World's Greatest Draft (2 Viewers)

[Arsenal of Doom]

Again, given my new controlling theory that no one will fall to the next pick so grab him/her now when you can and don't look back, I am taking another "father."

I am going to select a king who created an empire that changed the course of world history. A king who is considered a great by three different empires that lasted long after his reign. Simply put, he's not just considered the father of the German and French monarchies, he is considered the Father of all of Europe. His empire created a new European commonality that continued for centuries, and in some respects continues today. He is Charles the First in France, Germany and among the histories of the Holy Roman Empire.

His coronation birthed the Holy Roman Empire. His reign was constant war expanding that empire. His economic, cultural and theological reforms rebirthed Europe. His was annointed a saint by the Holy Roman Empire. The name given by later generations to Charles, King of the Franks, first sovereign of the Christian Empire of the West is the man I select.

Charlemagne who was the greatest ruler in Europe in the centuries following the fall of the Roman empire. In a long reign that lasted from A.D. 768 to 814, he conquered most of western Europe and converted many of its pagan peoples to Christianity. In 800 he became the Emperor of the Romans. Under Charlemagne's rule, Europe experienced a great revival in learning and the arts, which had declined dramatically after the collapse of Rome. The legends that grew up around Charlemagne focus on his military and political skills and on his moral conduct.

'Let my armies be the rocks and the trees and the birds in the sky'.

I LOVE Charlemagne. The Carolingian empire is massively important for reasons even beyond what you have outlined. If I hadn't taken Constantine earlier, I would have been targeting him in the last couple of rounds. Funny note - that quote that you have from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, there's no historical record of Charlemagne saying anything like it. It's been repeated so much that people probably associate it with him more easily than things he actually did.

 

[timschochet]

Been meaning to post this ever since Van Gogh was selected-

From the marvelous film, Akira Kurosawa's Dreams, the "Van Gogh" sequence:

 

[Hoos First]

I will be at a workshop all day tomorrow and Wednesday, so put me on autoskip. I will check back late afternoon both days so I won't get too far behind. If it gets to me tonight, I will pick, however.

Hope that helps.By the way, great draft so far. I should have got in this.

 

[Thorn]

I will be at a workshop all day tomorrow and Wednesday, so put me on autoskip. I will check back late afternoon both days so I won't get too far behind. If it gets to me tonight, I will pick, however.

Hope that helps.By the way, great draft so far. I should have got in this.

Good catch. PM sent to Doug B.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I find your Red Scare theories interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.Tim, he's claiming Rebel and as a rebel, Lenin was enormously successful. All the rest of your anti-pinko ranting is irrelevant.EDIT: I say this because, as the Leader judge, they would be relevant if he claimed Leader (or Villain).

I think it's an excellent choice for rebel and said so at the time. I was responding to JML's comments. Lenin, had he lived a long life, would be considered equal with or just below Hitler as the greatest monster who ever existed.

And we'll never know.You go on your Historys greatest monster tour and I'll go on my Socialism works tour.The truth probably would have been somewhere in the middle.Lenin was more open in his policies ie allowing for free trade and capitalism after enforcing the NEP, which allowed peasants to farm and sell their extra grain & allowed small business private ownership.Lenin was essentially an idealist who had an opportunity to act on his ideals. His true intent was to remove the class system altogether and strengthen the proletariat.Russia was in a grim state when Lenin took powerRussia had been crippled by decades, if not centuries of Tsarist incompetenceAdd in the First world war, then the Civil War and essentially Russia was dead. Lenin got it on it's feet and moving in the right direction.Stalin took advantage of this start and while making Russia a powerful nation again, but he was the wrong man for the right time.Lenin was the right man.

Lenin wrote that Stalin’s methods were “the onslaught of that really Russian man, the Great Russian chauvinist, in substance a rascal and a tyrant”, adding that “Stalin’s haste and his infatuation with pure administration, together with his spite against the notorious ‘nationalist-socialism’, played a fatal role here.”

 

[Abrantes]

Sorry about being skipped guys. Had a small situation at the new house that needed immediate attention.

4.07 - Muhammad Ali - Athlete

His nickname says it all. THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME!

Muhammad Ali (born Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr., January 17, 1942 in Louisville, Kentucky, U.S.) is a retired American boxer and former three-time World Heavyweight Champion.

As an amateur, Ali won a gold medal at the Olympic in the light heavyweight division gold medal. As a professional, he became the only man to have won the linear heavyweight championship three times.

In 1999, Ali was crowned "Sportsman of the Century" by Sports Illustrated and the BBC.

Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr., was born in Louisville, Kentucky. He was named after his father, Cassius Marcellus Clay Sr., who was named for the 19th century abolitionist and politician of the same name. Ali changed his name after joining the Nation of Islam in 1964, subsequently converting to Sunni Islam in 1975 and then Sufism.

