Why is it legal to require an employee to be fluent in Spanish? (1 Viewer)

[Cliff Clavin]

There are 44 million Hispanics in the US with approximately 13 percent of households who speak Spanish at home. This percent will be higher in Florida. Who considers this small?

People who couldn't pass 3rd grade math?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

There are 44 million Hispanics in the US with approximately 13 percent of households who speak Spanish at home. This percent will be higher in Florida. Who considers this small?

Yes and many of them actually do not speak Spanish or do not on any regular basis. You go into Brickell where all the young up and coming business folks(most of them Latin) frequent, hardly a one of them speaks in anything outside of English.

13% of 44= 5.6 Million? Chump change

People might utter some Spanish in their house but not that many houses where they are only speaking Spanish and you go to the neighborhoods down here with homes in excess of $250k on up and you won't find a ton of Spanish only speaking households.

 

[Hilts]

But you will find people who are more comfortable speaking Spanish even if they speak both. Wouldn't you shop somewhere you're more comfortable?

 

[Lutherman2112]

There are 44 million Hispanics in the US with approximately 13 percent of households who speak Spanish at home. This percent will be higher in Florida. Who considers this small?

Yes and many of them actually do not speak Spanish or do not on any regular basis. You go into Brickell where all the young up and coming business folks(most of them Latin) frequent, hardly a one of them speaks in anything outside of English.

13% of 44= 5.6 Million? Chump change

People might utter some Spanish in their house but not that many houses where they are only speaking Spanish and you go to the neighborhoods down here with homes in excess of $250k on up and you won't find a ton of Spanish only speaking households.

Edit to correct numbers:

According Language Use in the United States: 2011 from the US census, there were 37.6 million Spanish speakers in the US.

This now make the US as the 5th largest Spanish-speaking country, after Mexico (117 million), Spain (47.2 million), Colombia (47 million) and Argentina (41 million).

 

[CBusAlex]

So... it was MOP who came up with Dr Pepper's "It's not for women" ad campaign? Seems to be based on the same logic.

 

[jon_mx]

There are 44 million Hispanics in the US with approximately 13 percent of households who speak Spanish at home. This percent will be higher in Florida. Who considers this small?

Yes and many of them actually do not speak Spanish or do not on any regular basis. You go into Brickell where all the young up and coming business folks(most of them Latin) frequent, hardly a one of them speaks in anything outside of English.

13% of 44= 5.6 Million? Chump change

People might utter some Spanish in their house but not that many houses where they are only speaking Spanish and you go to the neighborhoods down here with homes in excess of $250k on up and you won't find a ton of Spanish only speaking households.

. It was not 13 percent of 44 million. It was 13 percent of total households speak Spanish in the home.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

So... it was MOP who came up with Dr Pepper's "It's not for women" ad campaign? Seems to be based on the same logic.

That's me in the TV spot snatching salmon out of the river with my mouth between sips.

 

[Koya]

I've actually gained a lot of perspective on this issue over the past 10 years due to my line of work (we do real estate development, a good amount in majority-minority communities with a large Latino / Hispanic population). This is my take:

The Spanish speaking wave of immigration, at its roots, is not that different than countless other waves: German, Irish, Italian, Jewish... poor, hardworking people who had the balls and gusto to find a way to the land of opportunity. However, in those earlier waves, when you had millions of the aforementioned euro's heading over, there was one huge difference among the many similarities.

Similarities first: People claimed they'd never integrate with their strange customs. (hell, Ben Franklin was allegedly concerned about the early German immigrants never learning English). That they were dumb and dirty. They were not the pure white that America really stood for (i.e. the dark dirty Italians and devil folk Jews). They'd take our jobs. They'd ruin our communities.... on and on.

However, if you were an Italian speaking family and you wanted to share in the American dream, other than your block in the bronx, you better learn english... because the next block was full of Yiddush speaking Jews and so on. So, while those various Europeans didn't speak english, they also did not have a common language to speak as a block. To speak not only with the established community in the US, but even EACH OTHER, they HAD to learn English. It accelerated the assimilation process.

