World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

[Fennis]

An Asian man, a black man, a white man, and an Arab man were taken in the first 4 picks.

wait...WHAT?!?!Jesus was not black...

Maybe not, but Jesus surely wasn’t white.

I'm aware of that...being "not white" does not make you black...

Fair enough.

 

[timschochet]

And I defy anyone here to find any respectable scholar that considers Ancient Greece European. Or Rome for that matter. Now we are for the purposes of this draft to some degree but that's an artifical contruct for ease not accuracy.

Please explain this comment. I just looked at "Europe" on Wikipedia, went to the "history" section, and the first thing that comes up is "Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome". If these are not European, what exactly are they?

 

[Ozymandias]

And I defy anyone here to find any respectable scholar that considers Ancient Greece European. Or Rome for that matter. Now we are for the purposes of this draft to some degree but that's an artifical contruct for ease not accuracy.

Please explain this comment. I just looked at "Europe" on Wikipedia, went to the "history" section, and the first thing that comes up is "Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome". If these are not European, what exactly are they?

African-Greeks and African-Romans. They used to have a single name, but then Al Sharptonis and Jesse Jacksonus insisted on the changes.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome are always seperated from Europe in any scholarly discussion Larry. They influenced Europe they were not of it.

I'm aware of that...I'm just saying that Rome and Greece are more European than Asian or African or Arab and its not even close...

 

[larry_boy_44]

And I defy anyone here to find any respectable scholar that considers Ancient Greece European. Or Rome for that matter. Now we are for the purposes of this draft to some degree but that's an artifical contruct for ease not accuracy.

Please explain this comment. I just looked at "Europe" on Wikipedia, went to the "history" section, and the first thing that comes up is "Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome". If these are not European, what exactly are they?

African-Greeks and African-Romans. They used to have a single name, but then Al Sharptonis and Jesse Jacksonus insisted on the changes.

WTF?They weren't African...Mediterranean maybe... but definitely NOT African...

 

[timschochet]

Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome are always seperated from Europe in any scholarly discussion Larry. They influenced Europe they were not of it.

I'm aware of that ...I'm just saying that Rome and Greece are more European than Asian or African or Arab and its not even close...

Well, you and NC might be aware of it but I'm not, and neither is Wikipedia. When I made my point earlier about White European men dominating this draft, I was including the ancient Greeks and Romans who are going to be drafted. So far as I know, they are of white skin, and from the continent of Europe.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome are always seperated from Europe in any scholarly discussion Larry. They influenced Europe they were not of it.

I'm aware of that ...I'm just saying that Rome and Greece are more European than Asian or African or Arab and its not even close...

Well, you and NC might be aware of it but I'm not, and neither is Wikipedia. When I made my point earlier about White European men dominating this draft, I was including the ancient Greeks and Romans who are going to be drafted. So far as I know, they are of white skin, and from the continent of Europe.

Rome and Greece, from what I remember, were more "Mediterranean" and thus separate from England, France, Germany, & Spain... (although eventually Germany was the "Holy Roman Empire" if I remember history right...)its a silly separation and one that completely ignores geography and instead is using time periods more than anything and the fact that it wasn't known as Europe when Rome and Greece were major powers...

 

[timschochet]

As far as Jesus goes, sure it's true that more than likely he had the brown skin, dark hair, and brown eyes of a typical Middle eastern Jew of that time period. But we don't know this for 100% certain, because Romans and Greeks had already been to the Middle East, and there had been some intermixing of races to be sure. So there is at least the possibility of a blue-eyed Jesus....

However, a Black Jesus seems highly improbable, to say the least.

 

[Ozymandias]

And I defy anyone here to find any respectable scholar that considers Ancient Greece European. Or Rome for that matter. Now we are for the purposes of this draft to some degree but that's an artifical contruct for ease not accuracy.

Please explain this comment. I just looked at "Europe" on Wikipedia, went to the "history" section, and the first thing that comes up is "Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome". If these are not European, what exactly are they?

African-Greeks and African-Romans. They used to have a single name, but then Al Sharptonis and Jesse Jacksonus insisted on the changes.

WTF?They weren't African...Mediterranean maybe... but definitely NOT African...

That was not a serious comment, so don't take it seriously.

 

[timschochet]

8 picks in, and we're already at 9 pages. Outstanding. This thread promises to be even longer than the American draft.

 

[Mario Kart]

You guys are being way to literal when you are discussing Ancient Rome and Greece. In fact, I could consider this spot lighting and not good for this draft as it leads people one way or the other. Those empires covered much more land than European land so to say they are of European decent does not give any favor to the other parts of those empires and is unfair to assume. When discussing Ancient Rome and Greece... they are not really Europe per se because they encompassed more land than that.

 

[Fennis]

As far as Jesus goes, sure it's true that more than likely he had the brown skin, dark hair, and brown eyes of a typical Middle eastern Jew of that time period. But we don't know this for 100% certain, because Romans and Greeks had already been to the Middle East, and there had been some intermixing of races to be sure. So there is at least the possibility of a blue-eyed Jesus....

However, a Black Jesus seems highly improbable, to say the least.

I disagree. Of course, watch too many Kevin Smith movies.

 

[larry_boy_44]

And I defy anyone here to find any respectable scholar that considers Ancient Greece European. Or Rome for that matter. Now we are for the purposes of this draft to some degree but that's an artifical contruct for ease not accuracy.

Please explain this comment. I just looked at "Europe" on Wikipedia, went to the "history" section, and the first thing that comes up is "Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome". If these are not European, what exactly are they?

