McGarnicle
Footballguy
Thanks a lot you ####### worthless piece of ####.
But in redraft?hold? hell yes - high reward, low risk .... Colston old, Cooks not all that.... Snead could be a bonafide #1 A.Brown type player next season
or nothing
but it costs little to hold and find out
Should have bet on #6, Whirlwind.Hell yes, you keep Little Willie Snead like he's Santa's Little Helper.
i think his value should remain pretty constant. at some point, however, Fleener will emerge from his slumber and start to become productive. it's just a matter of time and when that happens it will cut into someone's value.Snead appears to be a key cog in a high volume passing offense that will regularly be in shootouts. And NO is using 3 WR sets enough where Thomas isn't a huge threat to Snead's production.
These "free" dynasty pickups can round out a team nicely
I don't know why Fleener will emerge.i think his value should remain pretty constant. at some point, however, Fleener will emerge from his slumber and start to become productive. it's just a matter of time and when that happens it will cut into someone's value.
To be fair, at least one of the 5 targets for Fleener was a deep pass.I don't know why Fleener will emerge.
All of the evidence from training camp through week 1 has been negative so if you expect his production to change, you expect the everything that has happened with Fleener thus far to change. Sounds much like the talk of Spiller eventually emerging from his slumber.
For Snead I'm considering sending offers out in dynasty leagues where I would give "high potential" but not producing young players, for Snead and hope the owner thinks he is selling high when, although I don't think Snead will get 170 each week, I think Snead can continue to put up impressive numbers in the WR1/2 range
He has reportedly not be "getting" the playbook and the offense all pre-season. His performance week 1 seems to verify that.To be fair, at least one of the 5 targets for Fleener was a deep pass.
lets say Fleener gets the same 5 targets in week 2, and instead of being 1/5, he's 4/5. That could mean 80+ yds and a TD.
He was targeted quite a bit in the preseason as well. one could argue that week 1 was the anomaly on Fleener's production.
And as he develops rapport with Brees and gets the playbook more and more I think it is reasonable to expect improvement. Brees / Saints have a long history of productivity from the TE spot. It's why so many were so high on Fleener.
Mayne im off, but to me it seems much more likely for Fleener to develop into a weapon than not.
Thomas didn't exactly fill up the stat sheet either.He has reportedly not be "getting" the playbook and the offense all pre-season. His performance week 1 seems to verify that.
I think you are looking at past TE performance and predicting future success when it can be that role is now being filled by Thomas. Even if Fleener improves, and how can he not, he has a long way to go to make his fantasy, or real NFL, relevant.
Please expound on their "dramatically different roles".Thomas didn't exactly fill up the stat sheet either.
i see them as having the dramatically different roles.
If you don't understand the different roles that a TE and a WR have, I don't have time to explain it to you.Please expound on their "dramatically different roles".
You think Jimmy Graham was especially bright for some reason? Fleener just needs time. Brees, moreso than any other QB, uses the TE position. It's an essential part of the offense and has been for *years*. it's not suddenly going to disappear.He has reportedly not be "getting" the playbook and the offense all pre-season. His performance week 1 seems to verify that.
I think you are looking at past TE performance and predicting future success when it can be that role is now being filled by Thomas. Even if Fleener improves, and how can he not, he has a long way to go to make his fantasy, or real NFL, relevant.
Pretty much my take too. It might take a week or 2, but in addition to the "not getting the playbook" comments, folks seem to disregard the other thing said in that interview, which was "he's had a lot of great moments out there". Why do people focus so hard on the negative and utterly ignore the positive?You think Jimmy Graham was especially bright for some reason? Fleener just needs time. Brees, moreso than any other QB, uses the TE position. It's an essential part of the offense and has been for *years*. it's not suddenly going to disappear.
No need to be brusque and dismissive. It's a genuine question.If you don't understand the different roles that a TE and a WR have, I don't have time to explain it to you.
