Why isn't Trent Diler a better NFL QB? (1 Viewer)

[Capella]

Exactly!  Dilfer wasn't a "young QB with bad WRs" the year before in 1997 when the Bucs started 5-0 and almost beat Green Bay in Green Bay in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Again, as the team began to gel, the experienced Dilfer fell apart.

Wow. Dilfer doesn't play with a single WR who would have been a #4 WR on most NFL teams until he gets to SEA - unless you count Harper, who was a turd that played on great DAL teams, and Stokley, who was raw as a piece of hamburger when he played with BAL. Then with SEA he has to fight Holmgren's golden boy.A QB needs a least a modicum of WRs who can be at least moderately effective to put up good numbers, unless the guy is named something like Elway (made decent players out of the 3 amigos - that's worthy of the HoF all by itself) or Favre (made Schroeder & FBoC Freeman into studs before they went elsewhere & showed how truly talentless they are).

Plain & simple, Dilfer has been saddled with crap at WR. Yet the guy earns the respect of his teammates everywhere he goes, wins a SB when his HC thought Tony Banks was a better QB (that a whole 'nother bag of outright laughs), and turned the outright garbage at TB into a pro-Bowl apperance.

hilarious.so instead of "the bad quarterback made those guys into bad receivers" argument, you're settled into the "bad receivers made that guy a bad quarterback" stance.

Emanual and Harper were good enough to play other places and contribute. J Green was plenty good enough his first few years to be a decent player. Dilfer was never good enough to make them better. He also had two very good pass-catching backs in Dunn and Alstott. Absolutely no excuses.

He was horrible. Period. He overthrew guys, then underthrew guys, then misread routes all. the. time. Go back and watch the games, God knows I've seen them enough times already.

Thanks for th alaughes.Surprised your a Buc fan, figured you watched a game or two with them... I have watched alot of dilfer in a BUC uni, Raven Uni and Seattle uniform.

No offense, but your lost in this. I am sure you will retaliate with some witty line, but save it. When your wrong you are wrong, period.

Dilfer is no awesome QB but he is very serviceable. Maybe retain a few things you have seen over the past few years will ya?

Sorry, Dilfer was absolutely horrible in Tampa. You are absolutely out of your mind if you think otherwise. There's a reason the team let him walk so they could let a second-year, second-round QB take over on a team with a championship defense.He seemed to be ok the one year he was in Baltimore and I haven't seen enough of him in Seattle to have an opinion (or care).

 

[Chaka]

While this debate is fascinating and all the fact is that this guy is a starting QB in the NFL and I must *grudginly* give jw...credit for bringing up the topic. So let's forget about how awesome/horrible Dilfer has been in his career and speculate on dude's prospects in the Cleveland offense.Cleveland has Antonio Bryant, Dennis Northcut and Braylon Edwards on the outside, no tight end to speak of, a middling offensive line (with the addition of Shelton IF they can get Verba in tow they might be better than expected) and an undefined running back situation. And to top it off everyone is learning a new offensive system.This does not seem like a good mix for any type of consistent fantasy production coming out of Cleveland this season.I am thinking maybe 3,200 yards and 17 TDs with 15 INTs.Anyone else have a thought on this?

 

[Gargoylez]

Sorry, Dilfer was absolutely horrible in Tampa. You are absolutely out of your mind if you think otherwise. There's a reason the team let him walk so they could let a second-year, second-round QB take over on a team with a championship defense.

He seemed to be ok the one year he was in Baltimore and I haven't seen enough of him in Seattle to have an opinion (or care).

I know Dilfer failed with the soon to be Hall of Fame offensive coordinator.... who? Shula? Im sorry... who? I mean Dungy was a big Offensive guru right...? Oh.... wait.I am not saying he was great in Tampa. But he did pretty good considering the group of players and personell he was surrounded with, which was the leagues worst for 3 years at LEAST.

No Offense, but your not seeing the whole picture.

 

[jwvdcw]

Emanual and Harper were good enough to play other places and contribute. J Green was plenty good enough his first few years to be a decent player.

That you are actually defending these guys as NFL quality WRs tells me everything I need to know.Did Dilfer steal a girlfriend from you in the past or something? Have relationships with your Mom, maybe?

Seriously.

Those guys were terrible and all but 5 QBs in the league would've sucked with them.

I'll second the comparison of Dilfer to McNabb minus the rushing ability.

ok.

You comparing Dilfer to McNabb despite the fact that he's never even shown 1/8th the ability of Donovan is maybe the funniest thing I've read today.

Chicken or the egg? Did the QB make the WRs bad or did the WRs make the QB bad?

Considering the mutiny the defense had towards Dilfer in '99, which lead to the coaching staff benching him for a game on the road at Detroit in favor of the legendary Eric Zeier, I'd tend to believe it was the horrible QB play that made the offense sputter. But whaddya I know, I'm sure jwdwslkdfkl;'akl;'dfl knows much more about the QB play of the Tampa Bay Bucs than I ever will.

Ok, for the last time: I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU....Dilfer was terrible in TB. But, I think its unfair to expect any young QB to develop when immediately cast in this situation:1. Poor WRs

2. Rookie or young QB

3. Expectations to win

If a QB has only 2 of these, then I still think he can develop. For example, Eli Manning has 1 and 2, but not 3...he is allowed to lose for a few years and be fine because nobody expects much from that team. But Dilfer had huge expectations because their defense was so good that it made them SB contenders.