That is in stark contrast to the recent wave(s) of spanish speaking immigrants with two major effects. First, because of the common language, even among divergent cultures (and often ones that hate each other... a Mexican is not a Guatemalan is not a Colombian is not an Ecuadorian), there is an ability to have larger insular cultural and economic ties. That, imo, allows for the assimilation process to be delayed a bit. In addition, instead of being angry at the Jews AND the Italians AND the Irish AND.... you can just be angry at those damn spanish people and lump it all together so it "appears" to be a bigger wave than previous immigrants.

That said, assimilation is happening. The second and third generations are american. They may speak spanish at the second generation, much like in Italian households, but by the third, its often gone. You add to that continued intermarriage and in 20 years this will all be behind us.

However, until then, because of the double issue of potential to not speak english because of the larger common language and the fact that these different communities are viewed as "the same" it seems to be a more pressing issue than it should be. And let us not forget, immigrants have hardly been loved at any point in our history. Even, apparently, by big ben himself at times.

 

[igbomb]

I've actually gained a lot of perspective on this issue over the past 10 years due to my line of work (we do real estate development, a good amount in majority-minority communities with a large Latino / Hispanic population). This is my take:

The Spanish speaking wave of immigration, at its roots, is not that different than countless other waves: German, Irish, Italian, Jewish... poor, hardworking people who had the balls and gusto to find a way to the land of opportunity. However, in those earlier waves, when you had millions of the aforementioned euro's heading over, there was one huge difference among the many similarities.

Similarities first: People claimed they'd never integrate with their strange customs. (hell, Ben Franklin was allegedly concerned about the early German immigrants never learning English). That they were dumb and dirty. They were not the pure white that America really stood for (i.e. the dark dirty Italians and devil folk Jews). They'd take our jobs. They'd ruin our communities.... on and on.

However, if you were an Italian speaking family and you wanted to share in the American dream, other than your block in the bronx, you better learn english... because the next block was full of Yiddush speaking Jews and so on. So, while those various Europeans didn't speak english, they also did not have a common language to speak as a block. To speak not only with the established community in the US, but even EACH OTHER, they HAD to learn English. It accelerated the assimilation process.

That is in stark contrast to the recent wave(s) of spanish speaking immigrants with two major effects. First, because of the common language, even among divergent cultures (and often ones that hate each other... a Mexican is not a Guatemalan is not a Colombian is not an Ecuadorian), there is an ability to have larger insular cultural and economic ties. That, imo, allows for the assimilation process to be delayed a bit. In addition, instead of being angry at the Jews AND the Italians AND the Irish AND.... you can just be angry at those damn spanish people and lump it all together so it "appears" to be a bigger wave than previous immigrants.

That said, assimilation is happening. The second and third generations are american. They may speak spanish at the second generation, much like in Italian households, but by the third, its often gone. You add to that continued intermarriage and in 20 years this will all be behind us.

However, until then, because of the double issue of potential to not speak english because of the larger common language and the fact that these different communities are viewed as "the same" it seems to be a more pressing issue than it should be. And let us not forget, immigrants have hardly been loved at any point in our history. Even, apparently, by big ben himself at times.

Do we have any evidence that the current wave of immigrants are slower to adopt English than prior waves have been?

 

[ChainsawU]

A person who speaks two languages is called bilingual. A person who speaks three languages is called trilingual. What is a person who only speaks one language called?

 

[roadkill1292]

I think Star Trek-style Universal Translators are just around the corner and I'm not letting any of you Nattering Nabobs of Negativism convince me otherwise like you almost did in the driverless car thread.

 

[roadkill1292]

A person who speaks two languages is called bilingual. A person who speaks three languages is called trilingual. What is a person who only speaks one language called?

That's easy, an American.

 

[Koya]

I've actually gained a lot of perspective on this issue over the past 10 years due to my line of work (we do real estate development, a good amount in majority-minority communities with a large Latino / Hispanic population). This is my take:

The Spanish speaking wave of immigration, at its roots, is not that different than countless other waves: German, Irish, Italian, Jewish... poor, hardworking people who had the balls and gusto to find a way to the land of opportunity. However, in those earlier waves, when you had millions of the aforementioned euro's heading over, there was one huge difference among the many similarities.