Ali was known for his fighting style, which he described as "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee". Throughout his career Ali made a name for himself with great handspeed, as well as swift feet and taunting tactics. While Ali was renowned for his fast, sharp out-fighting style, he also had a great chin, and displayed great courage and an ability to take a punch throughout his career.

Muhammad Ali defeated almost every top heavyweight in his era, which has been called the golden age of heavyweight boxing. Ali was named "Fighter of the Year" by Ring Magazine more times than any other fighter, and was involved in more Ring Magazine "Fight of the Year" bouts than any other fighter. He is an inductee into the International Boxing Hall of Fame and holds wins over seven other Hall of Fame inductees.

This is the guy I wanted to be when I was 4 years old. Love this dude.

Strange that the #1 athlete gets picked 3rd in his category.

Hard for me to rank him as #1 when he's not even the top boxer, and likely not even the top heavyweight in terms of actual boxing accomplishments. Pelé, Jordan and Ali, in that order, are a pretty clear top 3 to me, though.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Been meaning to post this ever since Van Gogh was selected-

From the marvelous film, Akira Kurosawa's Dreams, the "Van Gogh" sequence:

 

[Abrantes]

Been meaning to post this ever since Van Gogh was selected-

From the marvelous film, xxxxxxxxxx's Dreams, the "Van Gogh" sequence:

It's a great film. Not sure what kind of crowd you had there.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I will be at a workshop all day tomorrow and Wednesday, so put me on autoskip. I will check back late afternoon both days so I won't get too far behind. If it gets to me tonight, I will pick, however.

Hope that helps.By the way, great draft so far. I should have got in this.

Good catch. PM sent to Doug B.

Thanks Hoos First, I forgot about that as well.timschochet - normally PMs as a courtesy, clock starts from the time the last pick was posted, but in this case we should give Doug B an hour starting from the PM sent (10:51 a.m.) rather than Thorn's pick (10:20 a.m).Agreed?

 

[timschochet]

I find your Red Scare theories interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.Tim, he's claiming Rebel and as a rebel, Lenin was enormously successful. All the rest of your anti-pinko ranting is irrelevant.EDIT: I say this because, as the Leader judge, they would be relevant if he claimed Leader (or Villain).

I think it's an excellent choice for rebel and said so at the time. I was responding to JML's comments. Lenin, had he lived a long life, would be considered equal with or just below Hitler as the greatest monster who ever existed.

And we'll never know.You go on your Historys greatest monster tour and I'll go on my Socialism works tour.The truth probably would have been somewhere in the middle.Lenin was more open in his policies ie allowing for free trade and capitalism after enforcing the NEP, which allowed peasants to farm and sell their extra grain & allowed small business private ownership.Lenin was essentially an idealist who had an opportunity to act on his ideals. His true intent was to remove the class system altogether and strengthen the proletariat.Russia was in a grim state when Lenin took powerRussia had been crippled by decades, if not centuries of Tsarist incompetenceAdd in the First world war, then the Civil War and essentially Russia was dead. Lenin got it on it's feet and moving in the right direction.Stalin took advantage of this start and while making Russia a powerful nation again, but he was the wrong man for the right time.Lenin was the right man.

Lenin wrote that Stalin’s methods were “the onslaught of that really Russian man, the Great Russian chauvinist, in substance a rascal and a tyrant”, adding that “Stalin’s haste and his infatuation with pure administration, together with his spite against the notorious ‘nationalist-socialism’, played a fatal role here.”

No, JML, I don't think the truth is in the middle. Not when we're discussing a brutal killer. The NEP was a pragmatic attempt at theft. When Lenin's initial collectivization policies led to starvation and riots and an inevitable black market, he decided (rather brilliantly) to legalize the black market, so that the government could rake it's share off the top. This worked will for the new "elite" class, meaning Lenin's fellow Communists, but it did nothing to alleviate the misery of the people. I agree with you that Lenin was an idealist. IMO, this made him much more dangerous than a true pragmatist. In the end, Lenin always returned to his terrible ideals. Not sure what you mean by "Lenin was the right man for the right time", unless by "the right time" you mean a time of death and destruction, and Lenin was the right man to carry this out.

 

[timschochet]

Dreams was a beautiful, artistic film. And the Van Gogh sequence is spectacular. Not sure what you watched.

 

[Abrantes]

The NEP was a pragmatic attempt at theft.

Is this another shot at the Patriots?

Dudes can't get a break.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Been meaning to post this ever since Van Gogh was selected-

From the marvelous film, xxxxxxxxxx's Dreams, the "Van Gogh" sequence:

This was a group of movie lovers who paid good money to watch non Hollywood movies. (20 different movies in 20 weeks)It wasn't as if it were the (Insert Crappy Actor here) crowd.

I got a lot out of that 20 weeks, became a big fan of *****, French comedies and *****.

I really enjoyed 15 of those movies.

