Jayrod
Footballguy
This is a joke, right?
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Wife uses sex as a weapon (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Patrick Bateman
- Start date
Boom Switch
Footballguy
No, I cant get into a furnished apt until july 1st so im at home with the wife trying to sell our house. Even tho we dont want to be married to eachother we still enjoy sleeping with the other. We got it goin on....
Pick
Footballguy
And gratefully so.Pick is a weird dude.Hang in there, Bud.Yeah, it's pretty awful.
Bogart
Footballguy
Scheduled with a counselor. May 12th. Going to be a pretty cold 2 weeks.Had two conversations that have not gone well, mostly ending with her feeling like it's all her fault, no matter how many times I tell her this is a mutual problem.
while I know most FBG's are pron stars.....there are certain things that a man just cannot do as well as a battery operated device for their woman.....if you haven't already, try introducing one into your sessions together.....
then do it again....
report back.....
you're welcome....
then do it again....
report back.....
you're welcome....
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Walton Goggins
Footballguy
It's much easier if you simply no longer want to have sex to blame it on the other. It's a win/win for them that no longer want it.
mr. furley
Footballguy
it's not
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
Is that really the case?
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
If this is not a mutual problem then don't lie to your wife.
Bogart
Footballguy
Wrong choice of words. I simply told her that I am trying to find the problem, so WE can find answers and move on. Trying to take equal responsibility to finding the solution. If she is going to put up yet another wall because I am blaming her for everything and leaving up to her to fix alone, it will never get solved.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
Got it
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Good luck Bogart. :droptheantlersonem:
bmetz
Footballguy
Is this a librarian's way of saying that she's cheating on you?
Boom Switch
Footballguy
You guys are way more patient than i. After a month of this garbage i would be on facebook chatting it up with some single female friends. 
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I've posted a rather consistent response in these type of threads. No matter if your marriage is a religious one or a secular one, in the end, the most important aspect of any marriage is communication. If you can't talk to your wife about everything and anything, then what exactly is the point of the relationship? In a spiritual home, the union is one of sacrifice and service, in the secular home the oath taken is one of honor and committment to the needs of the other, among other things.
But beyond that I have to continue to disagree with the posters that always go right to the advice of the husband having to change everything in these types of situations. Sex is a normal act of humanity and it's a rather important and fundamental part of the marriage relationship. In all other aspects of the relationship, another avenue to satisfaction or enjoyment can be realized except in this one area. If your wife doesn't cook or clean, you can eat out or get a maid or some variants. If your wife doesn't enjoy the same things you do you do them with your friends. And on and on and on. But when it comes to sex and the very real physical and emotional need for it in men, once we're married we have no choice and no outlet - it's the wife or nothing - her rules. "No, I don't want to and hell no you can't find someone else because that isn't fair to me." Please.
Assuming for the purposes of this discussion, as usual, that the husband is providing, caring, loving and doing the things he needs to do, sex is neither a weapon nor a chore. It is the wife that must change. Far too many American women seem to think that controlling sex is their purpose on this planet. The second any wife, for any reasons, uses sex as a weapon or a reward or treats it like a chore, a very important part of the marriage goes on life support. The laundry getting done does not equal sex. Cleaning the house is not more important than sex. Raising the children is not more important than sex. Nothing is, at the end of the day. If you can't share the physical and emotional aspects of a relationship with your wife because she is 'too tired' from the mundane life she lives it's her problem.
What exactly is there to be bored over? Your husband works every day. Many of us in jobs that, in the end, we don't get the pleasure out of we want to or once did. But we do it because it's a responsiblity that most of us take very seriously. The chivalry and romance of sweeping the wife off her feet in dating doesn't end in marriage, but it does change. Instead of flowers and gifts that frankly are a waste and too expensive in reality, you get a mortgage paid, food on the table and someone who will always be there for you. That's more important any day of the week.
Women in the country have been sold a really fraudulent bill of goods on relationships with men. Our needs are nothing more than chores to get done if and when the others get done. We are punchlines and usually too stupid to be taken out of the house like some pet. Our media entertainment has turned the father and husband in to the laugh track. And throughout it all we're told that we need to work harder, we need to give more, we need to basically kill ourselves early (which men still do) to make them happy at every turn and maybe, if we're good boys, we may get some action.
