World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

[Yankee23Fan]

Interesting.

 

[Thorn]

As Bach is to Yankee23Fan, so is Joyce to me. I know, he's supposed to be the greatest. I tried to read Ulysses. I put it down after about 40 pages. A friend of mine, an English major, told me I needed a companion guide to understand it. I replied, "why should a novel need a companion guide to understand it?" No good answer.What's wrong with a plot? What's wrong with a driving narrative? Is it really a novel if you can't make heads or tails out of what you're reading? Or, as part of me strongly suspects, is this just the urinal again except this time in book form?

Have you tried Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man?

Don't even go there. Start with Dubliners.

You think so? I would say Portrait, Dubliners, Finnegan's, Ulysses in increasing order of difficulty.

 

[timschochet]

As Bach is to Yankee23Fan, so is Joyce to me. I know, he's supposed to be the greatest. I tried to read Ulysses. I put it down after about 40 pages. A friend of mine, an English major, told me I needed a companion guide to understand it. I replied, "why should a novel need a companion guide to understand it?" No good answer.What's wrong with a plot? What's wrong with a driving narrative? Is it really a novel if you can't make heads or tails out of what you're reading? Or, as part of me strongly suspects, is this just the urinal again except this time in book form?

Have you tried Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man?

If you decide to eat at a tremendously expensive restaurant, and your dinner turns out to be TERRIBLE, do you return in order to sample something different? I don't. Too many good other restaurants out there to take another chance. Maybe if someone wants to buy the meal, I'll try it again...someday.

 

[Thorn]

Ok, I'm out until tomorrow. PM sent to DCThunder.

Once upon a time, and a very good time it was there was a moocow coming down along the road...

 

[thatguy]

So high am on T'sai Lun that I was considering him for my next pick, even though I already have Gutenberg.

 

[Ozymandias]

So psyched right now. I had thought of three different people for my first round pick, and now I'm going to get all three of them. Though, if had still been here I would have had a big time debate. As it is, I don't..

3.07 James Joyce, Novel/Short Story

Ulysses. Dubliners. Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. Finnegan's Wake.

Ulysses is often cited as the greatest novel of all time. The others just as often rate near the top of any "100 Greatest" you might come across. I happen to think that Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is one of best classics. I think he is the greatest author of all time, and I would put Tolstoy a close #1a to his #1. :giddy:

Frankly, this is an abominable pick, IMHO. He is the most overrated writer ever, and is only rated so highly because the literary priesthood love obscurity and convoluted works, because if not, what need would we have for the literary priesthood? Ulysses is drivel, and only good because Joyce used a style which had not been used before. Please don't get me started, otherwise I'll tell you what I really think of James Joyce.

He was #1 on my list. His writing is the foundation on which the rest of 20th century lituratue is built, even though not many people actually read it (comparitively).

As Bach is to Yankee23Fan, so is Joyce to me.

I know, he's supposed to be the greatest. I tried to read Ulysses. I put it down after about 40 pages. A friend of mine, an English major, told me I needed a companion guide to understand it. I replied, "why should a novel need a companion guide to understand it?" No good answer.

What's wrong with a plot? What's wrong with a driving narrative? Is it really a novel if you can't make heads or tails out of what you're reading? Or, as part of me strongly suspects, is this just the urinal again except this time in book form?

Have you tried Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man?

I did. Frankly, I preferred Portrait of the Artist as a Young Dog.

 

[timschochet]

Part of the reason that Ulysses is so famous is because it was banned. In the United States, a famous court trial in the early 1930's separated literature from pornography. Great defenders of free speech spoke on behalf of Joyce, and the Catholic Church damned him, and the whole thing was very famous. It became a cause celebre. But this has no bearing on the quality of the book.

It reminds me of the film, The Last Temptation of Christ. At the time it came out, lots of movie critics felt compelled to praise that film, because it was being protested everywhere by religious people. It became an issue of free speech. I went to see it for the same reason, though this subject matter normally would not interest me. And it was an awful movie.