African-Greeks and African-Romans. They used to have a single name, but then Al Sharptonis and Jesse Jacksonus insisted on the changes.

WTF?They weren't African...Mediterranean maybe... but definitely NOT African...

That was not a serious comment, so don't take it seriously.

I guess that just goes to show how little I think of humanity... lol i actually could see that happening...

 

[mad sweeney]

I'm all caught up and I am down to 2 or 3 people, so as soon as 1.09 is made and I get over my burst of searing (similar to the one at 1.08) then I will make a pick. Sorry, I should have stated the possibility of a pick tonight so that those before me didn't wait.

A few things:

MK-I don't think I said I would've for sure taken Tzu, just that he was a guy I was thinking of that might last to 10. I was really hoping for DaVinci.

NCC- Feel free to nudge, I haven't had a chance to do much more than scour for a big name for round 1.

Shakespeare?! Hanry the Fizzif?! Mere charlatans in the realm of war speeches. It is a known fact acknowledged from China to America, from pole to pole that these are the two best war speeches given in the history of Earth.

War

As for other Bard Bidness, if you haven't seen Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead do yourself a favor and go get it. A film adaptation of the Tom Stoppard play, directed by Stoppard with great performances by Gary Oldman and Tim Roth as the hapless and doomed eponymous characters. The more you know about Hamlet the more you'll like it. Although the actor who played Hamlet is probably the worst Hamlet I've ever seen, including in high school.

 

[Doug B]

I see madsweeney is here, and I don't want to hold him up from drafting tonight. I am not ready to pick ... but I don't want to see a 10-pick run go on tonight while I am not here.

How about this -- since madsweeney came in and said he'll pick tonight, I am cool with him -- and him alone -- skipping me. But after that, just turn off the draft and I'll make a pick in the morning.

 

[Abrantes]

I'm only liking the DaVinci pick if he is used in the Wildcard slot. Maybe he can be argued to be the best painter, but I think there may be some others in that tier. And I don't buy an argument he's the undisputed top guy in any other slot, like Scientist. His brilliance is that he rates near (though not necessarily in) the top tier in multiple slots. Pigeonholing him as a painter is a terrible waste. I realize slots can be changed, but it should be pretty obvious what slot your 1st round pick goes into. Make him the Wildcard and he probably blows away any other Wildcard by a big margin. Maybe by as much value as Shakespeare has in the Playwright slot.

Agreed 100%. Only way to get your money's worth out of the quintessential Renaissance Man.

 

[Abrantes]

As for other Bard Bidness, if you haven't seen Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead do yourself a favor and go get it. A film adaptation of the Tom Stoppard play, directed by Stoppard with great performances by Gary Oldman and Tim Roth as the hapless and doomed eponymous characters. The more you know about Hamlet the more you'll like it. Although the actor who played Hamlet is probably the worst Hamlet I've ever seen, including in high school.

The play itself is even better, if you ask me (and I love Roth and Oldman).

 

[mad sweeney]

As for other Bard Bidness, if you haven't seen Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead do yourself a favor and go get it. A film adaptation of the Tom Stoppard play, directed by Stoppard with great performances by Gary Oldman and Tim Roth as the hapless and doomed eponymous characters. The more you know about Hamlet the more you'll like it. Although the actor who played Hamlet is probably the worst Hamlet I've ever seen, including in high school.

The play itself is even better, if you ask me (and I love Roth and Oldman).

I'm sure it is, I've never been able to see it. It was my understanding that the movie was word for word. Also it's shot in an exceptionally proscenium-esque manner so you really get the feel that it's a play you're watching. Plus it's got Pink Floyd for the closing credits with "Seamus". I thought Oldman was especially good although it's Dreyfuss' "...Til then" line that gives me shivers. I've been unable to see plays since I had a herniated disc for most of my late 20s and 30s that kept me from sitting long periods (over an hour) at a time. So a lot of my social endeavors were curtailed. Now that I finally got it surgically corrected I am more able to do such like that and in fact will be looking for a showing of it. Being in an artsy part of LA, there is a small theater on almost every corner.eta: I did see Waiting For Godot once which is exceptionally similar.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Sorry JML, if you ask any German today over 75, they will tell you, "Oh, we all hated Hitler, we were just terrified of him." They're lying either to you, or to themselves. Probably the latter.

The sad truth is quite the opposite. Are you aware that, until 1939, Hitler would ignore his own bodyguards, and go wading into crowds shaking hands? And they worshipped the guy! He was treated like a god. People who claim that Obama gets worshipped should look at old film of the way people treated Hitler. THAT was worship.

The German people are forever embarrassed about this time of their history, as they should be, so they invent rationale to make them feel better about themselves. It is simply not true. Most Germans DID love Hitler.

First it was

Very, very few Germans did not absolutely love Adolf Hitler.

Now it's MOST Germans did love HitlerHitler got 30.1% of the vote in 1932, then 36.8 in the 2nd election of 1932. July saw it rise to 37.8. It Dropped in Nov 1932 to 33.1%. A series of In fighting among other parties and Nazi demands saw Hitler have to get a coalition to get appointed Chancellor in January 1933. Even after he was elected this only increased to 43.9 in the March election after several parties were banned.

Shortly all other parties were banned and by July 1933 it was a one party state. In the next election surprise surprise he got 90% of the vote.

