Why the Democrats are in trouble (for 2022 and perhaps beyond that) (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

So yesterday I listened to a podcast interview with two centrist pollsters, one Democrat, one Republican, and here’s what they had to say: 

1. Even though independents continue to shrink in numbers, they still decide control of government, particularly the House of Representatives (because so many seats there are gerrymandered, the ones remaining, which decides the balance, are based on whichever way independents swing.) 

2. Independents are currently most concerned about 3 issues, in this order: 1. Inflation/ the economy. 2. The border/immigration. 3. Covid. 

3. Independents are frustrated that Biden and the Democrats seem to be ignoring these issues. 
 

This doesn’t bode well for Democrats.  Here are my own thoughts: 

1. There is no short term fix for inflation. I personally believe that the current Democratic spending proposals are good for the nation, but they are likely to make the immediate inflation problem worse, not better. Yet if they refrain from these bills then they will appear to be inept failures. So in terms of the immediate electoral impact, I don’t think they can win either way. 

2. The folks who are most concerned with the border and immigration, which are Republicans and independents, generally want much more restrictions and desire the steps that Trump attempted to take. Most Democrats oppose such methods. My own view on this subject is no secret: personally I would rather the Democrats lose a thousand elections rather than give in on this issue. But I’m in the minority and now it appears the Democrats are as well. So it’s a political loser for them. 

3. The pandemic is going to be a problem, in the opinion of most health experts, so long as a significant portion of the population refuses to be vaccinated. And that’s not the fault of the Democrats. Still they are the ones perceived to be in charge, so they get the blame. 

4. There are two possibilities that could save the Democrats: first, Donald J. Trump. If the GOP ends up with a bunch of candidates too Trumpian, or if Trump continues to press his Big Lie nonsense, that could either energize Democrat turnout or diminish Republican turnout. Second, if Roe is overturned by the SC that could change the entire picture. 
 

But for now it doesn’t look good. And long term it doesn’t look good because the public is moving away from what the Democratic Party, as it becomes more progressive, is offering. And that particularly doesn’t bode well for climate change. Which worries me greatly. 

 

[timschochet]

On the last issue I mentioned, climate change, it seems to me there is a real problem with a free and democratic form of government, such as ours, trying to fix it. If you take a look at the concerns of the independents I discussed above, what they have in common is that they are tangible, immediate concerns that folks want the government to address so that they (the public) can see tangible, immediate results. All of voters’ top concerns, the ones that make them vote for or against candidates, fall into this category. 
Dealing with climate change usually involves government restrictions for the purpose of intangible goals- if we can reduce carbon emissions, maybe in 20 or 50 or 100 years we can reduce the effects of global warming, etc. Our political system isn’t cut out for such a plan. Ironically, you would probably need a dictatorship to make that work (not that I’m recommending one.) 

 

[dkp993]

I might be mistaken but didn’t you start a thread just like this a year or so ago but the GOP being the ones in trouble?……

 

[timschochet]

I might be mistaken but didn’t you start a thread just like this a year or so ago but the GOP being the ones in trouble?……

Sure. And they were. (And are. Demographic changes.) 

This however is a bit more immediate. 

 

[Stoneworker]

2. Independents are currently most concerned about 3 issues, in this order: 1. Inflation/ the economy. 2. The border/immigration. 3. Covid. 

3. Independents are frustrated that Biden and the Democrats seem to be ignoring these issues. 

You've answered your own questions right here. (btw 1 and 3 are tightly linked, dumb for the dems not to see this)

Plus you're wrong about climate change. Dems have golden oppty with the recon bill but they are blowing it by spending too much on free stuff.

 

[dkp993]

Sure. And they were. (And are. Demographic changes.) 

This however is a bit more immediate. 

