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Why would Texans pay $$$$$ (1 Viewer)

Adrian Peterson

Footballguy
Bush would not be cheap demanding a HUGE rookie contract. If the Texans had concerns at RB - why would they not sign a player like Edgerrin and use their pick on a trade down and grab Ferguson?

This is why I question if the Texans will grab a back with their first pick overall.

 

Adrian Peterson

Footballguy
I don't see how that helps. Edge is probably going to sign for more than Bush.
Does anyone know the difference in what Edge would make next year versus what first pick would demand this year in dollars?
 

diesel7982

Footballguy
Bush and Edge are two very dissimilar players who would have very different roles in an offense.

To say you could replace one with another is foolish.

 

Don Quixote

Footballguy
Alex Smith signed last year for 6 years, $25m guaranteed ($48m with bonuses).

Edge signed last year for 1 year, $8m (franchised).

Edge will sign a bigger contract than Bush (at least in guaranteed money).

 

Keys Myaths

Pokerguy
Bush and Edge are two very dissimilar players who would have very different roles in an offense.

To say you could replace one with another is foolish.
I beg to differ with that.
Why?And you do realize that Bush has about 9 productive years in the NFL ahead of him, compared to Edge's 3 (max), right?

 

Adrian Peterson

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.

 
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UrlacherIsGod

Footballguy
And until Houston gets an offensive line, I'd stick With Dominack Davis/Jonathan Wells. Edge and Bush would be dead ducks in Houston.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.
:confused:
 

Adrian Peterson

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

  Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back  - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.
:confused:
Bush has not proven he can carry 25 times per game.Bush has not proven he is an NFL back yet.

Bush has not proven he can run inside in the NFL yet.

 

coolnerd

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

  Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back  - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.
:confused:
Bush has not proven he can carry 25 times per game.Bush has not proven he is an NFL back yet.

Bush has not proven he can run inside in the NFL yet.
Bush should not be used in the manner of a traditional RB. If a team is smart they will use him split wide and in the slot as much if not more the line-up behind the QB. That's where his value is from. At least in his first couple of years (if not longer), no should asking him to run 20-22 zone stretch plays a game like Edge was asked to do in Indy.
 

Ozymandias

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

  Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back  - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.
:confused:
Bush has not proven he can carry 25 times per game.Bush has not proven he is an NFL back yet.

Bush has not proven he can run inside in the NFL yet.
Absolutely true.But then, Marshall Faulk hadn't proved those three things; Priest Holmes hadn't proved those three things; in fact, even Jim Brown and Emmitt Smith hadn't proved those three things. The draft is all about possibilities; none of it is proven.

 

Adrian Peterson

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

  Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back  - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.
:confused:
Bush has not proven he can carry 25 times per game.Bush has not proven he is an NFL back yet.

Bush has not proven he can run inside in the NFL yet.
Bush should not be used in the manner of a traditional RB. If a team is smart they will use him split wide and in the slot as much if not more the line-up behind the QB. That's where his value is from. At least in his first couple of years (if not longer), no should asking him to run 20-22 zone stretch plays a game like Edge was asked to do in Indy.
So - they drafting a WR - not a RB?
 

coolnerd

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

  Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back  - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.
:confused:
Bush has not proven he can carry 25 times per game.Bush has not proven he is an NFL back yet.

Bush has not proven he can run inside in the NFL yet.
Bush should not be used in the manner of a traditional RB. If a team is smart they will use him split wide and in the slot as much if not more the line-up behind the QB. That's where his value is from. At least in his first couple of years (if not longer), no should asking him to run 20-22 zone stretch plays a game like Edge was asked to do in Indy.
So - they drafting a WR - not a RB?
Many would argue that the team drafting Reggie Bush is getting both.Seriously, you should not be posting anything about a player who you obviously have not watched, nor have at least bothered to read one of the 10,000 draft scouting reports on.

 
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diesel7982

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

  Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back  - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.
:confused:
Bush has not proven he can carry 25 times per game.Bush has not proven he is an NFL back yet.

Bush has not proven he can run inside in the NFL yet.
Bush should not be used in the manner of a traditional RB. If a team is smart they will use him split wide and in the slot as much if not more the line-up behind the QB. That's where his value is from. At least in his first couple of years (if not longer), no should asking him to run 20-22 zone stretch plays a game like Edge was asked to do in Indy.
So - they drafting a WR - not a RB?
They are drafting an offensive weapon. This isnt Madden, NFL players dont have to just play one specific position.
 

cstu

Footballguy
You have no idea what Bush will bring to the NFL - let alone the statement he has 9 productive years ahead of him.

