World's Greatest Draft (2 Viewers)

[larry_boy_44]

Is there any evidence outside of the Bible that either Abraham or Moses ever existed?

nothing concrete that I know of...

 

[thatguy]

I'm cracking up at all the whining and complaining going on here- Oh, you stole my pick, what will I do now? The way I see it, there's like 50 people that would be good picks for every frigging category.

We still have our preferences. Luckily for me I'd been targeting Machiavelli and Asoka as my third and fourth round picks since the end of the second round, so I'm very happy with the last two rounds. But I suspect the next 30 picks will be rather painful.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Is there any evidence outside of the Bible that either Abraham or Moses ever existed?

Nope, but to be fair there isn't much evidence that Jesus existed either - his stories were just collected and written down much closer to his life. The problem with Moses and Abraham is that there is a pretty good amount of evidence that major Old Testement events, the Exodus for example, actually didn't happen.

 

[flysack]

I like commentary that livens up a draft, but I agree with dparker that judges should remain silent until after the draft ends, at least as it pertains to their category.

Just catching up. I wanted to chime in on this, now that I'm a judge.Personally, I'm going to keep quiet about the Leader rankings from here on out.That said, before I knew I would be the Leader judge, I argued hard for Augustus Caesar as the #1 leader. So there's that.I've also commented on Washington as a Leader (and Rebel) pick too. That said, my criteria isn't static; I remain open to convincing. A succinct but quality write-up could earn you rankings.Game on!

 

[BobbyLayne]

Now we're getting down to business.

I could go in a million different directions here, but since I named 1 of my sons after him (and the Simpson version), Probably a reach, but I'd better go with my religious pick

4:08 - Abraham

Religious

How many figures can say that more than half the worlds population follow his offshoots?

Christianity = The Roman Catholic Church calls Abraham "our father in Faith,"

Islam - Abraham is revered by Muslims as one of the Prophets in Islam, and is commonly termed Khalil Ullah, "Friend of God". Abraham is considered a Hanif, that is, a discoverer of monotheism.

Judaism - Abraham not only symbolically appears as a fundamental figure for Judaism, but is recognised to have observed the tenets of the Torah before it was given to Moses.

Now if only he could get his 3 children to stop fighting!!!

Abraham (Hebrew: אַבְרָהָם, Standard Avraham Tiberian ʾAḇrāhām Ashkenazi Avrohom or Avruhom ; Arabic: ابراهيم‎, Ibrāhīm ; GE's: አብርሃም, ʾAbrəham) features in the Book of Genesis as the founding patriarch of the Israelites, Ishmaelites and Edomite peoples. He is widely regarded as the patriarch of Jews and Arabs and the founder of monotheism. According to Genesis 17:5, his name was changed by God from Abram (probably meaning "the father is exalted) to Abraham, a name which Genesis explains as meaning "father of many".

According to Genesis, Abraham was sent by God from his home in Ur of the Chaldees to Canaan, the land promised to his descendants by Yahweh. There Abraham entered into a covenant: in exchange for recognition of YHWH as his God, Abraham will be blessed with innumerable progeny and the land would belong to his descendants. [2]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are sometimes referred to as the "Abrahamic religions" because of the progenitor role Abraham plays in their holy books. In the Jewish tradition, he is called Avraham Avinu or "Abraham, our Father". God promised Abraham that through his offspring, all the nations of the world will come to be blessed (Genesis 12:3), interpreted in Christian tradition as a reference particularly to Christ. Jews, Christians, and Muslims consider him father of the people of Israel through his son XXXXX (cf. Exodus 6:3, Exodus 32:13) by his wife XXXXX. For Muslims, he is a prophet of Islam and the ancestor of Muhammad through his other son XXXXXXX - born to him by his second wife, XXXXX. (Jews and Christians refer to XXXXX as XXXXXX servant). Abraham is also a progenitor of the Semitic tribes of the XXXXX who trace their descent from their common ancestor XXXXX (Genesis 10:28).

OK, we may need CrossEyed back in here for his X spurt opine. So...Zionists and pre-millennial end times folks...the angel of the Lord stopped Abraham from sacrificing his son on a rock...that rock ends up in Jerusalem, upon which the beautiful Dome of the Rock on Temple Mount sits. Holiest place in Islam.

That is the same exact place The Temple House that was destroyed in 70 CE used to be - the Western Wall, or Wailing Wall, is the only remaining part of the Temple. Holiest place in Judaism.

Christians believe the Jews must rebuild the temple in the same place before Christ can return.

Then Armageddon.

Have I got anything wrong yet?

 

[Ozymandias]

So I feel pretty confident in saying that Alexander and Hannibal were not influenced by Sun Tzu and I would bet on Khan not being influenced either but I can't find any way to prove it right now. So definitely 2, possibly 3 of the top 4 military commanders of all time were not influenced by The Art of War. Not a great report card for arguing that he should be #1.

