BoltNlava
Footballguy
That should be ok..right?
What I get is very thinly disguised from your post. He is selfish and wants all the records...right?
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Why Doesn't Tom Brady Hold Out? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
What I get is very thinly disguised from your post. He is selfish and wants all the records...right?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I wouldn't call it selfish. My definition of selfish would be a guy going out there and hurting his team by being out there to pad his stats. He still led his team to a super bowl appearance last year. He is still easily a top 10 qb in the league (being conservative) and those are difficult to replace especially when they are underpaid.
Can you help me out here and tell me where you are going with this, because I don't get your line of questions.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I think he's at a very fragile point in his career where any major derailment, either physical or organizational, would cause him to call it a career. So while 45 sounds nice, I don't think it is realistic. I think at most he plays this year and possibly next year, but wouldn't be surprised if this is his last year.
Last edited by a moderator:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Because Tom Brady is already the 3rd highest-paid NFL player of all time, and his current contract had a $28 million signing bonus, guaranteeing him that money up front no matter what. That's in addition to the $30 million signing bonus he got when he restructured three years earlier.
Last edited by a moderator:
msudaisy26
Footballguy
IMO a major concussion, torn achilles or something like that he would call it a career. A knee injury, broken bone or something like that I think he comes back.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
BoltNlava
Footballguy
See? what I get from your tone is if he's 45 it's a bad thing...do you not see that? I also agree it would be an anomaly and not seen since what? George Blanda at 41? OH wait ..doing it already.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
My tone? It is a message board, I don't think it is bad if he plays until 45, as long as he is still good. Are you confusing me with a Brady hater or Pats hater? Most people on this board know I am a Pats fan and think Brady is already the best of all time.
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I think there is more to it than an injury scenario. I believe an organizational reason could also cause him to call it a career. The rift between him and BB this past off-season probably had him thinking retirement.
Last edited by a moderator:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
This is why Tom Brady doesn't demand the kind of money you're talking about.
The Pats have played cap games with Brady for years. Yes, he could demand much higher contracts (and did - once, in his 2010 or 11 contract, which made him the highest paid player in the NFL) but instead he's gone with guaranteed money, cash in hand when signing and restructured constantly. It's good business for everyone.
The Pats have played cap games with Brady for years. Yes, he could demand much higher contracts (and did - once, in his 2010 or 11 contract, which made him the highest paid player in the NFL) but instead he's gone with guaranteed money, cash in hand when signing and restructured constantly. It's good business for everyone.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Because: Rings
As much as people (including myself) want to hate on him, the guy is a team player. Either that or he realizes that he makes enough money off his bogus TB12 clinics.
He values something else more than money, and that's legacy. However he wants to achieve it, through football success or other, that's his goal
As much as people (including myself) want to hate on him, the guy is a team player. Either that or he realizes that he makes enough money off his bogus TB12 clinics.
He values something else more than money, and that's legacy. However he wants to achieve it, through football success or other, that's his goal
BoltNlava
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Blanda was 43 when he replaced an injured Lamonica in the AFC Championship game in 1970 vs the Baltimore Colts. Then Bubba Smith promptly beat him up pretty good.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Marauder
Footballguy
This is the way I see it too. He's thinking long term. The more he pads his stats while playing, the more money he will make after he retires.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure his home life and his better half are the driving forces behind any thoughts of Brady retiring. I think it will boil down to Brady will play until his wife won't allow it anymore (on his side of the ledger . . . who knows if that will coincidence with the team's perspective).
And I'm not buying the fractured relationship stuff about TB and BB. Bill has been the same curmudgeon since the day he got to town. If anything, Bill has mellowed some (fewer practices, less time in pads, more days on NFL history education instead of practicing out in the heat, more days with just walk throughs, etc.).
Bill treats all his players the same. He is not going to spare anyone in a film review and he will verbally undress anyone if you screw up. Similarly, he is not going to hand out stickers or gold stars every time someone makes a good play. Not his style. Never was, never will be. Everyone else can write about how great Brady was any given week. Just don't expect it from Bill.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
He never though more than 58 attempts after 1966 (age 39). That year he through for 271 attempts.
Last edited by a moderator:
BoltNlava
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I don't disagree with most of what you said, but the rift wasn't imaginary. I believe Brady ran Garoppolo out of town and had the support of the owner and that was real and the thing with Brady's trainer was real. I don't think Brady would put up with another summer of that.
Last edited by a moderator:
Was thinking a few weeks ago what if Cousins had taken the "Bell route" with Redskins. They were not great when he was there but a QB not reporting until later in the season is a lot more difficult for teams to manage then a RB.
Instead he reported, got paid 100% for the year and then reset the QB market and hard for me to think things would have worked out so well for him had he not reported.
Instead he reported, got paid 100% for the year and then reset the QB market and hard for me to think things would have worked out so well for him had he not reported.
Last edited by a moderator:
Why don't other teams and players do this?
Are the Patriots simply that much more advanced?
Is the Steelers front office not capable of creating a similar scenario for Bell? Or Seattle for Thomas?
