Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’m not comparing them in totality, only as it relates to getting jobs and being represented in films.
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Why can't scarlett johannson play a transgendered man? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter quickhands
- Start date
pantherclub
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Her production company was one of the producers of the film. It was slated for a pretty small $30 million dollar budget after New Regency won a bit of a bidding war for it. It seems like it was a pretty hot commodity. It’s already gotten a lot of free marketing so this might help the film overall.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Am I the only one that wasn't going to see this regardless?
Rub and Tug? Who cares? And is that original picture a guy or a girl? Sorry to sound ignorant, but I wouldn't let it touch me.
Rub and Tug? Who cares? And is that original picture a guy or a girl? Sorry to sound ignorant, but I wouldn't let it touch me.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I understand and agree lots of over the top complaining. Part of it is that we can just now see and hear the complaints that exist outside of our social bubble. Also, I think there is a segment of population that gets so mad/frustrated/annoyed with people complaining that they always complain about the complainers. Which ofcourse just turns them into the thing they didn’t like in the first place.
This issue does hit home for me as I’ve discussed here before, I have a trans niece and she’s actually in musical theater. It’s low level kids stuff now but who knows what her future will bring.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
It actually sounds awesome. It’s about a woman who identified as a man and ran prostitution in Pittsburgh in defiance of the mob. It’s beung viewed as an American Hustle style film. Tex (the main character) wasn’t the one giving the HJs lol.
also I’m a sucker for gangster films
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rockaction
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’ll see just about any organized crime movie out there. Even better if it’s based on a true story.
JuniorGong
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Maybe if they get the makeup person from Monster? Didn't think Theron could pull that off ahead of time either.
rockaction
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
JuniorGong
Footballguy
What age did your niece transition if you don’t mind me asking? My 7 year old daughter is in dance and earlier this year one of the girls came in one day with a short haircut and dressed like a boy. Her mom announced to the class that the girl is now a boy and had a new name. Seems awfully young to me.
rockaction
Footballguy
Seems? Yeah, making identity choices at seven sounds like a distinct argument against transgenderism.
rockaction
Footballguy
JuniorGong
Footballguy
Apparently a year earlier the girl wanted to be called Moeshe so her parents started calling her that...not sure if they are starting any hormone therapy or not but seems like the parents give in to any whim of the child.
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JuniorGong
Footballguy
I’m just off an extended timeout so I’m trying to tone down any strong feelings I might have on a subject. Probably leads to better discussions anyways.
rockaction
Footballguy
Ah, I see. I was wondering why I wasn't getting made fun of for a bit. Glad you're back.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
If the logic is applied that ScarJo can’t play a transgendered person, would the same logic apply about a transgendered actor/actress playing a non-transgendered role?
pantherclub
Footballguy
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That’s kind of the heart of the issue. If they were being cast in cis roles, peiold would not complain when the opposite happens.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I posted this in another thread:
So my niece was born a boy. An identical twin at that. From as early as they could express themselves she wanted to hang out with her older sister, play with dolls, paint her nails, play princess, etc. Her brother is such a typical boy: loves sports, fighting, army stuff, etc.
Then came the questions: why do I have a penis? I don't want it. Can I be Dorothy for Halloween? Will my penis go away? Mommy did you used to have a penis?
Then came the kids at school making fun of her for wanting to play with girls, doll, etc. She asked for a My Little Pony shirt when she was like 6 and then when we got it for her she cried and said she didn't want it anymore- she wanted Ironman stuff so the kids at school would be nice to her again.
When she sees old pictures of herself, she asks did I have a penis then too? Does god sometime make mistakes with babies?
Then came depression and saying she wanted to die. Anyway she is in 2nd grade now, fully functions in society as a girl. Still is in therapy, has been to transgender camp and is getting better with her self esteem.
There is zero doubt in my mind Kate is a girl and always was.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Are we saying then that transgender actors/actresses don’t exist? Aren’t for the most part all roles cis roles?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
They exist. Yes most roles aren’t transgendered characters. The community feels like they aren’t given legitimate opportunities for roles. It’s changing slowly as there are are some working trans actors in roles. There are plenty of pieces written about the topic if interested. They could make those arguments far better than I could.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I mostly felt the same way until a transgendered kid entered my family and I saw it all play out before my eyes.
pantherclub
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Okay. Won't get personal and will cool it, so to speak. Too much respect for you and yours. I sincerely hope this ends up well and everybody winds up happy and fulfilled. This can't be the optimal situation. Perhaps I can learn from this.
Peace.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
You were probably pretty young when you knew that you were a boy and liked girls, right?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
She acted like a girl before barely being able to even understand the difference between boys and girls. Not sure if you read my post about it but it really couldn’t have been more obvious to everyone that knew her.
Foosball God
Foos
I don't remember this kind of hoopla when The Crying Game came out.
pantherclub
Footballguy
I get that but at 6? It just seems really weird to me, no offense to you or your family. I know its not a valid comparison but when my kids were six their moods, likes/dislikes, toys pretty much everything changed on a dime and continuously so to take what you described and run with it its just hard for me to process. Again I mean no maliciousness at all.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I get both sides of the topic here, and think that it's just going to be a slow evolution as more and more trans actors enter the equation. I think just saying that X people can only play X people is not going to cut it. It doesn't work that way for people with disabilities, sexual orientations, etc..