As always, maybe I was in a bad frame of mind or the stream of people leaving put me off, but I will watch it again one day to see if my perception changes. It's happened before, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Apocalypse Now & Dark City are 3 movies I loathed, but now love.

 

[BobbyLayne]

5.08 DC Thunder - out for the day, on autoskip (SEE 10:42 a.m. EST post)

5.09 Doug B - On The Clock until 11:51 a.m. EST

5.10 Mad Sweeney - On Deck

5.11 Big Rocks - In The Hole

5.12 higgins

5.13 John Madden's Lunchbox

5.14 Usual21

5.15 thatguy

5.16 Andy Dufresne

5.17 Herbert The Hippo

5.18 Bobbylayne

5.19 Mister CIA

5.20 Abrantes

 

[Abrantes]

I appreciate the clarification, JML. Some movies aren't for everyone, and I'm certainly not trying to force you to like something you don't, but I do think it's worth a second look.

However, even though cinema doesn't get a specific category in this draft, I'd rather not spotlight directors or actors too much. I love every director you mentioned, but they still fit as non-painters or wildcards here.

 

[FUBAR]

I've only read one Victor Hugo novel, but what a novel it is: Les Miserables probably among the top 20 best novels I have ever read. Now these are memorable characters: the heroic Valjean, the law and order Javert, the fiend Thenardier, the naive Marius. The book is also a great defense of Christianity; perhaps the best argument I have ever read for how Christian morals and self-sacrifice can improve one's life. Larry, regarding the argument we had yesterday, this book represents the best of your position. And it is a find romantic read, and very suspenseful. I mentioned that two French novels were among my very favorites, and I expected both authors to be selected; this is one of them.

Van Gogh should be easy top 5. Plus, he cut off a piece of his ear, which has got to say something right? There may be a couple of guys above him though.

One thing I want to add about Vincent- I went to MOMA last year in NY and looked at Starry Starry Night and I was not that impressed. I admit being a neophyte about art, but I'm not sure what makes that painting such a classic, compared to many other works there which I really enjoyed quite a bit more.

1. Hugo. I'll add this to the argument: Hugo was enormously influential on everyone who came after him. He's one of those writers whom other writers mention constantly, and not just the French, the English and Americans loved him too. As a playwright, I'm a bit out of my water, but who hasn't heard of Les Miserable?

I don't think he's top 5 material in Novel/Short Story, but he's clearly a great value pick. He may do better in the playwright/poet category.

Which brings me to something else: THAT IS ONE !@#$% OF A CATEGORY TO FIGURE OUT. A few friends and I were talking about this draft last night, and after the #1 playwright and #1 poet (The Bard and Homer) we had no clue how to rank the rest. I can't specify why, because even a coded recount of our conversation will spotlight too much. Our conclusion: it should be two categories.

It's too late now. I'd hate pick or judge that category though. What a headache.

2. I can't believe you weren't impressed with Starry Night, Tim. I saw it at The Met ten years ago and was mesmerized. I sat on a bench behind the ever-present crowd of people, and just starred at it for over two hours. The colors are so vibrant. The strokes are so thick, rich, intense, purposeful. Like everyone I'd already seen a gazillion copies in college dorm rooms, so I couldn't help thinking that I was experiencing what Walter XXXXXXXX said about the dissolution of the aesthetic aura in the age of mechanical reproduction. I was in the presence of the original, and it absolutely shocked me how powerful it was (I had expected the exact opposite to happen). It was one of my top 10 life moments, I think, my first epiphany about the nature of art.

1. I'm not aware that Hugo wrote plays, or poems. Perhaps he did, I just don't know. His fame is as a novelist.2. I know what you're saying; my wife said the same thing, and she was an art major at UCLA. I just didn't see it myself. Other paintings I can't mention at the moment impressed me with their colors much more, but again I don't claim to know anything about this subject. I would compare it to when I went to Napa Valley and engaged in wine tasting. There were wines I liked more than others, but I had no expertise at all.

It's certainly how I know him and how most Americans know him, but wiki says

In France, Hugo's literary reputation rests primarily on his poetic and dramatic output and only secondarily on his novels.

I'll probably keep him as novelist but hope to gain extra credit for his poetry.

L’amour dans les Contemplations peut prendre différentes formes. Il peut s’agir de l’amour naïf d’adolescent (Vieille chanson du jeune temps)[1]. C’est un amour où l’expression des sentiments est maladroite et hésitante.

L’amour sensuel aussi est important. La sensualité est soit discrète (comme dans la majorité des poèmes[2]) voire de manière exceptionnelle érotique[3]. L’amour est ainsi source de bonheur et de joie[4].

 

[mad sweeney]

Leaving for the gym in 15/20 minutes. Anyone available for a PM por favor?

 

[timschochet]

OK, gotta go. Good luck everyone!