 

[Mario Kart]

1:00 pm Eastern on March 21st

8. DC Thunder

9. Doug B

10. Mad Sweeney

11. Big Rocks

12. higgins

13. John Madden's Lunchbox

14. Usual21

15. thatguy

16. Andy Dufresne

17. Herbert The Hippo

18. Bobbylayne

19. Mister CIA

20. Abrantes

 

[Ozymandias]

Part of the reason that Ulysses is so famous is because it was banned. In the United States, a famous court trial in the early 1930's separated literature from pornography. Great defenders of free speech spoke on behalf of Joyce, and the Catholic Church damned him, and the whole thing was very famous. It became a cause celebre. But this has no bearing on the quality of the book.

It reminds me of the film, The Last Temptation of Christ. At the time it came out, lots of movie critics felt compelled to praise that film, because it was being protested everywhere by religious people. It became an issue of free speech. I went to see it for the same reason, though this subject matter normally would not interest me. And it was an awful movie.

That, and its obscurity. When the American writer Max Eastman asked Joyce why the book (Finnegan's Wake) was written in a very difficult style, Joyce replied: "To keep the critics busy for three hundred years."You can see why critics and the literary priesthood love it.

 

[timschochet]

30 pages in already, the clock hasn't even started, and we're only still towards the top of round 3 of 22.

Over under on 200 pages?

 

[timschochet]

Question about T'sai Lun, Sun Tzu, and others:

If the Chinese were so far ahead of the rest of mankind in technological developments, why didn't they conquer the world? Why, by the 19th century, was Europe the masters of technology and China just another nation ripe for conquest? I've never understood this.

 

[ianfitzy]

Question about T'sai Lun, Sun Tzu, and others:If the Chinese were so far ahead of the rest of mankind in technological developments, why didn't they conquer the world? Why, by the 19th century, was Europe the masters of technology and China just another nation ripe for conquest? I've never understood this.

China took a isolationist policy for most, if not all of its history.

 

[timschochet]

Question about T'sai Lun, Sun Tzu, and others:If the Chinese were so far ahead of the rest of mankind in technological developments, why didn't they conquer the world? Why, by the 19th century, was Europe the masters of technology and China just another nation ripe for conquest? I've never understood this.

China took a isolationist policy for most, if not all of its history.

I know. Why?

 

[Ozymandias]

Question about T'sai Lun, Sun Tzu, and others:If the Chinese were so far ahead of the rest of mankind in technological developments, why didn't they conquer the world? Why, by the 19th century, was Europe the masters of technology and China just another nation ripe for conquest? I've never understood this.

Don't know exactly, but two thoughts come to mind. The first is that China was so big, it was hard to control. In fact, most of the time the Imperial power was putting down rebellions. The second is that for millennia they were governed by a civil service. The civil service is not expansionist; it merely wants to protect its privileges by undercutting internal rivals. By the way, as an addendum to that, they did not foster innovation. Whereas the national conflicts in Europe fueled innovation.

 

[Orange Crush]

Question about T'sai Lun, Sun Tzu, and others:If the Chinese were so far ahead of the rest of mankind in technological developments, why didn't they conquer the world? Why, by the 19th century, was Europe the masters of technology and China just another nation ripe for conquest? I've never understood this.

I've always thought that for a millenia, both ... crap, my explanation is going to entail a good amount of my thoughts on some of the inventors chosen. Oh well, I guess I'll try to add them into my explanation of my rankings when it's all said and done.

 

[Abrantes]

 

[FUBAR]

So psyched right now. I had thought of three different people for my first round pick, and now I'm going to get all three of them. Though, if had still been here I would have had a big time debate. As it is, I don't..

3.07 James Joyce, Novel/Short Story

Ulysses. Dubliners. Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. Finnegan's Wake.

Ulysses is often cited as the greatest novel of all time. The others just as often rate near the top of any "100 Greatest" you might come across. I happen to think that Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is one of best classics. I think he is the greatest author of all time, and I would put Tolstoy a close #1a to his #1. :giddy:

Frankly, this is an abominable pick, IMHO. He is the most overrated writer ever, and is only rated so highly because the literary priesthood love obscurity and convoluted works, because if not, what need would we have for the literary priesthood? Ulysses is drivel, and only good because Joyce used a style which had not been used before. Please don't get me started, otherwise I'll tell you what I really think of James Joyce.