Next the Nazi machine got rid of all possible avenues of dissent by removing any possible press freedom, trade unions were "replaced", Churches adopting anything but an extreme pro Nazi voice were persecuted and shipped to the first batch of concentration camps. Any Youth groups became Hitler Youth.

The judiciary was radically altered.

This is all before 1936. In the year of the Olympics everything was kept relatively calm, but once that passed it was open season. All avenues of possible dissent were destroyed and if you spoke up, no one heard from you again.

The Civil service was Nazi-fied by 1937 and with few exceptions dissenting voices were gone.

In reality the picture proves nothing of the kind; the watching Germans are not cheering, most are looking sullenly on and, of course, the very people who would have attempted to lead opposition, the political community activists, had been arrested and put into concentration camps. Indeed the left parties and trade union activists were the first targets of the Nazis in 1933, who understood the scaring effects of removing political opposition. Just one example to show this. The German Communist Party (KPD) was the subject of severe repression from the first moments of the new Nazi regime. After the Reichstag fire of 27 February 1933, over 10,000 KPD members or supporters were immediately arrested before the party was even officially banned.3 By the end of 1933 over 130,000 had been arrested and thrown into concentration camps and 2,500 murdered.4 During the Kristallnacht terror round-ups people knew that opposition led to the concentration camps, so it is no surprise that there was little active opposition. Yet there was resistance. According to a Gestapo summary 162,734 people were being held in 'protective custody' for political reasons in April 1939; a further 225,000 had been sentenced to prison terms of just under three years. Between 1933 and 1945 more than 3 million Germans had been in concentration camps or prison for political reasons; tens of thousands were executed or died from mistreatment.5 This was what could happen if you opposed the regime on central issues. But it also shows the opposition to Nazi politics. Goebbel's paper, Der Angriff, summed up the regime's terror against its anti-racist opponents: 'Criticism is permitted only to those who are not afraid of getting into a concentration camp'.6 Goldhagen makes absolutely no mention of these key factors.

It cannot be disputed that many Germans supported the regime until the end of the war. But beneath the surface of German society there were also currents of resistance, if not always consciously political. The German historian Detlev Peukert, who pioneered the study of German society during the Nazi era, called this phenomenon "everyday resistance." His research was based partly on the regular reports by the Gestapo and the SD on morale and public opinion, and on the "Reports on Germany" which were produced by the exiled SPD based on information from its underground network in Germany and which were acknowledged to be very well informed.

Opposition based on this widespread dissatisfaction usually took "passive" forms — absenteeism, malingering, spreading rumours, trading on the black market, hoarding, avoiding various forms of state service such as donations to Nazi causes. But sometimes it took more active forms, such as warning people about to be arrested, hiding them or helping them to escape, or turning a blind eye to oppositionist activities. Among the industrial working class, where the underground SPD and KPD networks were always active, there were frequent if short-lived strikes. These were generally tolerated, at least before the outbreak of war, provided the demands of the strikers were purely economic and not political.

"Hitler stood for at least some things they [German people] admired, and for many had become the symbol and embodiment of the national revival which the Third Reich had in many respects been perceived to accomplish."[1]

The myth was lent much credence by Hitler's huge successes in the regeneration of Germany's economy over just a few years, recovering it from what seemed like unredeemable circumstances. In 1932, one year before Hitler's rise to power, unemployment had been at over five and a half million,[2] but by 1938 Germany was producing at record levels, and unemployment was below 200,000 and real wages were up for the first time since authoritarianism.[3]

However, by around 1936 Albert Speer records that the Hitler Myth was under threat, with officials having to organise cheering crowds, presenting a stark contrasts with Hitler's spontaneous crowds of old. Certainly 1938 saw a rise in Hitler's popularity, which dipped sharply with the outbreak of the Second World War. Only the victories in the West during 1940 revived it, and even then the campaign against the Soviet Union led to a dramatic decline in Hitler's popularity.

 

[Ozymandias]

If you want to have an argument about whether Hitler was looooved by the Germans, or was haaaated by the Germans, I fail to see what it has to do with a draft pick. I believe everyone agrees he makes the villain list, whether he was looooved or whether he was haaated.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

If you want to have an argument about whether Hitler was looooved by the Germans, or was haaaated by the Germans, I fail to see what it has to do with a draft pick. I believe everyone agrees he makes the villain list, whether he was looooved or whether he was haaated.

How could someone be hated the world over, yet be loved and adored as their new god by the sheep like Germans who

Very, very few ...did not absolutely love Adolf Hitler.

My point is simple. "Very Very few" was a substantial part of the population, either those courageous enough to get shipped to concentration camps or the many who did what they could without risking their own lives.

 

[Ozymandias]

If you want to have an argument about whether Hitler was looooved by the Germans, or was haaaated by the Germans, I fail to see what it has to do with a draft pick. I believe everyone agrees he makes the villain list, whether he was looooved or whether he was haaated.

How could someone be hated the world over, yet be loved and adored as their new god by the sheep like Germans who

Very, very few ...did not absolutely love Adolf Hitler.

My point is simple. "Very Very few" was a substantial part of the population, either those courageous enough to get shipped to concentration camps or the many who did what they could without risking their own lives.

And therefore, you would have changed the draft pick, how?

 

[timschochet]

No, I made the point that very few Germans did not absolutely love Adolf Hitler and I will stand by that; it's an important point to make because it's the difference between Hitler and his main competitor for the title of greatest villain ever.

I don't know what sources JML is quoting. It's true that Hitler in the last free election did not receive a majority of the vote, but within one year after he was chancellor, the country was completely Nazified, and at this point there is no question in my mind that he had the vast support of the German populace, which he put back to work.

