With 1 word, Patriots’ no-huddle an NFL marvel (1 Viewer)

[Biabreakable]

The Patriots are still leading the league with 473 plays on offense after 6 games this season. The next team are the Chiefs with 434 offensive plays. That to me is what makes it a story, because the Patriots are executing and using this strategy to increase the number of plays they can run in a game. There are only 5 teams right now that have 400+ plays on offense right now after 6 games.

Looking at the top 17 teams in plays run on offense who all have 6 games the average number of plays run by these teams is 393 plays. Compare that to the 473 plays run thus far by the Patriots that means the Patriots have run about 17% more plays than the rest of the teams in the league. That means they are getting about an extra game of offensive plays every 5 or so games. Or to put it another way the top half of the league is averaging 65.5 plays a game compared to the Patriots 79 plays a game.

While this has greatly helped the Patriots TOP it has not really helped them win more. There may be something to the comments about Seattle being able to adjust to the calls in the 2nd half. That seems to be the weakness of a simplified play call as pointed out by others in this thread.

For FF it means that you have been getting 17% more opportunity for each Patriots player you have on offense. I still do not think the Patriots can maintain this pace. That would be something that hasn't been done before. If they do maintain this pace of 78 plays a game they would smash the record with 1,261 plays. By design or otherwise I would expect the plays/game to decline somewhat moving forward.

 

[duaneok66]

good post, but it could have something to do with the design of their offense as well - for example, if you look at the Moss version of the Pats from 2007? They were more explosive and they probably scored using less plays - for obvious reasons.

 

[Biabreakable]

good post, but it could have something to do with the design of their offense as well - for example, if you look at the Moss version of the Pats from 2007? They were more explosive and they probably scored using less plays - for obvious reasons.

Well in 2007 the Patriots had 1,058 plays on offense. So it is not like the current level of production is that much more than what the Patriots have been doing pretty consistently for a long time. In 2007 the Patriots had a 32:31 TOP EOY while right now their TOP is 32:24. In 2007 Welker had 112 catches and Moss had 98. The Patriots did score a more points 36.8pts/game with Moss compared to 31.3pts/game after 6 games this season. In 2011 the Patriots ran 1,082 plays with a TOP of 28:47. So the main difference in the offesne thus far is that they are keeping the ball for almost 3 minutes more a game and the hurry up offense is what is helping them accomplish that. I am dubious about how many more plays that will end up being from last year but at this point they are about 11 plays a game ahead of schedule.The Seahawks only allowed 44% of 3rd down conversions last week when up to that point the Patriots had been converting 57%. I see the Patriots as having the ball for 15:48 in the 1st half but for over 18 minutes in the 2nd half. But that is because they had to start over after an interception, 3rd and outs and so on. Going to watch the 2nd half and see what happened there.

 

[CalBear]

The Patriots are still leading the league with 473 plays on offense after 6 games this season. The next team are the Chiefs with 434 offensive plays. That to me is what makes it a story, because the Patriots are executing and using this strategy to increase the number of plays they can run in a game.

So you think the fact that the Pats offense is a little better than the Chiefs indicates that it's working really well?What else can you tell us about the Chiefs' offense?The best way to run lots of plays is to have mediocre offense that doesn't score quickly, and a bad defense that gets you the ball back. For example, the Ronnie Brown wildcat Dolphins ran 1040 plays despite being the #30 scoring offense. The Pats are getting lots of plays because their yards per play is well below the league average, they're decent at converting third downs, and they're #22 in yardage defense. Not because of some magical no-huddle offense.The Oregon Ducks have a good no-huddle offense, too. They don't run a lot of plays because the guys in white stripes make you stop running plays when you get into the end zone.

For FF it means that you have been getting 17% more opportunity for each Patriots player you have on offense. I still do not think the Patriots can maintain this pace. That would be something that hasn't been done before. If they do maintain this pace of 78 plays a game they would smash the record with 1,261 plays. By design or otherwise I would expect the plays/game to decline somewhat moving forward.