But I thought the crux of that thread, again I could be wrong I’m going off memory, was they were in serious trouble and might not gain power again (just like the crux of this thread)

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There's also this:

SHOR: Precinct by precinct, you know, what we really found was that even though there were particularly market shifts, you know - in South Texas, there were 30-point swings in many counties. You know, there were counties that had voted for Democrats solidly in the 70 to 80% percent range since the 1890s that Trump either won or came very close to winning. And in South Florida generally and Florida in general, there was something like a 13 or 14% swing. That said, basically everywhere where there were large concentrations of Hispanic voters, there were large swings in the 6 to 9% range. And, you know, that ranges from, you know, the Bronx in New York to Arizona to Massachusetts to California. This was a national trend that happened basically everywhere. And, you know, one of the biggest predictors of switching from voting for Clinton in 2016 to voting in Trump were attitudes toward crime, attitudes toward policing. You know, I think that that's a microcosm for, like, a larger story.

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/11/1014967344/latino-voters-are-leaving-the-democratic-party

It's one election cycle so let's take this with a grain of salt, but the Democratic party has become something that isn't particularly appealing to Latino voters.  In principle, Republicans could do really well with this bloc if they can just stop being jerks on racial issues (unlikely) or if Latinos get re-coded as "white" the same way that the Irish and Italians did (pretty likely to happen in my lifetime IMO).

 

[Soonerman]

The inflation thing is very worrying.  Typically, we would raise interest rates to cool down inflation.  But now, with massive debt, raising interest rates means potentially unacceptable levels of spending just to pay interest on the debt.  The fiscal chickens are about to come home to roost.

 

[timschochet]

The inflation thing is very worrying.  Typically, we would raise interest rates to cool down inflation.  But now, with massive debt, raising interest rates means potentially unacceptable levels of spending just to pay interest on the debt.  The fiscal chickens are about to come home to roost.

We have very very low interest rates right now. Almost nonexistent. Perhaps there is room to raise them a little? 

 

[timschochet]

But I thought the crux of that thread, again I could be wrong I’m going off memory, was they were in serious trouble and might not gain power again (just like the crux of this thread)

Lol. What can I say? I’m a political schizophrenic. 
When I learn stuff I want to discuss it. There are long term trends that are bad for Republicans. There are other long term trends that are bad for Democrats. We will see. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The inflation thing is very worrying.  Typically, we would raise interest rates to cool down inflation.  But now, with massive debt, raising interest rates means potentially unacceptable levels of spending just to pay interest on the debt.  The fiscal chickens are about to come home to roost.

Yes, but our elected leaders understand that and I'm sure they'll exercise more fiscal discipline since that's the responsible thing to do.

 

[jamny]

There's also this:

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/11/1014967344/latino-voters-are-leaving-the-democratic-party

It's one election cycle so let's take this with a grain of salt, but the Democratic party has become something that isn't particularly appealing to Latino voters.  In principle, Republicans could do really well with this bloc if they can just stop being jerks on racial issues (unlikely) or if Latinos get re-coded as "white" the same way that the Irish and Italians did (pretty likely to happen in my lifetime IMO).

How many times can someone say "you know"   

 

[Gopher State]

The inflation thing is very worrying.  Typically, we would raise interest rates to cool down inflation.  But now, with massive debt, raising interest rates means potentially unacceptable levels of spending just to pay interest on the debt.  The fiscal chickens are about to come home to roost.

On talk radio this week they said that it will cost the average homeowner 54 percent more to heat their home this winter. They also stated that since Biden and the Dems took control in Washington, banks, private investors no longer want to invest in fossil fuel, drilling, research, no new pipelines (if even allowed by Biden), they felt that high energy  prices will be here for a while.  Also, our good friends in the Middle East are not interested in increasing production to help us out.  Inflation will get worst before it gets better.

 

[Stoneworker]

On talk radio this week they said that it will cost the average homeowner 54 percent more to heat their home this winter. They also stated that since Biden and the Dems took control in Washington, banks, private investors no longer want to invest in fossil fuel, drilling, research, no new pipelines (if even allowed by Biden), they felt that high energy  prices will be here for a while.  Also, our good friends in the Middle East are not interested in increasing production to help us out.  Inflation will get worst before it gets better.

