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Why don't coaches get in the face of units / and / or individuals more often? (1 Viewer)

JohnnyU

JohnnyU

Footballguy
It seems to me that coaches are like robots and don't show enough emotion to game flow.   I know, I know, in this day and age of the pampered / entitled athlete we don't see it, but perhaps some Lombardi wrath is needed to light a fire under some of these guys.  I would like to see one time when a coach goes over to the OL and yells at them for 4 false starts in two drives.  When I see a player commit two PI calls in one drive I see his teammates patting him on the head and saying, "that's alright".  I know these guys are professionals and feel bad when they screw up and in this day and age a lot of people feel that is good enough, but in my mind it isn't.  If the OL (like with the Falcons last night) is performing that badly, if I were coach I would be in their face when the defense is on the field, telling them that some of you are going to get cut unless you improve.

-venting over

 
I read this as all of FBG sitting on the bench as the Falcon O-Line and JohnnyU being the Lombardi-esque OC ripping us a new one.  Makes for a great read.

I agree with your overall point though.

 
Didn't Latrell Sprewell choke his coach because he yelled at him.  

You can do that stuff with kids.  Maybe you yell at them coming off the field after a bad/dumb play.  But if you want to get up in a grown man's face and yell at him--you may not like what you get back.

 
JohnnyU said:
It seems to me that coaches are like robots and don't show enough emotion to game flow.   I know, I know, in this day and age of the pampered / entitled athlete we don't see it, but perhaps some Lombardi wrath is needed to light a fire under some of these guys.  I would like to see one time when a coach goes over to the OL and yells at them for 4 false starts in two drives.  When I see a player commit two PI calls in one drive I see his teammates patting him on the head and saying, "that's alright".  I know these guys are professionals and feel bad when they screw up and in this day and age a lot of people feel that is good enough, but in my mind it isn't.  If the OL (like with the Falcons last night) is performing that badly, if I were coach I would be in their face when the defense is on the field, telling them that some of you are going to get cut unless you improve.

-venting over
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Catch more flies with honey that vinegar.

Which coach you going to listen to, the guy who comes over to curse in your face when you're already getting beaten, or the one that comes over with the play sheet and tells you to move on.

 
JohnnyU said:
It seems to me that coaches are like robots and don't show enough emotion to game flow.   I know, I know, in this day and age of the pampered / entitled athlete we don't see it, but perhaps some Lombardi wrath is needed to light a fire under some of these guys.  I would like to see one time when a coach goes over to the OL and yells at them for 4 false starts in two drives.  When I see a player commit two PI calls in one drive I see his teammates patting him on the head and saying, "that's alright".  I know these guys are professionals and feel bad when they screw up and in this day and age a lot of people feel that is good enough, but in my mind it isn't.  If the OL (like with the Falcons last night) is performing that badly, if I were coach I would be in their face when the defense is on the field, telling them that some of you are going to get cut unless you improve.

-venting over
Click to expand...


Do you think that the coach getting in their face more would improve the players' performance?

 
Leroy Hoard said:
These men are all playing to stay in the league and continue to draw very large paychecks. Pretty sure most are trying their best to continue that.
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Then the reality of their existence in the NFL is real time and subject to change.

 
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wgoldsph said:
Catch more flies with honey that vinegar.

Which coach you going to listen to, the guy who comes over to curse in your face when you're already getting beaten, or the one that comes over with the play sheet and tells you to move on.
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Perhaps too much honey leads to a losing record?

 
jm192 said:
Didn't Latrell Sprewell choke his coach because he yelled at him.  

You can do that stuff with kids.  Maybe you yell at them coming off the field after a bad/dumb play.  But if you want to get up in a grown man's face and yell at him--you may not like what you get back.
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Then get rid of bad players.  I believe coddling the modern day athlete is overblown.  There is something about being accountable and if you're not up to task, then you could be shown the door.  The threat of that shouldn't be a negative thing.