So yes, just to repeat...I agree with you that Dilfer was absolutely terrible during his entire stint in TB.

But now as I look at him, I see a QB that has developed somewhat. I see a much better QB. Look, I can admit that you know a lot more about TB than me. But can you at least concede that I know a ton more than you about the Ravens than you? And that I probably saw him play a lot more there than you? And can you also concede that since I liked him a lot and followed his career since he left that I probably know more about his games in Seattle than you? Ok then....well all jokes aside I'm not an idiot when it comes to football(insert joke here)....And I saw a decent NFL QB when I watched him play in those situations despite never having great WR talent. I saw a QB that can manage a game, a QB that is a good leader, a QB that throws a nice deep ball, a QB that can hurt you when he has good WRs. I saw a QB that had some talent and had his head on straight. I saw a QB that was totally relieved to finally be out of that terrible QB situation in TB.

Capella, I've tried to be very objective and fair in this post here, which I'll admit that I'm always not. Now I realize that you hate Dilfer because his slow development probably cost your team some key wins. But can you at least try to see what I'm saying here?

Capella, care to reply here?

 

[Capella]

Emanual and Harper were good enough to play other places and contribute. J Green was plenty good enough his first few years to be a decent player.

That you are actually defending these guys as NFL quality WRs tells me everything I need to know.Did Dilfer steal a girlfriend from you in the past or something? Have relationships with your Mom, maybe?

Seriously.

Those guys were terrible and all but 5 QBs in the league would've sucked with them.

I'll second the comparison of Dilfer to McNabb minus the rushing ability.

ok.

You comparing Dilfer to McNabb despite the fact that he's never even shown 1/8th the ability of Donovan is maybe the funniest thing I've read today.

Chicken or the egg? Did the QB make the WRs bad or did the WRs make the QB bad?

Considering the mutiny the defense had towards Dilfer in '99, which lead to the coaching staff benching him for a game on the road at Detroit in favor of the legendary Eric Zeier, I'd tend to believe it was the horrible QB play that made the offense sputter. But whaddya I know, I'm sure jwdwslkdfkl;'akl;'dfl knows much more about the QB play of the Tampa Bay Bucs than I ever will.

Ok, for the last time: I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU....Dilfer was terrible in TB. But, I think its unfair to expect any young QB to develop when immediately cast in this situation:1. Poor WRs

2. Rookie or young QB

3. Expectations to win

If a QB has only 2 of these, then I still think he can develop. For example, Eli Manning has 1 and 2, but not 3...he is allowed to lose for a few years and be fine because nobody expects much from that team. But Dilfer had huge expectations because their defense was so good that it made them SB contenders.

So yes, just to repeat...I agree with you that Dilfer was absolutely terrible during his entire stint in TB.

But now as I look at him, I see a QB that has developed somewhat. I see a much better QB. Look, I can admit that you know a lot more about TB than me. But can you at least concede that I know a ton more than you about the Ravens than you? And that I probably saw him play a lot more there than you? And can you also concede that since I liked him a lot and followed his career since he left that I probably know more about his games in Seattle than you? Ok then....well all jokes aside I'm not an idiot when it comes to football(insert joke here)....And I saw a decent NFL QB when I watched him play in those situations despite never having great WR talent. I saw a QB that can manage a game, a QB that is a good leader, a QB that throws a nice deep ball, a QB that can hurt you when he has good WRs. I saw a QB that had some talent and had his head on straight. I saw a QB that was totally relieved to finally be out of that terrible QB situation in TB.

Capella, I've tried to be very objective and fair in this post here, which I'll admit that I'm always not. Now I realize that you hate Dilfer because his slow development probably cost your team some key wins. But can you at least try to see what I'm saying here?

Capella, care to reply here?

I mentioned earlier I haven't seen a ton of him since he left Tampa. Saw him in 2000 when he was with the Ravens, and looked pretty much the same, except he now had a security blanket at TE and a dominant RB and defense. Only seen snippets of him while in Seattle. I really doubt he's a lot different now than he was in '99.

One other thing...I used to be a huuuuuuge Dilfer fan, because I always thought he'd turn things around. Still have the jersey and everything. Just so people don't think I used to have this underlying hatred for him.

 

[Capella]

Sorry, Dilfer was absolutely horrible in Tampa. You are absolutely out of your mind if you think otherwise. There's a reason the team let him walk so they could let a second-year, second-round QB take over on a team with a championship defense.

He seemed to be ok the one year he was in Baltimore and I haven't seen enough of him in Seattle to have an opinion (or care).

I know Dilfer failed with the soon to be Hall of Fame offensive coordinator.... who? Shula? Im sorry... who? I mean Dungy was a big Offensive guru right...? Oh.... wait.I am not saying he was great in Tampa. But he did pretty good considering the group of players and personell he was surrounded with, which was the leagues worst for 3 years at LEAST.

No Offense, but your not seeing the whole picture.

We'll just have to disagree then. The offense was scaled back for one reason and one reason only....because of the QB running things.Yes, Shula was an idiot. Dungy was just as dumb for keeping him. But their hands were tied at QB.

And no, the offensive talent was not the worst in the league. The two running backs they had then were enough to dispute that statement.