if hypothetically this was his first year in it. Rogers did what he did with the team he's on and Ryan did what he did on the teams he's on.  Why make a silly comparison on something no one can ever know.  I will say this.  From last year to this year Ryan spent more time in the off-season Mastering an offense that he struggled with last year and it showed.  TD passes to 13 different players is something that no QB has ever done - you should list that as one of the comparison stats too. I think Ryan worked harder in 2016 at his craft than Rogers did...and the results showed.  (and that's not taking away anything from how great Rogers is).  By the sum of all measures, Ryan was the better QB in 2016.  Ryan MVP.
LOL Ryan worked harder.

 
So Rodgers put up better TD/INT ration and was close in yards and YPA "without" a running game or the best WR in the league and you think he wouldn't have put up better numbers than Ryan did if he was in Atlanta. Let me ask it in a different way, what kind of numbers would Matt Ryan have put up this year in GB without a running game?
Ryan had 2.0 YPA more than Rodgers. Two yards on every throw is not exactly close. For comparison, the QB who had 2.0 YPA less than Rodgers was Jared Goff, last in the NFL in YPA (min 100 att). The only time that Rodgers had a YPA as good as Ryan's was this year was ... never. Though he was within a couple hundredths of a yard in his 2011 MVP season, when Jordy Nelson emerged and Greg Jennings was still in his prime.

 
So Rodgers put up better TD/INT ration and was close in yards and YPA "without" a running game or the best WR in the league and you think he wouldn't have put up better numbers than Ryan did if he was in Atlanta. Let me ask it in a different way, what kind of numbers would Matt Ryan have put up this year in GB without a running game?
Since he's not as good a QB (IMO) as Rodgers, I'd expect Ryan would have done poorer.  That doesn't make my earlier response any less accurate, though. Rodgers had 500 fewer passing yards on 76 more Attempts.  At the end of games, when other teams would hand the ball off, Rodgers was still throwing, because they had to. Give Ryan another 76 attempts, he'd have another 600+ yards & 3-4 more TDs.

 
In what universe is having 2 pro-bowl receivers plus a 3rd very efficient/productive WR, a league-best pass blocking offensive line, and a converted WR as the starting rb a bear case for passing statistics? Oh and a below average defense for much of the year which optimized game script.

 
The narrative that Rodgers doesn't have a good supporting cast is comical. I was arguing with some Packers fan over Twitter last night who said the Packers receiving corps is bottom 5 in the league and their offense would be like the Rams without a top 15 QB. Rodgers has one of the best supporting casts in the league, especially when you factor in the offensive line which gives him forever to throw the ball. 

People are trying wayyyyy too hard to justify Rodgers being the MVP. No one is saying Ryan is the better player, we all know Rodgers is, but Ryan simply had a better year and did so with arguably worse talent around him. If MVP was a best player award, LeBron would NBA MVP every year.

 
In what universe is having 2 pro-bowl receivers plus a 3rd very efficient/productive WR, a league-best pass blocking offensive line, and a converted WR as the starting rb a bear case for passing statistics? Oh and a below average defense for much of the year which optimized game script.
Well, when discussing YPA, it is much harder to have success throwing when every single play the defense is really only worried about one thing- Rodgers.  Atlanta is much more balanced and you have to worry about either RB ripping off a long one.  For Rodgers to play like he did given what he had to face each week is remarkable. 

 
Well, when discussing YPA, it is much harder to have success throwing when every single play the defense is really only worried about one thing- Rodgers.  Atlanta is much more balanced and you have to worry about either RB ripping off a long one.  For Rodgers to play like he did given what he had to face each week is remarkable. 
For as much as everyone rips the Packers RB's and hypes up the Falcons, the Packers YPC was pretty much identical to the Falcons. (4.5 YPC for GB, 4.6 for ATL). The Falcons talent at RB is definitely better, but the fact that their YPC's are pretty much the same and Rodgers was hit 30 less times than Ryan shows how much better his OL is, which is HUGE. Rodgers had 5+ seconds to throw multiple times yesterday and that was against one of the best defenses in the league. 

 
Ryan had 2.0 YPA more than Rodgers. Two yards on every throw is not exactly close. For comparison, the QB who had 2.0 YPA less than Rodgers was Jared Goff, last in the NFL in YPA (min 100 att). The only time that Rodgers had a YPA as good as Ryan's was this year was ... never. Though he was within a couple hundredths of a yard in his 2011 MVP season, when Jordy Nelson emerged and Greg Jennings was still in his prime.
So what would Ryan's YPA been on the Packers with no running game? 

 
For as much as everyone rips the Packers RB's and hypes up the Falcons, the Packers YPC was pretty much identical to the Falcons. (4.5 YPC for GB, 4.6 for ATL). The Falcons talent at RB is definitely better, but the fact that their YPC's are pretty much the same and Rodgers was hit 30 less times than Ryan shows how much better his OL is, which is HUGE. Rodgers had 5+ seconds to throw multiple times yesterday and that was against one of the best defenses in the league. 
Wrong again. Rogers has elite pocket presence. Something Ryan isn't bad at but not special really. It's not Ryan's fault he's a good QB just not elite at anything really except working hard apparently. 