Edgerrin gives the Texans the complete back - Bush gives them a limited RB who will cost them large money for an unproven RB - who has not translated his skills to the NFL.
:confused:
Bush has not proven he can carry 25 times per game.Bush has not proven he is an NFL back yet.

Bush has not proven he can run inside in the NFL yet.
Pretty ridiculous coming from Adrian Peterson.
 

Wildman

Footballguy
I like the idea of Houston going after James and building their line.

That said, I think this is actually a fun subject to debate because their strengths and weaknesses would say a lot about the direction the team would like to go if hypothetically, the Texans select one or the other:

Bush is a home run threat every time he touches the ball. Edgerrin James lost that about 4-5 years ago. The pick of Bush for this fact alone would signify the Texans want to combine Bush with Andre Johnson to form an explosive offense where one play can change the game. Most teams want this dimension, but to have it from two players is quite a threat. The Chiefs, and Eagles (before T.O went nuts) had this dimension with a WR and RB. The Rams used to have it when Faulk was in his prime.

James coupled with some FA additions to the o-line would signify the Texans think they can turn around their woes quickly. James in my opinion is the best all-around, short game back in the NFL today. What I mean by a short game back isn't just being a goal line back. There are several that are better than James in this department--though he's better than he's given credit for (Colts are more about technique than power) in the media--but here's what I mean:

James is a terrific back when it comes to gain 4-7 yards in just about any situation. He's patient, breaks tackles, has great short area elusivenss, and generally gains yards as he is going down. He gets lower than most any back in the league, and this allows him to have the leverage advantage when taking on a defender. James is an excellent receiver that has not been utilized as much in recent years, but as a rookie he had some noticeably long receptions.

As the Colts line got weaker, the WRs and TEs got better, James became more valued as a pass blocker. As a pass blocker, James is regarded as one of the best in the league. Don't think that Houston wouldn't want this part of James' game? Especially if they could bring in some quality, veteran lineman. Reggie Bush is okay as a pass blocker, but he's going to need work. He's more of a dive at the legs (and not get hurt) style of blocker right now. He shows some aggressiveness but doesn't get into the body of a player. He rarely is asked to stay in to pass block anyhow.

Bush is a good inside runner. The whole "will Bush be a good every down back" is media driven over-analysis, IMO. Why? Bush and White were treated much like Tommy Tuberville treated Brown and Williams. Both were high recruits that needed playing time to remain at their respective schools. If you are a good coach, you practice these guys, evaluate their strengths relative to each other, and put them on the field in roles that allow the team to maximize their best skills.

People look at the results of this process and assume if Bush is split out at receiver or runs the ball on designed plays to the outside (or bounces plays outside) that he's not a good insider runner. The problem is they haven't seen him do it enough in limited carries. When Bush has 15-18 carries, his attempts to bounce the play outside accounts for a higher perecentage of his touches. But if Bush were given the every down role, he's probably bounce it outside about the same amount as most feature backs. Some of his best runs were up the gut of the defense.

The reason I think USC uses these roles is to keep these two backs satisfied with their playing time and be able to tell future recruits they'll see the field regardless of their talent. All they have to do is use Brown-Williams as an example of how the higher recruit actually got drafted after the lower one that didn't even start at Auburn! USC can sell recruits that they have two, first-round RBs and if that recruit is an RB he'll see the field if he has the talent. Plus the most important reason for splitting time is offensive diversity, which helps win ballgames.

So I don't think Bush's skill to be a feature back is any more in question than just about any other quality draft prospect. Watch the film and his skills project well for the NFL game.

Personally, I think the Texans will have a tough time not selecting Bush unless they pull off one of those deals of the century with another team--ala Vikings/Cowboys for Herschel Walker. D'Brickshaw Ferguson seems to be Mel Kiper's personal favorite, but many others project him to be on par with Robert Gallery (if not lesser to him) rather than a dominant force from the get go like Boselli, Ogden, Jones, etc. Houston had it right when they originally selected Boselli, but the injuries ruined their game plan. Still, they need more than one lineman.

Is there a team out there than has the firepower to make this happen and wants Bush this bad?

Of course, I'd love the Titans to make the move but everyone sees them thinking QB of the future. I'd rather trade up, get Bush, and pick a guy like Omar Jacobs or Brody Croyle later...I think Leinart isn't worth a franchise pick. I like Young but Bush is the best "sure thing" candidate of this draft. I'm sure Norm Chow will use him well! Probably not going to happen...

 

diesel7982

Footballguy
I like the idea of Houston going after James and building their line.