Last edited by a moderator:
Exactly. If Brady did pull an Earl Thomas and break his leg next week I'm sure he would be really bummed, but he would not be giving up nearly as much as Thomas did yesterday. Basically just another year or two of below-market salary, none of which would affect his (or his wife's) endorsement income or all the money he's banked over the past two decades. Whereas in Thomas' case, he just lost out on probably his last chance to get a big-money extension.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Because of the position he plays and the longevity of it. It is comparing apples and oranges.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Some do. Some players don't understand why huge cash in hand is preferable. Some teams don't want to take the chance on injury and give players that much money up front. The Saints have been doing the same thing with Brees.
Edit: and that's why Brees is the fourth highest paid NFL player of all time.
(I guess these could have changed - Brees and Brady may have overtaken Eli and Peyton by now.)
Last edited by a moderator:
BoltNlava
Footballguy
You need guys who are loyal...not to money but football. Pittsburgh for sure, Seattle ? Who knows ? But New England? Pretty sure it's a yes.
Insein
Footballguy
When has TB ever cared about where he ranked on highest paid QBs list? He cares about where he stands on the total SB rings list. Still #1 for now. I'm sure he wants to pad that lead.
Well I did not actually compare them, I simply put out if he chose to take the same route that Bell had taken. Saying that I don't think it's as apples to oranges comp and Cousins handled his business the right way and it worked out for him, it won't work out for Bell.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
You don't know that. As a matter of fact Vincent Jackson did the same thing as Bell and it worked out extremely well for him. Earl Thomas did it the way Cousins did and it is going to cost him. There is no perfect way to do it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Insein
Footballguy
We appear to have wildly different interpretations of things working out extremely well.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I guess so. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/vincent-jackson-3500/
I think Jackson did very well.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Just to illustrate how this worked with Brady, here's what he should have earned from 2010-2014 according to the extension he negotiated in 2010 (for the 2011 season and beyond: $78.5 million.
Here's what he actually earned:
2010: $16 million signing bonus, $3 million roster bonus, $7.5 million salary ($26.5 million).
2011: $4 million roster bonus, $5.75 million salary ($9.75 million).
2012: $6 million roster bonus, $4.8 million signing bonus, $950,000 salary, $250,000 workout bonus ($12 million).
2013: $30 million signing bonus, $1 million salary ($31 million).
2014: $2 million salary.
That's $81.25 million
Tom Brady made $2.75 million more than his original contract said he would, which was the highest contract in the NFL at the time and everyone thinks he renegotiated to help the team and agreed to take less money.
That's some impressive accounting and PR.
Here's what he actually earned:
2010: $16 million signing bonus, $3 million roster bonus, $7.5 million salary ($26.5 million).
2011: $4 million roster bonus, $5.75 million salary ($9.75 million).
2012: $6 million roster bonus, $4.8 million signing bonus, $950,000 salary, $250,000 workout bonus ($12 million).
2013: $30 million signing bonus, $1 million salary ($31 million).
2014: $2 million salary.
That's $81.25 million
Tom Brady made $2.75 million more than his original contract said he would, which was the highest contract in the NFL at the time and everyone thinks he renegotiated to help the team and agreed to take less money.
That's some impressive accounting and PR.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not saying Bell won't get a decent contract, thought I do not think the holdout helps. What I would tell you is he'll never make the money back up he's missing out and I don't think VJAX did either.
Counting the six games he plays and the bye week, Jackson will earn $240,058 rather than the $3,268,000 he would have made had he signed his tender as a restricted free agent before the season http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81bb66e1/article/chargers-wr-jackson-ends-holdout-signs-583000-tender
msudaisy26
Footballguy
You are assuming he made it through all those games healthy and we don't know that. If he did get hurt it could have cost him a lot of money. The same can be said with Bell. Your last few posts just assume that everything will go perfect and there is plenty of times it doesn't.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Are you talking just his earnings or his wife? Stafford would easily pass him with a 500 million contract tomorrow and not counting Brady's wife Stafford will make way more than Brady has ever made.
Were he to play out this contract, he will have earned $262.5 million in the NFL by age 35, with another potential major extension ahead. For comparison purposes, Tom Brady, at 40, has earned $196 million over 17 seasons.
Last edited by a moderator:
as an athlete sometimes you know you are the best player on the field....
at some point you know that every day when you wake up....
the size of your contract doesn’t need to give you that validation......
if you really hate to lose....there is nothing else that matters...
at some point you know that every day when you wake up....
the size of your contract doesn’t need to give you that validation......
if you really hate to lose....there is nothing else that matters...
Last edited by a moderator:
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
You successfully defeated your own premise. One could easily argue that adding Patterson, Britt, Matthews, Decker, Michel was positioning for TB to have success, up to a point where not addressing pass rush, linebacker and secondary more aggressively were "mistakes that BB made"....a much better argument could be made for BB "sabatage" if he had not taken these actions and instead focused on defense, but then these facts don't prevent the evil empire from being criticized on both fronts simultaneously.