Sorry, that isn't what marriage is. If a wife treats it like that, it's their fault. In the spiritual sense, I have to love my wife like Christ loved His church - sacrifically putting her above all things. The caveat, such as it is, is that she needs to love me in the reciprocal submissive manner of meeting my needs as well. Not the submission of bondage (unless that's your thing) but the submission of her needs taking second place. As a result both work together to meet each other's needs above all. In the secular relationship, honor, cherish, sickness and health, and all the rest of the promises that are made are for both sides, not just one. The oath doesn't say keep buying her things, work your ### off, do everything she says, and maybe, just maybe, if the dishes are clean at night and she hasn't had a tough day maybe you can beg for some physical and emotional satisfaction - oh, and of course you can do nothing right, her friends are allowed to make fun of you and your dumb ways and all the other crap I see far too much in marriages these days.
I don't know when or how men got reprogrammed to think they don't matter in a relationship, but it's happened, and as a result the institution of marriage in this country is a mess. It's become a mexican standoff of competing demands that neither will fulfill for the other until they get what they want first. It becomes not a symbiotic relationship, but a contest to see who wins the day. If she got him to clean and work and pay bills and shield her from her mother or his and managed to do it all before her favorite show is on or she sees her favorite book on the table, then maybe he can beg enough to guilt her into doing something. He gets frustrated and makes it a sporting competition, complete with the fanatical stupidity of a typical sporting fan. The relationship degrades and the two take tougher stances. And it repeats over and over until something bad happens.
The Five Love Languages is probably the best book I've ever seen on this subject. You are both required to do what the other needs - but using those needs as weapons will create problems each and every time, without fail. I submit that American women have no idea what marriage truly is or what is expected of them - yes, them. From the start of it, it's the guy wooing, buying stuff, and trying to get her to accept him, the marraige ceremony itself is for the women, and the selfish demands just keep going from there. It's not a contest. It's a relationship. If they can't handle it, they should rid themselves of the fairytale land of white dresses and unicorns that they think they live in and come back down to earth. We'll still be here. Ready to love them and serve them every way we can. The only thing any of us ever ask is for the same devotion. It's clearly more than most of them can or want to handle.
And even this post probably comes off as more angry that it really is. I would do anything for my wife. And I understand that while I'm wired to go every day and want to go every day, sometimes she just isn't able for a variety of reasons. There's a difference between a willing desire to anything for your mate but just not being able to once and awhile, and actually taking the purposeful step of withholding love and intamacy because the lawn isn't mowed. If your wife isn't happy, make her happy. It's your job. But contrary to what we see all the time in society and even in this thread - she has a job to do too. It's just as important, and frankly, the laundry can wait if it's that tiring. Maybe they should stop buying so much clothes and shoes and focus more on the relationship they chose to be in and made an oath to take an active role in.
8 months is a crime. Heck, 8 days is barring injury or illness. And they want to know why 'men are pigs.' Pigs don't do anything for other pigs, they fight over food space and water. Husbands work, love, provide and protect. Sorry if some of us seem to think there should be some reciprocal love as was promised for the one thing that we aren't allowed to do with someone else.
But beyond that I have to continue to disagree with the posters that always go right to the advice of the husband having to change everything in these types of situations. Sex is a normal act of humanity and it's a rather important and fundamental part of the marriage relationship. In all other aspects of the relationship, another avenue to satisfaction or enjoyment can be realized except in this one area. If your wife doesn't cook or clean, you can eat out or get a maid or some variants. If your wife doesn't enjoy the same things you do you do them with your friends. And on and on and on. But when it comes to sex and the very real physical and emotional need for it in men, once we're married we have no choice and no outlet - it's the wife or nothing - her rules. "No, I don't want to and hell no you can't find someone else because that isn't fair to me." Please.
Assuming for the purposes of this discussion, as usual, that the husband is providing, caring, loving and doing the things he needs to do, sex is neither a weapon nor a chore. It is the wife that must change. Far too many American women seem to think that controlling sex is their purpose on this planet. The second any wife, for any reasons, uses sex as a weapon or a reward or treats it like a chore, a very important part of the marriage goes on life support. The laundry getting done does not equal sex. Cleaning the house is not more important than sex. Raising the children is not more important than sex. Nothing is, at the end of the day. If you can't share the physical and emotional aspects of a relationship with your wife because she is 'too tired' from the mundane life she lives it's her problem.