Agreed. Plus there is zero chance Yellen will let her BFF Powell raise rates prior to the '22 elections...no way will they risk popping the everything bubble before people go to the polls.

 

[joffer]

On talk radio this week they said that it will cost the average homeowner 54 percent more to heat their home this winter. They also stated that since Biden and the Dems took control in Washington, banks, private investors no longer want to invest in fossil fuel, drilling, research, no new pipelines (if even allowed by Biden), they felt that high energy  prices will be here for a while.  Also, our good friends in the Middle East are not interested in increasing production to help us out.  Inflation will get worst before it gets better.

great to hear

 

[Shula-holic]

great to hear

Sure, if you're the Saudis

 

[joffer]

Sure, if you're the Saudis

or me

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Agreed. Plus there is zero chance Yellen will let her BFF Powell raise rates prior to the '22 elections...no way will they risk popping the everything bubble before people go to the polls.

I strongly disagree with this one.  Setting aside the consideration of the Fed being independent of the administration (which I know folks will dispute), it's not in Biden's interest to have inflation running rampant in 2024.  It's not like we're talking about 1983-level interest rates or anything like that.  More like 1990s-level.

 

[Shula-holic]

or me

I'm assuming you understand that where oil is made or refined has no impact on global demand.  Thereby, zero net impact on climate change.  Since it's a global commodity, why do you prefer the Saudi's (or some other OPEC nation or Russia) make the money on this as opposed to someone in America?

 

[timschochet]

  It's not like we're talking about 1983-level interest rates or anything like that.  More like 1990s-level.

This was my point earlier

 

[joffer]

I'm assuming you understand that where oil is made or refined has no impact on global demand.  Thereby, zero net impact on climate change.  Since it's a global commodity, why do you prefer the Saudi's (or some other OPEC nation or Russia) make the money on this as opposed to someone in America?

It will have a net effect eventually.  change where the money is being invested, and you can change where the energy eventually comes from.  

 

[Stoneworker]

I strongly disagree with this one.  Setting aside the consideration of the Fed being independent of the administration (which I know folks will dispute), it's not in Biden's interest to have inflation running rampant in 2024.  It's not like we're talking about 1983-level interest rates or anything like that.  More like 1990s-level.

Lol. The entire economy is built on a house of cards called inflated asset prices. Do you have any idea what even 50 basis point increase in interest rates will do to asset valuations?

 

[Shula-holic]

It will have a net effect eventually.  change where the money is being invested, and you can change where the energy eventually comes from.  

But from an investment side it's not a zero sum equation, not an either/or.  For instance, Chevron or Conoco Phillips aren't foregoing alternative source development because they have finite funds and if they produce and develop more oil/gas sources they won't therefore find alternative solutions.  If anything, by pushing production to these other countries who often have hostile interests to our own, we are backing their regimes financially and creating more power for them. 

If you want to curtail demand, a financially viable alternative has to be developed.  I'd guess we agree on that, but I don't think you can force it through the production of the alternative product because someone is always going to be there to provide that demand because it's a proven technology that we will rely on until the day there is a financially viable alternative.  Therefore all production and usage will be equal, we are just choosing to give those revenues to Putin or OPEC states as opposed to keeping it at home.

 

[quick-hands]

On the last issue I mentioned, climate change, it seems to me there is a real problem with a free and democratic form of government, such as ours, trying to fix it. If you take a look at the concerns of the independents I discussed above, what they have in common is that they are tangible, immediate concerns that folks want the government to address so that they (the public) can see tangible, immediate results. All of voters’ top concerns, the ones that make them vote for or against candidates, fall into this category. 
Dealing with climate change usually involves government restrictions for the purpose of intangible goals- if we can reduce carbon emissions, maybe in 20 or 50 or 100 years we can reduce the effects of global warming, etc. Our political system isn’t cut out for such a plan. Ironically, you would probably need a dictatorship to make that work (not that I’m recommending one.) 

you may not be recommending it.   But you seem seem to always suggest it.   If a leftist strongman came to power in the Democratic party you would support him.

then say thats not what i meant.