Greatest military commanders that you have stated had their time and place and effected X number of people at that time. Those commanders have "lost" their effectiveness long ago and one could argue that it was at the time of their death. On the other hand, Sun Tzu, had an effect on some when he was alive but has had an effect on people throughout the history we have been talking about. Even to this day in other worldly applications, Sun Tzu and The Art of War are at the forefront of discussion at times. To this day Sun Tzu is here to stay as he affects peoples lives today. Can that be said about Hannibal, Alexander, and others from the Ancients? I think not.

It would obviously help if we had definite proof that he existed, and that it wasn't a compilation of good military strategies acquired during the Warring States period, from about 476 to 221 BC. It would also help if we knew he'd actually gone out and fought a battle. As far as Hannibal goes, we have this from Will Durant in the monumental History of Civilization: "It was a supreme example of generalship, never bettered in history… and it set the lines of military tactics for 2,000 years". (Referring to the Battle of Cannae).

 

[mad sweeney]

As far as the actual exploration goes, sure several people were involved. A King or Queen generally put up the money and the explorer had to hire ship builders, crew, navigators, provisions, soldiers etc. But as for the voyage he had to captain the ship and/or fleet, have the idea of where to go and how to get there etc... I think the amount of work done by the given explorer is much higher for the sea voyager than for the pilot of the moon lander who had support from Houston, a known destination and a way back.

I'm not talking about space exploration, I am talking about the moon. Armstrong wasn't the first one in space. Most of these explorers are useful because they discovered some place useful.

I am not arguing he doesn't belong but I think his contributions to the explorer category are less than the guy I never heard of theat MK picked. He's iconic of explorers but I don't rank him high on the list.

Armstrong only took 3 of his entourage with him, and used radio to communicate the rest. Columbus took 3 full ships. Considering the complexity, I dont find this all that different. And the guys in the capsule do a whole lot. And even though there are plenty of people helping them, ultimately they need to execute in extremely high pressure situations. I mean, their trips are alot shorter as compared to some other explorers, but they're nearly constantly doing something. Over 2 weeks or so, they barely get any sleep, and early astronauts also lost a fair amount of weight, muscle mass and bone density. Its physically and mentally grueling. And there are plenty of valuable resources on the moon, we just dont yet have technologies or the demand to make harvesting economically viable. And many of the technology developed to go to the moon has been commercially exploited for decades. Its extremely short sighted to think that celestial bodies and the moon in particular will not be useful places.

I am not diminishing the amount of work or the greatness of the achievment by Armstrong and NASA. I am simply saying that in terms of Neil's ranking as an explorer in this draft falls well short of all those already taken and probably several more to come.As to the bolded part. Second sentence first. I don't see how it's short sighted to think the moon won't be useful. It's been over 40 years since the landing and there has been exactly squat to show from it and zero plans right now to do anything about changing that. There may be use for the moon and such in the future, but virtually none of that will be because of Neil. Which leads to the first bolded sentence in that the technologies involved both then and in the future were not and will not be designed or built by Armstrong. As far as I can tell, other than landing himself on the moon, nothing that would go into harvesting the moon or any of the technology derived from the filghts were anything that couldn't have been gathered by an unmanned probe.

Again, I am not at all trying to rain on Armstrong or NASA or the space race or anything. It's an unbelievable and tremendous historical achievement but as it relates to this category in this draft I feel there are way too many people involved in getting him to the moon to assign Neil as an explorer a very high score. That's just my opinion and I am not the judge.

As a wildcard I think he's a lock for a 10 though...

 

[higgins]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

linky

I suspect that if he's instructing multiple world karate champions, he's at least as good as they are.

Bruce also instructed several World Karate Champions including Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, and Mike Stone. Between all 3 of them, during their training with Bruce they won every Karate Championship in the United States.[36]

Physique

Lee's devotion to fitness gave him a body that was admired even by many of the top names in the bodybuilding community. Joe Weider, the founder of Mr. Olympia, described Lee's physique as "the most defined body I've ever seen!" Many top bodybuilding competitors have acknowledged Lee as a major influence in their careers, including Flex Wheeler, Shawn Ray, Rachel McLish, Lou Ferrigno, Lenda Murray, Dorian Yates and eight time Mr. Olympia Lee Haney.[51] Arnold Schwarzenegger was also influenced by Lee, and said of his body,

"Bruce Lee had a very—I mean a very defined physique. He had very little body fat. I mean, he probably had one of the lowest body fat counts of any athlete. And I think that's why he looked so unbelievable."