What exactly is there to be bored over? Your husband works every day. Many of us in jobs that, in the end, we don't get the pleasure out of we want to or once did. But we do it because it's a responsiblity that most of us take very seriously. The chivalry and romance of sweeping the wife off her feet in dating doesn't end in marriage, but it does change. Instead of flowers and gifts that frankly are a waste and too expensive in reality, you get a mortgage paid, food on the table and someone who will always be there for you. That's more important any day of the week.
Women in the country have been sold a really fraudulent bill of goods on relationships with men. Our needs are nothing more than chores to get done if and when the others get done. We are punchlines and usually too stupid to be taken out of the house like some pet. Our media entertainment has turned the father and husband in to the laugh track. And throughout it all we're told that we need to work harder, we need to give more, we need to basically kill ourselves early (which men still do) to make them happy at every turn and maybe, if we're good boys, we may get some action.
Sorry, that isn't what marriage is. If a wife treats it like that, it's their fault. In the spiritual sense, I have to love my wife like Christ loved His church - sacrifically putting her above all things. The caveat, such as it is, is that she needs to love me in the reciprocal submissive manner of meeting my needs as well. Not the submission of bondage (unless that's your thing) but the submission of her needs taking second place. As a result both work together to meet each other's needs above all. In the secular relationship, honor, cherish, sickness and health, and all the rest of the promises that are made are for both sides, not just one. The oath doesn't say keep buying her things, work your ### off, do everything she says, and maybe, just maybe, if the dishes are clean at night and she hasn't had a tough day maybe you can beg for some physical and emotional satisfaction - oh, and of course you can do nothing right, her friends are allowed to make fun of you and your dumb ways and all the other crap I see far too much in marriages these days.
I don't know when or how men got reprogrammed to think they don't matter in a relationship, but it's happened, and as a result the institution of marriage in this country is a mess. It's become a mexican standoff of competing demands that neither will fulfill for the other until they get what they want first. It becomes not a symbiotic relationship, but a contest to see who wins the day. If she got him to clean and work and pay bills and shield her from her mother or his and managed to do it all before her favorite show is on or she sees her favorite book on the table, then maybe he can beg enough to guilt her into doing something. He gets frustrated and makes it a sporting competition, complete with the fanatical stupidity of a typical sporting fan. The relationship degrades and the two take tougher stances. And it repeats over and over until something bad happens.
The Five Love Languages is probably the best book I've ever seen on this subject. You are both required to do what the other needs - but using those needs as weapons will create problems each and every time, without fail. I submit that American women have no idea what marriage truly is or what is expected of them - yes, them. From the start of it, it's the guy wooing, buying stuff, and trying to get her to accept him, the marraige ceremony itself is for the women, and the selfish demands just keep going from there. It's not a contest. It's a relationship. If they can't handle it, they should rid themselves of the fairytale land of white dresses and unicorns that they think they live in and come back down to earth. We'll still be here. Ready to love them and serve them every way we can. The only thing any of us ever ask is for the same devotion. It's clearly more than most of them can or want to handle.
And even this post probably comes off as more angry that it really is. I would do anything for my wife. And I understand that while I'm wired to go every day and want to go every day, sometimes she just isn't able for a variety of reasons. There's a difference between a willing desire to anything for your mate but just not being able to once and awhile, and actually taking the purposeful step of withholding love and intamacy because the lawn isn't mowed. If your wife isn't happy, make her happy. It's your job. But contrary to what we see all the time in society and even in this thread - she has a job to do too. It's just as important, and frankly, the laundry can wait if it's that tiring. Maybe they should stop buying so much clothes and shoes and focus more on the relationship they chose to be in and made an oath to take an active role in.