Similarities first: People claimed they'd never integrate with their strange customs. (hell, Ben Franklin was allegedly concerned about the early German immigrants never learning English). That they were dumb and dirty. They were not the pure white that America really stood for (i.e. the dark dirty Italians and devil folk Jews). They'd take our jobs. They'd ruin our communities.... on and on.

However, if you were an Italian speaking family and you wanted to share in the American dream, other than your block in the bronx, you better learn english... because the next block was full of Yiddush speaking Jews and so on. So, while those various Europeans didn't speak english, they also did not have a common language to speak as a block. To speak not only with the established community in the US, but even EACH OTHER, they HAD to learn English. It accelerated the assimilation process.

That is in stark contrast to the recent wave(s) of spanish speaking immigrants with two major effects. First, because of the common language, even among divergent cultures (and often ones that hate each other... a Mexican is not a Guatemalan is not a Colombian is not an Ecuadorian), there is an ability to have larger insular cultural and economic ties. That, imo, allows for the assimilation process to be delayed a bit. In addition, instead of being angry at the Jews AND the Italians AND the Irish AND.... you can just be angry at those damn spanish people and lump it all together so it "appears" to be a bigger wave than previous immigrants.

That said, assimilation is happening. The second and third generations are american. They may speak spanish at the second generation, much like in Italian households, but by the third, its often gone. You add to that continued intermarriage and in 20 years this will all be behind us.

However, until then, because of the double issue of potential to not speak english because of the larger common language and the fact that these different communities are viewed as "the same" it seems to be a more pressing issue than it should be. And let us not forget, immigrants have hardly been loved at any point in our history. Even, apparently, by big ben himself at times.

Do we have any evidence that the current wave of immigrants are slower to adopt English than prior waves have been?

None that I know of. It may not be occurring, but even if it does, the assimilation IS HAPPENING. The perception issue is certainly there, and that, imo, is exacerbated by the fact that you have various nationalities who have this common bond of language so they "can" converse with each other, as opposed to the Irish guy and Italian guy in the first half of the 20th century that either spoke english to each other or didnt speak at all.

 

[igbomb]

I've actually gained a lot of perspective on this issue over the past 10 years due to my line of work (we do real estate development, a good amount in majority-minority communities with a large Latino / Hispanic population). This is my take:

The Spanish speaking wave of immigration, at its roots, is not that different than countless other waves: German, Irish, Italian, Jewish... poor, hardworking people who had the balls and gusto to find a way to the land of opportunity. However, in those earlier waves, when you had millions of the aforementioned euro's heading over, there was one huge difference among the many similarities.

Similarities first: People claimed they'd never integrate with their strange customs. (hell, Ben Franklin was allegedly concerned about the early German immigrants never learning English). That they were dumb and dirty. They were not the pure white that America really stood for (i.e. the dark dirty Italians and devil folk Jews). They'd take our jobs. They'd ruin our communities.... on and on.

However, if you were an Italian speaking family and you wanted to share in the American dream, other than your block in the bronx, you better learn english... because the next block was full of Yiddush speaking Jews and so on. So, while those various Europeans didn't speak english, they also did not have a common language to speak as a block. To speak not only with the established community in the US, but even EACH OTHER, they HAD to learn English. It accelerated the assimilation process.

That is in stark contrast to the recent wave(s) of spanish speaking immigrants with two major effects. First, because of the common language, even among divergent cultures (and often ones that hate each other... a Mexican is not a Guatemalan is not a Colombian is not an Ecuadorian), there is an ability to have larger insular cultural and economic ties. That, imo, allows for the assimilation process to be delayed a bit. In addition, instead of being angry at the Jews AND the Italians AND the Irish AND.... you can just be angry at those damn spanish people and lump it all together so it "appears" to be a bigger wave than previous immigrants.

That said, assimilation is happening. The second and third generations are american. They may speak spanish at the second generation, much like in Italian households, but by the third, its often gone. You add to that continued intermarriage and in 20 years this will all be behind us.

However, until then, because of the double issue of potential to not speak english because of the larger common language and the fact that these different communities are viewed as "the same" it seems to be a more pressing issue than it should be. And let us not forget, immigrants have hardly been loved at any point in our history. Even, apparently, by big ben himself at times.

Do we have any evidence that the current wave of immigrants are slower to adopt English than prior waves have been?

