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Worst Super Bowl champ ever? (2 Viewers)

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  • 1970 Colts

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  • 1980 Raiders

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  • 1987 Redskins

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  • 2001 Patriots

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  • 2007 Giants

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  • 1968 Jets

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  • 1969 Chiefs

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Chase Stuart

Footballguy
***UPDATED WITH POLL****

I put the five teams from the article, along with the two AFL teams (who might be overrated when looking just at their raw regular season numbers), and an other. Please vote.

Some nutjob writer thinks this Giants team might be the worst Super Bowl champion ever:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=479

I was rooting strongly for the Giants in this past Super Bowl and was very impressed with New York's victory. I also know that being considered the worst super bowl champion ever is like being the least impressive gold medalist: all deserve credit and praise for achieving such an incredible feat. Winning on the field is what counts, and who really cares what I have to say, anyway?

However, I was curious to see where New York ranked relative to other champions. Here's a list of all 42 Super Bowl Champions, sorted by record:

mia1972 14-0-0 1.000chi1985 15-1-0 0.938sfo1984 15-1-0 0.938rai1976 13-1-0 0.929was1982 8-1-0 0.889was1991 14-2-0 0.875den1998 14-2-0 0.875sfo1989 14-2-0 0.875nwe2004 14-2-0 0.875pit1978 14-2-0 0.875nyg1986 14-2-0 0.875nwe2003 14-2-0 0.875pit1975 12-2-0 0.857mia1973 12-2-0 0.857gnb1966 12-2-0 0.857dal1977 12-2-0 0.857clt1970 11-2-1 0.821ram1999 13-3-0 0.813gnb1996 13-3-0 0.813sfo1994 13-3-0 0.813dal1992 13-3-0 0.813nyg1990 13-3-0 0.813sfo1981 13-3-0 0.813dal1971 11-3-0 0.786kan1969 11-3-0 0.786nyj1968 11-3-0 0.786den1997 12-4-0 0.750rav2000 12-4-0 0.750pit1979 12-4-0 0.750tam2002 12-4-0 0.750dal1993 12-4-0 0.750dal1995 12-4-0 0.750pit1974 10-3-1 0.750rai1983 12-4-0 0.750clt2006 12-4-0 0.750was1987 11-4-0 0.733pit2005 11-5-0 0.688nwe2001 11-5-0 0.688rai1980 11-5-0 0.688gnb1967 9-4-1 0.679sfo1988 10-6-0 0.625nyg2007 10-6-0 0.625The next table shows each team's regular season points scored, points allowed, points differential, and differential per game for each team.
Code:
ram1999 526 242 284 17.8was1991 485 224 261 16.3chi1985 456 198 258 16.1sfo1984 475 227 248 15.5gnb1996 456 210 246 15.4mia1972 385 171 214 15.3pit1975 373 162 211 15.1mia1973 343 150 193 13.8dal1971 406 222 184 13.1sfo1994 505 296 209 13.1kan1969 359 177 182 13.0gnb1966 335 163 172 12.3den1998 501 309 192 12.0sfo1989 442 253 189 11.8den1997 472 287 185 11.6nwe2004 437 260 177 11.1rav2000 333 165 168 10.5dal1992 409 243 166 10.4pit1978 356 195 161 10.1nyj1968 419 280 139 9.9pit1979 416 262 154 9.6dal1977 345 212 133 9.5tam2002 346 196 150 9.4dal1993 376 229 147 9.2dal1995 435 291 144 9.0gnb1967 332 209 123 8.8nyg1986 371 236 135 8.4pit1974 305 189 116 8.3pit2005 389 258 131 8.2rai1976 350 237 113 8.1nyg1990 335 211 124 7.8was1982 190 128 62 6.9nwe2003 348 238 110 6.9sfo1981 357 250 107 6.7rai1983 442 338 104 6.5was1987 379 285 94 6.3clt1970 321 234 87 6.2nwe2001 371 272 99 6.2sfo1988 369 294 75 4.7clt2006 427 360 67 4.2rai1980 364 306 58 3.6nyg2007 373 351 22 1.4
We can also sort the teams by Pythagorean record. The Pythagorean record is calculated by taking the points scored number raised to the 2.37th power, and dividing it by the sum of itself and the points allowed number raised to the 2.37th power. I've got a bit of evidence that indicates that the correct exponent is 2.60 instead of 2.37, but: 1) I'm not sure about that, and it's been on my to-do list to post about deriving the "correct" exponent for awhile; 2) in light of that, I'll go with the more generally accepted 2.37 number, since it doesn't matter too much, anyway. That link gives a full explanation of what the Pythagorean record is and why we should care about it.Additionally, great defensive teams are generally undervalued when using the difference between points scored and points allowed, because a 35-17 win counts for more than a 13-0 win, despite it being reasonable to conclude that the latter win was more impressive or more dominant. Teams like the '02 Bucs, '78 Steelers and '00 Ravens shoot up this list, while the '98 Broncos, '68 Jets and '94 49ers fall a bit.

