Why not allow Presidents to run for a third term? (or more) (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Suppose Barack Obama was your idea of an excellent President. He's a young guy. Why shouldn't he be able to run again, as many times as he likes?

I don't like this lame duck stuff. I think it makes us weaker as a nation. Less stuff gets done. In domestic affairs, the Congress pays less attention to the President, knowing he's going to be gone in a couple of years. In foreign policy, guys like Putin can thumb their nose at Obama because they know he's not going to be around much longer. It seems to me that every time we go through this (the last few years of an 8 year Presidency), we hamstring ourselves for no reason.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJXYMDu6dpY

 

[Parrothead]

no.. how about one 6 year term..

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

 

[LinusMarr]

Suppose Barack Obama was your idea of an excellent President. He's a young guy. Why shouldn't he be able to run again, as many times as he likes?

I don't like this lame duck stuff. I think it makes us weaker as a nation. Less stuff gets done. In domestic affairs, the Congress pays less attention to the President, knowing he's going to be gone in a couple of years. In foreign policy, guys like Putin can thumb their nose at Obama because they know he's not going to be around much longer. It seems to me that every time we go through this (the last few years of an 8 year Presidency), we hamstring ourselves for no reason.

I am suprised he hasnt done himself up a executive order to change that. He tends to do what he wants as it is....

 

[timschochet]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

 

[BassNBrew]

Suppose Barack Obama was your idea of an excellent President. He's a young guy. Why shouldn't he be able to run again, as many times as he likes?

I don't like this lame duck stuff. I think it makes us weaker as a nation. Less stuff gets done. In domestic affairs, the Congress pays less attention to the President, knowing he's going to be gone in a couple of years. In foreign policy, guys like Putin can thumb their nose at Obama because they know he's not going to be around much longer. It seems to me that every time we go through this (the last few years of an 8 year Presidency), we hamstring ourselves for no reason.

I wonder how many times Hitler would have been elected given the chance?

 

[jon_mx]

If Barrack Obama was at the gym riding the bicycle, Tim would be the guy sniffing his seat after he finished.

 

[snitwitch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus

 

[CBusAlex]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

This is circular reasoning. It's like answering "why don't we legalize prostitution?" with "because prostitution is illegal".

 

[igbomb]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

And 100 years ago there weren't term limits. Was it less democratic then? I don't think how 'democratic' either concept is has any bearing.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

This is circular reasoning. It's like answering "why don't we legalize prostitution?" with "because prostitution is illegal".

No, the people can make laws; if we decide that persons who have served two terms are no longer appropriate to serve, then that's fine.

 

[JohnnyU]

Suppose Barack Obama was your idea of an excellent President. He's a young guy. Why shouldn't he be able to run again, as many times as he likes?

I don't like this lame duck stuff. I think it makes us weaker as a nation. Less stuff gets done. In domestic affairs, the Congress pays less attention to the President, knowing he's going to be gone in a couple of years. In foreign policy, guys like Putin can thumb their nose at Obama because they know he's not going to be around much longer. It seems to me that every time we go through this (the last few years of an 8 year Presidency), we hamstring ourselves for no reason.

I wonder how many times Hitler would have been elected given the chance?

Probably until everyone is dead?

 

[Rayderr]

Suppose Barack Obama was your idea of an excellent President. He's a young guy. Why shouldn't he be able to run again, as many times as he likes?

Because many years ago, we voted for a bunch of people who voted for term limits on the presidency.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

And 100 years ago there weren't term limits. Was it less democratic then? I don't think how 'democratic' either concept is has any bearing.

No, I'm saying it's not any less democratic now.

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

 

[LinusMarr]

If Barrack Obama was at the gym riding the bicycle, Tim would be the guy sniffing his seat after he finished.

LOL

 

[timschochet]

If Barrack Obama was at the gym riding the bicycle, Tim would be the guy sniffing this seat after he finished.

Forget Obama! I didn't vote for him either time. If he were running again I wouldn't vote for him. I use him as an example because he is the current President and because he's a young guy, and probably would run again if it were legal to do so. But for the sake of argument, substitute him for anyone that you like better. in your case, a young Ronald Reagan.