 
Well, when discussing YPA, it is much harder to have success throwing when every single play the defense is really only worried about one thing- Rodgers.  Atlanta is much more balanced and you have to worry about either RB ripping off a long one.  For Rodgers to play like he did given what he had to face each week is remarkable. 
It really is. It's absolutely insane what he did this year. Ryan had a nice year. Rodgers put himself in the best ever discussion considering how he performed given his circumstances. I'm honestly not sure any other QB that's ever played could have pulled it off. 

 
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Wrong again. Rogers has elite pocket presence. Something Ryan isn't bad at but not special really. It's not Ryan's fault he's a good QB just not elite at anything really except working hard apparently. 
Rodgers pocket presence is great. That has nothing to do with his o-line being better than Ryan's though. Sure, maybe it effects the QB hits a bit, but anyone who watches the two teams knows that Rodgers protection is far better than Ryan's.

 
The Packers turnover differential in their winning streak is 17-1. Brady, Ryan, Alex Smith, and many other QBs would have won those games just as easily. Sure, Rodgers would probably have had better stats. GB averaged 110 rushing yards per game in their 7 game win streak, so it's not like their only offense was through the air. And when GB played ATL , , , ATL won, even though at one point GB had an 84% chance to win in the 4th quarter. I guess in that instance, it was everyone else's fault but Rodgers. Yes, Rodgers played well, just not well enough to win.

 
And since predicting how teams would have done with different players is now "a thing," what would the Browns or Niners records have been with Rodgers?

 
Well, when discussing YPA, it is much harder to have success throwing when every single play the defense is really only worried about one thing- Rodgers.  Atlanta is much more balanced and you have to worry about either RB ripping off a long one.  For Rodgers to play like he did given what he had to face each week is remarkable. 
When discussing YPA, a dominant running game is certainly beneficial. But given their situations, Rodgers should have had better gross passing stats. But in fact Rodgers' raw #s were basically on par with, if not a bit below, Ryan's stats.

 
Rodgers pocket presence is great. That has nothing to do with his o-line being better than Ryan's though. Sure, maybe it effects the QB hits a bit, but anyone who watches the two teams knows that Rodgers protection is far better than Ryan's.
Not sure if you're serious. LOL It effected it but it didn't? Is that what you're saying. Please watch Rodgers 1st TD pass last night and get back to me.

 
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And since predicting how teams would have done with different players is now "a thing," what would the Browns or Niners records have been with Rodgers?
I only bring it up because most of the Ryan fan boys keep bringing up stats and you specifically have brought up wins. It seems like an appropriate question to answer and factor into the MVP discussion when talking about numbers. I believe GB would not have made the playoffs with Ryan at QB. If Rodgers was on ATL they would be the SB favorites right now.

 
Not sure if you're serious. LOL It effected it but it didn't? Is that what you're saying. Please watch Rodgers 1st TD pass last night and get back to me.
It effects how many QB hits each guy took, but it doesn't take away the fact that Rodgers o-line is better than Ryan's.

On that 1st TD pass, Rodgers shows good pocket awareness and movement, but there isn't any serious pressure until 5-6 seconds into the play. QB's dream of having that much time to hang in the pocket and throw.

 
It effects how many QB hits each guy took, but it doesn't take away the fact that Rodgers o-line is better than Ryan's.

On that 1st TD pass, Rodgers shows good pocket awareness and movement, but there isn't any serious pressure until 5-6 seconds into the play. QB's dream of having that much time to hang in the pocket and throw.
Qb's can and do make their OL's better. It's actually a thing.  I'll just leave it at that.

 
I only bring it up because most of the Ryan fan boys keep bringing up stats and you specifically have brought up wins. It seems like an appropriate question to answer and factor into the MVP discussion when talking about numbers. I believe GB would not have made the playoffs with Ryan at QB. If Rodgers was on ATL they would be the SB favorites right now.
I beg to differ. Rodgers would have had to played significantly better than he did in GB to make ATL better. And the Falcons flaws have nothing to do with the offense. So I don't think they would be SB favorites. IMO, their record and SB chances would be the same.

 
I beg to differ. Rodgers would have had to played significantly better than he did in GB to make ATL better. And the Falcons flaws have nothing to do with the offense. So I don't think they would be SB favorites. IMO, their record and SB chances would be the same.
LOL so Ryan's as good as Rodgers in your mind? Interesting.

 
Qb's can and do make their OL's better. It's actually a thing.  I'll just leave it at that.
I agree with that, but the Packers OL would still be good without Rodgers. On that TD, Rodgers doesn't even need to show his pocket awareness/movement skills until 5-6 seconds into the play, which most QB's never get. There were multiple times Rodgers had that much time to throw yesterday and that was against one of the best defenses in the NFL. When the QB is hanging in the pocket that long, that has nothing to do with him, that is the OL just being amazing. Another testament to the OL is the Packers YPC being at 4.5 when they trotted out Eddie Lacy, James Starks, and a converted WR learning RB in the middle of the season as their RB's.