He was #1 on my list. His writing is the foundation on which the rest of 20th century lituratue is built, even though not many people actually read it (comparitively).

I guess it's a good thing I'm not rating this category, Joyce would be near the bottom. He just seems like a pretentious snob who thinks he's smarter than he actually is. I won't go so far as to call it drivel, but there are a lot better books out there.

 

[Shakespeare]

A friend is one that knows you as you are, understands where you have been, accepts what you have become, and still, gently allows you to grow.

Mr. Shakespeare must have a keen radar sense to detect his name and grace us with his presence.

Ay, marry, is't,But to my mind, though I am native here

And to the manner born, it is a custom

More honor'd in the breach than the observance,

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

As Bach is to Yankee23Fan, so is Joyce to me.

I know, he's supposed to be the greatest. I tried to read Ulysses. I put it down after about 40 pages. A friend of mine, an English major, told me I needed a companion guide to understand it. I replied, "why should a novel need a companion guide to understand it?" No good answer.

What's wrong with a plot? What's wrong with a driving narrative? Is it really a novel if you can't make heads or tails out of what you're reading? Or, as part of me strongly suspects, is this just the urinal again except this time in book form?

Have you tried Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man?

Don't even go there. Start with Dubliners.

You think so? I would say Portrait, Dubliners, Finnegan's, Ulysses in increasing order of difficulty.

I think Dubliner's is the easiest to digest since none of the individual sotries are that long. Plus The Dead is one of the finest short stories ever written IMO. I haven't studied this in a while, but I seem to recall that the stories in Dubliners are actually scenes that were taken out of Portrait. After that I would say Portrait, then Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake in that order.

 

[Ozymandias]

A friend is one that knows you as you are, understands where you have been, accepts what you have become, and still, gently allows you to grow.

Mr. Shakespeare must have a keen radar sense to detect his name and grace us with his presence.

Ay, marry, is't,But to my mind, though I am native here

And to the manner born, it is a custom

More honor'd in the breach than the observance,

GOWER

Why, the enemy is loud. You hear him all night.

FLUELLEN

If the enemy is an ### and a fool and a prating coxcomb, is

it meet, think you, that we should also, look you, be an ###

and a fool and a prating coxcomb, in your own conscience,

now?

GOWER

I will speak lower.

FLUELLEN

I pray you and beseech you that you will.

Shakespeare being censored by FBG's

 

[timschochet]

A friend is one that knows you as you are, understands where you have been, accepts what you have become, and still, gently allows you to grow.

Mr. Shakespeare must have a keen radar sense to detect his name and grace us with his presence.

Ay, marry, is't,But to my mind, though I am native here

And to the manner born, it is a custom

More honor'd in the breach than the observance,

Got any good quotes for the tragedy I'm witnessing in college basketball right now? My Bruins are getting killed! Surely the Bard knows something that will make me feel a little better...

 

[thatguy]

As Bach is to Yankee23Fan, so is Joyce to me.

I know, he's supposed to be the greatest. I tried to read Ulysses. I put it down after about 40 pages. A friend of mine, an English major, told me I needed a companion guide to understand it. I replied, "why should a novel need a companion guide to understand it?" No good answer.

What's wrong with a plot? What's wrong with a driving narrative? Is it really a novel if you can't make heads or tails out of what you're reading? Or, as part of me strongly suspects, is this just the urinal again except this time in book form?

Have you tried Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man?

Don't even go there. Start with Dubliners.

You think so? I would say Portrait, Dubliners, Finnegan's, Ulysses in increasing order of difficulty.

I think Dubliner's is the easiest to digest since none of the individual sotries are that long. Plus The Dead is one of the finest short stories ever written IMO. I haven't studied this in a while, but I seem to recall that the stories in Dubliners are actually scenes that were taken out of Portrait. After that I would say Portrait, then Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake in that order.