William Shirer was a journalist in Berlin and a hater of the Nazis. He wrote this in his Diary from March 1935, when Hitler publicly renounced the Versailles Treaty and threw off conscription:

"Enormous enthusiasm on March 17. All of Munich was out on the streets. You can force a people to sing, but you can't force them to sing with that kind of enthusiasm. I experienced the days of 1914 and I can only say, that the declaration of war didn’t make the same impression on me as the reception for Hitler on March 17. … "

In The Rise And Fall of The Third Reich Shirer documents in great detail the anti-Nazi movement which culminated in the assassin attempt in 1944. His main point was that the conspirators had NO support among the German people.

This from Ian Kershaw, Hitler biographer:

Wherever Hitler went people paid homage to him, showered him with flowers, waited for his appearance for hours, women were fainting on his sight, to touch the Fuhrer was a lifetime honor. The whole Germany was plastered with his images. The streets were full with marching bands of the SA and the Hitler Jugend, Germany was turned in one camp for basic training, everybody belonged to some Nazi organization and showed off his uniform.

and from Alexander Kimmel, a prominent Holocaust survivor:

Hitler projected an infinite power, power that only God can claim, and this was mesmerizing the German people. Power has innate erotic qualities that were amplified by Hitler's guttural voice, his screaming performances on the radio broadcasts, and his appeal to the primitive parts of man. Hitler had great contempt for the German Volk, and believed that they could be easily managed by playing on emotions with words and through clever propaganda: " One should guard against believing that great masses are more stupid than they are." ..."Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise...Particularly the broad masses of the people can be moved only by the power of speech. All great movements are popular movements, volcanic eruptions of human passions and emotional sentiments . A movement with great aims therefore must therefore be anxiously on its guard not to lose contact with the broad masses. The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and hence to the heart of the broad masses.

Hitler had a very close relationship with the German masses, he needed their adulation, admiration and acceptance. Hitler's repressed sexuality provided the tremendous energy drive when in front of the masses, the response and adulation gave him an emotional high; he lived for the glory. Hitler did not have a normal family life, he could not experience any joy or sorrow, he had no empathy for people, driven by his megalomania, paranoia and delusions, he needed the approval and adulation of the masses to dissolve his inner tensions, to confirm his bloated self-image.

The German people are not innocent; Hitler was not some dictator who took them over and made them live in fear of him; they loved him. He was the man they wanted. They chose him, to their everlasting shame.

 

[Doug B]

You guys are waiting on me. I had written up most of a pick in my last post, then suffered from "paralysis by analysis", and backed off. The pick I wanted was good, but not unassailable in that particular category. I think the direction I'm going in now gives me a stronger selection in a comparatively less-competitive category.

1.09 - Michelangelo, Artist (non-painter)

I'm conceiving of Michelangelo as a sculptor first, an then as an architect and a painter somwhere not far behind. While his Sistine Chapel frescos are obviously world-renowned and iconic, I feel that placement the Painter category would unfairly marginilize his equally iconic all-time sculptures such as La Pieta, David, and Moses (among others).

Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni (March 6, 1475 - February 18, 1564), commonly known as Michelangelo, was an Italian Renaissance painter, sculptor, architect, poet, and engineer. Despite making few forays beyond the arts, his versatility in the disciplines he took up was of such a high order that he is often considered a contender for the title of the archetypal Renaissance man, along with his rival and fellow Italian Leonardo da Vinci.

Michelangelo's output in every field during his long life was prodigious; when the sheer volume of correspondence, sketches, and reminiscences that survive is also taken into account, he is the best-documented artist of the 16th century. Two of his best-known works, the Pietà and David, were sculpted before he turned thirty. Despite his low opinion of painting, Michelangelo also created two of the most influential works in fresco in the history of Western art: the scenes from Genesis on the ceiling and The Last Judgment on the altar wall of the Sistine Chapel in Rome. Later in life he designed the dome of St. Peter's Basilica in the same city and revolutionised classical architecture with his use of the giant order of pilasters.

In a demonstration of Michelangelo's unique standing, he was the first Western artist whose biography was published while he was alive. Two biographies were published of him during his lifetime; one of them ... proposed that he was the pinnacle of all artistic achievement since the beginning of the Renaissance, a viewpoint that continued to have currency in art history for centuries. In his lifetime he was also often called Il Divino ("the divine one"). One of the qualities most admired by his contemporaries was his terribilità, a sense of awe-inspiring grandeur, and it was the attempts of subsequent artists to imitate Michelangelo's impassioned and highly personal style that resulted in the next major movement in Western art after the High Renaissance, Mannerism.

 

[timschochet]

DougB, what a wonderful pick. What an extraordinary genius this man was. Astonishing! The Pieta, which I have only seen in pictures, appears to be alive. Surely this is the greatest artistic genius who ever lived? I'll let our artist judge tell us (when we find him). There may be better painters (though even that is debatable,) but there are no better artists, IMO.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Yeah, the St. Crispen's speech is great, but compared to THIS inspiring speech, Henry V pales in comparison...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGUqd_M6Mg

Nothing tops this speech....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM6z8oljZEk...feature=related

 

[Abrantes]

Very interesting (and bold) pick. Obviously you have the flexibility of changing Michelangelo to the painter category later if you so choose, but picking his sculpture work over painting is definitely something I wasn't counting on. Great pick, naturally. Just curious to see if you keep him there.