 

[timschochet]

 If a leftist strongman came to power in the Democratic party you would support him.

Of course I would. Your perception is off the charts. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Yeah I’m worried too but I do think the Republicans are perfectly capable of missing the layup.

 

[Shula-holic]

Yeah I’m worried too but I do think the Republicans are perfectly capable of missing the layup.

They sure are, see the timing of the abortion law in Texas.  It's like the bipartisan infrastructure bill for the Democrats and not taking the win.  Sometimes you need to take a win or just stay out of your own way while the other party screws it up.  Neither can do it.

 

[The Future Champs]

No data to back this up, but I think the Dems obsession with identity politics doesn't play well with Hispanics.

 

[parasaurolophus]

No data to back this up, but I think the Dems obsession with identity politics doesn't play well with Hispanics.

You mean hispanix. 

 

[dkp993]

No data to back this up, but I think the Dems obsession with identity politics doesn't play well with Hispanics.

I think it doesn’t play well with about 70% of the country.  But just like Trumpism each respective 30% some how controls the party.  

 

[timschochet]

No data to back this up, but I think the Dems obsession with identity politics doesn't play well with Hispanics.

I think you’re right but there’s a lot of contradictory evidence about Hispanic viewpoints. 
For example, this recent Pew Research poll suggests that 8 in 10 Hispanics view climate change as a top priority- that’s about 20% higher a percentage than non- Hispanics: 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/04/most-u-s-latinos-say-global-climate-change-and-other-environmental-issues-impact-their-local-communities/

If that poll is to be believed, the logical conclusion would be for these Hispanics to vote Democrat, since whatever flaws Democrats may have about climate change, the Republican response is inaction. However, people are never necessarily logical. 

 

[Gopher State]

great to hear

Agreed, I have an oil ETF fund up 45 percent YTD.  I drive a Tesla and have solar on both of my homes, so it is great!

 

[The Future Champs]

I think you’re right but there’s a lot of contradictory evidence about Hispanic viewpoints. 
For example, this recent Pew Research poll suggests that 8 in 10 Hispanics view climate change as a top priority- that’s about 20% higher a percentage than non- Hispanics: 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/04/most-u-s-latinos-say-global-climate-change-and-other-environmental-issues-impact-their-local-communities/

If that poll is to be believed, the logical conclusion would be for these Hispanics to vote Democrat, since whatever flaws Democrats may have about climate change, the Republican response is inaction. However, people are never necessarily logical. 

That has nothing to do with Hispanics and identity politics.

Even if the pole is correct, and it might well be, it still doesn't follow that Hispanics will vote Democrat, as it only says that climate change is "a top priority".   The wording here is suspect.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

There's a big difference between believing an issue is important and believing a particular parties' approach is correct.

 

[timschochet]

There's a big difference between believing an issue is important and believing a particular parties' approach is correct.

That’s true- or at least it would be true if both parties had an approach. 
But since, in the case of climate change, the Republican approach is “do nothing”, it’s hard not to assume that anyone who regards this issue as a primary concern is going to vote Democrat. 

 

[BladeRunner]

That’s true- or at least it would be true if both parties had an approach. 
But since, in the case of climate change, the Republican approach is “do nothing”, it’s hard not to assume that anyone who regards this issue as a primary concern is going to vote Democrat. 