 

[CBusAlex]

No, the people can make laws; if we decide that persons who have served two terms are no longer appropriate to serve, then that's fine.

Is it fine? Or is it anti-democratic? Because you've made both claims in the span of about 30 seconds.

 

[JohnnyU]

OMG, could you imagine Obama for another term? Just take me out to the back yard and shoot me now. I was dumb enough to vote for him the first term, but don't blame me for the debacle the 2nd term.

 

[igbomb]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

And 100 years ago there weren't term limits. Was it less democratic then? I don't think how 'democratic' either concept is has any bearing.

No, I'm saying it's not any less democratic now.

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

That's great. And I'm sure it would only be changed by a democratic process. Yet you're the one who called Tim un-democratic earlier in the thread.

 

[Parrothead]

OMG, could you imagine Obama for another term? Just take me out to the back yard and shoot me now.

at least the Obamacare mandates would be delayed another 4 years

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

No, the people can make laws; if we decide that persons who have served two terms are no longer appropriate to serve, then that's fine.

Is it fine? Or is it anti-democratic? Because you've made both claims in the span of about 30 seconds.

I haven't said a legislature or Congress limiting terms is anti-democratic.

I've said limiting people from election or voting on the basis of belief, ideology or something like race/gender is undemocratic.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

Like many aspects of the Constitution, such as the entire Bill of Rights, the imposition of a presidential term limit is undemocratic. It takes the choice away from the voters.

That's the "limited" part in our limited democracy.

 

[jon_mx]

If Barrack Obama was at the gym riding the bicycle, Tim would be the guy sniffing this seat after he finished.

Forget Obama! I didn't vote for him either time. If he were running again I wouldn't vote for him. I use him as an example because he is the current President and because he's a young guy, and probably would run again if it were legal to do so. But for the sake of argument, substitute him for anyone that you like better. in your case, a young Ronald Reagan.

Love the I did not vote for Obama Shtick. It is probably your best!

 

[timschochet]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

This is circular reasoning. It's like answering "why don't we legalize prostitution?" with "because prostitution is illegal".

No, the people can make laws; if we decide that persons who have served two terms are no longer appropriate to serve, then that's fine.

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

This is circular reasoning. It's like answering "why don't we legalize prostitution?" with "because prostitution is illegal".

No, the people can make laws; if we decide that persons who have served two terms are no longer appropriate to serve, then that's fine.

Placing term limits by law is not an undemocratic act. I just think it's inaccurate of you to tell me to turn in my democracy card simply because I propose changing the law back to what it was prior to 1948, as if my idea is less democratic than yours.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

And 100 years ago there weren't term limits. Was it less democratic then? I don't think how 'democratic' either concept is has any bearing.

No, I'm saying it's not any less democratic now.

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

That's great. And I'm sure it would only be changed by a democratic process. Yet you're the one who called Tim un-democratic earlier in the thread.

Oh ok, if I need to say it was wrong of me to accuse Tim of that then I'm truly sorry. He's a good guy and I mean that. But basically this convo's been going on for a bit and in my view saying that Constitutional Amendment limiting qualifications is undemocratic is ridiculous, how's that?

Extreme example: you have to 35 to be president. We're good with that right?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

Like many aspects of the Constitution, such as the entire Bill of Rights, the imposition of a presidential term limit is undemocratic. It takes the choice away from the voters.

That's the "limited" part in out limited democracy.

Frankly I disagree whole heartedly, as stated above we put qualifications for election to office - that is inherently democratic (as long as not based on something arbitrary like race or beliefs).

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Extreme example: you have to 35 to be president. We're good with that right?

No.

 

[timschochet]

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

Like many aspects of the Constitution, such as the entire Bill of Rights, the imposition of a presidential term limit is undemocratic. It takes the choice away from the voters.

That's the "limited" part in out limited democracy.

And in most cases, I am in favor of limited democracy. I am not a fan in general of "the more democracy the better." I only raised the issue because I thought it was amusing that SaintsInDome thinks I should give up my democracy card.

But in the case of Presidential elections, it's one example where I do believe it might make sense to have more democracy.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Extreme example: you have to 35 to be president. We're good with that right?

No.