 

[timschochet]

Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Einstein, Da Vinci- now we're getting somewhere. What extraordinary men these were, the greatest geniuses the human race has ever produced.

 

[mad sweeney]

Cool, I was really unsettled about swapping spots in the top ten just for expediencies sake. Should that be apostrophied for possessive? I'm really anal about apostrophes and their over/mis use.

I'm going to do a writeup now, pick forthcoming.

 

[larry_boy_44]

You guys are waiting on me. I had written up most of a pick in my last post, then suffered from "paralysis by analysis", and backed off. The pick I wanted was good, but not unassailable in that particular category. I think the direction I'm going in now gives me a stronger selection in a comparatively less-competitive category.

1.09 - Michelangelo, Artist (non-painter)

I'm conceiving of Michelangelo as a sculptor first, an then as an architect and a painter somwhere not far behind. While his Sistine Chapel frescos are obviously world-renowned and iconic, I feel that placement the Painter category would unfairly marginilize his equally iconic all-time sculptures such as La Pieta, David, and Moses (among others).

Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni (March 6, 1475 - February 18, 1564), commonly known as Michelangelo, was an Italian Renaissance painter, sculptor, architect, poet, and engineer. Despite making few forays beyond the arts, his versatility in the disciplines he took up was of such a high order that he is often considered a contender for the title of the archetypal Renaissance man, along with his rival and fellow Italian Leonardo da Vinci.

Michelangelo's output in every field during his long life was prodigious; when the sheer volume of correspondence, sketches, and reminiscences that survive is also taken into account, he is the best-documented artist of the 16th century. Two of his best-known works, the Pietà and David, were sculpted before he turned thirty. Despite his low opinion of painting, Michelangelo also created two of the most influential works in fresco in the history of Western art: the scenes from Genesis on the ceiling and The Last Judgment on the altar wall of the Sistine Chapel in Rome. Later in life he designed the dome of St. Peter's Basilica in the same city and revolutionised classical architecture with his use of the giant order of pilasters.

In a demonstration of Michelangelo's unique standing, he was the first Western artist whose biography was published while he was alive. Two biographies were published of him during his lifetime; one of them ... proposed that he was the pinnacle of all artistic achievement since the beginning of the Renaissance, a viewpoint that continued to have currency in art history for centuries. In his lifetime he was also often called Il Divino ("the divine one"). One of the qualities most admired by his contemporaries was his terribilità, a sense of awe-inspiring grandeur, and it was the attempts of subsequent artists to imitate Michelangelo's impassioned and highly personal style that resulted in the next major movement in Western art after the High Renaissance, Mannerism.

:crosses off the orange Ninja Turtle:I really gotta get going fast on my art picks, I only know 2 more artists in the whole of history!!!

WHY COULDN'T THERE HAVE BEEN 40 NINJA TURTLES?!?!?!

 

[Andy Dufresne]

WHY COULDN'T THERE HAVE BEEN 40 NINJA TURTLES?!?!?!

Because then there'd be no pizza left for the rest of us.

 

[larry_boy_44]

WHY COULDN'T THERE HAVE BEEN 40 NINJA TURTLES?!?!?!

Because then there'd be no pizza left for the rest of us.

good point...Still... 1/2 of my artist cheat sheet is gone!!

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Very interesting (and bold) pick. Obviously you have the flexibility of changing Michelangelo to the painter category later if you so choose, but picking his sculpture work over painting is definitely something I wasn't counting on. Great pick, naturally. Just curious to see if you keep him there.

He's much better in the sculpture category IMO (In fact #1 there as far as I'm concerned).

 

[Thorn]

Of the picks so far:1. Mario Kart- Sun Tzu: Ashamed to say I know little about this character2. Larry Boy 44 Jesus of Nazareth: A worthy pick3. Arsenal of Doom William Shakespeare - Would have been my pick had he lasted, great pick4. FUBAR Muhammad - Not sure how to feel about him here5. Acer FC Albert Einstein - Interesting he goes higher in the world draft than the American draft, but I think rightfully so6. Yankee23 Fan Adolf Hitler - I wouldn't have gone villain in round 1, but tops in the category for sure7. Thorn Christopher Columbus - Not sure; I hate the man, but there's no denying his importance8. DC Thunder Leonardo Da Vinci - Another very good pick.

Just read up on this thread today. My comments as well.I'm surprised Mario Kart has taken the grief he has over the Sun Tzu pick. Not that taking Sun Tzu #1 doesn't deserve criticism, but that pales in comparison to trying to call him a Leader instead of calling him Military or even Philosophy. If you can't tell on the first try what slot a guy fits in he isn't worth taking 1.1.I can agree that Shakespeare should probably have been the 1.1 based on domination of his category. Great pick by Arsenal at 1.3.I'd give Jesus the edge over Muhammad based on the implication in the name "Religious Figure". The wording entails to me that it includes his meaning and significance as a Religious Figure and not necessarily what he personally accomplished as a Religious Leader (which would be dwarfed by Muhammad IMHO). But I think Muhammad is close to Jesus in value, while no one is nearly as close to Shakespeare. Shakespeare would have been the value pick.I think Einstein is probably a 1st rounder but IMHO he should have been the 2nd person taken in his category.I'm only liking the DaVinci pick if he is used in the Wildcard slot. Maybe he can be argued to be the best painter, but I think there may be some others in that tier. And I don't buy an argument he's the undisputed top guy in any other slot, like Scientist. His brilliance is that he rates near (though not necessarily in) the top tier in multiple slots. Pigeonholing him as a painter is a terrible waste. I realize slots can be changed, but it should be pretty obvious what slot your 1st round pick goes into. Make him the Wildcard and he probably blows away any other Wildcard by a big margin. Maybe by as much value as Shakespeare has in the Playwright slot.Hitler I'm not surprised at the pick given the world view. Let's face it, he's the world's #1 villain as people perceive him. That said, there are other people (or at least one other person) who I think have done worse than Hitler, just it doesn't get discussed as frequently.