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I find your Red Scare theories interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.Tim, he's claiming Rebel and as a rebel, Lenin was enormously successful. All the rest of your anti-pinko ranting is irrelevant.EDIT: I say this because, as the Leader judge, they would be relevant if he claimed Leader (or Villain).

I think it's an excellent choice for rebel and said so at the time. I was responding to JML's comments. Lenin, had he lived a long life, would be considered equal with or just below Hitler as the greatest monster who ever existed.

And we'll never know.You go on your Historys greatest monster tour and I'll go on my Socialism works tour.The truth probably would have been somewhere in the middle.Lenin was more open in his policies ie allowing for free trade and capitalism after enforcing the NEP, which allowed peasants to farm and sell their extra grain & allowed small business private ownership.Lenin was essentially an idealist who had an opportunity to act on his ideals. His true intent was to remove the class system altogether and strengthen the proletariat.Russia was in a grim state when Lenin took powerRussia had been crippled by decades, if not centuries of Tsarist incompetenceAdd in the First world war, then the Civil War and essentially Russia was dead. Lenin got it on it's feet and moving in the right direction.Stalin took advantage of this start and while making Russia a powerful nation again, but he was the wrong man for the right time.Lenin was the right man.

Lenin wrote that Stalin’s methods were “the onslaught of that really Russian man, the Great Russian chauvinist, in substance a rascal and a tyrant”, adding that “Stalin’s haste and his infatuation with pure administration, together with his spite against the notorious ‘nationalist-socialism’, played a fatal role here.”

No, JML, I don't think the truth is in the middle. Not when we're discussing a brutal killer. The NEP was a pragmatic attempt at theft. When Lenin's initial collectivization policies led to starvation and riots and an inevitable black market, he decided (rather brilliantly) to legalize the black market, so that the government could rake it's share off the top. This worked will for the new "elite" class, meaning Lenin's fellow Communists, but it did nothing to alleviate the misery of the people. I agree with you that Lenin was an idealist. IMO, this made him much more dangerous than a true pragmatist. In the end, Lenin always returned to his terrible ideals. Not sure what you mean by "Lenin was the right man for the right time", unless by "the right time" you mean a time of death and destruction, and Lenin was the right man to carry this out.

Russia - Raped by the CzarsRussia - Raped by WWIRussia - Raped by the west in Supporting the Whites in the civil warRussia needed some friggin leadership and got it in Lenin. Of course he murdered, he was a revolutionary. He then had to consolidate and deal with interference from Western Nations trying to undermine what he was trying to create.People die, many horribly in these circumstances and Lenin was ruthless in quashing dissent, but to blame what happened subsequently on Lenin doesn't examine the circumstances of the time.Lenin effectively had just got started in 1921 when ill health started to take its toll. You'll get no argument from me that Stalin was a piece of ####, but if Lenin had lived, we may have seen something similar as per your suggestion, but I doubt it.Outside the kind of Socialism seen in Europe now, Leninism defeats Communism, Stalinism, Marxism etc in it's ideals.Leninism is progressive while taking care of the masses.Essentially Leninism is a libertarian reappraisal of the writings of Marx. Read State and Revolution for what Lenin was trying to achieve. He may never have got to that Utopia, but that was what he wanted to do.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Leaving for the gym in 15/20 minutes. Anyone available for a PM por favor?

Send it, I'll be around to post it for you.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I appreciate the clarification, JML. Some movies aren't for everyone, and I'm certainly not trying to force you to like something you don't, but I do think it's worth a second look.However, even though cinema doesn't get a specific category in this draft, I'd rather not spotlight directors or actors too much. I love every director you mentioned, but they still fit as non-painters or wildcards here.

Crap. Done it again.I've editted to remove spotlighting.If I see Dreams in the cheap DVD's, I'll get it and watch it at least twice more.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Again, given my new controlling theory that no one will fall to the next pick so grab him/her now when you can and don't look back, I am taking another "father."

I am going to select a king who created an empire that changed the course of world history. A king who is considered a great by three different empires that lasted long after his reign. Simply put, he's not just considered the father of the German and French monarchies, he is considered the Father of all of Europe. His empire created a new European commonality that continued for centuries, and in some respects continues today. He is Charles the First in France, Germany and among the histories of the Holy Roman Empire.

His coronation birthed the Holy Roman Empire. His reign was constant war expanding that empire. His economic, cultural and theological reforms rebirthed Europe. His was annointed a saint by the Holy Roman Empire. The name given by later generations to Charles, King of the Franks, first sovereign of the Christian Empire of the West is the man I select.

Charlemagne who was the greatest ruler in Europe in the centuries following the fall of the Roman empire. In a long reign that lasted from A.D. 768 to 814, he conquered most of western Europe and converted many of its pagan peoples to Christianity. In 800 he became the Emperor of the Romans. Under Charlemagne's rule, Europe experienced a great revival in learning and the arts, which had declined dramatically after the collapse of Rome. The legends that grew up around Charlemagne focus on his military and political skills and on his moral conduct.