I love The Dead and the fact that the main character and I share the same first name.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

So psyched right now. I had thought of three different people for my first round pick, and now I'm going to get all three of them. Though, if had still been here I would have had a big time debate. As it is, I don't..

3.07 James Joyce, Novel/Short Story

Ulysses. Dubliners. Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. Finnegan's Wake.

Ulysses is often cited as the greatest novel of all time. The others just as often rate near the top of any "100 Greatest" you might come across. I happen to think that Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is one of best classics. I think he is the greatest author of all time, and I would put Tolstoy a close #1a to his #1. :giddy:

Frankly, this is an abominable pick, IMHO. He is the most overrated writer ever, and is only rated so highly because the literary priesthood love obscurity and convoluted works, because if not, what need would we have for the literary priesthood? Ulysses is drivel, and only good because Joyce used a style which had not been used before. Please don't get me started, otherwise I'll tell you what I really think of James Joyce.

He was #1 on my list. His writing is the foundation on which the rest of 20th century lituratue is built, even though not many people actually read it (comparitively).

I guess it's a good thing I'm not rating this category, Joyce would be near the bottom. He just seems like a pretentious snob who thinks he's smarter than he actually is. I won't go so far as to call it drivel, but there are a lot better books out there.

Yeah, Joyce is going to drive people in pretty polarized camps like the guy I took in the GAD. Knowing what I do about our judge I think Thorn will probably make out really well in the rankings though.

 

[thatguy]

So psyched right now. I had thought of three different people for my first round pick, and now I'm going to get all three of them. Though, if had still been here I would have had a big time debate. As it is, I don't..

3.07 James Joyce, Novel/Short Story

Ulysses. Dubliners. Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. Finnegan's Wake.

Ulysses is often cited as the greatest novel of all time. The others just as often rate near the top of any "100 Greatest" you might come across. I happen to think that Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is one of best classics. I think he is the greatest author of all time, and I would put Tolstoy a close #1a to his #1. :giddy:

Frankly, this is an abominable pick, IMHO. He is the most overrated writer ever, and is only rated so highly because the literary priesthood love obscurity and convoluted works, because if not, what need would we have for the literary priesthood? Ulysses is drivel, and only good because Joyce used a style which had not been used before. Please don't get me started, otherwise I'll tell you what I really think of James Joyce.

He was #1 on my list. His writing is the foundation on which the rest of 20th century lituratue is built, even though not many people actually read it (comparitively).

I guess it's a good thing I'm not rating this category, Joyce would be near the bottom. He just seems like a pretentious snob who thinks he's smarter than he actually is. I won't go so far as to call it drivel, but there are a lot better books out there.

Yeah, Joyce is going to drive people in pretty polarized camps like the guy I took in the GAD. Knowing what I do about our judge I think Thorn will probably make out really well in the rankings though.

Pretty sure Joyce will be in her top 3, as he absolutely should be. Top 5 at the very worst.

 

[flysack]

When the American writer Max Eastman asked Joyce why the book (Finnegan's Wake) was written in a very difficult style, Joyce replied: "To keep the critics busy for three hundred years."

You can see why critics and the literary priesthood love it.

I'm sure Joyce was being 100% serious too. He was never known for humor.I find the Joyce hatred in here hilarious. It's like listening to a bunch of plebeians whine and moan about politics.

"I don't understand. I don't get it. He must suck because I don't get it. Why does he have to be so difficult?"

Here's a more substantial argument for Joyce being #1. I'll leave it at this too, because I suspect some fiery arguments will arise. So, my spiel --

Joyce set the foundation for all twentieth century fiction. Ask any serious writer today and they'll always cite Joyce (among others) as one of their influences, if not directly then through someone else. No one has been more influential, more innovative, or more comprehensive. The dominant discussion of literature marks the moderns as the pinnacle of the novel form, after that the pomos were stuck playing games in the frame of the portrait (or the margins of the page, if you prefer that metaphor, I like "the frame of the portrait" because it references what H--------r said about art). However, the portrait was always the moderns.

Most modern studies branch them into two camps, represented by the best writer of each.