Human WeaponThe 2007 produced documentary Human Weapon by The History Channel mentioned Lee in episode Nr. 10 (China and Kung Fu). It calls: "...that made Lee arguably the greatest martial artist of his time, or any other". Human Weapon is a very serious documentary about martial arts. In any episode the hosts, Jason Chambers and Bill Duff, travel across the world studying the unique martial arts, or styles of fighting, that have origins in the region, from Karate to Judo, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, MMA, Marine Corps to Pankreas. To consider Lee as "arguably the greatest martial artist of his time, or any other" is a great honour to him because this documentary is very serious and shows many differnet styles.



In 2004, UFC president Dana White credited Lee as the "father of mixed martial arts".

Physical feats

Lee's phenomenal fitness meant he was capable of performing many exceptional physical feats.The following list includes some of the physical feats that are documented and supported by reliable sources.

* Lee's striking speed from three feet with his hands down by his side reached five hundredths of a second.[59]

* Lee's combat movements were at times too fast to be captured on film at 24 frames per second, so many scenes were shot in 32frame/s to put Lee in slow motion. Normally martial arts films are sped up.[60][61][62]

* In a speed demonstration, Lee could snatch a dime off a person's open palm before they could close it, and leave a penny behind.[63]

* Lee would hold an elevated v-sit position for 30 minutes or longer.[57]

* Lee could throw grains of rice up into the air and then catch them in mid-flight using chopsticks.[51]

* Lee performed one-hand push-ups using only the thumb and index finger[58][64][51][58]

* Lee performed 50 reps of one-arm chin-ups.[65]

* Lee could break wooden boards 6 inches (15 cm) thick.[66]

* Lee could cause a 300-lb (136 kg) bag to fly towards and thump the ceiling with a side kick.[58]

* Lee performed a side kick while training with James Coburn and broke a 150-lb (68 kg) punching bag[57][67]

* In a move that has been dubbed "Dragon Flag", Lee could perform leg lifts with only his shoulder blades resting on the edge of a bench and suspend his legs and torso perfectly horizontal midair.[68]

I don't think anyone has any doubt he would kick the #### out of another in this category (Ali) .... AND I believe he transcends athlete.

Bonus pic

 

[larry_boy_44]

Now we're getting down to business.

I could go in a million different directions here, but since I named 1 of my sons after him (and the Simpson version), Probably a reach, but I'd better go with my religious pick

4:08 - Abraham

Religious

How many figures can say that more than half the worlds population follow his offshoots?

Christianity = The Roman Catholic Church calls Abraham "our father in Faith,"

Islam - Abraham is revered by Muslims as one of the Prophets in Islam, and is commonly termed Khalil Ullah, "Friend of God". Abraham is considered a Hanif, that is, a discoverer of monotheism.

Judaism - Abraham not only symbolically appears as a fundamental figure for Judaism, but is recognised to have observed the tenets of the Torah before it was given to Moses.

Now if only he could get his 3 children to stop fighting!!!

Abraham (Hebrew: אַבְרָהָם, Standard Avraham Tiberian ʾAḇrāhām Ashkenazi Avrohom or Avruhom ; Arabic: ابراهيم‎, Ibrāhīm ; GE's: አብርሃም, ʾAbrəham) features in the Book of Genesis as the founding patriarch of the Israelites, Ishmaelites and Edomite peoples. He is widely regarded as the patriarch of Jews and Arabs and the founder of monotheism. According to Genesis 17:5, his name was changed by God from Abram (probably meaning "the father is exalted) to Abraham, a name which Genesis explains as meaning "father of many".

According to Genesis, Abraham was sent by God from his home in Ur of the Chaldees to Canaan, the land promised to his descendants by Yahweh. There Abraham entered into a covenant: in exchange for recognition of YHWH as his God, Abraham will be blessed with innumerable progeny and the land would belong to his descendants. [2]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are sometimes referred to as the "Abrahamic religions" because of the progenitor role Abraham plays in their holy books. In the Jewish tradition, he is called Avraham Avinu or "Abraham, our Father". God promised Abraham that through his offspring, all the nations of the world will come to be blessed (Genesis 12:3), interpreted in Christian tradition as a reference particularly to Christ. Jews, Christians, and Muslims consider him father of the people of Israel through his son XXXXX (cf. Exodus 6:3, Exodus 32:13) by his wife XXXXX. For Muslims, he is a prophet of Islam and the ancestor of Muhammad through his other son XXXXXXX - born to him by his second wife, XXXXX. (Jews and Christians refer to XXXXX as XXXXXX servant). Abraham is also a progenitor of the Semitic tribes of the XXXXX who trace their descent from their common ancestor XXXXX (Genesis 10:28).

OK, we may need CrossEyed back in here for his X spurt opine. So...Zionists and pre-millennial end times folks...the angel of the Lord stopped Abraham from sacrificing his son on a rock...that rock ends up in Jerusalem, upon which the beautiful Dome of the Rock on Temple Mount sits. Holiest place in Islam.