'Let my armies be the rocks and the trees and the birds in the sky'.

Are you claiming Leader or Military?In general, could everyone at least claim a provisional category when you draft someone? Speaking as a judge, it'd help a lot.

You can always switch later, but for now, it's help me when forming a provisional ranking.

Thanks.

I've slotted him as a Leader for now.

 

[mad sweeney]

Leaving for the gym in 15/20 minutes. Anyone available for a PM por favor?

Send it, I'll be around to post it for you.

Thanks, but I'll just stick around for another 10 minutes since I can't decide on who to pick as a back up.As for when the clock starts, IMO it should be from when the PM is sent. I'm going to be very dependent on PMs tomorrow and Thursday to know when it's my turn. Any argument that can be made about "paying attention" could be applied to Doug B's case today. And I believe that yesterday there was a skip where the hour still started at the previous pick but I could be wrong.

 

[mad sweeney]

I will continue what I believe to be a good trend of picking great value on overlooked figures and stick my team back up in the ranks of powerhouses to challenge the notion of Larry being in the lead. I'll do a writeup later as I am running out the door but some of the more literary minded may have some things to say before I do.

5.10 Fyodor Dostoyevsky Novelist

 

[Ozymandias]

5.07 Gustavus Adolphus, Military

I'm not really sure what the reaction to this pick will be. I admittedly know very little about military history, but my understanding is that this Swedish king is the father of modern warfare, and I don't want to get down to researching the next tier. This guy led Sweden to defeat, in successive wars, Denmark, Russia, and Poland. And that's before he took on the Thirty Years War.

Today's military leader, when asked, who was the greatest "Captain of Military History" would probably reply with the likes of Alexander, Hannibal, Caesar, XXXX, or Napoleon. These captains, while leading their exceptional armies, provided significant innovations in operational and strategic art that are still practiced today. Although these contributions are noteworthy, their changes were evolutionary, rather than revolutionary. Truly the most prolific revolutionary but least well known "Captain of Military History" was Gustavus Adolphus, "The Father of Combined Arms Warfare." A skilled and conscientious monarch, he created the grand army of Sweden which in the early 1630s during the Thirty Years' War, saved Germany from becoming a Catholic state under the auspices of the Emperor XXXX. Gustavus' innovations and improvements in the use of field artillery, redesigned battle formations, streamlined logistics, use of cavalry as a shock weapon and improvements to musketry highlight the importance of his contributions to today's warfighter.

Before Adolphus, armies mostly operated with groups of unorganized mercenaries with little in the way of a chain of command. He organized his men to act as a unit, he made use of supply lines and bases, and integrated it all with his calvalry, infantry and artillery to form with world's first professional army.

Well, it could be good, or it could be bad. There is much to be said in favor. But then there is much to be said in favor of others, too.

I'm not going to say any more, or people will whine.

 

[Doug B]

Skip me now ... I'll pick iin a few hours. Work got crazy with no warning.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I will continue what I believe to be a good trend of picking great value on overlooked figures and stick my team back up in the ranks of powerhouses to challenge the notion of Larry being in the lead. I'll do a writeup later as I am running out the door but some of the more literary minded may have some things to say before I do.

5.10 Fyodor Dostoyevsky Novelist

Should be top two but who knows with a Seven Sisters judge.

Very nice, good job.

 

[krista4]

I will continue what I believe to be a good trend of picking great value on overlooked figures and stick my team back up in the ranks of powerhouses to challenge the notion of Larry being in the lead. I'll do a writeup later as I am running out the door but some of the more literary minded may have some things to say before I do.

5.10 Fyodor Dostoyevsky Novelist

Should be top two but who knows with a Seven Sisters judge.

Very nice, good job.

How many people do you have in your top two?

 

[Abrantes]

I like Tolstoy better, but there's no doubt that Dostoyevsky is a great pick.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I will continue what I believe to be a good trend of picking great value on overlooked figures and stick my team back up in the ranks of powerhouses to challenge the notion of Larry being in the lead. I'll do a writeup later as I am running out the door but some of the more literary minded may have some things to say before I do.

5.10 Fyodor Dostoyevsky Novelist

Should be top two but who knows with a Seven Sisters judge.

Very nice, good job.

How many people do you have in your top two?

I try to keep at least 10 sets, that way I can compliment everyone.

Believe was my first literary category comment. Should I have knocked first?



I have Tolstoy 3rd, but you and Thorn should be able to straighten us out.

 

[larry_boy_44]

I will continue what I believe to be a good trend of picking great value on overlooked figures and stick my team back up in the ranks of powerhouses to challenge the notion of Larry being in the lead. I'll do a writeup later as I am running out the door but some of the more literary minded may have some things to say before I do.