I'm not so sure their approach is "Do Nothing" than it is "Let's not handicap America".  Lots of Conservatives/GOP like myself believe we should be good stewards of the environment regardless of whether things are happening or not.  We all want clean water, air, rivers, lakes, etc....but that doesn't mean we throw out the baby with the bath water either.  The Dems/left want EVERYTHING done now, whatever it may cost.  That's not a reasonable position at all.  Their "solution" will bankrupt and handicap America while the rest of the world's real big polluters like China, India, etc...continue to do what they do and then laugh at us, all the while promising, "Sure, we'll agree to that (wink-wink)" but really continuing business as usual.

They get to continue to pollute, expand their world standing and at the same time get to watch America decline.  Win-win for them and the American left.

I think more GOP would be in line if the left - instead of demonizing everyone that doesn't agree with them - would just come to the table in good faith.  Until that happens, Global Cooling, Global Warming, Climate Change (climate is always changing, btw) will be a non-starter.  

 

[timschochet]

I'm not so sure their approach is "Do Nothing" than it is "Let's not handicap America".  Lots of Conservatives/GOP like myself believe we should be good stewards of the environment regardless of whether things are happening or not.  We all want clean water, air, rivers, lakes, etc....but that doesn't mean we throw out the baby with the bath water either.  The Dems/left want EVERYTHING done now, whatever it may cost.  That's not a reasonable position at all.

I think more GOP would be in line if the left - instead of demonizing everyone that doesn't agree with them - would just come to the table in good faith.  Until that happens, Global Cooling, Global Warming, Climate Change (climate is always changing, btw) will be a non-starter.  

I think it’s a fair representation. My evidence is that there hasn’t been a single proposal by the Republican Party to deal with climate change. Not one. They have rejected 100% of Democratic proposals and have never offered one of their own. 
 

 

[BladeRunner]

I think it’s a fair representation. My evidence is that there hasn’t been a single proposal by the Republican Party to deal with climate change. Not one. They have rejected 100% of Democratic proposals and have never offered one of their own. 
 

Yeah, I"m not aware of any either.

 

[supermike80]

I think it’s a fair representation. My evidence is that there hasn’t been a single proposal by the Republican Party to deal with climate change. Not one. They have rejected 100% of Democratic proposals and have never offered one of their own. 
 

Proposals which you yourself have said you don't thibk are effective.   

 

[timschochet]

Proposals which you yourself have said you don't thibk are effective.   

Many of them. You’re right about that, though my position is in a minority among Democrats. 
I’m not criticizing Republican opposition to Democratic ideas on this issue. Many of their arguments in opposition make a lot of sense (to me anyhow.) What I AM criticizing is their refusal to do anything at all. 
As I recall, your own position is that it’s too late; we should just accept the inevitably of climate change. Even if that’s true we should at least be better prepared for the fires and hurricanes and extreme weather that we’re going to be facing more and more in coming years, and we should take steps to try and protect our shoreline communities (or attempt to relocate them.) But the GOP refuses to consider anything along these lines either. 

 

[ekbeats]

I don’t think I’ve ever been this concerned with the economy.  Feels like it’s a house of cards ready to fall.   Biden inspires no confidence, especially when he keeps saying we should go on a spending spree and that it won’t add another dime to the deficit.

 

[supermike80]

Many of them. You’re right about that, though my position is in a minority among Democrats. 
I’m not criticizing Republican opposition to Democratic ideas on this issue. Many of their arguments in opposition make a lot of sense (to me anyhow.) What I AM criticizing is their refusal to do anything at all. 
As I recall, your own position is that it’s too late; we should just accept the inevitably of climate change. Even if that’s true we should at least be better prepared for the fires and hurricanes and extreme weather that we’re going to be facing more and more in coming years, and we should take steps to try and protect our shoreline communities (or attempt to relocate them.) But the GOP refuses to consider anything along these lines either. 

False.  Completely False.  We have better warning systems for severe storms and that continues to improve. Building codes are more and more being changed to mandate stronger protections in hurricane prone areas. Youre just wrong.  