I will add that one is a rookie who's likely to play on fewer snaps, and isn't as involved in the short passing game.
then there's some stuff about blocking, but yeah - football 101 is a different topic title.
I have no idea how bright Jimmy Graham is and I'm not sure it's about how smart he is.I
You think Jimmy Graham was especially bright for some reason? Fleener just needs time. Brees, moreso than any other QB, uses the TE position. It's an essential part of the offense and has been for *years*. it's not suddenly going to disappear.
Thomas had six target and six receptions and is apparently the apple of Payton's eye. I don't think either of those things will be lost of Brees. The news on Thomas, through camp and through week 1, has been all positive. The opposite trend from Fleener who has been in this offense for the same amount of time Thomas has.Thomas didn't exactly fill up the stat sheet either.
i see them as having the dramatically different roles.
I was being neither - no need to read into my statements more than face value.No need to be brusque and dismissive. It's a genuine question.
In today's NFL, with move TEs and larger WRs the differentiation between the roles of particular positions become a bit more gray. Did Jimmy Graham perform more like a WR or a TE? If you ask Jimmy, I know what he would say.
Are you open to the possibility that:I was being neither - no need to read into my statements more than face value.
You asked a very broad question - too broad. Now that you've narrowed, I'll answer more specifically: Jimmy Graham was more of a Move TE, which is exactly what they brought in Fleener to be. Just like it's what they used Watson as.
As I'd mentioned previously, one of the 5 targets for Fleener was a deep pass. That would seems to be a good indicator of how they intend to utilize him. Just because he was 1/5 this week doesn't mean he won't be 4/5 next week. In fact, next week against the Giants should be telling since NYG is terrible against TEs but with Landon Collins improving the secondary, likely improved against WRs.
If there were ever a week for Fleener to be showcased as the move TE/receiver, it will be this weekend coming up.
Regardless, the Saints were very clear on what they signed Fleener to be, and that's a receiver. Naturally, he will block on rushing downs. should the saints ever remember that they have Ingram at 4.8 ypc, but he's primarily a receiver in that offense.
That is factually incorrect.Fleener may well need more time but to assume that he will start doing well, be an integral piece of this offense, and put up respectable numbers, although completely feasible, would be a reversal of trend of every piece of news and information, from camp through week 1, that we have so far.
FYI, I have zero skin in this game as I'm neither a Saints fan nor own Snead or Fleener in any league.
Interesting. I could be wrong.That is factually incorrect.
The Saints targeted him in the preseason as a move TE. Reports were not overtly negative - they were "mixed", per the coaches themselves. Some great moments, some rough moments. It was speculation by the talking heads at Rotoworld and ESPN that suggested Fleener wasn't getting the playbook.
You're assuming an awful lot here and calling it fact - it's 1 week of the season. Fleener was targeted deep. Your statement is in error - if Fleener is targeted 5 times and goes 4/5 for 75 yards and a TD this Sunday, it would actually be perfectly in line with every piece of news and information, from camp through week 1, that we have so far.
I'm open to any possible outcome.Are you open to the possibility that:
1. Fleener is not as good as the Saints thought he would be?
2. Michael Thomas is better then they thought a rookie WR would be?
If the above are true, could it be that Thomas is going to get more targets than originally planned and Fleener fewer regardless that they play different receiving positions?
Again, I'm not saying Fleener can't do better, but the fact is, the reports through camp haven't been glowing and he did little with his few targets in week 1 meaning a trend in a good direction for Fleener would be, by definition, a reversal of trend.
It looks like you that is reading into my posts. I'm not predicting anything.I'm open to any possible outcome.
You're the one who's talking like you have the crystal ball in hand.
How many more times are you going to refer to the 1 report out of camp where Fleener said he wasn't comfortable and Peyton said it was a mixed bag about 1 preseason game? That's you're "trend" - nice sample size.
I'm not a Saints fan either. I just read a lot about players who seem fantasy relevant, and any move TE in the NOS offense is fantasy relevant.Interesting. I could be wrong.