chi1985 0.878pit1975 0.878mia1973 0.877mia1972 0.873ram1999 0.863gnb1996 0.863was1991 0.862sfo1984 0.852gnb1966 0.846kan1969 0.842rav2000 0.841dal1971 0.807pit1978 0.806tam2002 0.794sfo1989 0.790sfo1994 0.780dal1992 0.775nwe2004 0.774den1997 0.765dal1993 0.764dal1977 0.760den1998 0.759pit1974 0.757gnb1967 0.750pit1979 0.749nyg1990 0.749nyg1986 0.745pit2005 0.726nyj1968 0.722dal1995 0.722was1982 0.718rai1976 0.716nwe2003 0.711sfo1981 0.699clt1970 0.679nwe2001 0.676was1987 0.663rai1983 0.654sfo1988 0.631rai1980 0.601clt2006 0.600nyg2007 0.536Note: by this method, the last two Super Bowl champions were the worst two of all time. The two teams are the only SB champs to allow 350 points in a season. The Giants, of course, have been at the bottom of each list presented here so far. Does that mean New York's the worst SB Champ ever?To the extent that such a consensus exists, I'd posit that most have regarded the 2001 Patriots as the worst SB champion of all time. The 2006 Colts (last before this year's Giants in Pythagorean record) and the '88 49ers (last in actual record, tied with this year's Giants) were led by Manning and Montana, and both players were in their primes. Justifiable or not, that will exclude them from consideration for a majority of commentators. The '67 Packers weren't a very good team record-wide, but were middle of the pack in points differential and Pythagorean record, and were still The Lombardi Packers.

The '80 Raiders are probably the Pats best competitor for the title. The Silver and Black ranked last among the first 41 Super Bowl winners in points differential, third to last in record, and third to last in Pythagorean record. QB Jim Plunkett was never very good, and 1980 wasn't a particularly good year for him, either. Tom Flores won two Super Bowls but few consider him an elite coach, and his sub-.300 winning percentage in Seattle earns him no bonus points. Mark van Eeghen was nothing special (Antowain Smith-like?), and the Raiders ranked in the bottom half of the league in yards gained.

The '01 Patriots? New England ranked 19th in yards gained and 24th in yards allowed. Brady, Belichick, Light and Seymour were all unknowns at this point, and none of them besides Belichick were at an elite level in 2001. Whereas the '80 Raiders won four playoff games by 46 points, New England won its three playoff games by just thirteen points. The Pats beat better post-season opponents, but also won it particularly fluky ways. I think it's a pretty close fight between these two teams for the worst SB Champion ever. New England had four Pro Bowlers, Oakland six. According to the SRS, the Raiders have a +4.2 rating thanks to a slightly harder than average schedule, and the Patriots have a +4.3 rating thanks to a relatively easy schedule. (For first time readers of the blog, you can learn about the SRS here.) This one's a toss up, but do the Giants clearly steal the show?

New York had just one Pro Bowler. While Doug hasn't run the official 2007 SRS ratings yet, my less refined method (that usually comes within a decimal point or two) gives them a +3.3, thanks to having one of the ten hardest schedules in the league. That rating, of course, isn't very good for a Super Bowl champion. The Patriots, according to my preliminary system, rate at +20.1, which would be the highest ever by a wide margin. I've got no doubt that once Doug runs the numbers, New England's SRS rating will blow out every other team's since the merger.