 

[Summer Wheat]

I don’t think I’ve ever been this concerned with the economy.  Feels like it’s a house of cards ready to fall.   Biden inspires no confidence, especially when he keeps saying we should go on a spending spree and that it won’t add another dime to the deficit.

The soaring inflation rate and cost of living increase since Biden took over is killing the lower income folk. Cutting checks it like winning a football square.. it is pissed away fast.    It is the main thing that will cost Dems the house and probably next POTUS election if it keeps up.  To the regular Joes of all races and parties that is only thing we really care about.

 

[Stoneworker]

Many of them. You’re right about that, though my position is in a minority among Democrats. 
I’m not criticizing Republican opposition to Democratic ideas on this issue. Many of their arguments in opposition make a lot of sense (to me anyhow.) What I AM criticizing is their refusal to do anything at all. 
As I recall, your own position is that it’s too late; we should just accept the inevitably of climate change. Even if that’s true we should at least be better prepared for the fires and hurricanes and extreme weather that we’re going to be facing more and more in coming years, and we should take steps to try and protect our shoreline communities (or attempt to relocate them.) But the GOP refuses to consider anything along these lines either. 

To be fair, the GOP is actually not completely devoid of supporting climate-related investments. It's just that the "C" words can't be in the headline.

For example, the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill (even McConnell voted yes) contains numerous climate-related investments.

A total of $7.5 billion will go to implementing a network of electric vehicle chargers, and another $7.5 billion will be used for zero-emission or low-emission buses and ferries. 

The group agreed to spend $50 billion to bolster the country’s infrastructure generally against climate change and cyberattacks. Another $55 billion will go toward clean drinking water... The deal invests $21 billion in removing pollution from soil and groundwater, job creation in energy communities and a focus on economic and environmental justice. The legislation will include $73 billion to update and expand the power grid.

Source: WSJ

 

[ekbeats]

Even CNN is raising the alarm.

(CNN)President Joe Biden's popularity is at the lowest point of his administration. He's averaging about a 43% approval rating, with recently released polls from Gallup (42%) and Grinnell College (37%) coming in even lower. 

While the causes of Biden's decline are numerous(e.g. declining trust of his handling of the coronavirus pandemic and the American troop withdrawal from Afghanistan), perhaps the biggest one is that Americans believe there are big economic problems and that Biden isn't focused nearly enough on them. These negative perceptions of Democrats on the economy are impacting the marquee Virginia gubernatorial election, too. 

Approval of Biden on the economy has tracked almost perfectly with approval of him overall. Right now, his economic approval is in the low 40s, just as it is overall. In the early summer, it was in the low 50s -- as it was overall then, too. 

This decline comes as consumer confidence in the government's economic policy has noticeably declined over the last six months, according to the University of Michigan. American consumer sentiment is significantly worse than it was a month before President Donald Trump was booted from office a year ago. 

Take a look at the top concerns most Americans have right now. According to a Fox News pollreleased this week, 53% of voters said they were extremely concerned about inflation and higher prices. No other issue topped 50%. 

A recent CBS News/YouGov poll points to why inflation (and the economy at large) is a problem for Biden. A clear majority (60%) of Americans believe that Biden is not focusing enough on inflation. No other issue tested showed that many Americans who thought Biden had not paid enough attention.

A low 37% say that Biden and his fellow Democrats are focusing on the issues they care a lot about. 

This jibes with what voters say about infrastructure. A major part of Biden's agenda is the infrastructure plan that has passed the Senate. But just 27% of voters put infrastructure down as a major concern of theirs.

You can contrast it to climate change, too. Combating climate change is part of Biden's Build Back Better plan, which is the other bill Democrats are trying to pass through Congress. A mere 35% of voters say that's an extremely important concern of theirs. 

Though there are other parts of the Build Back Better plan that poll quite well, the overall perception of the deal is one that won't be particularly helpful to the economy. Only about 40% of Americans say the Build Back Better plan would help them or the nation's economy. 

Of course, economic troubles aren't just a national issue. 