 

[mad sweeney]

I really didn't expect him to be here so I am tickled to see him left for me. I was very prepared to go deep back in time and across continents for my backup plan but I am going to stay Eurocentric and reasonably recent.

I tried to write my own bit but the first paragraphs of his Wiki page really say it all so I'll just paste it.

Sir Isaac Newton, FRS (4 January 1643 – 31 March 1727 [OS: 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727])[1] was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist, and theologian and one of the most influential men in human history. His Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, published in 1687, is considered to be the most influential book in the history of science, laying the groundwork for most of classical mechanics. In this work, Newton described universal gravitation and the three laws of motion which dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next three centuries. Newton showed that the motions of objects on Earth and of celestial bodies are governed by the same set of natural laws by demonstrating the consistency between Kepler's laws of planetary motion and his theory of gravitation, thus removing the last doubts about heliocentrism and advancing the scientific revolution.

In mechanics, Newton enunciated the principles of conservation of both momentum and angular momentum. In optics, he built the first practical reflecting telescope[5] and developed a theory of colour based on the observation that a prism decomposes white light into the many colours which form the visible spectrum. He also formulated an empirical law of cooling and studied the speed of sound.

In mathematics, Newton shares the credit with Gottfried Leibniz for the development of the differential and integral calculus. He also demonstrated the generalised binomial theorem, developed the so-called "Newton's method" for approximating the zeroes of a function, and contributed to the study of power series.

Newton's stature among scientists remains at the very top rank, as demonstrated by a 2005 survey of scientists in Britain's Royal Society asking who had the greater effect on the history of science, Newton or Albert Einstein. Newton was deemed the more influential.[6]

Newton was also highly religious (though unorthodox), producing more work on Biblical hermeneutics than the natural science he is remembered for today

I promise my writeups will be better in the future but there truly so much about this man whose simple child's story of being bonked on the head by a falling apple and thus "discovering" gravity that I don't even know where to begin. So much that we take for granted wasn't until Newton figured it out and explained it.

I like this quote from Alexander Pope which sums him up in two lines.

Nature and nature's laws lay hid in night;

God said "Let Newton be" and all was light.

ETA: Pick 1.10 Scientist

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

WHY COULDN'T THERE HAVE BEEN 40 NINJA TURTLES?!?!?!

Because then there'd be no pizza left for the rest of us.

good point...Still... 1/2 of my artist cheat sheet is gone!!

If it makes you feel any better Larry, I suspect you are safe on the other two for a while.

 

[Thorn]

Cool, I was really unsettled about swapping spots in the top ten just for expediencies sake. Should that be apostrophied for possessive? I'm really anal about apostrophes and their over/mis use.I'm going to do a writeup now, pick forthcoming.

Expediency's sake.

 

[thatguy]

We all agree on the point that he lived. However, I hope you're not using "he created all existence" as a basis for the pick.

not seriously...although it is a small part of my argument that many people believe he did...

I think it's a fair argument that Larry is making here. To us non-religious, Jesus is just a man. And history suggests a fine and influential and important man at that. But to Christians, he is more than a man, and let's face it... there are a lot of Christians in the world. I think because to so many the divinity of Christ is considered a reality, it should absolutely be considered. Obviously not as an absolute, but as a very integral part of the legend that accompanies the man.

 

[mad sweeney]

Cool, I was really unsettled about swapping spots in the top ten just for expediencies sake. Should that be apostrophied for possessive? I'm really anal about apostrophes and their over/mis use.I'm going to do a writeup now, pick forthcoming.

Expediency's sake.

Thanks, I don't know why I pluralized it and explains why it looked off. Also a really simple solution that I am a bit embarrassed to have missed, leftover Guiness from yesterday may play a role.

 

[larry_boy_44]

WHY COULDN'T THERE HAVE BEEN 40 NINJA TURTLES?!?!?!

Because then there'd be no pizza left for the rest of us.

good point...Still... 1/2 of my artist cheat sheet is gone!!

If it makes you feel any better Larry, I suspect you are safe on the other two for a while.

they weren't that great of Ninja Turtles either...

 

[krista4]

I really didn't expect him to be here so I am tickled to see him left for me. I was very prepared to go deep back in time and across continents for my backup plan but I am going to stay Eurocentric and reasonably recent.

I tried to write my own bit but the first paragraphs of his Wiki page really say it all so I'll just paste it.

Sir Isaac Newton, FRS (4 January 1643 – 31 March 1727 [OS: 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727])[1] was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist, and theologian and one of the most influential men in human history. His Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, published in 1687, is considered to be the most influential book in the history of science, laying the groundwork for most of classical mechanics. In this work, Newton described universal gravitation and the three laws of motion which dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next three centuries. Newton showed that the motions of objects on Earth and of celestial bodies are governed by the same set of natural laws by demonstrating the consistency between Kepler's laws of planetary motion and his theory of gravitation, thus removing the last doubts about heliocentrism and advancing the scientific revolution.