8 months is a crime. Heck, 8 days is barring injury or illness. And they want to know why 'men are pigs.' Pigs don't do anything for other pigs, they fight over food space and water. Husbands work, love, provide and protect. Sorry if some of us seem to think there should be some reciprocal love as was promised for the one thing that we aren't allowed to do with someone else.
mr. furley
Footballguy
wow
lets post this over at the purse forum and see what kinda response you get
lets post this over at the purse forum and see what kinda response you get
Shtaym Syek
Footballguy
wow
Worm
slimy ninja
You really do seem like an exemplary candidate to dispense advice about sex & marriage. Any other tidbits?
gianmarco
Footballguy
Can that be pinned? Just the post. All by itself.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
Women run completely on emotion and unrealistic about life, so when it becomes slightly difficult instead of doing anything about she will make it a focal point to bring their spouse down with them. There are many women who don't want to work, have kids, have the nice house, car and great husband and father to their children and yet...still not good enough. Don't enable her and while you are willing to support her you also need to push her to get her #### together. If she's honestly depressed the ONLY thing you can do is get her tested immediately. If she's honestly depressed then NOTHING you do will make her clinical depression go away. Most likely though she's just unhappy about something (or many things) in her life and instead of really making it better is selfish and wants to self wallow and bring you down with her. Don't be a part of that.
If your wife woke up one day to see you laying on your couch and you inform her you quit your job because you are depressed and decide going forward you aren't going to go work (and she better get cracking on getting a job to support you) and will just watch TV on your couch, how would you think she would take that bit of news? Pretty sure she would tell you to get a job or hit the bricks. Heck any guy who would post in this thread asking if you are in the right I am sure most would say you are wrong because you are married and need to take care of your wife and kids. This shouldn't be any different when it's flipped. There are ways women take care of their husbands, from love and support to sex. There are ways that a man takes care of his wife from protection to financial to listening to her. If a man quits his job and doesn't get a new one or doesn't protect her or decides to no longer care to listen to her he's at fault. This is no different if the wife stops caring for her husband.
When you get married you can't treat it as "I'll do whatever I want and tough if my spouse doesn't like it". From not being a good parent to quitting your job and not working again or to simply lay around your bed because you are depressed (highly doubt it) or deciding to withhold sex.
That said I learned the hard way in that it does take two to make a marriage work and even if you are doing everything right doesn't guarantee that she'll do the same. Don't hit your head against a brick wall because one day you'll realize that no matter what you did, it didn't really matter. I think good husbands naturally want to fix things that aren't fixable from their end, it's up to her but she needs to make a choice and one of them isn't what she's doing right now.
If your wife woke up one day to see you laying on your couch and you inform her you quit your job because you are depressed and decide going forward you aren't going to go work (and she better get cracking on getting a job to support you) and will just watch TV on your couch, how would you think she would take that bit of news? Pretty sure she would tell you to get a job or hit the bricks. Heck any guy who would post in this thread asking if you are in the right I am sure most would say you are wrong because you are married and need to take care of your wife and kids. This shouldn't be any different when it's flipped. There are ways women take care of their husbands, from love and support to sex. There are ways that a man takes care of his wife from protection to financial to listening to her. If a man quits his job and doesn't get a new one or doesn't protect her or decides to no longer care to listen to her he's at fault. This is no different if the wife stops caring for her husband.
When you get married you can't treat it as "I'll do whatever I want and tough if my spouse doesn't like it". From not being a good parent to quitting your job and not working again or to simply lay around your bed because you are depressed (highly doubt it) or deciding to withhold sex.
That said I learned the hard way in that it does take two to make a marriage work and even if you are doing everything right doesn't guarantee that she'll do the same. Don't hit your head against a brick wall because one day you'll realize that no matter what you did, it didn't really matter. I think good husbands naturally want to fix things that aren't fixable from their end, it's up to her but she needs to make a choice and one of them isn't what she's doing right now.
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Socrates11
Footballguy
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Outstanding.
I just shared Y23Fan's post with my wife. She told me to shut the eff up and take the trash out and if i clean out the garden she'll let me borrow the Sears catalog for 3 minutes to fap to.
Baby steps..ill take it.
I just shared Y23Fan's post with my wife. She told me to shut the eff up and take the trash out and if i clean out the garden she'll let me borrow the Sears catalog for 3 minutes to fap to.
Baby steps..ill take it.
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Please keep us updated on your counseling sessions and how everything works out. Good luck.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Bravo to that post. Not many men could disagree with any of that. Well thought out, logical, and reasonable. Sadly, most women don't have logic and reason as pertinent character traits.