Here's how the thirty-seven champs from 1970-2006 rank according to the SRS:

was1991 16.6chi1985 15.9gnb1996 15.3pit1975 14.2mia1973 13.2nwe2004 12.8sfo1984 12.7pit1979 11.9ram1999 11.9sfo1994 11.6mia1972 11.0den1997 10.7sfo1989 10.7dal1992 9.9dal1971 9.9dal1995 9.7dal1993 9.6nyg1986 9.0den1998 8.9tam2002 8.8rai1976 8.5pit1978 8.2rav2000 8.0dal1977 7.8pit2005 7.8nyg1990 7.7was1982 7.4nwe2003 6.9pit1974 6.8rai1983 6.8sfo1981 6.2clt2006 5.9sfo1988 4.8nwe2001 4.3rai1980 4.2was1987 3.7clt1970 0.4The 2007 Giants will probably rank 2nd to last, or at best, third to last according to the SRS. You might wonder why the '70 Colts rate so poorly on this list; after all, Baltimore ranked 17th in winning percentage, 35th in Pythagorean record and 37th in differential. Well, the '70 Colts had the third easiest schedule of any team from 1970-2006, behind only the '70 Dolphins and the '99 Rams. That team had Unitas and won its three post season games by 30 points, but it certainly belongs in the discussion of the worst SB champion ever.The '87 Skins ranked in the bottom ten in record, differential and Pythagorean record, and rank in the bottom three in SRS rating. If anything, those states are inflated by Washington's 3-0 record and +39 points differential in the three strike games. Washington was fortunate to avoid an excellent 49ers team in the playoffs, and Doug Williams and Jay Schroeder completed just 210 of 410 passes. This was a team with some good stars in their prime (Darrell Green, Gary Clark, Dexter Manley and Charles Mann), but was not a very deep team and won just two-thirds of its games played with non-strike players.

I think the '70 Colts, '80 Raiders, '87 Redskins, '01 Patriots and '07 Giants probably deserve their own subgroup as the five worst Super Bowl Champions of all time. The '88 49ers and '06 Colts might be close to them, but having two of the greatest QBs of all time eliminates them from this category (and no, I'm not being inconsistent; Unitas was in his last year as a starter for the Colts, and Brady was in his first year as a starter for the Pats). I'm trying not to be a Giants hater here, but I don't see how to objectively put this team among the 37 best Super Bowl winners.

I know the Giants of the playoffs were not the Giants of the regular season. New York went 0-4 against Dallas, Green Bay and New England in the regular season, losing by 46 points despite playing three of those games at home; in the playoffs, Big Blue went 3-0 against those opponents. But all Super Bowl Champions played well in the playoffs, right? That's why they went undefeated in the post-season. And fair or not, New York won its playoff games by just 20 points. This was not a dominating post-season by any stretch of the imagination, although I know they three of the four best teams in the league this year. But the thing is, most Super Bowl champions beat the best couple of teams in the league. Here's how the 42 Super Bowl winners rank in terms of margin of victory per game in the playoffs:

sfo1989 3 100 33.3nyg1986 3 82 27.3chi1985 3 81 27.0rai1983 3 73 24.3dal1992 3 69 23.0tam2002 3 69 23.0dal1977 3 64 21.3den1998 3 63 21.0sfo1994 3 62 20.7was1991 3 61 20.3sfo1984 3 56 18.7pit1978 3 56 18.7rav2000 4 72 18.0sfo1988 3 54 18.0mia1973 3 52 17.3gnb1996 3 52 17.3gnb1966 2 32 16.0was1982 4 62 15.5pit1979 3 46 15.3gnb1967 3 44 14.7dal1993 3 44 14.7was1987 3 43 14.3dal1971 3 40 13.3dal1995 3 40 13.3pit1974 3 39 13.0rai1976 3 38 12.7rai1980 4 46 11.5nwe2004 3 34 11.3pit2005 4 45 11.3kan1969 3 33 11.0nyg1990 3 31 10.3clt1970 3 30 10.0clt2006 4 40 10.0den1997 4 39 9.8pit1975 3 28 9.3ram1999 3 24 8.0sfo1981 3 20 6.7nyj1968 2 13 6.5mia1972 3 17 5.7nwe2003 3 16 5.3nyg2007 4 20 5.0nwe2001 3 13 4.3The Giants don't look very good here, and the '72 Dolphins poor showing is one of the larger reasons Miami isn't unanimously (or even generally) considered the best team of all time. The '83 Raiders escape the title of "bad Super Bowl Champion" because of the dominant post-season run, even if Los Angeles has less than impressive peripherals. The '89 49ers are often in the conversation for best team ever, and the dominant playoff performance is a good reason why.The '01 Pats rank at the bottom of the list, and arguably their wins were even less impressive than the margin of victory shows. But New England was probably a better regular season team than the Giants, and beat some excellent playoff teams. I think it's too close to call definitively who was the worst Super Bowl champion of all time: the Colts, Redskins, Raiders, Giants and Pats are all in the mix. But if I had to choose one, I'd go with the Giants. New England, for all the easy knocks against them in 2001, did end up going 11-3 with Brady at the helm, and I'm willing to give them a slight pass for the two "Bledsoe" games.

One final pro-Giants note: I've often heard the '90 Giants called the worst Super Bowl champion ever. That seems really silly, based on this post. I understand that Giants team ranked 15th in the league in points scored, and beat two teams that might have been considered the best ever had they won the Super Bowl. The '90 49ers were gunning for the three-peat, and had started the season 10-0. The Bills were 13-2 before losing a meaningless week 17 game, led the league in points scored, and then scored 95 points in its first two playoff games. Buffalo had nine pro bowlers and a fun offense. Maybe those wins created some resentment for the '90 Giants. But New York ranked tied for 18th best record, and while it ranked 31st in differential, it was 26th in the more telling Pythagorean record statistic. Further, New York didn't even rank in the bottom ten according to SRS, and deserves some credit for beating two very good playoff teams. Those '90 Giants are probably in the bottom half of Super Bowl winners, but definitely aren't in the running for worst ever Super Bowl champ.

 
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Some nutjob writer thinks this Giants team might be the worst Super Bowl champion ever:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=479

I was rooting strongly for the Giants in this past Super Bowl and was very impressed with New York's victory. I also know that being considered the worst super bowl champion ever is like being the least impressive gold medalist: all deserve credit and praise for achieving such an incredible feat. Winning on the field is what counts, and who really cares what I have to say, anyway?

However, I was curious to see where New York ranked relative to other champions. Here's a list of all 42 Super Bowl Champions, sorted by record:

mia1972 14-0-0 1.000chi1985 15-1-0 0.938sfo1984 15-1-0 0.938rai1976 13-1-0 0.929was1982 8-1-0 0.889was1991 14-2-0 0.875den1998 14-2-0 0.875sfo1989 14-2-0 0.875nwe2004 14-2-0 0.875pit1978 14-2-0 0.875nyg1986 14-2-0 0.875nwe2003 14-2-0 0.875pit1975 12-2-0 0.857mia1973 12-2-0 0.857gnb1966 12-2-0 0.857dal1977 12-2-0 0.857clt1970 11-2-1 0.821ram1999 13-3-0 0.813gnb1996 13-3-0 0.813sfo1994 13-3-0 0.813dal1992 13-3-0 0.813nyg1990 13-3-0 0.813sfo1981 13-3-0 0.813dal1971 11-3-0 0.786kan1969 11-3-0 0.786nyj1968 11-3-0 0.786den1997 12-4-0 0.750rav2000 12-4-0 0.750pit1979 12-4-0 0.750tam2002 12-4-0 0.750dal1993 12-4-0 0.750dal1995 12-4-0 0.750pit1974 10-3-1 0.750rai1983 12-4-0 0.750clt2006 12-4-0 0.750was1987 11-4-0 0.733pit2005 11-5-0 0.688nwe2001 11-5-0 0.688rai1980 11-5-0 0.688gnb1967 9-4-1 0.679sfo1988 10-6-0 0.625nyg2007 10-6-0 0.625The next table shows each team's regular season points scored, points allowed, points differential, and differential per game for each team.
Code:
ram1999 526 242 284 17.8was1991 485 224 261 16.3chi1985 456 198 258 16.1sfo1984 475 227 248 15.5gnb1996 456 210 246 15.4mia1972 385 171 214 15.3pit1975 373 162 211 15.1mia1973 343 150 193 13.8dal1971 406 222 184 13.1sfo1994 505 296 209 13.1kan1969 359 177 182 13.0gnb1966 335 163 172 12.3den1998 501 309 192 12.0sfo1989 442 253 189 11.8den1997 472 287 185 11.6nwe2004 437 260 177 11.1rav2000 333 165 168 10.5dal1992 409 243 166 10.4pit1978 356 195 161 10.1nyj1968 419 280 139 9.9pit1979 416 262 154 9.6dal1977 345 212 133 9.5tam2002 346 196 150 9.4dal1993 376 229 147 9.2dal1995 435 291 144 9.0gnb1967 332 209 123 8.8nyg1986 371 236 135 8.4pit1974 305 189 116 8.3pit2005 389 258 131 8.2rai1976 350 237 113 8.1nyg1990 335 211 124 7.8was1982 190 128 62 6.9nwe2003 348 238 110 6.9sfo1981 357 250 107 6.7rai1983 442 338 104 6.5was1987 379 285 94 6.3clt1970 321 234 87 6.2nwe2001 371 272 99 6.2sfo1988 369 294 75 4.7clt2006 427 360 67 4.2rai1980 364 306 58 3.6nyg2007 373 351 22 1.4
We can also sort the teams by Pythagorean record. The Pythagorean record is calculated by taking the points scored number raised to the 2.37th power, and dividing it by the sum of itself and the points allowed number raised to the 2.37th power. I've got a bit of evidence that indicates that the correct exponent is 2.60 instead of 2.37, but: 1) I'm not sure about that, and it's been on my to-do list to post about deriving the "correct" exponent for awhile; 2) in light of that, I'll go with the more generally accepted 2.37 number, since it doesn't matter too much, anyway. That link gives a full explanation of what the Pythagorean record is and why we should care about it.Additionally, great defensive teams are generally undervalued when using the difference between points scored and points allowed, because a 35-17 win counts for more than a 13-0 win, despite it being reasonable to conclude that the latter win was more impressive or more dominant. Teams like the '02 Bucs, '78 Steelers and '00 Ravens shoot up this list, while the '98 Broncos, '68 Jets and '94 49ers fall a bit.

chi1985 0.878pit1975 0.878mia1973 0.877mia1972 0.873ram1999 0.863gnb1996 0.863was1991 0.862sfo1984 0.852gnb1966 0.846kan1969 0.842rav2000 0.841dal1971 0.807pit1978 0.806tam2002 0.794sfo1989 0.790sfo1994 0.780dal1992 0.775nwe2004 0.774den1997 0.765dal1993 0.764dal1977 0.760den1998 0.759pit1974 0.757gnb1967 0.750pit1979 0.749nyg1990 0.749nyg1986 0.745pit2005 0.726nyj1968 0.722dal1995 0.722was1982 0.718rai1976 0.716nwe2003 0.711sfo1981 0.699clt1970 0.679nwe2001 0.676was1987 0.663rai1983 0.654sfo1988 0.631rai1980 0.601clt2006 0.600nyg2007 0.536Note: by this method, the last two Super Bowl champions were the worst two of all time. The two teams are the only SB champs to allow 350 points in a season. The Giants, of course, have been at the bottom of each list presented here so far. Does that mean New York's the worst SB Champ ever?To the extent that such a consensus exists, I'd posit that most have regarded the 2001 Patriots as the worst SB champion of all time. The 2006 Colts (last before this year's Giants in Pythagorean record) and the '88 49ers (last in actual record, tied with this year's Giants) were led by Manning and Montana, and both players were in their primes. Justifiable or not, that will exclude them from consideration for a majority of commentators. The '67 Packers weren't a very good team record-wide, but were middle of the pack in points differential and Pythagorean record, and were still The Lombardi Packers.