In mechanics, Newton enunciated the principles of conservation of both momentum and angular momentum. In optics, he built the first practical reflecting telescope[5] and developed a theory of colour based on the observation that a prism decomposes white light into the many colours which form the visible spectrum. He also formulated an empirical law of cooling and studied the speed of sound.

In mathematics, Newton shares the credit with Gottfried Leibniz for the development of the differential and integral calculus. He also demonstrated the generalised binomial theorem, developed the so-called "Newton's method" for approximating the zeroes of a function, and contributed to the study of power series.

Newton's stature among scientists remains at the very top rank, as demonstrated by a 2005 survey of scientists in Britain's Royal Society asking who had the greater effect on the history of science, Newton or Albert Einstein. Newton was deemed the more influential.[6]

Newton was also highly religious (though unorthodox), producing more work on Biblical hermeneutics than the natural science he is remembered for today

I promise my writeups will be better in the future but there truly so much about this man whose simple child's story of being bonked on the head by a falling apple and thus "discovering" gravity that I don't even know where to begin. So much that we take for granted wasn't until Newton figured it out and explained it.

I like this quote from Alexander Pope which sums him up in two lines.

Nature and nature's laws lay hid in night;

God said "Let Newton be" and all was light.

I wouldn't have expected him to be there at this point, either. Great pick. :X

 

[thatguy]

I really didn't expect him to be here so I am tickled to see him left for me. I was very prepared to go deep back in time and across continents for my backup plan but I am going to stay Eurocentric and reasonably recent.

I tried to write my own bit but the first paragraphs of his Wiki page really say it all so I'll just paste it.

Sir Isaac Newton, FRS (4 January 1643 – 31 March 1727 [OS: 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727])[1] was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist, and theologian and one of the most influential men in human history. His Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, published in 1687, is considered to be the most influential book in the history of science, laying the groundwork for most of classical mechanics. In this work, Newton described universal gravitation and the three laws of motion which dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next three centuries. Newton showed that the motions of objects on Earth and of celestial bodies are governed by the same set of natural laws by demonstrating the consistency between Kepler's laws of planetary motion and his theory of gravitation, thus removing the last doubts about heliocentrism and advancing the scientific revolution.

In mechanics, Newton enunciated the principles of conservation of both momentum and angular momentum. In optics, he built the first practical reflecting telescope[5] and developed a theory of colour based on the observation that a prism decomposes white light into the many colours which form the visible spectrum. He also formulated an empirical law of cooling and studied the speed of sound.

In mathematics, Newton shares the credit with Gottfried Leibniz for the development of the differential and integral calculus. He also demonstrated the generalised binomial theorem, developed the so-called "Newton's method" for approximating the zeroes of a function, and contributed to the study of power series.

Newton's stature among scientists remains at the very top rank, as demonstrated by a 2005 survey of scientists in Britain's Royal Society asking who had the greater effect on the history of science, Newton or Albert Einstein. Newton was deemed the more influential.[6]

Newton was also highly religious (though unorthodox), producing more work on Biblical hermeneutics than the natural science he is remembered for today

I promise my writeups will be better in the future but there truly so much about this man whose simple child's story of being bonked on the head by a falling apple and thus "discovering" gravity that I don't even know where to begin. So much that we take for granted wasn't until Newton figured it out and explained it.

I like this quote from Alexander Pope which sums him up in two lines.

Nature and nature's laws lay hid in night;

God said "Let Newton be" and all was light.

I wouldn't have expected him to be there at this point, either. Great pick. :X

Agreed. Even though his model of the Universe is flawed, and much of Einstein's work is the reason we know this, I still consider Newton to be the top Scientist, ahead of Einstein. The fact that we used his model for as long as we did, and that it is still used and in fact very accurate for describing most systems, is incredible.

 

[Abrantes]

Very interesting (and bold) pick. Obviously you have the flexibility of changing Michelangelo to the painter category later if you so choose, but picking his sculpture work over painting is definitely something I wasn't counting on. Great pick, naturally. Just curious to see if you keep him there.

He's much better in the sculpture category IMO (In fact #1 there as far as I'm concerned).

I disagree with the #1 claim, but you can certainly argue that he distinguishes himself from the pack far more as a sculptor, rather than a painter.

 

[Abrantes]

I really didn't expect him to be here so I am tickled to see him left for me. I was very prepared to go deep back in time and across continents for my backup plan but I am going to stay Eurocentric and reasonably recent.

I tried to write my own bit but the first paragraphs of his Wiki page really say it all so I'll just paste it.

Sir Isaac Newton, FRS (4 January 1643 – 31 March 1727 [OS: 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727])[1] was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist, and theologian and one of the most influential men in human history. His Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, published in 1687, is considered to be the most influential book in the history of science, laying the groundwork for most of classical mechanics. In this work, Newton described universal gravitation and the three laws of motion which dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next three centuries. Newton showed that the motions of objects on Earth and of celestial bodies are governed by the same set of natural laws by demonstrating the consistency between Kepler's laws of planetary motion and his theory of gravitation, thus removing the last doubts about heliocentrism and advancing the scientific revolution.

In mechanics, Newton enunciated the principles of conservation of both momentum and angular momentum. In optics, he built the first practical reflecting telescope[5] and developed a theory of colour based on the observation that a prism decomposes white light into the many colours which form the visible spectrum. He also formulated an empirical law of cooling and studied the speed of sound.

In mathematics, Newton shares the credit with Gottfried Leibniz for the development of the differential and integral calculus. He also demonstrated the generalised binomial theorem, developed the so-called "Newton's method" for approximating the zeroes of a function, and contributed to the study of power series.