None that I know of. It may not be occurring, but even if it does, the assimilation IS HAPPENING. The perception issue is certainly there, and that, imo, is exacerbated by the fact that you have various nationalities who have this common bond of language so they "can" converse with each other, as opposed to the Irish guy and Italian guy in the first half of the 20th century that either spoke english to each other or didnt speak at all.

Just found this that suggests that the language assimilation is faster now than it was 100 years ago...

Immigration study

In fact, immigrants today are learning English faster than the large waves of immigrants who came to the United States during the turn of the last century. Fewer than half of all immigrants who arrived in the United States between 1900 and 1920 spoke English within their first five years after emigrating while more than three-quarters who arrived between 1980 and 2000 spoke English within the first five years.14 During their first 20 years in the United States, the more recent arrivals, including those from Spanish-dominant countries, also learned English faster than immigrants from the first two decades of the 20th century.

And I agree with your broader point. Folks that complain about the lack of immigrants learning the language forget that in most cases their own ancestors were no better.

 

[Lutherman2112]

A person who speaks two languages is called bilingual. A person who speaks three languages is called trilingual. What is a person who only speaks one language called?

MoP

 

[Koya]

A person who speaks two languages is called bilingual. A person who speaks three languages is called trilingual. What is a person who only speaks one language called?

MoP

That may be too generous.

 

[Run It Up]

I'm more outraged this is about a language and not something actually dumb, like requiring people to be clean shaven, or to cover their tattoos, or to have 'acceptable' hair styles.

Excellent point. We have a cousin(lots of them) on my wife's side of the family, he ran out at 18/19 and got a neck tattoo. It's a piece of art no doubt about it but it is impossible for him to cover it up. Now he is 21 years old and he hates it. He doesn't like the fact people judge him before he even opens his mouth…we tried to warn him but trying to reason with a teenager is like trying to reason with a woman 2 days before her monthly event starts.

Adult men got it rough

A couple of my friends can't get jobs because of the reasons I listed, its the companies right to not hire people that don't do fall in line with the above, just as its a persons right to believe they shouldn't have to conform to 'accepted' business norms.

These guys are some of the hardest working people I've ever known, and they just can't catch a break because they don't wanna shave their beard/have a tattoo/have a dumb hairstyle.

Its a cultural problem, 'business image' is a thing because we made it a thing. What you look like has absolutely nothing to do with your level of professionalism.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I've actually gained a lot of perspective on this issue over the past 10 years due to my line of work (we do real estate development, a good amount in majority-minority communities with a large Latino / Hispanic population). This is my take:

10 Years? My gawd I bet you have seen it all Koya.

The Spanish speaking wave of immigration, at its roots, is not that different than countless other waves: German, Irish, Italian, Jewish... poor, hardworking people(cough cough, spit spit, cough cough) who had the balls and gusto to find illegally smuggle themselves to the land of opportunity. However, in those earlier waves, when you had millions of the aforementioned euro's heading over, there was one huge difference among the many similarities.

Similarities first: People claimed they'd never integrate with their strange customs. (hell, Ben Franklin was allegedly concerned about the early German immigrants never learning English). That they were dumb and dirty. They were not the pure white that America really stood for (i.e. the dark dirty Italians and devil folk Jews). They'd take our jobs. They'd ruin our communities.... on and on. Ben Franklin said all of this?

However, if you were an Italian speaking family and you wanted to share in the American dream, other than your block in the bronx, you better learn english... because the next block was full of Yiddush speaking Jews and so on. So, while those various Europeans didn't speak english, they also did not have a common language to speak as a block. To speak not only with the established community in the US, but even EACH OTHER, they HAD to learn English. It accelerated the assimilation process. So learning English accelerated their advancement? rhetorical, no need to respond.

That is in stark contrast to the recent wave(s) of spanish speaking immigrants with two major effects. First, because of the common language, even among divergent cultures (and often ones that hate each other... a Mexican is not a Guatemalan is not a Colombian is not an Ecuadorian), there is an ability to have larger insular cultural and economic ties. That, imo, allows for the assimilation process to be delayed a bit. In addition, instead of being angry at the Jews AND the Italians AND the Irish AND.... you can just be angry at those damn spanish people and lump it all together so it "appears" to be a bigger wave than previous immigrants.