Look, a general rule of measurement is that input metrics suck, and number of plays is an input metric. It's no more useful than number of shot attempts in basketball, or number of swings in baseball, in telling you how effective someone is being.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

good post, but it could have something to do with the design of their offense as well - for example, if you look at the Moss version of the Pats from 2007? They were more explosive and they probably scored using less plays - for obvious reasons.

that might be technically true, as pats are on a record snaps pace, but I'm pretty sure the '07 pats led teh league in long drives, and were probably top 3 in ToP (from memory), so it's not like they just chucked the ball 40 yds to moss every week.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Patriots are still leading the league with 473 plays on offense after 6 games this season. The next team are the Chiefs with 434 offensive plays. That to me is what makes it a story, because the Patriots are executing and using this strategy to increase the number of plays they can run in a game.

So you think the fact that the Pats offense is a little better than the Chiefs indicates that it's working really well?What else can you tell us about the Chiefs' offense?The best way to run lots of plays is to have mediocre offense that doesn't score quickly, and a bad defense that gets you the ball back. For example, the Ronnie Brown wildcat Dolphins ran 1040 plays despite being the #30 scoring offense. The Pats are getting lots of plays because their yards per play is well below the league average, they're decent at converting third downs, and they're #22 in yardage defense. Not because of some magical no-huddle offense.The Oregon Ducks have a good no-huddle offense, too. They don't run a lot of plays because the guys in white stripes make you stop running plays when you get into the end zone.

For FF it means that you have been getting 17% more opportunity for each Patriots player you have on offense. I still do not think the Patriots can maintain this pace. That would be something that hasn't been done before. If they do maintain this pace of 78 plays a game they would smash the record with 1,261 plays. By design or otherwise I would expect the plays/game to decline somewhat moving forward.

Look, a general rule of measurement is that input metrics suck, and number of plays is an input metric. It's no more useful than number of shot attempts in basketball, or number of swings in baseball, in telling you how effective someone is being.

I never said it was. What I am getting at is that they have increased the number of plays run thus far this season compared to last and they have the ball longer. I think this helps the defense more than anything else and people might incorrectly think that the Patriots defense is better than it is because they have not had to face as many offensive plays as they might if the offense were scoring more quickly, allowed more time for the opposing team.If you were going to use this information in projecting the Patriot offense you of course would need to look at things like targets and catch percentage as well as other things, not just the total number of plays. In the end it would mean bumping up their skill players by 1-5 catches from what you previously had, which with the low yardage does not matter very much but does have a slightly larger impact in PPR leagues.I guess before doing that I would like to know how often the Patriots ran hurry up offense last season? I am sure they did so but how often compared to now I am uncertain.Almost through the 1st half of Seattle/Patriots game now. Pete Carrol is just destroying chewing gum right now.ETA- At the start of the year I had the Patriots down for 1,050-1,100 total plays, expecting more run plays than last season. Right now based off this information I could see the plays possibly getting as high as 1,150 if they do keep running this as effectively all season. I have a lot of doubts about that and think it will likely be closer to 1,100 EOY.After watching the full game the Patriots squandered at least 6 points with the interception from goal to go and the intentional grounding to end the half. Brady was called for another intentional grounding on 3rd down that was key as well as the other interception. The Sehawks got lucky to get out of this game with a win but props to their defense who did make some big plays.

 

[Faust]

Calvin Pace: Patriots' quick offense 'borderline illegal'

By Dan Hanzus

Around the League Writer

Tom Brady can move the New England Patriots' offense so quickly, it looks illegal.

Or at least close to illegal, according to New York Jets linebacker Calvin Pace.

"It's borderline illegal because sometimes the guys aren't always set when they snap the ball," Pace said Wednesday, via Rich Cimini of ESPNNewYork.com. "But it's smart. Why not hurry a team up? I wish we would do it. For a defense, it just puts pressure on you."