Newton's stature among scientists remains at the very top rank, as demonstrated by a 2005 survey of scientists in Britain's Royal Society asking who had the greater effect on the history of science, Newton or Albert Einstein. Newton was deemed the more influential.[6]

Newton was also highly religious (though unorthodox), producing more work on Biblical hermeneutics than the natural science he is remembered for today

I promise my writeups will be better in the future but there truly so much about this man whose simple child's story of being bonked on the head by a falling apple and thus "discovering" gravity that I don't even know where to begin. So much that we take for granted wasn't until Newton figured it out and explained it.

I like this quote from Alexander Pope which sums him up in two lines.

Nature and nature's laws lay hid in night;

God said "Let Newton be" and all was light.

I wouldn't have expected him to be there at this point, either. Great pick.

Agreed. Even though his model of the Universe is flawed, and much of Einstein's work is the reason we know this, I still consider Newton to be the top Scientist, ahead of Einstein. The fact that we used his model for as long as we did, and that it is still used and in fact very accurate for describing most systems, is incredible.

There he goes. Figured he wouldn't last 'til the end of the round. Fantastic pick.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Very interesting (and bold) pick. Obviously you have the flexibility of changing Michelangelo to the painter category later if you so choose, but picking his sculpture work over painting is definitely something I wasn't counting on. Great pick, naturally. Just curious to see if you keep him there.

He's much better in the sculpture category IMO (In fact #1 there as far as I'm concerned).

I disagree with the #1 claim, but you can certainly argue that he distinguishes himself from the pack far more as a sculptor, rather than a painter.

I don't think it's a slam dunk #1, but to my mind he has 2 of the top 5 sculptures made by human hands (The Pieta & David), and numerous others that are among the best.

 

[Ozymandias]

I really didn't expect him to be here so I am tickled to see him left for me. I was very prepared to go deep back in time and across continents for my backup plan but I am going to stay Eurocentric and reasonably recent.

I tried to write my own bit but the first paragraphs of his Wiki page really say it all so I'll just paste it.

Sir Isaac Newton, FRS (4 January 1643 – 31 March 1727 [OS: 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727])[1] was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist, and theologian and one of the most influential men in human history. His Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, published in 1687, is considered to be the most influential book in the history of science, laying the groundwork for most of classical mechanics. In this work, Newton described universal gravitation and the three laws of motion which dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next three centuries. Newton showed that the motions of objects on Earth and of celestial bodies are governed by the same set of natural laws by demonstrating the consistency between Kepler's laws of planetary motion and his theory of gravitation, thus removing the last doubts about heliocentrism and advancing the scientific revolution.

In mechanics, Newton enunciated the principles of conservation of both momentum and angular momentum. In optics, he built the first practical reflecting telescope[5] and developed a theory of colour based on the observation that a prism decomposes white light into the many colours which form the visible spectrum. He also formulated an empirical law of cooling and studied the speed of sound.

In mathematics, Newton shares the credit with Gottfried Leibniz for the development of the differential and integral calculus. He also demonstrated the generalised binomial theorem, developed the so-called "Newton's method" for approximating the zeroes of a function, and contributed to the study of power series.

Newton's stature among scientists remains at the very top rank, as demonstrated by a 2005 survey of scientists in Britain's Royal Society asking who had the greater effect on the history of science, Newton or Albert Einstein. Newton was deemed the more influential.[6]

Newton was also highly religious (though unorthodox), producing more work on Biblical hermeneutics than the natural science he is remembered for today

I promise my writeups will be better in the future but there truly so much about this man whose simple child's story of being bonked on the head by a falling apple and thus "discovering" gravity that I don't even know where to begin. So much that we take for granted wasn't until Newton figured it out and explained it.

I like this quote from Alexander Pope which sums him up in two lines.

Nature and nature's laws lay hid in night;

God said "Let Newton be" and all was light.

I wouldn't have expected him to be there at this point, either. Great pick.

Agreed. Even though his model of the Universe is flawed, and much of Einstein's work is the reason we know this, I still consider Newton to be the top Scientist, ahead of Einstein. The fact that we used his model for as long as we did, and that it is still used and in fact very accurate for describing most systems, is incredible.

There he goes. Figured he wouldn't last 'til the end of the round. Fantastic pick.

Great pick. Virtually nobody else could be thought of as having made two discoveries which were as significant. Although, as was mentioned above calculus was contemporaneous with Leibniz. Incredible mind, and only Einstein is in the same ballpark.

 

[Big Rocks]

My pick of Newton got sniped, so I'm working on my backup. Post coming shortly

 

[GTBilly]

My pick of Newton got sniped, so I'm working on my backup. Post coming shortly

Is it a breadbox????

 

[thatguy]

This draft is incredibly top heavy, I'm coming to realize. It seems there is a big ten or so, and then a dropoff. Most of the giants, from my board anyway, are gone. It doesn't concern me, though, because a clear cut and obvious number one is no more important in the end than a barely number one.

 

[mad sweeney]

This draft is incredibly top heavy, I'm coming to realize. It seems there is a big ten or so, and then a dropoff. Most of the giants, from my board anyway, are gone. It doesn't concern me, though, because a clear cut and obvious number one is no more important in the end than a barely number one.

True, and I was prepared to choose between an almost #1 and a #3 in their respective categories. But I simply couldn't resist the only guy that would make Einstein feel like he wasn't the smartest guy in the room.