One was --------, an acquaintance of Joyce, who sought to reduce the world to silence by brilliantly "deconstructing" it bit by bit in his narratives. By such reduction, he got to the essence of what it means to be human.

The other camp sought to throw the entire world up on the canvas to capture every human emotion possible in one grand showing. Most say only one writer ever accomplished this: James Joyce in Ulysses. Hence why Ulysses is almost unanimously held as the best novel ever written. It was so effing good, it threw subsequent writers into fits as what the hell was left to write about. There's accounts of writers who actually quit writing novels because they thought the form was done after Joyce. Some say XXXXX's 1973 novel XXXXXX was the answer everyone was looking for. I disagree, but that's a whole other argument.

Added to this accomplishment is other incredible works of fiction by Joyce, including the much argued Finnegan's Wake, where Joyce spent 17 years inventing his own medley language to express what he wanted to say. Some say the whole thing is a joke. If so, that's some labor for a joke. They may be right. I know I've laughed my butt off thinking about it. I also know Finnegan's Wake is wonderful to read. Some of the lines are comic gold, like - "America is Jung, and much Freudian of itself."

As for short stories, Dubliners is also considered by many to be one of the top 5 short story collections ever published. Araby is one of the most anthologized short stories ever. It's still used to teach the short story form to creative writing students.

I can't see anyone else being the #1 novelist/short story writer. Joyce was a master of both, and his novels were so good many believe his work was the beginning of the end of the very form - indeed, this is why some believe Finnegan's Wake is so idiosyncratic: Joyce had already pushed the novel to its limit with Ulysses, so he turned to inventing his own language and deconstructing the novel's linear structure in order to challenge himself (also, in this manner, Joyce anticipated a great deal of the best feminist "narratives" of the late 20th century). In other words, Joyce was trying to invent a new narrative form.

Joyce is clearly the #1 novelist/short story writer. I say that despite personally preferring the #2 writer on my list, much the way I prefer one Russian giant over another. I still know who is the best though. It's Joyce.

[edit: ack, I just noticed another potential spotlight. Edited]

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Pretty sure Joyce will be in her top 3, as he absolutely should be. Top 5 at the very worst.

She should rank him 9th just to spite Thorn for pissing all over XXXXXXXX in the GAD.

 

[Shakespeare]

So psyched right now. I had thought of three different people for my first round pick, and now I'm going to get all three of them. Though, if had still been here I would have had a big time debate. As it is, I don't..

3.07 James Joyce, Novel/Short Story

Ulysses. Dubliners. Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. Finnegan's Wake.

Ulysses is often cited as the greatest novel of all time. The others just as often rate near the top of any "100 Greatest" you might come across. I happen to think that Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is one of best classics. I think he is the greatest author of all time, and I would put Tolstoy a close #1a to his #1. :giddy:

Frankly, this is an abominable pick, IMHO. He is the most overrated writer ever, and is only rated so highly because the literary priesthood love obscurity and convoluted works, because if not, what need would we have for the literary priesthood? Ulysses is drivel, and only good because Joyce used a style which had not been used before. Please don't get me started, otherwise I'll tell you what I really think of James Joyce.

To offend and judge are distinct offices,And of opposed natures.

 

[flysack]

I do find it interesting that Thorn is so high on Joyce yet so low on XXXXX.

That is odd. The inspiration for XXXX's stream-of-conscious narration was Joyce. XXXXXX worshiped him. There's even a great story about how a young XXXXX traveled to Europe, and when in Paris, specifically sought out Joyce. Finally he saw him sitting at a cafe reading the morning paper, and XXXXXX so in awe and so nervous, that he turned around without even introducing himself.[edited out the spotlighting - stop tempting me thatguy!]

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I do find it interesting that Thorn is so high on Joyce yet so low on XXXXXXXX.

Careful, there's a good possibility he will be drafted in this draft. In fact IMO he wouldn't rank much lower than where Thorn put him in the GAD.

 

[Mario Kart]

I know it was later at night but very little talk about my Geoffrey Chaucer pick.