That is the same exact place The Temple House that was destroyed in 70 CE used to be - the Western Wall, or Wailing Wall, is the only remaining part of the Temple. Holiest place in Judaism.

Christians believe the Jews must rebuild the temple in the same place before Christ can return.

Then Armageddon.

Have I got anything wrong yet?

not all Christians believe that... and even of those who do, most will tell you that its their best guess as to what the prophecies in the Bible are saying will happen, not that it will for sure happen...

 

[BobbyLayne]

4.07 Usual21 - skipped

4.10 Big Rocks - On The Clock Until 6:55 p.m. EST

4.11 Mad Sweeney - On Deck

4.12 Doug B - In the Hole

4.13 DC Thunder

4.14 Thorn

4.15 Yankee23fan

4.16 Acer FC

4.17 FUBAR

4.18 Arsenal of Doom

4.19 Larry Boy 44

4.20 Mario Kart

 

[flysack]

4.4 Archimedes - ScientistWill post write up later.

Great, great pick. I think he slid down past where should have been taken.Scientist though? Hmmm. Inventor might be the better category, or even Intellectual.

 

[mad sweeney]

So I feel pretty confident in saying that Alexander and Hannibal were not influenced by Sun Tzu and I would bet on Khan not being influenced either but I can't find any way to prove it right now. So definitely 2, possibly 3 of the top 4 military commanders of all time were not influenced by The Art of War. Not a great report card for arguing that he should be #1.

Greatest military commanders that you have stated had their time and place and effected X number of people at that time. Those commanders have "lost" their effectiveness long ago and one could argue that it was at the time of their death. On the other hand, Sun Tzu, had an effect on some when he was alive but has had an effect on people throughout the history we have been talking about. Even to this day in other worldly applications, Sun Tzu and The Art of War are at the forefront of discussion at times. To this day Sun Tzu is here to stay as he affects peoples lives today. Can that be said about Hannibal, Alexander, and others from the Ancients? I think not.

Actually, they are widely considered the greatest military minds of all time. Their tactics and battles are studied, they just didn't write a book about it because they were too busy doing it. It's not like when Tzu's "book" hit the world stage people said, he let's stop studying what Alexander, Ghengis, Napoleon and Hannibal did. All these great "generals" are still studied. It's laughable to think that nobody studies these "ancient" (btw Tzu is older than all of them) generals' tactics and strategies, especillay considering they didn't use Tzu's strategies. Even the guys who were influenced by Tzu didn't base their strategies solely on the teachings of Tzu. If this was military intellectuals or theorists then he's a lock for #1. But combined in a category with actual military achievers (apples and oranges) he's going to get shoved to the middle of the pack.

 

[Big Rocks]

Have to run errands, so i'll do a write-up later.

4.10 Donatello, Artist/non-painter

 

[Mario Kart]

Have to run errands, so i'll do a write-up later.

4.10 Donatello, Artist/non-painter

I agree with Yankee... there are too many people in this draft. You moron... I do not like you right now!!!!!!!!! I really wanted to cut larry's knowledge of artists down to 1/4 of what he knows. You ruined it. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus, Donatello is the best turtle.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Have to run errands, so i'll do a write-up later.4.10 Donatello, Artist/non-painter

3/4 of my art cheatsheet is gone...not even a pizza and shouting "COWABUNGA!" while beating down some foot soldiers would cheer me up right now...

 

[BobbyLayne]

Big Rocks picked at 6:02 p.m. EST, so clock is off for the day.

Mad Sweeney is up, Doug B on deck.

 

[thatguy]

Have to run errands, so i'll do a write-up later.

4.10 Donatello, Artist/non-painter

I agree with Yankee... there are too many people in this draft. You moron... I do not like you right now!!!!!!!!! I really wanted to cut larry's knowledge of artists down to 1/4 of what he knows. You ruined it. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus, Donatello is the best turtle.

This is true.

 

[timschochet]

Bruce Lee- athlete?

Didn't he quit competitive sports at a relatively early time to go into fulltime acting and promotion of martial arts?

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I like commentary that livens up a draft, but I agree with dparker that judges should remain silent until after the draft ends, at least as it pertains to their category.

Just catching up. I wanted to chime in on this, now that I'm a judge.Personally, I'm going to keep quiet about the Leader rankings from here on out.That said, before I knew I would be the Leader judge, I argued hard for Augustus Caesar as the #1 leader. So there's that.I've also commented on Washington as a Leader (and Rebel) pick too. That said, my criteria isn't static; I remain open to convincing. A succinct but quality write-up could earn you rankings.Game on!