That said, assimilation is happening. The second and third generations are american. They may speak spanish at the second generation, much like in Italian households, but by the third, its often gone. You add to that continued intermarriage and in 20 years this will all be behind us.

However, until then, because of the double issue of potential to not speak english because of the larger common language and the fact that these different communities are viewed as "the same" it seems to be a more pressing issue than it should be. And let us not forget, immigrants have hardly been loved at any point in our history. Even, apparently, by big ben himself at times.

Thanks, that was a lot to digest.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm more outraged this is about a language and not something actually dumb, like requiring people to be clean shaven, or to cover their tattoos, or to have 'acceptable' hair styles.

Excellent point. We have a cousin(lots of them) on my wife's side of the family, he ran out at 18/19 and got a neck tattoo. It's a piece of art no doubt about it but it is impossible for him to cover it up. Now he is 21 years old and he hates it. He doesn't like the fact people judge him before he even opens his mouth…we tried to warn him but trying to reason with a teenager is like trying to reason with a woman 2 days before her monthly event starts.

Adult men got it rough

A couple of my friends can't get jobs because of the reasons I listed, its the companies right to not hire people that don't do fall in line with the above, just as its a persons right to believe they shouldn't have to conform to 'accepted' business norms.

These guys are some of the hardest working people I've ever known, and they just can't catch a break because they don't wanna shave their beard/have a tattoo/have a dumb hairstyle.

Its a cultural problem, 'business image' is a thing because we made it a thing. What you look like has absolutely nothing to do with your level of professionalism.

 

[Koya]

I've actually gained a lot of perspective on this issue over the past 10 years due to my line of work (we do real estate development, a good amount in majority-minority communities with a large Latino / Hispanic population). This is my take:

10 Years? My gawd I bet you have seen it all Koya.

The Spanish speaking wave of immigration, at its roots, is not that different than countless other waves: German, Irish, Italian, Jewish... poor, hardworking people(cough cough, spit spit, cough cough) who had the balls and gusto to find illegally smuggle themselves to the land of opportunity. However, in those earlier waves, when you had millions of the aforementioned euro's heading over, there was one huge difference among the many similarities.

Similarities first: People claimed they'd never integrate with their strange customs. (hell, Ben Franklin was allegedly concerned about the early German immigrants never learning English). That they were dumb and dirty. They were not the pure white that America really stood for (i.e. the dark dirty Italians and devil folk Jews). They'd take our jobs. They'd ruin our communities.... on and on. Ben Franklin said all of this?

However, if you were an Italian speaking family and you wanted to share in the American dream, other than your block in the bronx, you better learn english... because the next block was full of Yiddush speaking Jews and so on. So, while those various Europeans didn't speak english, they also did not have a common language to speak as a block. To speak not only with the established community in the US, but even EACH OTHER, they HAD to learn English. It accelerated the assimilation process. So learning English accelerated their advancement? rhetorical, no need to respond.

That is in stark contrast to the recent wave(s) of spanish speaking immigrants with two major effects. First, because of the common language, even among divergent cultures (and often ones that hate each other... a Mexican is not a Guatemalan is not a Colombian is not an Ecuadorian), there is an ability to have larger insular cultural and economic ties. That, imo, allows for the assimilation process to be delayed a bit. In addition, instead of being angry at the Jews AND the Italians AND the Irish AND.... you can just be angry at those damn spanish people and lump it all together so it "appears" to be a bigger wave than previous immigrants.

That said, assimilation is happening. The second and third generations are american. They may speak spanish at the second generation, much like in Italian households, but by the third, its often gone. You add to that continued intermarriage and in 20 years this will all be behind us.

However, until then, because of the double issue of potential to not speak english because of the larger common language and the fact that these different communities are viewed as "the same" it seems to be a more pressing issue than it should be. And let us not forget, immigrants have hardly been loved at any point in our history. Even, apparently, by big ben himself at times.

Thanks, that was a lot to digest.

1. 10 years is a lot more experience dealing with these communities than I had prior. It's been a learning curve.

2. Not sure what you mean by cough cough spit spit... my point is the current immigrants are FAR MORE ALIKE those that came here prior than they are different. Those include my grand and great grandparents.

