Winslow force out at end of Cards game (1 Viewer)

[Carter_Can_Fly]

This thread is sole proof why the rule needs to be eliminated.

It would be ridiculous to get rid of the rule. Maybe you should read this thread a little more carefully to fully understand why it would be dumb if they were to get rid of this rule.I think it was clear that it would have been a catch in bounds had he not been forced out. I think the ref just missed the call. Refs miss calls sometimes, you should not change a rule because a ref missed a call or because it is a tougher rule to ref. I think the rule is a very good one but I do think that it should be reviewable in the replay booth to try to fully determine if he would have been forced out or not. I think it is really clear that Winslow would have come down in bounds on that play from watching the replay a number of times and I am sure a paid official could have determined that in the replay booth.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

This thread is sole proof why the rule needs to be eliminated.

The force out rule has been on the books for ages, its does not and should not be eliminated. It should be ENFORCED! It was not enforced in the Arizona/Cleveland game due to the fact that the replay rules state that force-outs are NON-reviewable. The play was reviewed to determine if Winslow had made a catch and to determine if both of his feet came down in-bounds which they did not. The reason his second foot did not come down in bounds was due to two DBs knocking him out of bounds which is the textbook definition of a force out. The refs saw it but they could not overturn the original ruling that both of Winslow's feet did not come down in bounds so they were forced to cheat Cleveland of a touchdown even when they knew he was forced out. Their hands were tied by the replay rules. Kornhiesher's suggestion is straight forward. Prevent the refs from making a bad call. Make all game ending plays that take place inside the two yardline reviewable for blatent infractions. The force out rule should NOT be thrown out. Teams use the sideline in every game. Taking away or making sideline routes easily defensable would change the nature of the game more than the five yard chuck rule which has had a huge impact. Then consider back of endzone catches where DBs can't just use the momentum of the receiver to push him out. And for anyone who is slow on the uptake they are missing the easiest way a defender could leverage this. Not by catching the receiver and carrying him out of bounds. Very simple. Just grab ONE FOOT and hold it up off the ground. The rule states TWO FEET in bounds. Just hold one foot off the ground and push it out of bounds or hold it till another DB comes to knock the reciever out of bounds. One of the hardest passes for a QB to complete are out patterns. The risk of a DB jumping the route, the armstrength recquired by the QB, the footwork and route precision by the reciever, etc. All make for one of the most difficult passes to complete. Removing the force out rule would change the nature of the passing game in more than just out patterns. The other way teams use the force out is in the red zone. Short fields give the defense the advantage in defending the pass because their safeties have less ground to cover. REMOVE the force out rule and it completely changes the dynamic of the NFL. The vast majority of TD passes come inside the red zone. Few TD passes inside the red zone are post routes. Anyone who thinks the easy thing is to remove the force out rule just because it removes judgement of the refs really has no clue of what effect removing the force out would do the nature of the game. To prevent bad calls at the end of the game ANY game deciding play should be entirely reviewable to precent blantant infractions. The refs should have been able to review the force out on the Winslow play but the way the rules are written now, they can't. I put this play in context of one team who has had three last second plays decided by rules, two of which had rulings on the field where the referees were not allowed to review, either the entire play in the case of the FG or worse, PORTIONS of a play as in Winslow's play where they saw the force out but couldn't overturn their original ruling because thier hands were tied by the replay rules which have huge loopholes in them. WARNING. Loopholes which allow unjust rulings are a threat to ALL NFL teams for as long as the loopholes which allow unfair rulings to exist. This loophole has to be fixed in order to prevent unjust rulings which protects ALL NFL teams.

 

[Sheriff66]

Rule is dumb, IMO your only in bounds if you get 2 feet in, if someone knocks you out before you get 2 feet in, you're out of bounds, end of story.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Rule is dumb, IMO your only in bounds if you get 2 feet in, if someone knocks you out before you get 2 feet in, you're out of bounds, end of story.

I don't know if I am being lured in but you really need to read the thread.

 

[Steeler]

I hate this rule, I didn't read the whole thread and, I don't plan to... however that won't deter me from responding

I think it was clear that it would have been a catch in bounds had he not been forced out.

I don't see how you can be so certain he would have come down in bounds.