You assume people have to remain healthy to get big paydays and while some career ending injuries could apply we just saw Allen Robinson break the bank coming off an ACL injury. There is also this thing called insurance.
Let's not clutter this thread up more on Bell talk. Feel free to get a last word or two in, but I'm moving on.
Combined. There is no QB even close to having as much $ as he (and his wife) have. Even if Stafford signed a $500 million $ deal right now, he wouldn't see the whole thing for a decade if he got paid all 500 mil. By that time Brady would be about a billionaire assuming he invests wisely which I would suspect he does.
Roger Staubach is richer. But he's not playing.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The players I cited cost peanuts. Some were not even worth going in the discount been. Not sure that really counts as making an effort to replace Cooks and Amendola. That’s like promising to take your girl to a steak house but then telling her she could only get a hot dog or a hamburger.
Best case, Michel might replace Lewis, but all the other receivers they brought in or had rostered hadn’t done much in two years.
Put another way, none of those guys cost much money and collective would not have taken up much cap room. In other words, the receiving options had such a minimal financial impact that they did not impact their ability to address any defensive needs.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Brady seems like a humble guy, which is nuts to say considering the achievements / accolades.
He’s actually from my home town San Mateo, and went to high school like 2 miles from my HS.
IMO he’s got more than enough $. Both from his supermodel wife & his NFL $ + heaps of endorsement deals.
And he’s fiercely competitive as well - so if getting paid less means getting surrounded by more talent, or protected by a better OL, or “keeping the band together”, or bringing in that special FA like a Randy Moss or Corey Dillon or Cools or whatever, then that’s what Tom Brady will do.
I am not saying this to say other players are greedy. Everyone should be compensated for what they do. And if the team agrees to that value, they should pay them. Most all those players don’t have a decade of endorsement deals, or a millionaire wife, or maybe don’t even come from an upper middle class family like Brady did.
I honestly don’t know how well off the Bradys were before Tom played in the NFL, but San Mateo is pretty affluent, and Sara High School where Brady went is a somewhat expensive private school. (Also Barry Bonds HS, btw)
for some players maybe they came from less, have less & need more - and I can’t blame them for that. If I were an NFL player, I’d be looking to make all the paper I could while healthy because of the extreme physical risk they take. And let’s not pretend NFL teams aren’t raking in the $, because they so clearly are.
so yeah - I think it’s a combination of reasons for Brady being willing to play for less & not make an issue of it. It has nothing to do with whether he’s better than the 22nd best QB. It’s what Brady feels Brady needs to be fairly compensated. And I’m guessing it’s possible that he’s comfortable enough to be able to take less for the sake of winning.
And maybe - just maybe - he feels that being a mercenary for higher pay would have resulted in his being dealt instead of Garrapolo - which, honestly, I think the Pats should have done anyway.
He’s actually from my home town San Mateo, and went to high school like 2 miles from my HS.
IMO he’s got more than enough $. Both from his supermodel wife & his NFL $ + heaps of endorsement deals.
And he’s fiercely competitive as well - so if getting paid less means getting surrounded by more talent, or protected by a better OL, or “keeping the band together”, or bringing in that special FA like a Randy Moss or Corey Dillon or Cools or whatever, then that’s what Tom Brady will do.
I am not saying this to say other players are greedy. Everyone should be compensated for what they do. And if the team agrees to that value, they should pay them. Most all those players don’t have a decade of endorsement deals, or a millionaire wife, or maybe don’t even come from an upper middle class family like Brady did.
I honestly don’t know how well off the Bradys were before Tom played in the NFL, but San Mateo is pretty affluent, and Sara High School where Brady went is a somewhat expensive private school. (Also Barry Bonds HS, btw)
for some players maybe they came from less, have less & need more - and I can’t blame them for that. If I were an NFL player, I’d be looking to make all the paper I could while healthy because of the extreme physical risk they take. And let’s not pretend NFL teams aren’t raking in the $, because they so clearly are.
so yeah - I think it’s a combination of reasons for Brady being willing to play for less & not make an issue of it. It has nothing to do with whether he’s better than the 22nd best QB. It’s what Brady feels Brady needs to be fairly compensated. And I’m guessing it’s possible that he’s comfortable enough to be able to take less for the sake of winning.
And maybe - just maybe - he feels that being a mercenary for higher pay would have resulted in his being dealt instead of Garrapolo - which, honestly, I think the Pats should have done anyway.
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
I've been watching. Gordon and Michel are going to be a lot better than you think (if both can stay on the field). Michel is an every-down back right now. White is Lewis without the flashiness, but with durability.
That's a red herring, but fun to speculate on. We've ignored Dorsett and his speed.
Hogan, Gordon, Gronk, Edelman, Dorsett.
I'll greedily take that over Enunwa, Kearse, Pryor Sr., etc.
That's a very, very talented stable of receivers. The question was hanging around the playoff hunt. They did. They just won 38-7 against a 3-0 division leading team. They're going to be fine, like you always say in other threads. Everyone predicts their demise. Their weapons and players make the Super Bowl. They're just breathtakingly good, even if the pieces move a bit.