3. First, many immigrants are legal and get swept into the overgeneralization that anyone who is spanish speaking, looking, sounding, is illegal. Second, we don't have to go into the fact that (1) it's far more difficult to get legal citizenship now than during many times during the past (2) that many in the past were not here legally either and (3) without "illegal immigrants" our economy would take a huge hit. But that's another issue. This is about language.

4. From what I know, Ben was merely complaining about Germans speaking German and the fear that they'd never want to learn English. Even the best of us have our faults.

5. Rhetorical or not, they are here. They generally work harder than 90% of those of us on these message boards, are, as noted above, essential to our economy, and aren't going anywhere. Plus, they will assimilate and in 20 years this won't be an issue.

Mostly because you will have to have learned Spanish by then since the Mexican North revolution would have already unfolded.

 

[Politician Spock]

A person who speaks two languages is called bilingual. A person who speaks three languages is called trilingual. What is a person who only speaks one language called?

Intelligible.

 

[Chaka]

America doesn't have an official language. Accept it and move on.

How many Americans with a net worth of over $1M, how many of those folks are fluent only in Spanish?

How many transactions on Wall Street each day happen in anything other than English?

Are they speaking English in the House and Senate? Not sure about the White House.

America doesn't have an official language. Accept it and move on.

And nice qualifier.

 

[Dr Oadi]

Voy a pasar a rusia sin documentación. Voy a tener un montón de hijos y exigir que se imparten en Inglés!

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Arrogance and ignorance, with some run of the mill stupidity sprinkled in is dangerous, albeit entertaining.

 

[Ignoramus]

I'm more outraged this is about a language and not something actually dumb, like requiring people to be clean shaven, or to cover their tattoos, or to have 'acceptable' hair styles.

Excellent point. We have a cousin(lots of them) on my wife's side of the family, he ran out at 18/19 and got a neck tattoo. It's a piece of art no doubt about it but it is impossible for him to cover it up. Now he is 21 years old and he hates it. He doesn't like the fact people judge him before he even opens his mouthwe tried to warn him but trying to reason with a teenager is like trying to reason with a woman 2 days before her monthly event starts.Adult men got it rough

A couple of my friends can't get jobs because of the reasons I listed, its the companies right to not hire people that don't do fall in line with the above, just as its a persons right to believe they shouldn't have to conform to 'accepted' business norms.These guys are some of the hardest working people I've ever known, and they just can't catch a break because they don't wanna shave their beard/have a tattoo/have a dumb hairstyle.

Its a cultural problem, 'business image' is a thing because we made it a thing. What you look like has absolutely nothing to do with your level of professionalism.

What would you think if you went to your surgeon and he had a neck tattoo, gauged ears, a couple of lip piercings and a mohawk? Would you be all warm and fuzzy about going under the knife, or does how you look say a little something about your professionalism?

 

[DiStefano]

I'm more outraged this is about a language and not something actually dumb, like requiring people to be clean shaven, or to cover their tattoos, or to have 'acceptable' hair styles.

Excellent point. We have a cousin(lots of them) on my wife's side of the family, he ran out at 18/19 and got a neck tattoo. It's a piece of art no doubt about it but it is impossible for him to cover it up. Now he is 21 years old and he hates it. He doesn't like the fact people judge him before he even opens his mouthwe tried to warn him but trying to reason with a teenager is like trying to reason with a woman 2 days before her monthly event starts.Adult men got it rough

A couple of my friends can't get jobs because of the reasons I listed, its the companies right to not hire people that don't do fall in line with the above, just as its a persons right to believe they shouldn't have to conform to 'accepted' business norms.These guys are some of the hardest working people I've ever known, and they just can't catch a break because they don't wanna shave their beard/have a tattoo/have a dumb hairstyle.

Its a cultural problem, 'business image' is a thing because we made it a thing. What you look like has absolutely nothing to do with your level of professionalism.

What would you think if you went to your surgeon and he had a neck tattoo, gauged ears, a couple of lip piercings and a mohawk? Would you be all warm and fuzzy about going under the knife, or does how you look say a little something about your professionalism?

I think it would tell me he wasn't going to fall in line with all the conformity he saw in med school. He was going to do this tonsillectomy through the rectum.