The '80 Raiders are probably the Pats best competitor for the title. The Silver and Black ranked last among the first 41 Super Bowl winners in points differential, third to last in record, and third to last in Pythagorean record. QB Jim Plunkett was never very good, and 1980 wasn't a particularly good year for him, either. Tom Flores won two Super Bowls but few consider him an elite coach, and his sub-.300 winning percentage in Seattle earns him no bonus points. Mark van Eeghen was nothing special (Antowain Smith-like?), and the Raiders ranked in the bottom half of the league in yards gained.

The '01 Patriots? New England ranked 19th in yards gained and 24th in yards allowed. Brady, Belichick, Light and Seymour were all unknowns at this point, and none of them besides Belichick were at an elite level in 2001. Whereas the '80 Raiders won four playoff games by 46 points, New England won its three playoff games by just thirteen points. The Pats beat better post-season opponents, but also won it particularly fluky ways. I think it's a pretty close fight between these two teams for the worst SB Champion ever. New England had four Pro Bowlers, Oakland six. According to the SRS, the Raiders have a +4.2 rating thanks to a slightly harder than average schedule, and the Patriots have a +4.3 rating thanks to a relatively easy schedule. (For first time readers of the blog, you can learn about the SRS here.) This one's a toss up, but do the Giants clearly steal the show?

New York had just one Pro Bowler. While Doug hasn't run the official 2007 SRS ratings yet, my less refined method (that usually comes within a decimal point or two) gives them a +3.3, thanks to having one of the ten hardest schedules in the league. That rating, of course, isn't very good for a Super Bowl champion. The Patriots, according to my preliminary system, rate at +20.1, which would be the highest ever by a wide margin. I've got no doubt that once Doug runs the numbers, New England's SRS rating will blow out every other team's since the merger.

Here's how the thirty-seven champs from 1970-2006 rank according to the SRS:

was1991 16.6chi1985 15.9gnb1996 15.3pit1975 14.2mia1973 13.2nwe2004 12.8sfo1984 12.7pit1979 11.9ram1999 11.9sfo1994 11.6mia1972 11.0den1997 10.7sfo1989 10.7dal1992 9.9dal1971 9.9dal1995 9.7dal1993 9.6nyg1986 9.0den1998 8.9tam2002 8.8rai1976 8.5pit1978 8.2rav2000 8.0dal1977 7.8pit2005 7.8nyg1990 7.7was1982 7.4nwe2003 6.9pit1974 6.8rai1983 6.8sfo1981 6.2clt2006 5.9sfo1988 4.8nwe2001 4.3rai1980 4.2was1987 3.7clt1970 0.4The 2007 Giants will probably rank 2nd to last, or at best, third to last according to the SRS. You might wonder why the '70 Colts rate so poorly on this list; after all, Baltimore ranked 17th in winning percentage, 35th in Pythagorean record and 37th in differential. Well, the '70 Colts had the third easiest schedule of any team from 1970-2006, behind only the '70 Dolphins and the '99 Rams. That team had Unitas and won its three post season games by 30 points, but it certainly belongs in the discussion of the worst SB champion ever.The '87 Skins ranked in the bottom ten in record, differential and Pythagorean record, and rank in the bottom three in SRS rating. If anything, those states are inflated by Washington's 3-0 record and +39 points differential in the three strike games. Washington was fortunate to avoid an excellent 49ers team in the playoffs, and Doug Williams and Jay Schroeder completed just 210 of 410 passes. This was a team with some good stars in their prime (Darrell Green, Gary Clark, Dexter Manley and Charles Mann), but was not a very deep team and won just two-thirds of its games played with non-strike players.