Like we have all acknowledged, it's a business and until more trans people are in movies and studios see that they are fairly well received and people see them, they probably aren't going to take too many risks past a low budget indie movie. Trans people are a pretty small percentage of the population, ones acting even smaller still, and good actors of that subset even narrower. I think we will get there over time, but don't think it will (or fully should) get to the point where only gay people play gay people, trans people play trans people, on an on.
Like we have all acknowledged, it's a business and until more trans people are in movies and studios see that they are fairly well received and people see them, they probably aren't going to take too many risks past a low budget indie movie. Trans people are a pretty small percentage of the population, ones acting even smaller still, and good actors of that subset even narrower. I think we will get there over time, but don't think it will (or fully should) get to the point where only gay people play gay people, trans people play trans people, on an on.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
We are not talking about just switching between playing with cars and dolls though.
pantherclub
Footballguy
I think thats the overall point. For the better is the debate. Its a perpetual moving target where IMO some things are justified (the extreme end of metoo) where others are getting comical. (this movie, aziz, hardwick for ex). Its a mad mad world we live in now and raising kids is a total mind####
pantherclub
Footballguy
I mean I guess, but you kindof are. I can see a teenager that has behaved like this over time and through the years but 6 is a hard one for me to understand.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Also as my final post here in an attempt to tie all threads together:
Kate, my transgendered niece, was attending a Catholic school during the beginning of the transition. As one can imagine, this was incredibly difficult and challenging for her. The school, which was named for St. Joan of Arc was open to her changing her name, wearing the girls uniform, etc. That was until the pastor found out. The priest absolutely said no way she could dress as a girl. This is ofcourse rather ironic for anyone that has watched the masterpiece 1928 film The Passion of Joan of Arc that is based on the actual historical transcript from her trial. Part of the trial involved the insistence from church officials that Joan stop dressing as a man. Joan refused. Joan insisted God had spoken to her and told her to take up this mission as a soldier against England. The Bishop and his church court then ordered her to be burnt alive for this. Pretty amazing that this priest runs a school named for this martyr and can’t see the folly of his stance on gender and clothing.
Kate, my transgendered niece, was attending a Catholic school during the beginning of the transition. As one can imagine, this was incredibly difficult and challenging for her. The school, which was named for St. Joan of Arc was open to her changing her name, wearing the girls uniform, etc. That was until the pastor found out. The priest absolutely said no way she could dress as a girl. This is ofcourse rather ironic for anyone that has watched the masterpiece 1928 film The Passion of Joan of Arc that is based on the actual historical transcript from her trial. Part of the trial involved the insistence from church officials that Joan stop dressing as a man. Joan refused. Joan insisted God had spoken to her and told her to take up this mission as a soldier against England. The Bishop and his church court then ordered her to be burnt alive for this. Pretty amazing that this priest runs a school named for this martyr and can’t see the folly of his stance on gender and clothing.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Not remotely. Both my kids switched between both, but neither thought they were a different gender. I think you have to have met and interacted with a trans kid to get it fully.
That said, as a parent I would be hugely torn on when and how much to start the actual physical transformation above and beyond different name and such if my child felt this way. No easy answers for sure.
pantherclub
Footballguy
The bolded is what I was inferring.
And your paragraph is spot on to what my thoughts are.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
As I have said in another thread, I think a lot of this backlash and outrage is coming because it's been locked away from the public discourse for so long and it has corrected to the other end of the spectrum. My hope is that it equalizes more as we are able to have more nuanced discussions about all these topics. Of course with all the social media, I think society is also losing the ability to have nuanced discussions, so I could be wrong.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
But again, it's not black and white because it's a movie "business". They should be considered for the role, but are they right for the part? are they a good actor? are they available for the shooting schedule? will the movie make remotely the same amount of money as they would if a well known actor played the roll?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It's amazing anyone would be offended. If anything it should be the exact opposite. Silly.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
As it relates to the original narrower topic, Scarlett Johansson isn’t simply an actress, she’s a ‘movie star’...a globally recognized entertainment brand that has 2+ decades of work out there that has helped to build most of her public persona. Perhaps more importantly, she’s a significant player in the industry. There is both a unique business and entertainment value to that beyond simply being a working actor.
I just read about the new series Pose on FX which has been critically acclaimed (and renewed for a 2nd season) despite low ratings. I know it’s lauded for its casting of the LGBTQ community and represents progress toward advancing roles for its members. I know little about the plot though. That’s more info than I had an hour ago but shows that I didn’t have ‘all’ the information with regard to cis v transgender roles in the entertainment industry today. So this is obviously a topic in which I’m not an expert.
At the same time, with ScarJo stepping down and setting precedent, I do think that there is a ‘cutting your nose off despite your face’ element to the uproar this caused because other ‘movie stars’ with influence and power might likely steer clear of this material now in attempting to bring it to either the small or big screen.
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northern exposure
Footballguy
I'm out of touch. I kept seeing CIS and Cisgender roles in this thread and had to Google it.
"Cisgender (often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches the sex that they were assigned at birth."
I guess everybody has to be labelled now.
"Cisgender (often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches the sex that they were assigned at birth."
I guess everybody has to be labelled now.
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