I'd love to read the positive pieces and quotes where Fleener was doing well in camp, pre-season or the short season so far because as I remember, and I may have missed some stuff because I'm not a Saints fan and clearly don't follow the team as closely as you, he has been a disappointment so far.
And after the 3rd preseason game, here was the commentary:Quote
Saints coach Sean Payton said Coby Fleener is still a "work in progress."
"I'd say it's an ongoing progression," Payton said. "There's some plays that are real good, and then there's some plays where we've got to be a little bit more detailed and that's something that I know he's got to work on." Despite Fourth-Team Gate last week, Fleener is still clearly the No. 1 tight end in New Orleans, but Payton wants him to both improve as a blocker and clean up some of his routes. Fleener agreed he has work to do, echoing his coach's sentiments by saying his understanding of the new offense is a "work in progress." While there appears to still be some rough edges, Fleener should shine with Drew Brees this season.
And in game #1, he was clearly the TE1 on that offense.Quote
Coby Fleener caught 1-of-4 targets for four yards in the Saints' third preseason game.
Fleener's final stat line looks poor, but he had a 31-yard grab in heavy traffic negated by a holding call at the line of scrimmage, and made another tough catch only to be clotheslined by a Steelers defender, causing a breakup. The Steeler should have been flagged on the play. Fleener was the Saints' clear-cut first-team tight end. Despite some negative camp reports, Fleener remains a candidate for top-five fantasy stats at the position.
Why do you keep projecting that I'm some kind of homer for the Saints? Seems rather ad hominem.As a fan of the team, if you've seen/heard/read something different that has been a positive trend rather then the negative ones I've heard, once again, I'd love to hear it.
I think it was the colors of your Avatar. Looks Saints-y.Why do you keep projecting that I'm some kind of homer for the Saints? Seems rather ad hominem.
I'm a Niner fan FFS.
It is a bit of a tangent off to other parts of the Saints offense, but I thought a (somewhat) interesting conversation and can tie into Snead's production. Sorry for my part in the digression...I came here for Willie Snead info, not to watch a cat fight over Coby Fleener's preseason. Christ.
Sorry - that was a total derailment.I came here for Willie Snead info, not to watch a cat fight over Coby Fleener's preseason. Christ.
No way I take Parker over Snead. As a Snead Dynasty owner if someone offered me Parker straight up for him I'd reject without a second thought. Snead has shown he can produce in the NFL and now he's getting a shot to be the #2 in a Brees led offense. I take that over a #2/#3 in a Tannehill led offense any day.bump - what are you guys thinking of Snead with Cooks gone? I'm not sure what to think of him fantasy-wise. I definitely think Ingram, AP, and Kamara are gonna run the ball a lot (mainly catch for Kamara), but someone has to get targets beside Michael Thomas. In some of my mocks I often have to decide between DeVante Parker, Snead, Diggs or Decker, and often find myself skipping Snead and going with Parker. Thoughts?
As a Parker owner, would you take Snead straight up? I did a start up a week after the Super Bowl; Parker went 4.1, I drafted Snead at 9.4. If I were offered Parker for Snead, I'd take it.No way I take Parker over Snead. As a Snead Dynasty owner if someone offered me Parker straight up for him I'd reject without a second thought. Snead has shown he can produce in the NFL and now he's getting a shot to be the #2 in a Brees led offense. I take that over a #2/#3 in a Tannehill led offense any day.
Nope. I prefer Snead straight up.As a Parker owner, would you take Snead straight up? I did a start up a week after the Super Bowl; Parker went 4.1, I drafted Snead at 9.4. If I were offered Parker for Snead, I'd take it.
As a Parker owner, would you take Snead straight up? I did a start up a week after the Super Bowl; Parker went 4.1, I drafted Snead at 9.4. If I were offered Parker for Snead, I'd take it.
Really hoping he slides to me as a wr3. He's gonna be moneyI guess this is a shameless bump, any objective observations this year?