What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Who's the 2016 NFL MVP right now? (1 Viewer)

bostonfred said:
I get that you'll never give him credit for that, for whatever reason
Click to expand...
I saw that you didn't give him credit for that and I didn't read the reason. It doesn't matter. You're a fan, I'm a fan, we all see things differently. I was defending Breer, not Brady.

 
As a side note for those saying the Pats have such great skill players, most of them could have been picked up by other teams and no one wanted them. Edleman became a free agent and ended up coming back to NE for low dollars. Three times Blount was available and no one else picked him up. Lewis was picked up off a scrap heap. The Bears made it clear they wanted to jettison Bennett and any team could have made a better offer than the Pats mid round pick. The only true gem is Gronk and he missed the majority of the season. 

None of that makes Brady the MVP, but he clearly has not had a lot of top shelf options to throw to besides Gronk the past few years. Clearly no one should feel sorry for Brady, but he makes his receivers better far more than the receivers make Brady. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
As a side note for those saying the Pats have such great skill players, most of them could have been picked up by other teams and no one wanted them. Edleman became a free agent and ended up coming back to NE for low dollars. Three times Blount was available and no one else picked him up. Lewis was picked up off a scrap heap. The Bears made it clear they wanted to jettison Bennett and any team could have made a better offer than the Pats mid round pick. The only true gem is Gronk and he missed the majority of the season. 

None of that makes Brady the MVP, but he clearly has not had a lot of top shelf options to throw to besides Gronk the past few years. Clearly no one should feel sorry for Brady, but he makes his receivers better far more than the receivers make Brady. 
Click to expand...
Anyone saying he has great skill players aside from Gronk can't be serious.  But his coach and defense help more than any other coach/defense combo. Playing with a lead most of the time helps a ton too.

 
I don't think anyone is saying they have great skill players.  Everyone knows Gronk is the best TE but the rest are just decent guys on a good team that is very well coached.  I think if you put any of these guys on any other teams, Brady included, they would not have had the same careers.  I think everything this team has done over the years has more to do with Belichick than anything else, even Brady.  Brady just happened to be that extra piece the pushed them into the next level though.  To me it was a perfect marriage with Brady and Belichick.

Do most here think Brady has the same career with any other team?  I think it's unlikely.

Regardless of any of that said, has Brady really had an MVP caliber season compared to MVP seasons we've seen in the past?  If he wins the MVP I feel it would be one of the more mediocre MVP seasons.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Gronk was pretty good those four weeks this year. Lewis missed over half the season and Bennett has been playing on one ankle for most of the year. 

There was no Jody Nelson or Julio Jones for Brady this year. All this doesn't mean Brady should be the MVP, but at some point he deserves some credit. People want to knock him for having good coaching and a solid defense, but he has no control over that. 

Where were people years ago when the Niners had the best offense, the best defense, the best coaching, the best WR to ever play, and a dual threat RB. I don't remember people saying Montana had it easy. 
Click to expand...
Or when Montana missed four games and still won the mvp lol

 
Anarchy99 said:
Montana never missed 4 games and won MVP.He was MVP in 89 and 90 and played in 13 and 15 games.
Click to expand...
Not sure why some are even using Montana as a comparison.  You would have to go back to those seasons and look at how he contributed to his team winning and what his competition was for MVP.  It's not just a simple comparison.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Not sure why some are even using Montana as a comparison.  You would have to go back to those seasons and look at how he contributed to his team winning and what his competition was for MVP.  It's not just a simple comparison.
Click to expand...
1990

Winner
49ers quarterback Joe Montana (26 votes) — 14-1 record, 61.7 percent, 3,944 yards, 26 TD, 16 INT

Runners-up
Eagles quarterback Randall Cunningham (18 votes)
Oilers quarterback Warren Moon (16 votes)
Bills defensive end Bruce Smith (11 votes)
Bills quarterback Jim Kelly (5 votes)
Chiefs quarterback Steve Deberg (3 votes)
49ers wide receiver Jerry Rice (1 vote)

1989

Winner
49ers quarterback Joe Montana (62 votes) — 11-2 record, 70.2 percent, 26 TD, 8 INT

Runners-up
Packers quarterback Don Majkowski (6 votes)
Vikings defensive tackle Keith Millard (2 votes)

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Not sure why some are even using Montana as a comparison.  You would have to go back to those seasons and look at how he contributed to his team winning and what his competition was for MVP.  It's not just a simple comparison.
Click to expand...
Simply because someone brought up team composition and relative whatever. Montana played on an amazing team, won the MVP running a west coast offense in a time when people didnt know how to stop it, and no salary cap - and he missed 3 games. No one mentions these relative factors because they arent important to the award. He had a great season, as the most important player (despite missing 3 games the team still went 14-2) on the best team.

 
Run It Up said:
Simply because someone brought up team composition and relative whatever. Montana played on an amazing team, won the MVP running a west coast offense in a time when people didnt know how to stop it, and no salary cap - and he missed 3 games. No one mentions these relative factors because they arent important to the award. He had a great season, as the most important player (despite missing 3 games the team still went 14-2) on the best team.
Click to expand...
Is that comparable to Brady this season?