 
JohnnyU said:
Then get rid of bad players.  I believe coddling the modern day athlete is overblown.  There is something about being accountable and if you're not up to task, then you could be shown the door.  The threat of that shouldn't be a negative thing.
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Okay so who's better on that ATL roster?   Who can they pick up off the street that will be able to improve their numbers?

You've got this idea that someone else can play their job better than they can.  In a group of top athletes in the world someone's going to be the last guy able to make the squad on the worst team.   Doesn't mean the guy behind him is better.

 
Do you think most coaches have better players than the ones they are playing? They are playing the best players they have available. Cutting them would be more likely to make the problem worse than better. And there are also cap and morale considerations. 

 
wgoldsph said:
Okay so who's better on that ATL roster?   Who can they pick up off the street that will be able to improve their numbers?

You've got this idea that someone else can play their job better than they can.  In a group of top athletes in the world someone's going to be the last guy able to make the squad on the worst team.   Doesn't mean the guy behind him is better.
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Do something besides where a headset and look forward.

 
cockroach said:
Go ahead and tell at your problems in life and see how far you get. 
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Lombardi is rolling over in his grave.  The guy must have done something right since they named the championship trophy after him.

 
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JohnnyU said:
Lombardi is rolling over in his grave.  The guy must have done something right since they named the championship trophy after him.
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He coached in a time when guys had full-time jobs outside the game and largely scraped by regardless of their fame. You’re old enough to know that. Football is big business now and players are paid proportional to the rarity of their skillset. You can’t really yell a millionaire into being more motivated. That’s why the inferior Harbaugh went back to the college game (and it barely works there), it doesn’t work on adults. I’m NOT a rich athlete and I wouldn’t tolerate being yelled at over anything work-related even  a single time. It’s not my life, it’s a job.To these players the NFL is their job, even if it’s exotic and special-seeming to us. We just happen to be obsessed with their job, in this hobby. Do a few get overpaid and then coast? Sure. But the vast majority already have all the incentive they need to try as hard as they can. 
 

Look at how much guys hated Matt Patricia for his antics. When you lose control and scream like a child out of emotion as a coach you show that you are as, or more, undisciplined than the players you’re mad at, it’s not a winning proposition. And when you lose the respect or trust of 53+ grown men you are going to have a hell of a time getting it back. And as a coach, you are almost always more replaceable than they are in this league. 

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
He coached in a time when guys had full-time jobs outside the game and largely scraped by regardless of their fame. You’re old enough to know that. Football is big business now and players are paid proportional to the rarity of their skillset. You can’t really yell a millionaire into being more motivated.
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Sure you can, unless you are one of those that is touchy feely (don't get me started on politics).  Today's athletes have been told how great they are and we're so afraid of hurting their feelings, but if they truly understand that their job is on the line, then hell yes, confront them about it.  Starters becoming backups and marginal players getting cut.  See Jimmy Johnson.

 
JohnnyU said:
Sure you can, unless you are one of those that is touchy feely (don't get me started on politics).  Today's athletes have been told how great they are and we're so afraid of hurting their feelings, but if they truly understand that their job is on the line, then hell yes, confront them about it.  Starters becoming backups and marginal players getting cut.  See Jimmy Johnson.
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Again, find me a better o-line on atls roster or the street.  Find me better wrs that det has or the street. And so on.  You act like these guys need more motivation then they already get by just being in the position they're in.

Find me a team in the league that's starting a marginal player when they've got a clearly better backup.  Even if you want to "motivate" an underperforming starter with no backup and give someone else a try you tank the starter's trade value.   Even the eagles got something for the likes of Joe Flacco, how do you expect Det to eventually get out from under Goff if they bench him for a no name without him getting "injured" first.  It's still an idea based on a faulty concept.

 
JohnnyU said:
It seems to me that coaches are like robots and don't show enough emotion to game flow.   I know, I know, in this day and age of the pampered / entitled athlete we don't see it, but perhaps some Lombardi wrath is needed to light a fire under some of these guys. 
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My dad was like this when I was a kid and young adult. No matter what went wrong in a game he'd blame players, say they should be benched or fired, chewed out, etc. Not once did he ever blame a coach or coordinator or owner --- just the players. And he'd be angry when he was blaming them. It was a frustrated old-guy reaction on his part.