 
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Across their careers, no. This year, potentially. I know that this may come as a shock, but people can have different opinions and we all don't have to agree.
So you think Matt Ryan is as good as Aaron Rodgers this year potentially?

 
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That Atlanta game is a great game to reference too. The Falcons won at home by 1 point. Can't take that away from them. The Packers had a decent day running the ball too. They ran for 107 yards that day at 5.7 YPC. Pretty solid. Aaron Rodgers ran for 60 of those yards. He was their leading rusher too. It's just one more thing he does better than Ryan. Just saying.

 
For as much as everyone rips the Packers RB's and hypes up the Falcons, the Packers YPC was pretty much identical to the Falcons. (4.5 YPC for GB, 4.6 for ATL). The Falcons talent at RB is definitely better, but the fact that their YPC's are pretty much the same and Rodgers was hit 30 less times than Ryan shows how much better his OL is, which is HUGE. Rodgers had 5+ seconds to throw multiple times yesterday and that was against one of the best defenses in the league. 
This is true, when you factor in Rodgers' 5.5 YPC.  If you take his 369 rushing yards on 67 carries out of the equation, GB averaged 4.3 YPC.  Atlanta also ran the ball  approximately 80 more times than GB, making the long runs have less of an impact on the overall YPC.

 
Air yards + rushing yards + total TDs + total turnovers 

Aaron Rodgers - 2757-44-9

AIR yards per completion 5.95

Matt Ryan - 2684-38-7

Air yards per completion 6.88

Puts a dent in those arguing Matt Ryan had more yards.......

 
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At this point I am ready to conclude one of the following. Not sure which though. Milkman is either Aaron Rodgers mother, wants to bear his children, or is my wife.

Let's cut this to the core. Matt Ryan is the MVP because Matt Ryan is the MVP. Any statements beyond that are irrelevant, but if there needs to be a justification, better numbers on a team with a better record that earned a bye. All the hyperbole, rhetoric, and playing musical chairs of who is on which roster doesn't change that the single most significant stat in MVP creiteria is actually team record.

Hats off to Rodgers. He had a great year and is still playing. But he won't have to make space in his trophy case because he won't be the 2016 NFL MVP. It happens.

 
Was looking at Rosenthal's MVP ranks on NFL.com and he doesn't even have Rodger's in the top 3 for MVP.  He has it as Brady, Ryan, Elliott and then Rodgers.

 
I dont need to attack you personally Anarchy. My arguments do just fine on their own. 
But you aren't arguing with anyone at this point. You are immediately ignoring any TANGIBLE information that is brought forward and instead doubling and tripling down on your OPINION and offering it up as unassailable FACT. All we know is what happened. No one knows or can prove what didn't happen. Put Rodgers on another team and they could have gone 0-16. Unlikely, sure, but not impossible.

You have stated your conclusion from the start and reverse engineered an argument based on opinion to prove your case. That's as fair and unbiased as the Wells Report. You want to say the sky is orange and then insist on that when anyone else thinks otherwise.

 
Def not arguing Rodgers will win it. Lol @ having any RB in front of a top QB though. It's not possible for top RB to be as valuable as top QB. 

 
Def not arguing Rodgers will win it. Lol @ having any RB in front of a top QB though. It's not possible for top RB to be as valuable as top QB. 
It's not impossible but unlikely.  Many of the rankings I just looked at have either Ryan or Brady as the top player followed by Rodgers and then closely by Elliott.  It seems many really knocked Rodgers for his first half of the season.

 
But you aren't arguing with anyone at this point. You are immediately ignoring any TANGIBLE information that is brought forward and instead doubling and tripling down on your OPINION and offering it up as unassailable FACT. All we know is what happened. No one knows or can prove what didn't happen. Put Rodgers on another team and they could have gone 0-16. Unlikely, sure, but not impossible.

You have stated your conclusion from the start and reverse engineered an argument based on opinion to prove your case. That's as fair and unbiased as the Wells Report. You want to say the sky is orange and then insist on that when anyone else thinks otherwise.
I put plenty of stats up. More TD'S. More total air yards + rushing yards. Less help. 

The if you switched them question was legitimate because it shows nobody would take Ryan over Rodgers which is important in this context. 

 
I put plenty of stats up. More TD'S. More total air yards + rushing yards. Less help. 

The if you switched them question was legitimate because it shows nobody would take Ryan over Rodgers which is important in this context. 
You're argument over teams taking one or the other is really ridiculous and has absolutely nothing to do with this year's MVP race.  We all know that Rodgers is the better overall QB based on their careers but Ryan is having the better season this year and that is why he deserves the award.  If they went by your argument Rodgers would just win the MVP award every year.

 

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