He made the transition to the English language in literature. That is big.

 

[flysack]

I know it was later at night but very little talk about my Geoffrey Chaucer pick.

He made the transition to the English language in literature. That is big.

He made it ok to write in "the vernacular" of English, yes. Big for English, but not that great worldwide. Also, from memory, you still have Beowulf in Old English before him, and XXXXXX Tristan. Both were taken very seriously long before Chaucer came around. I have Chaucer in the bottom 15, if that. Lucky for you, I'm not the judge here.

 

[Ozymandias]

A friend is one that knows you as you are, understands where you have been, accepts what you have become, and still, gently allows you to grow.

Mr. Shakespeare must have a keen radar sense to detect his name and grace us with his presence.

Ay, marry, is't,But to my mind, though I am native here

And to the manner born, it is a custom

More honor'd in the breach than the observance,

Got any good quotes for the tragedy I'm witnessing in college basketball right now? My Bruins are getting killed! Surely the Bard knows something that will make me feel a little better...

"No, I will weep no more. In such a nightTo shut me out! Pour on; I will endure.

In such a night as this!"

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

I know it was later at night but very little talk about my Geoffrey Chaucer pick.

He made the transition to the English language in literature. That is big.

He made it ok to write in "the vernacular" of English, yes. Big for English, but not that great worldwide. Also, from memory, you still have Beowulf in Old English before him, and XXXXXX Tristan. Both were taken very seriously long before Chaucer came around. I have Chaucer in the bottom 15, if that. Lucky for you, I'm not the judge here.

Well I'v heard of him so he must be good

 

[timschochet]

Sure, Joyce was highly influential all right: he influenced all the writers nobody reads, the ones the literary snobs tell us we should read. But your great novels with hard driving narrative and memorable characters- are any of those authors influenced by Joyce? Hell no! Are they influenced by Tolstoy and a few other authors of the Romantic school who should be chosen later? Hell yes!

 

[timschochet]

A friend is one that knows you as you are, understands where you have been, accepts what you have become, and still, gently allows you to grow.

Mr. Shakespeare must have a keen radar sense to detect his name and grace us with his presence.

Ay, marry, is't,But to my mind, though I am native here

And to the manner born, it is a custom

More honor'd in the breach than the observance,

Got any good quotes for the tragedy I'm witnessing in college basketball right now? My Bruins are getting killed! Surely the Bard knows something that will make me feel a little better...

"No, I will weep no more. In such a night

To shut me out! Pour on; I will endure.

In such a night as this!"

 

[flysack]

Sure, Joyce was highly influential all right: he influenced all the writers nobody reads, the ones the literary snobs tell us we should read. But your great novels with hard driving narrative and memorable characters- are any of those authors influenced by Joyce? Hell no! Are they influenced by Tolstoy and a few other authors of the Romantic school who should be chosen later? Hell yes!

Tolstoy was from the Romantic school? Ummm....EDIT to add: for a guy who likes to point out the overabundant white male Europeans drafted, I find it odd how ignorant you are of how phallocentric your criteria of "hard driving narrative" is. Cripes, you don't need to be a lit critic to figure that one out. Listen to it. HARD. DRIVING. NARRATIVE.Ok, I'll stop. Just playing Tim. I should take my own advice re: Joyce and leave it alone.

 

[Ozymandias]

And some certain well known writer, contemporary of Joyce, said that all writing in America went back to another writer in America.

Sorry to be a little obfuscating like Joyce, but the spotlighting police would get me otherwise.

 

[Abrantes]

Sure, Joyce was highly influential all right: he influenced all the writers nobody reads, the ones the literary snobs tell us we should read. But your great novels with hard driving narrative and memorable characters- are any of those authors influenced by Joyce? Hell no! Are they influenced by Tolstoy and a few other authors of the Romantic school who should be chosen later? Hell yes!

Sweeping generalizations are fun!

 

[Fennis]

Pretty sure Joyce will be in her top 3, as he absolutely should be. Top 5 at the very worst.

Why do you say that?