Bogart
Footballguy
Thanks, I will.We had a very long conversation just the two of us last night. Probably the deepest conversation we have had in years. She came out and said that she just doesn't need sex and it's not important to her. She made some cryptic comments about things in her past and then clammed up and would not elaborate. Inside I got really upset because she felt like she could not share these issues with me, I have been paying for the sins of others, etc, etc. But on the outside I was calm and supporting, knowing that we are heading to the counseling sessions and that with a professional helping, we can do a better job of digging up and hopefully solving the past for her.Please keep us updated on your counseling sessions and how everything works out. Good luck.
Nate
Footballguy
Awesome post.Of course, I live in 2011, and my girl is a human being and stuff, so I won't be applying any of it. But still a fun read.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I don't see how this is relevent or somehow changes the scenario at all (which assumes you married a human being of course, I can't speak for those of you who go a different route.)
Chaka
Footballguy
I think that statement, if interpreted correctly, was actually one the actual good bits of your post.
mr. furley
Footballguy
i took it as "both parties need to be responsible for meeting the needs of the other.. it's not a one-way street".
Clifford
Footballguy
Hate to say this, but there's no way counseling will help with this:
She came out and said that she just doesn't need sex and it's not important to her
She is flat out saying that she is only concerned with her own happiness. The worst part is she's not even saying she doesn't like sex. She's ambivalent, yet she knows it's extremely important to you, and just doesn't give a rats ### about making you happy.
I hate to sounds like an ###, but meet the 21st Century American woman, raised on a consistent culture of delving inwardly into her own feelings and getting in touch with herself, her needs, and demanding that everyone else in the world respect them. Honestly, just switch the genders, and change the subject since a man would never say that sex isn't important to him. Change it to listening.
"So I talked to my husband about how deeply I needed him to listen to my feelings, and he just came out and said that he just doesn't need to listen to my feelings and it's not important to him."
Could you even imagine how quickly this comment would be excoriated by both men and women alike? Yet a woman can say the exact same thing, and she's just being in touch with her feelings.
Sorry, but
No one should put up with this level of selfishness, lack of empathy and love. Kick her to the curb and find someone capable of caring about someone other than herself.
ETA: Nothing you can do can ever help her to get over her past. Take it from someone who tried for years. After a while I just told my wife I was sorry her dad f'ed her up and every boyfriend she had prior to me was worthless, but I'm not those people and she should consider herself damn lucky to be with someone who's not.
She came out and said that she just doesn't need sex and it's not important to her
She is flat out saying that she is only concerned with her own happiness. The worst part is she's not even saying she doesn't like sex. She's ambivalent, yet she knows it's extremely important to you, and just doesn't give a rats ### about making you happy.
I hate to sounds like an ###, but meet the 21st Century American woman, raised on a consistent culture of delving inwardly into her own feelings and getting in touch with herself, her needs, and demanding that everyone else in the world respect them. Honestly, just switch the genders, and change the subject since a man would never say that sex isn't important to him. Change it to listening.
"So I talked to my husband about how deeply I needed him to listen to my feelings, and he just came out and said that he just doesn't need to listen to my feelings and it's not important to him."
Could you even imagine how quickly this comment would be excoriated by both men and women alike? Yet a woman can say the exact same thing, and she's just being in touch with her feelings.
Sorry, but
No one should put up with this level of selfishness, lack of empathy and love. Kick her to the curb and find someone capable of caring about someone other than herself.ETA: Nothing you can do can ever help her to get over her past. Take it from someone who tried for years. After a while I just told my wife I was sorry her dad f'ed her up and every boyfriend she had prior to me was worthless, but I'm not those people and she should consider herself damn lucky to be with someone who's not.
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Patrick Bateman
Footballguy
Agreed. It would tack on at least six more months for me.
geoff8695
Footballguy
Amen to that, great effin' post!Screw Dr. Phil, I'm subscribing to Dr. Y23's marriage & relationship counseling.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Allow me to say the exact opposite of what the counselor will say. So what?When you got married you did not promise to love and honor and cherish her and then have her do the same with the caveat that when it comes to your needs if they aren't important to her than she really doesn't need to do anything? That's a unilateral contract if I've ever seen one. Look at it this way:Thanks, I will.We had a very long conversation just the two of us last night. Probably the deepest conversation we have had in years. She came out and said that she just doesn't need sex and it's not important to her.Please keep us updated on your counseling sessions and how everything works out. Good luck.