I still think you are understimating Constantine. Rome fell 400 years after Augustus; however, because Constantine 1) paved the way for Christianity to become the official religion of Rome, and 2) moved the capital to Constantinople, thus founding the Byzantine Empire and forming two major Christian planks, there was still structure in place 400 year after that for the Holy Roman Empire to begin. I think it's telling that the Holy Roman Emperors chose to fashion themselves after Constantine, and not after Augustus as was the fashion for the Emperors prior to the fall. As I said in my write up, I think the Edict of Milan and the Council of Nicaea had a much more profound influence on the next 1,800 years of history than can be claimed by any other leader. I'm certainly not knocking Augustus, but I also don't think it's a runaway contest with Constantine in the mix.

 

[Abrantes]

Have to run errands, so i'll do a write-up later.

4.10 Donatello, Artist/non-painter

I agree with Yankee... there are too many people in this draft. You moron... I do not like you right now!!!!!!!!! I really wanted to cut larry's knowledge of artists down to 1/4 of what he knows. You ruined it. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus, Donatello is the best turtle.

This is true.

Damn straight. It's all about Donatello.

 

[GTBilly]

Bruce Lee- athlete?Didn't he quit competitive sports at a relatively early time to go into fulltime acting and promotion of martial arts?

It's Bruce Lee lay off. Brilliance just brilliance great pick.

 

[Abrantes]

Bruce Lee- athlete?Didn't he quit competitive sports at a relatively early time to go into fulltime acting and promotion of martial arts?

It's Bruce Lee lay off. Brilliance just brilliance great pick.

Wasn't taken as an athlete in the Greatest American Draft, for what it's worth. His most fascinating accomplishments come from his inquisitive approach and the development of Jeet Kune Do, not his accomplishments as a martial artist.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Bruce Lee- athlete?Didn't he quit competitive sports at a relatively early time to go into fulltime acting and promotion of martial arts?

technically speaking, isn't Martial Arts considered a sport?(note: not defending the pick, just saying that Martial Arts (or at least for sure MMA) is a sport)

 

[larry_boy_44]

Bruce Lee- athlete?Didn't he quit competitive sports at a relatively early time to go into fulltime acting and promotion of martial arts?

It's Bruce Lee lay off. Brilliance just brilliance great pick.

Wasn't taken as an athlete in the Greatest American Draft, for what it's worth. His most fascinating accomplishments come from his inquisitive approach and the development of Jeet Kune Do, not his accomplishments as a martial artist.

and he was taken pretty late (like 10 rounds later than he was here at least)... I think... right?

 

[Abrantes]

Bruce Lee- athlete?Didn't he quit competitive sports at a relatively early time to go into fulltime acting and promotion of martial arts?

technically speaking, isn't Martial Arts considered a sport?(note: not defending the pick, just saying that Martial Arts (or at least for sure MMA) is a sport)

Apart from the discussion of whether or not MMA is an actual sport (I'd say it is, but it doesn't seem to be universally accepted), MMA and traditional martial arts are two entirely different things, regardless of what the names may suggest.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Bruce Lee- athlete?Didn't he quit competitive sports at a relatively early time to go into fulltime acting and promotion of martial arts?

technically speaking, isn't Martial Arts considered a sport?(note: not defending the pick, just saying that Martial Arts (or at least for sure MMA) is a sport)

Apart from the discussion of whether or not MMA is an actual sport (I'd say it is, but it doesn't seem to be universally accepted), MMA and traditional martial arts are two entirely different things, regardless of what the names may suggest.

Karate and Judo are/were in the Olympics...

 

[Fennis]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

Writeup later...

Am I the only one who thinks that Bruce Lee is not the 89th Greatest person to ever exist in the world?

 

[mad sweeney]

I have a few aces in the hole that I am going to play strategy with and hope one of them are still around when things swing back to me so I will pick a man inspired by the American Revolution and was able to help defeat another great superpower of the world, Spain. He didn't help free a country, he helped free a continent!

4.11 Simón José Antonio de la Santísima Trinidad Bolívar Palacios y Blancoaka Simon Bolivar Rebel/Military

Following the triumph over the Spanish Monarchy, Bolívar participated in the foundation of Gran Colombia, a nation formed from the liberated Spanish colonies. He was President of Gran Colombia from 1821 to 1830, President of Peru from 1824 to 1826, and President of Bolivia from 1825 to 1826.

Bolívar is credited with contributing decisively to the independence of the present-day countries of Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Panama, and Bolivia and is often revered as a hero.

While in Europe he witnessed the proclamation of Napoleon Bonaparte as Emperor of France and later the coronation of Napoleon as King of Italy in Milan. Bolívar lost respect for Napoleon whom he considered to have betrayed the republican ideals. But it was in while in Italy that Bolívar made his famous vow atop Mount Aventin of Rome to never rest until America was free.