Ha, ok.

Does this fall under the unpopular opinions thread?

Or does everyone want babies elected?

 

[jon_mx]

Going back to my fetus years, the guys in my lifetime.....Reagan, Kennedy, and maybe even Clinton could get three terms. All the others, I was happy they did not.

 

[timschochet]

The 35 year age limit and having to be born in this country also seem like bad restrictions. Why not get rid of them?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

Like many aspects of the Constitution, such as the entire Bill of Rights, the imposition of a presidential term limit is undemocratic. It takes the choice away from the voters.

That's the "limited" part in out limited democracy.

And in most cases, I am in favor of limited democracy. I am not a fan in general of "the more democracy the better." I only raised the issue because I thought it was amusing that SaintsInDome thinks I should give up my democracy card.

But in the case of Presidential elections, it's one example where I do believe it might make sense to have more democracy.

It was amusing, and stupid on my part. I owe you a beer and an apology.

But the idea that a Congress can't put qualifications on holding office is absurd. "Democracy" doesn't mean a 52-card pickup free-for-all. It also doesn't mean any old election is automatically "democracy."

 

[CBusAlex]

I suppose there are a couple ways one could interpret the OP. There's "why do we have this term limit rule in the Constitution?", which is how a same person would read it. Then there's "why not just ignore the term limit rule in the Constitution?", which is apparently how Saints has chosen to read it.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

Like many aspects of the Constitution, such as the entire Bill of Rights, the imposition of a presidential term limit is undemocratic. It takes the choice away from the voters.

That's the "limited" part in out limited democracy.

Frankly I disagree whole heartedly, as stated above we put qualifications for election to office - that is inherently democratic (as long as not based on something arbitrary like race or beliefs).

It's inherently undemocratic.

You seem to think that undemocratic things are bad, so anything that's good must be democratic. But that's not the case. Lots of undemocratic things are good -- the First Amendment, for example. It limits what voters (and their representatives) can do, but that's a perfectly wise and appropriate limitation on democracy.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The 35 year age limit and having to be born in this country also seem like bad restrictions. Why not get rid of them?

Hm, because we think people should be 1. mature and 2. not installed by a foreign power?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

You know, friday threads are not this. This is a Monday thread. A friday thread has boobs. Or a poll about a nice middled aged guy picking you up in his limo for a day. Not this.

So, with that, my answer if I add anything to this thread, is going to be unbelievably sarcastic. Or is it?

 

[jon_mx]

The 35 year age limit and having to be born in this country also seem like bad restrictions. Why not get rid of them?

I think it should be tighten to the contiguous 48 states.

 

[timschochet]

Going back to my fetus years, the guys in my lifetime.....Reagan, Kennedy, and maybe even Clinton could get three terms. All the others, I was happy they did not.

To be clear- were you happy that they didn't, or were you happy that there was a law restricting them from doing so?

Again, please answer my hypothesis: if Ronald Reagan had been elected for the first time at age 42 or so, wouldn't you have wanted him to run for a 3rd term? Or a 4th term? Or as long as he wanted?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

Like many aspects of the Constitution, such as the entire Bill of Rights, the imposition of a presidential term limit is undemocratic. It takes the choice away from the voters.

That's the "limited" part in out limited democracy.

Frankly I disagree whole heartedly, as stated above we put qualifications for election to office - that is inherently democratic (as long as not based on something arbitrary like race or beliefs).

It's inherently undemocratic.

You seem to think that undemocratic things are bad, so anything that's good must be democratic. But that's not the case. Lots of undemocratic things are good -- the First Amendment, for example. It limits what voters (and their representatives) can do, but that's a perfectly wise appropriate limitation on democracy.

You guys are failing to distinguish freedoms of the People and freedoms of the Government.

Big error.

The President has become a government official.

> The Power belongs to the People to restrict what the government - and government officials - can do.

 

[timschochet]

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

Like many aspects of the Constitution, such as the entire Bill of Rights, the imposition of a presidential term limit is undemocratic. It takes the choice away from the voters.

That's the "limited" part in out limited democracy.

And in most cases, I am in favor of limited democracy. I am not a fan in general of "the more democracy the better." I only raised the issue because I thought it was amusing that SaintsInDome thinks I should give up my democracy card.