That said, I think this is actually a fun subject to debate because their strengths and weaknesses would say a lot about the direction the team would like to go if hypothetically, the Texans select one or the other:

Bush is a home run threat every time he touches the ball. Edgerrin James lost that about 4-5 years ago. The pick of Bush for this fact alone would signify the Texans want to combine Bush with Andre Johnson to form an explosive offense where one play can change the game. Most teams want this dimension, but to have it from two players is quite a threat. The Chiefs, and Eagles (before T.O went nuts) had this dimension with a WR and RB. The Rams used to have it when Faulk was in his prime.

James coupled with some FA additions to the o-line would signify the Texans think they can turn around their woes quickly. James in my opinion is the best all-around, short game back in the NFL today. What I mean by a short game back isn't just being a goal line back. There are several that are better than James in this department--though he's better than he's given credit for (Colts are more about technique than power) in the media--but here's what I mean:

James is a terrific back when it comes to gain 4-7 yards in just about any situation. He's patient, breaks tackles, has great short area elusivenss, and generally gains yards as he is going down. He gets lower than most any back in the league, and this allows him to have the leverage advantage when taking on a defender. James is an excellent receiver that has not been utilized as much in recent years, but as a rookie he had some noticeably long receptions.

As the Colts line got weaker, the WRs and TEs got better, James became more valued as a pass blocker. As a pass blocker, James is regarded as one of the best in the league. Don't think that Houston wouldn't want this part of James' game? Especially if they could bring in some quality, veteran lineman. Reggie Bush is okay as a pass blocker, but he's going to need work. He's more of a dive at the legs (and not get hurt) style of blocker right now. He shows some aggressiveness but doesn't get into the body of a player. He rarely is asked to stay in to pass block anyhow.

Bush is a good inside runner. The whole "will Bush be a good every down back" is media driven over-analysis, IMO. Why? Bush and White were treated much like Tommy Tuberville treated Brown and Williams. Both were high recruits that needed playing time to remain at their respective schools. If you are a good coach, you practice these guys, evaluate their strengths relative to each other, and put them on the field in roles that allow the team to maximize their best skills.

People look at the results of this process and assume if Bush is split out at receiver or runs the ball on designed plays to the outside (or bounces plays outside) that he's not a good insider runner. The problem is they haven't seen him do it enough in limited carries. When Bush has 15-18 carries, his attempts to bounce the play outside accounts for a higher perecentage of his touches. But if Bush were given the every down role, he's probably bounce it outside about the same amount as most feature backs. Some of his best runs were up the gut of the defense.

The reason I think USC uses these roles is to keep these two backs satisfied with their playing time and be able to tell future recruits they'll see the field regardless of their talent. All they have to do is use Brown-Williams as an example of how the higher recruit actually got drafted after the lower one that didn't even start at Auburn! USC can sell recruits that they have two, first-round RBs and if that recruit is an RB he'll see the field if he has the talent. Plus the most important reason for splitting time is offensive diversity, which helps win ballgames.

So I don't think Bush's skill to be a feature back is any more in question than just about any other quality draft prospect. Watch the film and his skills project well for the NFL game.

Personally, I think the Texans will have a tough time not selecting Bush unless they pull off one of those deals of the century with another team--ala Vikings/Cowboys for Herschel Walker. D'Brickshaw Ferguson seems to be Mel Kiper's personal favorite, but many others project him to be on par with Robert Gallery (if not lesser to him) rather than a dominant force from the get go like Boselli, Ogden, Jones, etc. Houston had it right when they originally selected Boselli, but the injuries ruined their game plan. Still, they need more than one lineman.

Is there a team out there than has the firepower to make this happen and wants Bush this bad?



Of course, I'd love the Titans to make the move but everyone sees them thinking QB of the future. I'd rather trade up, get Bush, and pick a guy like Omar Jacobs or Brody Croyle later...I think Leinart isn't worth a franchise pick. I like Young but Bush is the best "sure thing" candidate of this draft. I'm sure Norm Chow will use him well! Probably not going to happen...
How do you see this being possible? The Titans wouldnt have another 1st day pick if they move up.
 

Wildman

Footballguy
Like I implied at the end, I don't think it can happen, but Jacobs seems to be dropping a bit and his mechanics worry people. I know VY is a first day pick despite his mechanics but unlike Jacobs, he can change the game as a runner. Jacobs is a pure pocket passer playing for a smaller school who failed to capitalize on a great junior season. Personally, I like Jacobs a lot and think he has a shot to be a very good NFL QB if he gets in a decent situation. I know you are a Titans fan as well, so forgive me if I'm just day dreaming aloud here...

 

2112

Footballguy
The Texans must address their pitiful O-line. I certainly hope that much of this Bush talk is about inflating their trade values for that # 1 pick.

 

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