We've seen Democrat Terry McAuliffe's lead over Republican Glenn Youngkin decline over the last few months. What once was a mid-to-high single digit advantage has shrunk to a mere 2 points in the average poll, an edge that is well within any margin of error. 

Although much has been made about education, this isn't the most important issue to voters in Virginia. Instead, it's the economy and jobs (asked as a pair). More voters (27%) said the economy and jobs was the most important issue in their vote for governor than any other issue in a recent Monmouth University poll. More than that, this 27% is up from 21% who said it was the most important issue last month. 

Indeed, one of the biggest edges Youngkin has over McAuliffe on any issue is the economy and jobs. By a 5-point margin, more voters trust Youngkin over McAuliffe on the economy. The only issue on which Youngkin holds a larger advantage is taxes, which is another economic issue. 

The fact that the economy is playing such a large role both nationally and Virginia shouldn't be a surprise when taking the long historical view. Normally, the economy plays a predominant role in our politics. It's just that over the last five years, amid the entirety of the Trump administration and the coronavirus pandemic, the economy seemed to take a back seat. 

After nine months of the Biden administration, though, what the American electorate is saying is a sign that our politics are becoming a little more normal again.

 

[Snotbubbles]

We have very very low interest rates right now. Almost nonexistent. Perhaps there is room to raise them a little? 

Raising interest rates will effect employment numbers.  So you can possibly fix one problem to create another one.

 

[timschochet]

The poll @ekbeats is reporting is indicative of the problems we as a society face when we attempt to combat climate change. The public is generally concerned about climate change, they’re in favor of doing something about it UNTIL there is economic impact. When the economy is troubled the public demands we address that and climate change needs to be sacrificed. 
 

You can’t blame the public for being primarily concerned about the economy, always and forever. But since fighting climate change demands long term solutions that are always very likely going to have short term negative economic impact, it’s difficult to see how we will ever get anywhere with this. 

 

[Snotbubbles]

The poll @ekbeats is reporting is indicative of the problems we as a society face when we attempt to combat climate change. The public is generally concerned about climate change, they’re in favor of doing something about it UNTIL there is economic impact. When the economy is troubled the public demands we address that and climate change needs to be sacrificed. 
 

You can’t blame the public for being primarily concerned about the economy, always and forever. But since fighting climate change demands long term solutions that are always very likely going to have short term negative economic impact, it’s difficult to see how we will ever get anywhere with this. 

If China has no intention of dealing with their carbon omissions, then what sense does it make to hurt ourselves economically?  We share the same planet, so you need everyone to get on board.  Until that time comes, climate change proposals have to factor in other areas.

 

[timschochet]

If China has no intention of dealing with their carbon omissions, then what sense does it make to hurt ourselves economically?  We share the same planet, so you need everyone to get on board.  Until that time comes, climate change proposals have to factor in other areas.

To say that “China has no intention” is not a good argument. They could certainly be doing more. But they did sign the Paris agreement (we pulled out of it). Here is a CFR analysis of everything China is doing: 

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-climate-change-policies-environmental-degradation

 

[Stoneworker]

The poll @ekbeats is reporting is indicative of the problems we as a society face when we attempt to combat climate change. The public is generally concerned about climate change, they’re in favor of doing something about it UNTIL there is economic impact. When the economy is troubled the public demands we address that and climate change needs to be sacrificed. 
You can’t blame the public for being primarily concerned about the economy, always and forever. But since fighting climate change demands long term solutions that are always very likely going to have short term negative economic impact, it’s difficult to see how we will ever get anywhere with this. 

You really don't have any clue what you're talking about on the topic of climate change. So please stop spreading misinformation about what the general public wants. The public is already expressing itself quite well in the marketplace.

For starters, do you even understand how a technology adoption and cost curves work? Any idea how they've trended and what the future trends are for renewables, EV's and batteries? What the economics are for distributed and utility-scale electricity generation?