Places named in honor of Bolívar

* In Argentina:

o Bolívar, Buenos Aires Province

* Bolivia

* In Colombia:

o Bolívar Department

o Bolívar, Cauca

o Bolívar, Santander

o Bolívar, Valle del Cauca

o El Carmen de Bolívar, Bolívar

o Bolívar Square, Bogotá

o Park of Bolívar, Medellín

o Pico Simón Bolívar

o Ciudad Bolívar, locality in Bogotá

o Simón Bolívar Park, Bogotá

* In Ecuador:

o Bolívar Province, Ecuador

o Aeropuerto Internacional Simon Bolivar, Guayaquil, Ecuador

* In El Salvador:

o Bolívar (town), in La Union province

* In Peru:

o Bolívar District

o Bolívar, the capital of Bolívar District

o Bolívar Province, in La Libertad Region

* In the United States:

o Bolivar, Tennessee

o Mount Bolivar, a mountain in Coos County, Oregon[6]

o Bolivar, Ohio

o Bolivar, Missouri

o Bolivar, West Virginia

o Bolivar County, Mississippi

o Bolivar (town), New York

o Bolivar (village), New York

o The Bolivar Peninsula in Galveston County, southern Texas

* In Venezuela:

o The Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, the official long name of Venezuela

o Bolívar State

o Ciudad Bolívar, capital of Bolívar State

o Pico Bolívar, Highest Peak in Venezuela

o Simón Bolivar Airport, airport serving the capital city of Venezuela, Caracas

* Various streets in Milwaukee, New Orleans, Mexico City, Mexico, Tehran, Ankara, Turkey, Cairo, Paris and Guatemala City are named after Simón Bolívar

 

[Doug B]

Re: Hannibal, who I was hopinig would fall to 4.12 ...

MarioKart -- go check out Hannibal's wiki article. Look at the maps of his battles. They are all attributed to The United States Military Academy (West Point). Still in use, still being taught today to future officers training for duty in contemporary theaters such as the Middle East.

 

[the moops]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

Writeup later...

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Bruce Lee is not the 89th Greatest person to ever exist in the world?

He has to be at least top 50.

 

[thatguy]

Great pick and you suck.

 

[Ozymandias]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

Writeup later...

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Bruce Lee is not the 89th Greatest person to ever exist in the world?

Obviously not. Higgins took him, so there are two of you.

 

[mad sweeney]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

Writeup later...

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Bruce Lee is not the 89th Greatest person to ever exist in the world?

Categories Fennis, remember the categories.That said, I think he's more iconic than a great athlete and is probably a reach here.

 

[thecatch]

4.03 (63rd pick) - Hannibal - Military

His first few years in Italy, he won three dramatic victories at the Battle of Trebia, the Battle of Lake Trasimene and the Battle of Cannae, and won over several Roman allies. The victory at Cannae has often been cited as one of the most perfect battles ever fought, as the army of Carthage decisively defeated a numerically superior army of the Roman Republic. Regarded to this day as one of the greatest tactical feats in military history, it was, in terms of the numbers killed, the second greatest defeat of Rome. After 17 years, a Roman counter-invasion of North Africa forced him to return to Carthage, where he was decisively defeated at the Battle of Zama.

As someone who spent an early round pick on Cannae in the Military Battle Draft, I think this is a great pick. Top 3 general, IMO, and good value for this draft spot.

 

[Abrantes]

Bruce Lee- athlete?Didn't he quit competitive sports at a relatively early time to go into fulltime acting and promotion of martial arts?

technically speaking, isn't Martial Arts considered a sport?(note: not defending the pick, just saying that Martial Arts (or at least for sure MMA) is a sport)

Apart from the discussion of whether or not MMA is an actual sport (I'd say it is, but it doesn't seem to be universally accepted), MMA and traditional martial arts are two entirely different things, regardless of what the names may suggest.

Karate and Judo are/were in the Olympics...

Well, traditionally most martial arts are methods and practices used for combat and/or self-defense. Rules, limitations and scoring systems may be applied to them to make them acceptable as sports, such as in the Olympics, but that's not what they are, in essence. Given that there's no record of Mr. Lee ever truly participating in a martial arts-related competition (apart from a disputed claim that he took part in an amateur boxing tournament in Hong Kong at age 17), it's hard for me to classify him as an athlete, fascinating though he may be.

 

[Abrantes]

Also, I can't believe we're still only midway through the fourth round. Still 18 picks to make! This is gonna drive me crazy.

 

[Big Rocks]

Have to run errands, so i'll do a write-up later.

4.10 Donatello, Artist/non-painter

Brief highlights:--sculptor and artist that lived in Italy during the Renaissance

--famous works include St. George, David, Equestrian Monument of Gattamelata, and St. Mark

--known for his work in basso rilievo (relief)

Selected quote from wiki:

In Florence, Donatello assisted xxx with the statues of prophets for the north door of the Battistero di San Giovanni, for which he received payment in November 1406 and early 1408. In 1409–1411 he executed the colossal seated figure of Saint John the Evangelist, which until 1588 occupied a niche of the old cathedral facade, and is now placed in a dark chapel of the Duomo. This work marks a decisive step forward from late Gothic Mannerism in the search for naturalism and the rendering of human feelings. The face, the shoulders and the bust are still idealized, while the hands and the pannings over the legs are more realistic.