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Is that comparable to Brady this season?
Click to expand...
Not a whole lot. Brady is having a great season despite whoever above said he was having a mediocre season for an MVP candidate. He missed time obviously, but he is playing on a great team as a collective, running an atypical offense that the league struggles against. At the same time Ryan is having a great season also, hes had to overcome his own share of adversity and looks better than he ever has - while still having the same amount of wins as Brady in 4 more games.

Closest MVP race imo in a long time, bias has me leaning Brady, but I could see it going either way. The missing X time arguments are terrible though.

 
Montana set a record for the highest QB rating in history in that '89 season, had a single season completion rate above 70% which was like 3rd best ever at the time and is still in the top 10 in history. He played lights out that year with no else even close.

Coincidentally, Ryan is currently at 69.5%, Brady's all time best was his record breaking 50 TD season with 68.5%. Of course completion rate isn't exactly a predictor for MVP either, Brees has 3 of the top seasons in history and no MVP's to show for it.

 
Run It Up said:
Not a whole lot. Brady is having a great season despite whoever above said he was having a mediocre season for an MVP candidate. He missed time obviously, but he is playing on a great team as a collective, running an atypical offense that the league struggles against. At the same time Ryan is having a great season also, hes had to overcome his own share of adversity and looks better than he ever has - while still having the same amount of wins as Brady in 4 more games.

Closest MVP race imo in a long time, bias has me leaning Brady, but I could see it going either way. The missing X time arguments are terrible though.
Click to expand...
I said it was a mediocre MVP season.  It doesn't seem all that spectacular to me.  I look at his season and just see another good Brady season on a good NE team.  I don't see it as being above and beyond anything and that's usually what I look for with an MVP.  Ryan's year seems more impressive to me.  Even Stafford's year seems more impressive considering how he's led his team to so many 4th quarter wins.

There is certainly good competition for MVP this year.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
There is certainly good competition for MVP this year.
Click to expand...
That's exactly it.  Good. 5 players having very good seasons.  None of their seasons are exceptional.  I honestly don't know which qb I'd vote for, but it's a 3 dog race - Brady, Ryan and Rodgers.  Ryan is the one without any reason to not vote for him (real or imagined). 

 
Workhorse said:
Ryan is having a historically great season by any objective standard. He's the clear MVP in my mind.
Click to expand...
After reading the Ryan cheerleaders arguments in the this thread and looking more at it online, he really does have one hell of a resume this year, I think he should win it too.

 
Here are the top 10 seasons since 1988 by era-adjusted ANY/att, min 350 passes (this is PFR's favorite passing efficiency stat):

Peyton Manning 2004 *
Aaron Rodgers 2011 *
Tom Brady 2007 *
Joe Montana 1989 *
Matt Ryan 2016
Mark Rypien 1991
Steve Young 1994 *
Randall Cunningham 1998
Peyton Manning 2013 *
Steve Young 1992 *

* won MVP

 
ZWK said:
Here are the top 10 seasons since 1988 by era-adjusted ANY/att, min 350 passes (this is PFR's favorite passing efficiency stat):

Peyton Manning 2004 *
Aaron Rodgers 2011 *
Tom Brady 2007 *
Joe Montana 1989 *
Matt Ryan 2016
Mark Rypien 1991
Steve Young 1994 *
Randall Cunningham 1998
Peyton Manning 2013 *
Steve Young 1992 *

* won MVP
Click to expand...
Ryan is at 8.90 this year. Brady is at 8.70.

 
Haven't read all the posts, but here is my :2cents:

1. Its wide open & the last weekend could decide the mvp.

2. Unfortunately for Zeke & Dak they likely don't play more than a 1/4 so they lose show points plus w their ol they all cancel each other out. Even though they r all worthy candidates w zeke in particular getting it done 4 me all yr!

3. If Ryan plays well and Falcons win he gets it imho.

4. IF Ryan doesn't play well it opens the door for Brady or Rodgers. 

4b. Rodgers could win w big game, knock = played poorly earlier in the yr.

4c. Brady could win w big game, knock = suspended & missed 1st 4 games

Happy New year All!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Haven't read all the posts, but here is my :2cents:

1. Its wide open & the last weekend could decide the mvp.

2. Unfortunately for Zeke & Dak they likely don't play more than a 1/4 so they lose show points plus w their ol they all cancel each other out. Even though they r all worthy candidates w zeke in particular getting it done 4 me all yr!

3. If Ryan plays well and Falcons win he gets it imho.

4. IF Ryan doesn't play well it opens the door for Brady or Rodgers. 

4b. Rodgers could win w big game, knock = played poorly earlier in the yr.

4c. Brady could win w big game, knock = suspended & missed 1st 4 games

Happy New year All!
Click to expand...
Well, if it was coming down to this last weekend then Ryan just ran away with it. 