1. You have a religious marriage. A spiritual bond - whatever. Under that scenario if you are living your life as you should be, a marriage is a sacrifical agreement. Your needs are secondary to hers and her needs are secondary to yours. There are defined roles of a husband and wife that even with society's tug shouldn't alter that much. At its core, it's a symbiotic relationship. If both parties don't work together in the manner they are intended and required to do, the relationship suffers and neither is able to do their job. Barring physical pain or illness there is simply no excuse at all for a wife to try to claim that sex isn't important, she doesn't need it and therefore you suffer with no alternative because having sex outside of marriage is wrong and you have made a promise to not do that.
2. You have a secular marriage. For all intents and purposes it's a contractual obligation. In order for a contract to be enforcable and binding you need several things: offer and acceptance, mutual assent, and sufficient consideration. When you break down what the law has done to marriage, this is what it is when you take out the spiritual religious aspects.
So, you have an offer - you asked her to marry you. Marriage is a relationship whereby you pledge to mutual honor, love and cherish each other. In making that offer you are offering a contract to be formed. In return for her acceptance of the contract, you are offering to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part. There are several aspects to the offer that need be accepted. To have and to hold means this is the only relationship upone which you will act in this manner. In our terms here, you pledge to no longer have intimate relations with another woman. You pledge to do that in every circumstance that arises from the day you take the oath until you die.
In accepting the offer, she likewise pledges the same thing. Unless she told you when putting the ring on that by doing so you were going to only have sex 3 times a year and you bought in anyway, then it's on her at this point.
Then comes the mutual assent. Again, unless she tried to alter the terms of the agreement, the black letter stuff is the agreement. She will meet your needs just as you will meet her needs. There is no caveat that says in the future if she finds one of your needs unimportant to her she can just ignore them while enforcing the rest of the contract. It's all or it should be nothing.
So you offered, she accepted and you both mutually assented to the terms, acted on them and in doing so took a good faith step towards completing them. Now she wants to alter the agreement without negotiation or reimbursement for damages. You are still expected to carry out each and every term of the agreement, with every single little modification she has made over the years, while she is specifically refusing to do so because the terms she has to comply with are just not that important to her. That is a breach of contract giving rise to voiding the transaction, reimbursements and damages, whether actual, compensatory or anticipatory.
In the end, again, it's on her.
We need to knock this nonsense off in marriage. Sex is not a game, it is not a chore and it is not a doggy treat if your a good boy to be used more like a weapon that anything close to a wilfull gift. I had a discussion once with a female client who was filing divorce. The basic reason why she was filing was that she complained that her husband didn't love her anymore. She basically told me that they stopped having sex. It's not my job to inspect that type of reason in preparing a complaint but the talk we have is always a few hours long so I end up getting the story anyway. It turns out that she just lost interest - too much to do around the house, kids, he worked long hours and didn't make her feel special, she deserved nice vacations, yada yada. What got her furious in the end was that she found his porn collection and basically considered it cheating, even though she wasn't very willing to have sex anyway. So I asked her a question because I was curious - I asked her if she knew why he was watching porn. He's a pig was the basic answer. I said, maybe, but if you notice any of those films or pictures, the woman is willingly doing it (granted there are specific types where that isn't the case but the general rule of thumb is, in the end, there is a woman willing to do this). My point to her was, for many of us (at least me and basically every man I've ever talked to about this topic) the desire and the turn on - the basic need beyond the physical pleasure - is a woman who wants to do it.
We hear it all the time in various talks on the topic - I wish she would initiate more is the usual way it is handled. Why? Well, first, we hate begging. We aren't dogs and the act of begging gets tiresome and creates emotions that don't help in a marriage. But the fact is that we married the woman for a reason. We want her, and it feels damn good when we know she wants us. The 'clinical' variant of that is in the Five Love Languages - most men fall into the category of wanting physical intimacy as a sign of love. But the deeper understanding of that is that they don't just want the physical act of sex itself. A warm kiss or touch out of the blue. A passing carress on the stairs while you are running to your appointments. The actual feeling that, wow, there is a woman that wants me. Pornography falsifies that feeling and gives it in spades. Why would it be a turn on to see another man getting satisfied by a woman? I mean, really, on that level pornography makes no sense. But men don't enjoy it for that reason, nor do many probably even consider it. They see a willing woman. That is the turn on - add your personal fetish thereafter.