In 1411–1413 Donatello worked on a statue of St. Mark for the church of Orsanmichele. In 1417 he completed the St. George for the Confraternity of the Cuirass-makers. The elegant St. George and the Dragon relief on the statue's base, executed in schiacciato (also known as bas-relief or basso rilievo) is one of the first examples of central-point perspective in sculpture.

From 1423 is the St. Louis of Toulouse, now in the Museum of the Basilica di Santa Croce. Donatello had also sculpted a tabernacle for this work, but it was sold in 1460 to house the Incredulity of St. Thomas by xxx .

Between 1415 and 1426, Donatello created five statues for the campanile of Santa Maria del Fiore in Florence, also known as the Duomo. These works are the Beardless Prophet; Bearded Prophet (both from 1415); the Sacrifice of Isaac (1421); Habbakuk (1423–1425); and Jeremiah (1423–1426); which follow the classical models for orators and are characterized by strong portrait details. From the late teens is the Pazzi Madonna relief in Berlin. In 1425, he executed the notable Crucifix for Santa Croce; this work portrays Christ in a moment of the agony, eyes and mouth partially opened, the body contracted in an ungraceful posture.

Between 1425–1427, Donatello collaborated with xxxxx on the funerary monument of the Antipope xxxx for the Battistero in Florence. Surely by Donatello is the recumbent bronze figure of the deceased, under a shell. In 1427, he completed in Pisa a marble panel for the funerary monument of Cardinal xxxxx at the church of Sant'Angelo a Nilo in Naples. In the same period, he executed the relief of the Feast of Herod and the statues of Faith and Hope for the Baptistery of Siena. The relief is mostly in stiacciato, while the foreground figures are done in bas-relief.

Also, the fact that i'm probably the most hated drafter right now is

 

[Fennis]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

Writeup later...

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Bruce Lee is not the 89th Greatest person to ever exist in the world?

Obviously not. Higgins took him, so there are two of you.

read what I mean, not what I type!!

 

[BobbyLayne]

I have a few aces in the hole that I am going to play strategy with and hope one of them are still around when things swing back to me so I will pick a man inspired by the American Revolution and was able to help defeat another great superpower of the world, Spain. He didn't help free a country, he helped free a continent!

4.11 Simón Bolívar Rebel/Military

Tremendous selection, well done.

 

[Fennis]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

Writeup later...

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Bruce Lee is not the 89th Greatest person to ever exist in the world?

Categories Fennis, remember the categories.That said, I think he's more iconic than a great athlete and is probably a reach here.

Let me put it this way. I dont think he belongs as in any category or as a WC.

 

[thatguy]

Also, I can't believe we're still only midway through the fourth round. Still 18 picks to make! This is gonna drive me crazy.

Tell me about. I had nightmares about getting Polked in the GAD draft. I think I've already had a dream about this draft.I wish I could get paid to draft and discuss awesome people all day.

 

[Doug B]

4.12 - William Wilberforce , Humanitarian

William Wilberforce (24 August 1759 – 29 July 1833) was a British politician, a philanthropist and a leader of the movement to abolish the slave trade. A native of Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire, he began his political career in 1780 and became the independent Member of Parliament for Yorkshire (1784–1812). In 1785 he underwent a conversion experience and became an evangelical Christian, resulting in major changes to his lifestyle and a lifelong concern for reform. In 1787 he came into contact with ... a group of anti-slave-trade activists ... They persuaded Wilberforce to take on the cause of abolition, and he soon became one of the leading English abolitionists. He headed the parliamentary campaign against the British slave trade until the eventual passage of the Slave Trade Act 1807.

Wilberforce was convinced of the importance of religion, morality, and education. He championed causes and campaigns such as ... British missionary work in India, the creation of a free colony in Sierra Leone, the foundation of the Church Mission Society, and the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. His underlying conservatism led him to support politically and socially repressive legislation, and resulted in criticism that he was ignoring injustices at home while campaigning for the enslaved abroad.

In later years, Wilberforce supported the campaign for the complete abolition of slavery, and continued his involvement after 1826, when he resigned from Parliament because of his failing health. That campaign led to the Slavery Abolition Act 1833, which abolished slavery in most of the British Empire; Wilberforce died just three days after hearing that the passage of the Act through Parliament was assured. He was buried in Westminster Abbey ...

 

[Fennis]

Fantastic pick. My #3 military leader, after Genghis Khan and Alexander.

You really need to stop doing this. Some disagree about even commenting on category picks you're going to judge, but I dont think there is any disagreement that ranking before the draft is done is entirely detrimental.