5.10 Fyodor Dostoyevsky Novelist

my spell check (that tells me when Greek names are correct) wants me to change his last name to "astrophysical"...I don't know why...

 

[Big Rocks]

Just caught up, so pick is coming...

 

[BobbyLayne]

5.08 DC Thunder - out for the day, on autoskip

5.09 Doug B - autoskip for today, will catch up

5.11 Big Rocks - On The Clock until 12:53 9.m. EST

5.12 higgins - On Deck

5.13 John Madden's Lunchbox - In The Hole

5.14 Usual21

5.15 thatguy

5.16 Andy Dufresne

5.17 Herbert The Hippo

5.18 Bobbylayne

5.19 Mister CIA

5.20 Abrantes

 

[krista4]

I will continue what I believe to be a good trend of picking great value on overlooked figures and stick my team back up in the ranks of powerhouses to challenge the notion of Larry being in the lead. I'll do a writeup later as I am running out the door but some of the more literary minded may have some things to say before I do.

5.10 Fyodor Dostoyevsky Novelist

Should be top two but who knows with a Seven Sisters judge.

Very nice, good job.

How many people do you have in your top two?

I try to keep at least 10 sets, that way I can compliment everyone.

Believe was my first literary category comment. Should I have knocked first?



I have Tolstoy 3rd, but you and Thorn should be able to straighten us out.

We'll see. I've had a PM from many different people just commenting that X is "obviously #1 in novel/short story" or that Y is "clearly top three". A little of the same in poet/playwright, but mostly in this category. There are at least 10 people that are "clearly" top three and five that are "clearly" #1.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Larry Boy's comment about his Greek spell checker reminded me of this:

When an English speaker doesn't understand a word one says, it's "Greek to me". When a Hebrew speaker encounters this difficulty, it "sounds like Chinese". I've been told the Korean equivalent is "sounds like Hebrew".

Someone actually took the time to map out mutual misunderstanding in a diagram.

 

[Big Rocks]

5.11 Ramesses II aka Ramses the Great, leader

I have no idea how this pick will be received, but I think that he deserves to be up there among the greatest leaders of all time. He led his people for over 60 years and is easily Egypt's greatest and most celebrated leader ever. He lived for over 90 years old and over that time built Egypt into a vast empire and included many temples and shrines to honor him. Since he was so old and kept out living his heirs, he was estimated to have over 100 children.

Ramesses II (also known as Ramesses The Great and alternatively transcribed as Ramses and Rameses *Riʕmīsisu; also known as Ozymandias in the Greek sources, from a transliteration into Greek of a part of Ramesses' throne name, User-maat-re Setep-en-re)[5] was the third Egyptian pharaoh of the Nineteenth dynasty. He is often regarded as Egypt's greatest, most celebrated, and most powerful pharaoh.[6] His successors and later Egyptians called him the "Great Ancestor."[citation needed] Today he is often believed to have been the Pharaoh of the Exodus.[7]

He was born around 1303 BC and at age fourteen, Ramesses was appointed Prince Regent by his father xxx.[6] He is believed to have taken the throne in his early 20s and to have ruled Egypt from 1279 BC to 1213 BC[8] for a total of 66 years and 2 months, according to xxx. He was once said to have lived to be 99 years old, but it is more likely that he died in his 90th or 91st year. If he became king in 1279 BC as most Egyptologists today believe, he would have assumed the throne on May 31, 1279 BC, based on his known accession date of III Shemu day 27.[9][10] Ramesses II celebrated an unprecedented 14 sed festivals during his reign—more than any other pharaoh.[11] On his death, he was buried in a tomb in the Valley of the Kings;[12] his body was later moved to a royal cache where it was discovered in 1881, and is now on display in the Cairo Museum.[13]

As king, Ramesses II led several expeditions north into the lands east of the Mediterranean (the location of the modern Israel, Lebanon and Syria). He also led expeditions to the south, into Nubia, commemorated in inscriptions a xxx

The early part of his reign was focused on building cities, temples and monuments. He established the city of Pi-Ramesses in the Nile Delta as his new capital and main base for his campaigns in Syria. This city was built on the remains of the city of Avaris, the capital of the Hyksos when they took over, and was the location of the main Temple of Set.

Full bio here.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I will continue what I believe to be a good trend of picking great value on overlooked figures and stick my team back up in the ranks of powerhouses to challenge the notion of Larry being in the lead. I'll do a writeup later as I am running out the door but some of the more literary minded may have some things to say before I do.

5.10 Fyodor Dostoyevsky Novelist

Should be top two :X but who knows with a Seven Sisters judge.

Very nice, good job.

How many people do you have in your top two?

I try to keep at least 10 sets, that way I can compliment everyone.

Believe was my first literary category comment. Should I have knocked first?



I have Tolstoy 3rd, but you and Thorn should be able to straighten us out.