Now I'm older than dad was back then and guess what? It's still a frustrated old-guy reaction.

 
dont have to yell at anyone. dock them a week's pay. sit them out a game. or 3. try to trade them to purgatory, i.e., the lions, jets, eagles, houston.oh you dont want to be a part of the packers franchise?? ok here u go we traded you for a 6th round pick. there's a plane at the airport, takes you to houston.enjoy!!!

you dont have to yell at OBJ, you just send him packing..as two teams already have. soon to be 3. a flake is a flake. cast him aside like an underweight , undersized fish. can't keep it, gotta throw it back.

 
JohnnyU said:
Sure you can, unless you are one of those that is touchy feely (don't get me started on politics).  Today's athletes have been told how great they are and we're so afraid of hurting their feelings, but if they truly understand that their job is on the line, then hell yes, confront them about it.  Starters becoming backups and marginal players getting cut.  See Jimmy Johnson.
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The threat to their jobs and future paycheck if they don’t perform IS the motivation you’re looking for. If an NFL organization doesn’t have a culture of accountability for performance on the field, that has nothing to do with whether the coaching staff is yelling or not. This is really basic stuff but you’re acting like the yelling at clouds guy meme.
 

You just want to see someone on the sideline as upset as the fans are, but that’s not how it works for the guys who know what they’re doing. Has nothing to do with pampered athletes (and as much as you constantly say in your posts that you don’t want to “get into politics” even though the only thing remotely political about the topic is the fact that you even said that lol, it has nothing to do with that either). The following is not a commentary on you at all, I don’t know you—but the generation you come from has the largest percentage of poor communicators overall that I’ve encountered. Lower emotional intelligence on the whole, because less of an emphasis is placed on it. And the coaches who follow that path do not succeed in the modern day. It has nothing to do with age specifically or I admit this would be ageist—it’s a mindset that seems to sometimes follow generational lines though, and it’s a competitive advantage that smart coaches are exploiting and old school guys are whiffing on. There was a great Ringer article on it a month or two ago, actually. The emotional intelligence present in modern, successful NFL organizations and how the game is changing. 

 
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jm192 said:
Didn't Latrell Sprewell choke his coach because he yelled at him.  

You can do that stuff with kids.  Maybe you yell at them coming off the field after a bad/dumb play.  But if you want to get up in a grown man's face and yell at him--you may not like what you get back.
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Assault is actually a crime.

 
A great coach knows how to motivate each player. Each one is an actual unique human, and some are motivated very differently from others. Some definitely respond positively to being berated. Some don't. Maybe today they're all ****ies, I don't know.

 
belljr said:
And they most likely get called out during film day
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And a smart coach will ask a fellow positional teammate to identify what could have been done better.

Peers critiquing peers. They all learn (or all rebel - LOL) together.

 
Let's assume all 32 coaches yelled at all players upon any failures. Let's assume this motivated every player. Then what? The talent discrepancy that defines any sports league would still exist.

On this board, I would estimate that we as a collective believe that half to 2/3 of coaches and GMs in any given season are routinely making idiotic decisions. Does the same logic hold for coaches and GMs? Should the players yell at Matt Nagy when he calls for shotgun, five wide, empty set yet again on 4th and 1?

If a Bears player walked off the field and did that, we would be saying that player has temper/emotion issues he needs to keep in check on game day. Heck, when certain players yell at their teammates, we reach that same conclusion (some, like Brady, have that right).

When a player is uninvolved in the offensive game plan and is yelling about it on the sidelines, they are criticized. When a player gets in a fight on the field, we say they need to keep their emotions in check.

Then there are other players like Jay Cutler, whom for reasons I couldn't explain, is labeled as not having enough emotion and, we're told, didn't care about the game.

If you want my honest opinion about this, the roots underlying this all are the views our society at large has on labor and capital.

 
A good coach can and should be able to express anger and frustration with a players performance.  And it can be done without humiliating, berating, or completely losing emotional control.  It should also be balanced by effusive praise when something is done correctly.