Why? They're gone. I recognize that if I give a rank where there are still others above them, it could be detrimental. But anyone picking now, still has the option of taking the remaining #1 on the board. It shouldn't affect their judgment. Does it harm people to know that Shakespeare is $1? Obviously, this is not my call, since it is not my thread. But I see no harm in it. And as far as commenting on it, I can hardly think of anything more boring than have a draft with no commentary. But if people don't want me to, call me when the draft is over.

Too bad you aren't the Rebel judge. I do what I want. It's part of the job description.

 

[thecatch]

I still think you are understimating Constantine. Rome fell 400 years after Augustus; however, because Constantine 1) paved the way for Christianity to become the official religion of Rome, and 2) moved the capital to Constantinople, thus founding the Byzantine Empire and forming two major Christian planks, there was still structure in place 400 year after that for the Holy Roman Empire to begin. I think it's telling that the Holy Roman Emperors chose to fashion themselves after Constantine, and not after Augustus as was the fashion for the Emperors prior to the fall. As I said in my write up, I think the Edict of Milan and the Council of Nicaea had a much more profound influence on the next 1,800 years of history than can be claimed by any other leader. I'm certainly not knocking Augustus, but I also don't think it's a runaway contest with Constantine in the mix.

It's been awhile since I studied this, but from my recollection of the history of the period, it'd be a bit of a stretch to attribute the Holy Roman Empire to Constantine's actions. I think you could as easily say Augustus laid the foundations for Constantine to be successful. I'd have him ranked highly but not #1.

 

[mad sweeney]

Also, I can't believe we're still only midway through the fourth round. Still 18 picks to make! This is gonna drive me crazy.

Tell me about. I had nightmares about getting Polked in the GAD draft. I think I've already had a dream about this draft.I wish I could get paid to draft and discuss awesome people all day.

I just got a call to work on Wednesday and almost waffled on taking it. I could easily talk myself into not working this week and just hit the gym, hike Griffith Park with my dog and sit at the computer looking up the oddball picks I hope to wow with later on.Unfortunately I have bills and work is scarce so I had to take it...

 

[thatguy]

I have a few aces in the hole that I am going to play strategy with and hope one of them are still around when things swing back to me so I will pick a man inspired by the American Revolution and was able to help defeat another great superpower of the world, Spain. He didn't help free a country, he helped free a continent!

4.11 Simón Bolívar Rebel/Military

Tremendous selection, well done.

Agreed. I think he's a top tier Rebel, which IMO is his best category. Fringe top ten leader and military figure.And again, Mad Sweeney, you suck.

 

[BobbyLayne]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

Writeup later...

Am I the only one who thinks that Bruce Lee is not the 89th Greatest person to ever exist in the world?

I will type slowly for you, my friend.3 rounds times 20 picks equals 60 plus 9 equals...

Anyway, maybe, maybe not...I'll just say it would not have been one I would have thought of in the 4th round and leave it at that.

 

[mad sweeney]

I have a few aces in the hole that I am going to play strategy with and hope one of them are still around when things swing back to me so I will pick a man inspired by the American Revolution and was able to help defeat another great superpower of the world, Spain. He didn't help free a country, he helped free a continent!

4.11 Simón Bolívar Rebel/Military

Tremendous selection, well done.

Agreed. I think he's a top tier Rebel, which IMO is his best category. Fringe top ten leader and military figure.And again, Mad Sweeney, you suck.

Oh was that first one for moi?! I was hoping but didn't know for sure. The fact that any others get mad for my pick makes me feel a little better for taking them, especially when I look down on the list and see all the names still left.

 

[thatguy]

I have a few aces in the hole that I am going to play strategy with and hope one of them are still around when things swing back to me so I will pick a man inspired by the American Revolution and was able to help defeat another great superpower of the world, Spain. He didn't help free a country, he helped free a continent!

4.11 Simón Bolívar Rebel/Military

Tremendous selection, well done.

Agreed. I think he's a top tier Rebel, which IMO is his best category. Fringe top ten leader and military figure.And again, Mad Sweeney, you suck.

Oh was that first one for moi?! I was hoping but didn't know for sure. The fact that any others get mad for my pick makes me feel a little better for taking them, especially when I look down on the list and see all the names still left.

Yeah I posted that you suck right after you made the pick, but did not quote your pick so any number of drafters could, and for vanity's sake likely did, assume I was referring to them.

 

[larry_boy_44]

4.09 -- Bruce Lee, Athlete.

Writeup later...

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Bruce Lee is not the 89th Greatest person to ever exist in the world?

Categories Fennis, remember the categories.That said, I think he's more iconic than a great athlete and is probably a reach here.

Let me put it this way. I dont think he belongs as in any category or as a WC.

I don't think he'd be a horrible celebrity...maybe not top 5, but he is quite famous... I mean, everyone knows who Bruce Lee is...