We'll see. I've had a PM from many different people just commenting that X is "obviously #1 in novel/short story" or that Y is "clearly top three". A little of the same in poet/playwright, but mostly in this category. There are at least 10 people that are "clearly" top three and five that are "clearly" #1.

Literature and artists are four (two each) really difficult subjective categories. In the painters Monet barely makes the top ten, and Van Gogh isn't even among the top fifteen most important or influential. Yet if you're judging them in a draft, you feel compelled to rank both no worse than 5th because they are so iconic, so popular, so ubiquitous. Same deal with composers - there's no way J.S. Bach ranks third, but everyone thinks he should be there, so he'll probably end up there.I would hate to judge Lit - it would mean ranking works that I think are undeserving of a high rank because X spurts have cannonized them over the years.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

5.11 Ramesses II aka Ramses the Great, leaderI have no idea how this pick will be received....

I personally like the pick, but feel it will not be received well by the judges.

 

[higgins]

This is an effort to separate myself from the traditional renaissance artists, by going for a different type of painting that can be considered instantly recognizable...

5.12 -- Salvador Dali, Painter.

link

Salvador Domingo Felipe Jacinto Dalí i Domènech, 1st Marquis of Púbol (May 11, 1904 – January 23, 1989) was a Spanish Catalan surrealist painter born in Figueres.

Dalí was a skilled draftsman, best known for the striking and bizarre images in his surrealist work. His painterly skills are often attributed to the influence of Renaissance masters. His best-known work, The Persistence of Memory, was completed in 1931. Dalí's expansive artistic repertoire includes film, sculpture, and photography, in collaboration with a range of artists in a variety of media.

Dalí attributed his "love of everything that is gilded and excessive, my passion for luxury and my love of oriental clothes" to a self-styled "Arab lineage," claiming that his ancestors were descended from the Moors.

Dalí employed extensive symbolism in his work. For instance, the hallmark "soft watches" that first appear in The Persistence of Memory suggest Einstein's theory that time is relative and not fixed. The idea for clocks functioning symbolically in this way came to Dalí when he was staring at a runny piece of Camembert cheese on a hot day in August.

The elephant is also a recurring image in Dalí's works. It first appeared in his 1944 work Dream Caused by the Flight of a Bee around a Pomegranate a Second Before Awakening. The elephants, inspired by Gian Lorenzo Bernini's sculpture base in Rome of an elephant carrying an ancient obelisk,[ are portrayed "with long, multijointed, almost invisible legs of desire"[52] along with obelisks on their backs. Coupled with the image of their brittle legs, these encumbrances, noted for their phallic overtones, create a sense of phantom reality. "The elephant is a distortion in space," one analysis explains, "its spindly legs contrasting the idea of weightlessness with structure."[52] "I am painting pictures which make me die for joy, I am creating with an absolute naturalness, without the slightest aesthetic concern, I am making things that inspire me with a profound emotion and I am trying to paint them honestly." —Salvador Dalí, in Dawn Ades, Dalí and Surrealism.

Hello, Dali.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

This is an effort to separate myself from the traditional renaissance artists, by going for a different type of art is that can be considered instantly recognizable...

5.12 -- Salvador Dali, Painter.

Mother******I was just about to pick him. Seriously.

Genius

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

give me a minute while I regroup

 

[Doug B]

5.9 - Rembrandt van Rijn, Painter

Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn (July 15, 1606 – October 4, 1669) was a Dutch painter and etcher. He is generally considered one of the greatest painters and printmakers in European art history ... His contributions to art came in a period that historians call the Dutch Golden Age.

Having achieved youthful success as a portrait painter, his later years were marked by personal tragedy and financial hardship. Yet his drawings and paintings were popular throughout his lifetime, his reputation as an artist remained high and for twenty years he taught nearly every important Dutch painter. Rembrandt's greatest creative triumphs are exemplified especially in his portraits of his contemporaries, self-portraits and illustrations of scenes from the Bible. The self-portraits form a unique and intimate biography, in which the artist surveyed himself without vanity and with the utmost sincerity.

In both painting and printmaking he exhibited a complete knowledge of classical iconography, which he molded to fit the requirements of his own experience; thus, the depiction of a biblical scene was informed by Rembrandt's knowledge of the specific text, his assimilation of classical composition, and his observations of the Jewish population of Amsterdam. Because of his empathy for the human condition, he has been called "one of the great prophets of civilization."

Christ In The Storm On The Sea Of GalileeThe Abduction of Europa

The Night Watch

Abraham & Isaac

Descent from the Cross

Return of the Prodigal Son

Self-portrait

Ridiculously detailed self-portait etching

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Literature and artists are four (two each) really difficult subjective categories. In the painters Monet barely makes the top ten, and Van Gogh isn't even among the top fifteen most important or influential. Yet if you're judging them in a draft, you feel compelled to rank both no worse than 5th because they are so iconic, so popular, so ubiquitous. Same deal with composers - there's no way J.S. Bach ranks third, but everyone thinks he should be there, so he'll probably end up there.