But in the case of Presidential elections, it's one example where I do believe it might make sense to have more democracy.

It was amusing, and stupid on my part. I owe you a beer and an apology.

But the idea that a Congress can't put qualifications on holding office is absurd. "Democracy" doesn't mean a 52-card pickup free-for-all. It also doesn't mean any old election is automatically "democracy."

I'm not saying they can't. I'm just suggesting that perhaps they shouldn't.

 

[sporthenry]

Yeah, interesting idea but it wouldn't get rid of the lame duck, at least domestically. Republicans saw and treated Obama as a lame duck 2-3 years into his first term. Even with term limits, opposing party just looks at the next election as their next time to shine.

Internationally, it might hurt us a bit, but I'd argue our FP hasn't changed a ton from the end of Bush to start of Obama. And if the person is doing such a good job, presumably the next person elected will mimic his/her position on the issues. If Obama should get elected to maintain his foreign policy, then I imagine the next Democratic nominee will run on that issue.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ok guys, I do not capitulate, I just have to get back to life - I wish I could buy you all beers to keep this going.

Viva El Tim y La Revolucion!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm just saying that the decision by Constitutional Amendment to limit terms is in and of itself democratic.

Like many aspects of the Constitution, such as the entire Bill of Rights, the imposition of a presidential term limit is undemocratic. It takes the choice away from the voters.

That's the "limited" part in out limited democracy.

And in most cases, I am in favor of limited democracy. I am not a fan in general of "the more democracy the better." I only raised the issue because I thought it was amusing that SaintsInDome thinks I should give up my democracy card.

But in the case of Presidential elections, it's one example where I do believe it might make sense to have more democracy.

It was amusing, and stupid on my part. I owe you a beer and an apology.

But the idea that a Congress can't put qualifications on holding office is absurd. "Democracy" doesn't mean a 52-card pickup free-for-all. It also doesn't mean any old election is automatically "democracy."

I'm not saying they can't. I'm just suggesting that perhaps they shouldn't.

Ok, questions of should and shouldn't are left to... our Congress and Legislatures.

 

[Rayderr]

Going back to my fetus years, the guys in my lifetime.....Reagan, Kennedy, and maybe even Clinton could get three terms. All the others, I was happy they did not.

I don't think term limits were his problem.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The Power belongs to the People to restrict what the government - and government officials - can do.

And when people exercise that power by Constitutionally limiting what can be voted on, it's a limitation on democracy -- i.e., it is undemocratic. (Which doesn't make it bad.)

 

[MikeMan]

Because sometimes the most 'free market' or democratic ideological thing to do just doesn't work on a practical basis (such as a monopoly). So we need to make rules so one person (or party) cannot gain absolute power. Imagine President Joe is so popular he continues to get re-elected. He continually makes his party dominant and squashes all others. He may be a great guy, but when he finally dies or leaves office, you may be left with the next party leader (or 3 down the road) that has unfettered power, is not at 'great guy', and no real way to get him out. See Bath party in Iraq, etc... Putin has done same thing in Russia by skirting the consecutive term limits they have with a dummy figure, Medvedev, for one term.

We all bemoan politicians but the incumbent in House and Senate still win over 90% of the time. Apparently people don't like politicians but like 'their guy'. It's good to force new blood into the system in my opinion, even if it is not ideologically correct.

 

[Henry Ford]

Great Moses's tablet, turn in your democracy badge - all politicians serve at our will and pleasure, if we say they go in 2 terms, out they go.

Since you want me to turn in MY democracy badge, I have to ask, in your opinion, is the term limit more democratic, or less democratic?

It's definitely democratic because it was created by Constitutional Amendment.

You are limiting your definition of democracy strictly to the vote.

And 100 years ago there weren't term limits. Was it less democratic then? I don't think how 'democratic' either concept is has any bearing.

Well, yes, but not because of the term limit.

 

[LinusMarr]

Going back to my fetus years, the guys in my lifetime.....Reagan, Kennedy, and maybe even Clinton could get three terms. All the others, I was happy they did not.

I don't think term limits were his problem.

LOL