 
FTR coaches yell at (chastise, berate etc) players all the time. Literally, not figuratively. Hell Bill Belichik yelled at Tom Brady during training camp in 2019. There are articles about that, which is why they don't do it.

They don't do it in the public view because it would become a huge unnecessary distraction created by a 24 hour news cycle that needs to capture eye and ear balls to fill the long dead spaces. The media would bring in analysts to break down the incident, they would put six faces on screen all yelling at and over each other spewing their spontaneous hot takes on the incident. They would do Zapruder style dissections of the film. TMZ would get the a quote from the wife's best friend's baby sitter.

Coaches don't want to be asked constantly about why they were yelling, they don't want the player to be asked about it constantly, they don't want teammates be asked for their reaction to the yelling constantly, they don't want the media to try and get Aaron Rodgers's hot take about the yelling that occurred on another team. They don't want to give opposing team any film that may grant even the slightest advantage in the future.

Smart coaches realize it's not for public consumption. So they contain it to the facility.

But please continue with the "Kids these days...!!!" rants. They make good entertainment.

 
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The head coach should kiss the player on the cheek, exchange a knowing glance with the position coach and walk away, like in the movies. Then the position coach throws a shovel in the trunk and takes him for a ride to see a corn field after the game.

 
eighsse said:
You use the word because, yet the clause that followed seems counter to the why-question being posed. Grown-butt men can't handle being yelled at? Will they cry and go home, or ...?
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A grown man will knock you on your ### if you do something disrespectful like that.

 
Coaching is part teaching and motivating. I've never felt screaming in someone's face did much to accomplish those things.

 
Cardiak said:
A grown man will knock you on your ### if you do something disrespectful like that.
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"Disrespectful"? The coach is your authority within the structure of the team. If he follows you home and yells at you about the way you live your personal life, then you can knock him on his ###.

 
menobrown said:
Coaching is part teaching and motivating. I've never felt screaming in someone's face did much to accomplish those things.
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How do you motivate in the moment if your OL is getting your QB killed?  Kiss all 5 of them on the cheek tell them how great they are?  I’m sure Matt Ryan would approve.

Practice is the time to teach.  The game is a time to perform.

 
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JohnnyU said:
How do you motivate in the moment if your OL is getting your QB killed?  Kiss all 5 of them on the cheek tell them how great they are?  I’m sure Matt Ryan would approve.
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No need to do a 180 exaggeration with the bolded, I never said anything of the sort.

When a team fails it's not just on the players. Its' a share responsibility that often includes coaches  not properly  teaching, strategizing or putting players in position for success. It's a lot like parenting to me. Show me the parent who screams instead of instructs and teaches their child who errs and chances are I'll show someone poor at parenting who like a person that over cusses when things go wrong they resort to yelling and screaming because frankly they got nothing else.

 
menobrown said:
No need to do a 180 exaggeration with the bolded, I never said anything of the sort.

When a team fails it's not just on the players. Its' a share responsibility that often includes coaches  not properly  teaching, strategizing or putting players in position for success. It's a lot like parenting to me. Show me the parent who screams instead of instructs and teaches their child who errs and chances are I'll show someone poor at parenting who like a person that over cusses when things go wrong they resort to yelling and screaming because frankly they got nothing else.
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The threat of being benched or cut is all the motivation they should need.

 
JohnnyU said:
The threat of being benched or cut is all the motivation they should need.
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I agree, but you don't need to get in their face to convey that.

Saying all of this your initial post seemed to focus on head coaches getting in the players faces when things go south. What I often see and hear about is the preferred method for head coaches these days is to get in the face of the assistants to turn up the pressure on them to rectify the situation.

 
menobrown said:
I agree, but you don't need to get in their face to convey that.

Saying all of this your initial post seemed to focus on head coaches getting in the players faces when things go south. What I often see and hear about is the preferred method for head coaches these days is to get in the face of the assistants to turn up the pressure on them to rectify the situation.
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A coach is a coach.

 
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