I would hate to judge Lit - it would mean ranking works that I think are undeserving of a high rank because X spurts have cannonized them over the years.

This is why I tried to develop a ranking system that takes into account a wide range of factors to evaluate the art categories. I think you're understimating the importance of both Monet and Von Gogh, but I don't want to go too far down that discussion path. Founding a movement or making a technical advance is important, but so is cultural influence and global awareness. I'll try my best to objectively evalute as much as possible, and minimize the degree of subjectivity.

 

[BobbyLayne]

"You can not expel me because I am Surrealism!"

That's what Dalí shouted when he was expelled him from the surrealist movement due to Dalí's fascist ideals.

He is without question the most famous in all the surrealist movement.

Popularity and iconography tend to do well in these drafts, especially the voting.

Personally I think his paintings make a nice album cover illustration, or maybe a poster in a dorm room.

I don't have any surrealists in my top 50 painters, but Arsenal probably will have him fairly high.

 

[Doug B]

Wow ... glad I went Painter. A mini-run had already started, and higgins picked another titan while I was composing my Rembrandt post

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

5:13 - Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santísima Trinidad Ruiz y Picasso (Pablo Picasso)

Painter (for now). May move him to Artist/Non painter if I need to

Picasso was a Spanish painter, draughtsman, and sculptor. As one of the most recognized figures in 20th-century art, he is best known for co-founding the Cubist movement and for the wide variety of styles embodied in his work. Among his most famous works are the proto-Cubist Les Demoiselles d'Avignon (1907) and his depiction of the German bombing of Guernica during the Spanish Civil War, Guernica (1937).

He was exceptionally prolific throughout his long lifetime. The total number of artworks he produced has been estimated at 50,000, comprising 1,885 paintings; 1,228 sculptures; 2,880 ceramics, roughly 12,000 drawings, many thousands of prints, and numerous tapestries and rugs.[39] At the time of his death many of his paintings were in his possession, as he had kept off the art market what he didn’t need to sell. In addition, Picasso had a considerable collection of the work of other famous artists, some his contemporaries, such as xxxxxxxxx, with whom he had exchanged works. Since Picasso left no will, his death duties (estate tax) to the French state were paid in the form of his works and others from his collection. These works form the core of the immense and representative collection of the Musée Picasso in Paris. In 2003, relatives of Picasso inaugurated a museum dedicated to him in his birthplace, Málaga, Spain, the Museo Picasso Málaga.

Picasso sculpture in HalmstadThe Museu Picasso in Barcelona features many of Picasso’s early works, created while he was living in Spain, including many rarely seen works which reveal Picasso’s firm grounding in classical techniques. The museum also holds many precise and detailed figure studies done in his youth under his father’s tutelage, as well as the extensive collection of Jaime Sabartés, Picasso’s close friend and personal secretary.

Several paintings by Picasso rank among the most expensive paintings in the world. Garçon à la pipe sold for USD $104 million at Sotheby's on 4 May 2004, establishing a new price record. Dora Maar au Chat sold for USD $95.2 million at Sotheby’s on 3 May 2006.[40]

As of 2004, Picasso remains the top ranked artist (based on sales of his works at auctions) according to the Art Market Trends report.(pdf) More of his paintings have been stolen than those by any other artist.[41]

 

[BobbyLayne]

5:13 - Pablo Picasso

#1

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

"You can not expel me because I am Surrealism!"

That's what Dalí shouted when he was expelled him from the surrealist movement due to Dalí's fascist ideals.

He is without question the most famous in all the surrealist movement.

Popularity and iconography tend to do well in these drafts, especially the voting.

Personally I think his paintings make a nice album cover illustration, or maybe a poster in a dorm room.

I don't have any surrealists in my top 50 painters, but Arsenal probably will have him fairly high.

I think Dali will score well since he represents the height of his movement and has a good awareness factor. I expect he'll be solidly in the second tier of painters.ETA: Wow, what a painter run as everyone scrambles to get one of the "big" names. Rembrandt and Picasso are great picks. I haven't scored any of the picks yet, but I think both will likely be in the first tier.

 

[higgins]

"You can not expel me because I am Surrealism!"

That's what Dalí shouted when he was expelled him from the surrealist movement due to Dalí's fascist ideals.

He is without question the most famous in all the surrealist movement.

Popularity and iconography tend to do well in these drafts, especially the voting.

Personally I think his paintings make a nice album cover illustration, or maybe a poster in a dorm room.

I don't have any surrealists in my top 50 painters, but Arsenal probably will have him fairly high.

Agreed. That was my thinking as well -- most of "the greats" were taken, and felt I had to separate myself from the Renaissance to get some kind of a leg up.

 

[BobbyLayne]

5.9 - Rembrandt van Rijn, Painter

Great pick, top 5 on anyone's list. Even mine