 
Wouldn't give Brady serious consideration given the suspension. Carr had a chance but the injury sunk him. I'd give it to Zeke over Dak...as well as Dak played he did NOT carry that team and it's very easy to imagine Romo getting similar results. Zeke made a much bigger impact on them IMO.

That leaves Ryan and Rogers. IN that scenario, it has to be Ryan I think. Dude has been lights out ALL year. Rogers has had more sub-par games.

 
Two horse race, really with Ryan v Rodgers - Rodgers has accounted for 44 TDs (40 pa/4 ru) while Ryan 38 TDs all passing.  Ryan has better record 11-5 v Rodgers 10-6.  Both won a division title.  I think more was expected from Rodgers heading into the season, so Ryan gets the edge there.  Tough call.  I discount Brady due to the 4 game suspension, and the Cowboys will cancel each other out.  Carr chances faded with the broken leg.

 
I think until Brady retires he will be the best player in the NFL...but Pats are still pretty good without him....you take Rodgers off the Pack and they are in trouble.....of the teams left I think Rodgers is the most valuable to his team....

 
Rodgers,

Without him the packers don't even sniff the playoffs, and he played lights out down the stretch to make it happen. (not a packer fan here)

 
kegger said:
Rodgers,

Without him the packers don't even sniff the playoffs, and he played lights out down the stretch to make it happen. (not a packer fan here)
Click to expand...
I believe it will come down to how the voters really view this award. If it is the best QB this season then it would be Ryan. If it truly is the most valuable to his team then I could see Rodgers. He has carried that team on his back. 

The thing is I think the award has transferred from most valuable to best player on a top team. 

 
I still think its Ryan and he deserves it, incredible season statistically and his team won the division. Second place doesn't matter at all but easily could be Rodgers, Brady, Dak or  Zeke. 

 
Looking at the five QBs most discussed...

TD vs INT
Rodgers +33
Ryan +31
Brady +26
Carr +22
Prescott +19

YPA
Ryan 9.26 
Brady 8.23
Prescott 7.99
Rodgers 7.26
Carr 7.03

QBR
Ryan 83.4
Brady 83.1
Prescott 81.7
Rodgers 77.0
Carr 61.8

What do I make out of all of this?  Matt Ryan is the MVP. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghost Rider said:
sLooking at the five QBs most discussed...

TD vs INT
Rodgers +33
Ryan +31
Brady +26
Carr +22
Prescott +19

YPA
Ryan 9.26 
Brady 8.23
Prescott 7.99
Rodgers 7.26
Carr 7.03

QBR
Ryan 83.4
Brady 83.1
Prescott 81.7
Rodgers 77.0
Carr 61.8

What do I make out of all of this?  Matt Ryan is the MVP. 
Click to expand...
Part of what I make of this is that QBR is still a flawed stat.  I remember Rodgers having a mediocre, at best, QBR in the recent Chicago game, a game with poor weather, were Rodgers was quite hampered in his mobility, where his receivers left 100 yards and 2 T.D.'s slip through their fingers on perfect throws. Rodgers was gutsy and brilliant in that game.  He sacrificed his body in that game, the QBR did not reflect his play, it reflected team play.

That said, if folks want to give the award to Ryan it is all right by me.  He has had a remarkable year.  His remarkable year includes less T.D.'s thrown than Rodgers, but it was a remarkable year.  His remarkable year does not include any T.D. runs or near as many brilliant runs for drive sustaining first downs as has Rodger's year, but it has been a remarkable year.  If folks want to give it to Brady that's fine too.  He is brilliant.  The new standard for T.D. to interception ration really impresses me.  Outstanding work.  If folks want to remove him from consideration for the suspension I can understand that as well.

In the end I sort of prefer my Q.B. to not get the beauty contest prize.  It seems to cost teams money in contract negotiations, and I prefer my Q.B. to feel slightly slighted.  Question- What to Brady, Rodgers, and Brees all have in common?  Answer- They all have felt slighted in their careers and have used that to forge excellence.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Jacket said:
Nice. Glad to see the best player doing best things.

Why are you posting in a thread about value? 
Click to expand...
Seems pretty easy - you score and protect the ball  = value. Do so better than anyone ever has and you just might be the most valuable. 

Eta: I'm voting for Ryan but it's close between the 3.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
strykerpks said:
I'm a Packer fan and if it isn't Ryan, it's a damn tragedy. Recency effect is stupid. 
Click to expand...
Agreed Ryan...but Rodgers certainly made that decision harder.

not far behind in yards...beat him in TDs plus the rushing numbers

on its own you look at those numbers and they are MVP like for sure

juat happy he is in the conversation and playing well enough to make them a threat even with the defense so banged up

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Travdogg's positional rankings from week 9 onward
Replies
20
Views
3K
TheDirtyWord
TheDirtyWord
Hot Sauce Guy
  • Locked
NYC Shooting was at NFL HQ
Replies
8
Views
415
Joe Bryant
Joe Bryant
G
Two Bad Beats This Weekend
Replies
27
Views
686
Gally
G

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top