 

[thatguy]

Pretty sure Joyce will be in her top 3, as he absolutely should be. Top 5 at the very worst.

Why do you say that?

Well, for one, because it would honestly be insane for him not to be in the top 5.And because I think she knows this.

 

[Ozymandias]

Anybody ever heard of Spanish, Italian, French or German literature?

 

[larry_boy_44]

I know it was later at night but very little talk about my Geoffrey Chaucer pick.

He made the transition to the English language in literature. That is big.

He made it ok to write in "the vernacular" of English, yes. Big for English, but not that great worldwide. Also, from memory, you still have Beowulf in Old English before him, and XXXXXX Tristan. Both were taken very seriously long before Chaucer came around. I have Chaucer in the bottom 15, if that. Lucky for you, I'm not the judge here.

I've heard of Chaucer... and it wasn't purely from A Knight's Tale...so he's gotta be pretty decent at least...

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Anybody ever heard of Spanish, Italian, French or German literature?

I think all, save perhaps Italian, will be well represented before all is said and done.

 

[flysack]

German literature?

I've already been warned by the spotlight police. Don't get me started!

 

[timschochet]

Sure, Joyce was highly influential all right: he influenced all the writers nobody reads, the ones the literary snobs tell us we should read. But your great novels with hard driving narrative and memorable characters- are any of those authors influenced by Joyce? Hell no! Are they influenced by Tolstoy and a few other authors of the Romantic school who should be chosen later? Hell yes!

Tolstoy was from the Romantic school? Ummm....EDIT to add: for a guy who likes to point out the overabundant white male Europeans drafted, I find it odd how ignorant you are of how phallocentric your criteria of "hard driving narrative" is. Cripes, you don't need to be a lit critic to figure that one out. Listen to it. HARD. DRIVING. NARRATIVE.Ok, I'll stop. Just playing Tim. I should take my own advice re: Joyce and leave it alone.

Phallocentric?Look, I know what I enjoy, that's all. I like books with a plot. I like a good story. I like suspense, something that makes me turn the pages. Not something I don't understand.

 

[Ozymandias]

Anybody ever heard of Spanish, Italian, French or German literature?

I think all, save perhaps Italian, will be well represented before all is said and done.

That is an infernal thing to say.Or maybe it's funny.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Anybody ever heard of Spanish, Italian, French or German literature?

I think all, save perhaps Italian, will be well represented before all is said and done.

That is an infernal thing to say.

Poetically speaking, that would be over in the other category.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Sure, Joyce was highly influential all right: he influenced all the writers nobody reads, the ones the literary snobs tell us we should read. But your great novels with hard driving narrative and memorable characters- are any of those authors influenced by Joyce? Hell no! Are they influenced by Tolstoy and a few other authors of the Romantic school who should be chosen later? Hell yes!

Tolstoy was from the Romantic school? Ummm....EDIT to add: for a guy who likes to point out the overabundant white male Europeans drafted, I find it odd how ignorant you are of how phallocentric your criteria of "hard driving narrative" is. Cripes, you don't need to be a lit critic to figure that one out. Listen to it. HARD. DRIVING. NARRATIVE.Ok, I'll stop. Just playing Tim. I should take my own advice re: Joyce and leave it alone.

Phallocentric?Look, I know what I enjoy, that's all. I like books with a plot. I like a good story. I like suspense, something that makes me turn the pages. Not something I don't understand.

no you don't...if you did, you'd have given Michael Crichton more than a 2...

 

[timschochet]

Anybody ever heard of Spanish, Italian, French or German literature?

At least two of my alltime favorite novels were written in French, and if both authors are not selected, I will be sorely displeased.

 

[flysack]

Anybody ever heard of Spanish, Italian, French or German literature?

I think all, save perhaps Italian, will be well represented before all is said and done.

That is an infernal thing to say.

[sirens] GET HIM BOYS! [/sirens]For the record, Ozy, my top 5 are -1. Joyce - English2. German3. Russian4. Russian5. FrenchAnd #5 is only at 5 because I've never read him myself. I just know him from everyone else and know well enough he HAS to be in the top 5.