I know that one of the wives that leads a bible study in our church for wives has touched upon that very subject. I've talked to her about it. When the girls start complaining about their husbands, the first thing she asks them is if they are meeting their husbands needs. After you get past the "he's a pig, I'm too tired, there's no time, why do they want it so much," things she hears back, she basically uses the porn example to prove her point - your men want you and just as much if not moreso, they want you to want them. I know she's saved a marriage or two (I wasn't so lucky with my client. They got divorced anyway).
But none of this is fair game when we talk about this topic. We are pigs, we want sex too much, she isn't a sex slave, there are chorse to do, you aren't that important. Bull****. Ask any man what he would prefer - his wife to have to come to bed basically kicking and screaming, or walking up behind him wearing one of his collared shirts and nothing else and taking his hand to the bedroom? Guess which one wins 99.99% of the time?
So, in a marriage where she uses it as a weapon, you've already been hit. Not only is it a weapon but there is no willingness at all. There is no desire to meet your needs. There is no connection as to what makes you tick, but god help you if you don't do everything you can to make her tick no matter what. You beg, she feels guilty, the cycle repeats. It's not an act of love at that point, its a physical contest. It then becomes a mental war and an unspoken degredation in the relationship that can be solved with anywhere from 5-50 minutes of physical exercise that there isn't a single person this country can't use.
So, if you are religious, she failing her God-given responsibility to you. If you're secular, she's breached the contract or is in anticipatory breach and you have suffered damages that are clearly ascertainable. Either way, it's on her. If you are loving your wife, providing for her as best you can to meet actual needs and not selfish expensive wants that are unimportant, being faithful, caring for your family and killing yourself early all to please her, it's her problem, not yours.
In my house, we had almost a little issue last night. It had been about 4 days. I wasn't home for one of them and she was getting over a cold from the previous week so, that's fine. I'm not a camel but I'm not a rabbit either. She has off of work this week and is home all day. So she cleaned. All day. By the time I got home, my son and his friends had done a good job of destroying his room and driving her nuts. So she initially said, basically, "Really? You know what I went through today. I need a break." My response was, basically, well, I worked all day, paid the mortgage, bought the food, got the AC fixed, paid for your car, dealt with several crazy clients, 2 judges that hate me and an adversary who should be disbarred, all while getting work done on my 150 files and, oh yeah, covering my bosses files while he is on vacation. I missed lunch, and feel like I've been run over by a bus. Oh, and look, I made dinner when I got home - not because I had too, but because I wanted too. " She realized I was right. And frankly did fine for herself.
I get woman are stressed. They have pressures just like we do. Being a mom is the most difficult job in the world. Working at the same time is even more difficult. I'm not sitting on a throne getting cooled off with grape leaves every day either. Either the most important thing in your marriage is your spouse's happiness or it isn't. If you can't make each other happy, won't meet each other's needs and feel like the other person's requests are really just unimportant, then what exactly is the marriage? It sounds more like some kind of warped slavery.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
you're right, it's not relevant or changes the scenario at all
Clifford
Footballguy
could you boil this down to a sig? Bravo my man. I will make my wife read this. And I might pick up that book you mentioned.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
I'm willing to bet that when they dated and at least for the first part of their marriage she had ZERO issues with sex. What utter lame BS she's giving him. If she's going to lie at least she should come up with something original.Hate to say this, but there's no way counseling will help with this:
She came out and said that she just doesn't need sex and it's not important to her
She is flat out saying that she is only concerned with her own happiness. The worst part is she's not even saying she doesn't like sex. She's ambivalent, yet she knows it's extremely important to you, and just doesn't give a rats ### about making you happy.
I hate to sounds like an ###, but meet the 21st Century American woman, raised on a consistent culture of delving inwardly into her own feelings and getting in touch with herself, her needs, and demanding that everyone else in the world respect them. Honestly, just switch the genders, and change the subject since a man would never say that sex isn't important to him. Change it to listening.
"So I talked to my husband about how deeply I needed him to listen to my feelings, and he just came out and said that he just doesn't need to listen to my feelings and it's not important to him."
Could you even imagine how quickly this comment would be excoriated by both men and women alike? Yet a woman can say the exact same thing, and she's just being in touch with her feelings.
Sorry, but
ETA: Nothing you can do can ever help her to get over her past. Take it from someone who tried for years. After a while I just told my wife I was sorry her dad f'ed her up and every boyfriend she had prior to me was worthless, but I'm not those people and she should consider herself damn lucky to be with someone who's not.