The Jets have bad memories of the Patriots' up-tempo attack. New York was badly burned by it the last time these teams met, in Week 10 last season. The Jets couldn't get their proper personnel on the field as Brady picked apart a gassed unit. The 37-16 pasting propelled New England to another AFC East title.

"It's very difficult," said linebacker David Harris, who will have the tall task of quickly and efficiently communicating plays to New York's defense. "You'll see defenses not even lined up and they're already running a play. They get a lot of extra yardage because of it. It causes guys to lose their mind. You can see it on film."

The Patriots' offense torched the Denver Broncos in Week 5 with the scheme, picking up a team-record 35 first downs. They had less success in Sunday's loss to the Seattle Seahawks, leading chirpy cornerback Richard Sherman to declare New England ran a "gimmick offense."

Gee, you think Rex Ryan has studied Pete Carroll's game plan this week?

 

[rick6668]

5th superbowl

You forgot one, but I don't blame you as Pats fans have been trying to forget that one for years.

 

[12punch]

5th superbowl

You forgot one, but I don't blame you as Pats fans have been trying to forget that one for years.

Yeah, i thought this was a belichick/brady thread

 

[Crash Davis]

Apparently the Jets think some of the things the Patriots do with the no huddle and substituting then not allowing the defense to substitute is not just 'borderline' illegal, but actually against the rules.

Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10 of the NFL rulebook states, in part, “if a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. . . . The offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e. — too many men on the field). . . . The umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/rex-gang-green-patriot-games-article-1.1188308#ixzz29wSh4i1p

 

[12punch]

Lol jets already workin the refs.

Just play football, jets

 

[Sinrman]

Not going to bother reading all of the replies, so if someone has said it already, great.

But this is not a new concept by any means. Manning was doing it for years...

 

[Crash Davis]

Lol jets already workin the refs.Just play football, jets

The problem is that the refs haven't been calling this right on the Patriots all year apparently. It's gamesmanship for sure, but if it gets the refs to call the game properly I have no problem with it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Manning does it a lot, to get those too many men on the field penalties, but always does it with the same personnel on the field.

I have no idea if the Patriots have been doing their no huddle by making substitutions and then hiking the ball before the defense also has a chance to do so, but if they are, it is the ref's job to enforce the rules. If nothing else, the Jets reminding the officials of that rule is smart, just to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[Faust]

New York Jets: Patriots taking advantage of referees

By Gregg Rosenthal

Around The League editor

It wouldn't be a New York Jets-New England Patriots matchup without some gamesmanship before the opening kick.

Defensive coordinator Mike Pettine complained to Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News this week that the Patriots aren't allowing opposing teams to substitute during their no-huddle offense. He pointed to a specific sequence in the Patriots' game against the Denver Broncos.

"Denver never got a chance to substitute," Pettine said. "It's going to be a major point of contention before (our) game with the officials to make sure that they know the rule is when they substitute we're permitted to substitute.

"If the officials permit (the Patriots) to do that, then the game is going to become chaos. That's the problem. Because we're going to be running guys on. We need to make sure that that is enforced for this game, because we found examples on tape where it has not been. Then it's impossible. Now you can't defend it."

One of the biggest advantages of the no-huddle is that it stops opposing defenses from matching up and changing their look. Defenses need to do everything possible to try to slow New England down, so Pettine might as well try some pregame lobbying with officials.

"That's part of the officials being able to manage the game," Pettine said. "It's going to be critical for us to make sure that we have the ability to do that."

 

[parrot]

5th superbowl

You forgot one, but I don't blame you as Pats fans have been trying to forget that one for years.

Yeah, i thought this was a belichick/brady thread

If you're going outside the B-B era, he actually forgot two. The Pats have been there 7 times.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Decent read here on Chip Kelly.