....you should not change a rule because a ref missed a call or because it is a tougher rule to ref.

I think the rule should be elimimated because it's a judgement call and there is an easy way to remove judgment from the equation (you need 2 feet inbounds no matter what).

 

[Godsbrother]

This thread is sole proof why the rule needs to be eliminated.

The force out rule has been on the books for ages, its does not and should not be eliminated. It should be ENFORCED! It was not enforced in the Arizona/Cleveland game due to the fact that the replay rules state that force-outs are NON-reviewable. The play was reviewed to determine if Winslow had made a catch and to determine if both of his feet came down in-bounds which they did not. The reason his second foot did not come down in bounds was due to two DBs knocking him out of bounds which is the textbook definition of a force out. The refs saw it but they could not overturn the original ruling that both of Winslow's feet did not come down in bounds so they were forced to cheat Cleveland of a touchdown even when they knew he was forced out. Their hands were tied by the replay rules.

So says you. I have looked at the replay a number of times and to me it is not obvious he would have come down inbounds at all. The force out rule is a judgement call and the official used his judgement. In general I do not like the idea of changing judgement calls without indisputable proof.

Kornhiesher's suggestion is straight forward. Prevent the refs from making a bad call. Make all game ending plays that take place inside the two yardline reviewable for blatent infractions.

I am not a big fan of changing the rules during the game. I never understood why the replay rules change in the last 2 minutes. I especially dislike when a team with no timeouts gets a free one because the officials decide to review a close play or there is no time to review a play because the offense is in hurry-up and runs a play before the officials can review it. I would be more in favor of giving each team an extra challenge if they choose to use it and take the officials in the replay booth out of the decision to review altogether.

WARNING. Loopholes which allow unjust rulings are a threat to ALL NFL teams for as long as the loopholes which allow unfair rulings to exist. This loophole has to be fixed in order to prevent unjust rulings which protects ALL NFL teams.

Now you are sounding like a whiner. Sometimes you get a call and sometimes you don't. If you don't get a call then it is your fault for allowing that one bad call to cost you the game. There were plenty of other plays the Browns could have executed to win the game. They didn't and it cost them. It sucks but that is football.

 

[Brother Mouzone]

The problem is, the force out rule is a stupid one. From watching the replay several times, I think it is unlikely that Winslow would have gotten two feet down in bounds, but I have seen plays with the same likelihood of getting two feet down as that called touchdowns (because of a force out), so I was surprised by yesterday's call.

KII is running nearly parallel to the sideline, jumps straight up and is nailed from the side by a defender at the height of his jump. KII had almost no momentum towards the sideline of his own. He got the outside foot (closest to the sideline) in despite being hit and forced out. How can you say that without being acted upon by a player hitting him directly towards the sideline that he wouldn't have gotten both feet in?

 

[Steeler]

Kornhiesher's suggestion is straight forward. Prevent the refs from making a bad call. Make all game ending plays that take place inside the two yardline reviewable for blatent infractions.

This is the dumbest rule suggestion I have ever heard. First, you can't ever prevent the refs from making mistakes... they are human. Second, what's so magical about the two yard line? What's the logic behind allowing someone to get screwed on the three yard line? It's too far away from the endzone This suggestion is absurd.

 

[Kosar]

This thread is sole proof why the rule needs to be eliminated.

It would be ridiculous to get rid of the rule. Maybe you should read this thread a little more carefully to fully understand why it would be dumb if they were to get rid of this rule.I think it was clear that it would have been a catch in bounds had he not been forced out. I think the ref just missed the call. Refs miss calls sometimes, you should not change a rule because a ref missed a call or because it is a tougher rule to ref.

I think the rule is a very good one but I do think that it should be reviewable in the replay booth to try to fully determine if he would have been forced out or not. I think it is really clear that Winslow would have come down in bounds on that play from watching the replay a number of times and I am sure a paid official could have determined that in the replay booth.

I have, and I feel even stronger about my original thought that this rule needs to go.

 

[Sheriff66]

Rule is dumb, IMO your only in bounds if you get 2 feet in, if someone knocks you out before you get 2 feet in, you're out of bounds, end of story.

I don't know if I am being lured in but you really need to read the thread.

What's your point ? Re-read what ?