Nate
Footballguy
Yeah I just mean my girl doesn't need me to provide her ####. She's more educated than I am and makes almost the same money. She doesn't need me to protect her from... whatever you think women need protection from. So I've never thought that she "owed" me sex for anything. We split bills when we're both making good money, we split cooking/cleaning duties, and we basically just work well together to handle our various responsibilities.I don't put our sex life in the same category of "obligations we share" with bills and dusting. I don't want her to open up her legs once a week "as part of our deal". Sex should be considerably more fun than that. I'd rather get dragged into the shower in the morning or get a text saying she needs me home at lunch today. And that doesn't come free. You have to actually be somebody your wife wants. And that takes a bit of thought and effort and listening. None of which you should be afraid of.
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I agree. Sounds like you have a good partner.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
Wonder how far the % of marriages would drop if the soon to be wife said "Look, after we get married and have the number of kids that I want and the house, etc... I am going to let you know that we will no longer have sex or if we have sex it'll be a a few times a year. I'll give you the standard "I have a headache, not enough sleep, just not that into sex" bit to you but more importantly I think it's very important that before two people get married to be completely honest with one another so I wanted to just give you the heads up now. You know we as women are all about communication and being honest and sharing our feelings whereas we generally view men as being the complete opposite so it's only natural and logical that I forewarn you now that the whole sex thing isn't going to happen once we get married."
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Do whatever you have to do to make your wife happy. She should do the same. Not to win a contest or just do away with guilt, but because you want to make each other happy and are willing to sacrifice for each other.As an aside, ever see Annie Hall? Marriage counselor asks the wife, 'How often do you have sex?" Answer, "Almost always. Like 3 times a week." Next session, counselor asks husband, "How often do you have sex?" Answer, "Hardly ever. Like 3 times a week."
Welcome to American marriage. She is worked too hard and he is a pig. Sex is a chore weapon or worse. We spend too much time and money on talking to other people and then have them tell us nothing.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
True dat.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Might not have worked for you but IMHO this is an extreme generalization. Of course counseling is not a cure all if one spouse is selfish to the core and unwilling to consider/meet needs of the other spouse. That is an individual trait and may not reparable. However, I'd rather get that realization over the course of several marital counseling sessions than use subtle tactics hoping to change that sort of individual over a period of wasted years. I do think going to counseling (alone or together) sends an unmistakable message that this is major marital issue and not some day-to-day gripe that married partners grin and bear. The OP's spouse is obviously putting it in the latter category, when in fact it could be a marriage deal breaker. It could serve as a wake up call.
Socrates11
Footballguy
Not to mention that if they were to divorce, I'd bet good money she would suddenly be interested in sex again to find another man. Funny how wives expect you to not care if they get a little chubby or aren't in the mood anymore, but walk out the door and watch her waddle to the gym and become a nympho. Womens are nuts.I'm willing to bet that when they dated and at least for the first part of their marriage she had ZERO issues with sex. What utter lame BS she's giving him. If she's going to lie at least she should come up with something original.Hate to say this, but there's no way counseling will help with this:
She came out and said that she just doesn't need sex and it's not important to her
She is flat out saying that she is only concerned with her own happiness. The worst part is she's not even saying she doesn't like sex. She's ambivalent, yet she knows it's extremely important to you, and just doesn't give a rats ### about making you happy.
I hate to sounds like an ###, but meet the 21st Century American woman, raised on a consistent culture of delving inwardly into her own feelings and getting in touch with herself, her needs, and demanding that everyone else in the world respect them. Honestly, just switch the genders, and change the subject since a man would never say that sex isn't important to him. Change it to listening.
"So I talked to my husband about how deeply I needed him to listen to my feelings, and he just came out and said that he just doesn't need to listen to my feelings and it's not important to him."
Could you even imagine how quickly this comment would be excoriated by both men and women alike? Yet a woman can say the exact same thing, and she's just being in touch with her feelings.
Sorry, but
ETA: Nothing you can do can ever help her to get over her past. Take it from someone who tried for years. After a while I just told my wife I was sorry her dad f'ed her up and every boyfriend she had prior to me was worthless, but I'm not those people and she should consider herself damn lucky to be with someone who's not.
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