I think the '70 Colts, '80 Raiders, '87 Redskins, '01 Patriots and '07 Giants probably deserve their own subgroup as the five worst Super Bowl Champions of all time. The '88 49ers and '06 Colts might be close to them, but having two of the greatest QBs of all time eliminates them from this category (and no, I'm not being inconsistent; Unitas was in his last year as a starter for the Colts, and Brady was in his first year as a starter for the Pats). I'm trying not to be a Giants hater here, but I don't see how to objectively put this team among the 37 best Super Bowl winners.

I know the Giants of the playoffs were not the Giants of the regular season. New York went 0-4 against Dallas, Green Bay and New England in the regular season, losing by 46 points despite playing three of those games at home; in the playoffs, Big Blue went 3-0 against those opponents. But all Super Bowl Champions played well in the playoffs, right? That's why they went undefeated in the post-season. And fair or not, New York won its playoff games by just 20 points. This was not a dominating post-season by any stretch of the imagination, although I know they three of the four best teams in the league this year. But the thing is, most Super Bowl champions beat the best couple of teams in the league. Here's how the 42 Super Bowl winners rank in terms of margin of victory per game in the playoffs:

sfo1989 3 100 33.3nyg1986 3 82 27.3chi1985 3 81 27.0rai1983 3 73 24.3dal1992 3 69 23.0tam2002 3 69 23.0dal1977 3 64 21.3den1998 3 63 21.0sfo1994 3 62 20.7was1991 3 61 20.3sfo1984 3 56 18.7pit1978 3 56 18.7rav2000 4 72 18.0sfo1988 3 54 18.0mia1973 3 52 17.3gnb1996 3 52 17.3gnb1966 2 32 16.0was1982 4 62 15.5pit1979 3 46 15.3gnb1967 3 44 14.7dal1993 3 44 14.7was1987 3 43 14.3dal1971 3 40 13.3dal1995 3 40 13.3pit1974 3 39 13.0rai1976 3 38 12.7rai1980 4 46 11.5nwe2004 3 34 11.3pit2005 4 45 11.3kan1969 3 33 11.0nyg1990 3 31 10.3clt1970 3 30 10.0clt2006 4 40 10.0den1997 4 39 9.8pit1975 3 28 9.3ram1999 3 24 8.0sfo1981 3 20 6.7nyj1968 2 13 6.5mia1972 3 17 5.7nwe2003 3 16 5.3nyg2007 4 20 5.0nwe2001 3 13 4.3The Giants don't look very good here, and the '72 Dolphins poor showing is one of the larger reasons Miami isn't unanimously (or even generally) considered the best team of all time. The '83 Raiders escape the title of "bad Super Bowl Champion" because of the dominant post-season run, even if Los Angeles has less than impressive peripherals. The '89 49ers are often in the conversation for best team ever, and the dominant playoff performance is a good reason why.The '01 Pats rank at the bottom of the list, and arguably their wins were even less impressive than the margin of victory shows. But New England was probably a better regular season team than the Giants, and beat some excellent playoff teams. I think it's too close to call definitively who was the worst Super Bowl champion of all time: the Colts, Redskins, Raiders, Giants and Pats are all in the mix. But if I had to choose one, I'd go with the Giants. New England, for all the easy knocks against them in 2001, did end up going 11-3 with Brady at the helm, and I'm willing to give them a slight pass for the two "Bledsoe" games.

One final pro-Giants note: I've often heard the '90 Giants called the worst Super Bowl champion ever. That seems really silly, based on this post. I understand that Giants team ranked 15th in the league in points scored, and beat two teams that might have been considered the best ever had they won the Super Bowl. The '90 49ers were gunning for the three-peat, and had started the season 10-0. The Bills were 13-2 before losing a meaningless week 17 game, led the league in points scored, and then scored 95 points in its first two playoff games. Buffalo had nine pro bowlers and a fun offense. Maybe those wins created some resentment for the '90 Giants. But New York ranked tied for 18th best record, and while it ranked 31st in differential, it was 26th in the more telling Pythagorean record statistic. Further, New York didn't even rank in the bottom ten according to SRS, and deserves some credit for beating two very good playoff teams. Those '90 Giants are probably in the bottom half of Super Bowl winners, but definitely aren't in the running for worst ever Super Bowl champ.
:whitecorner: This will be good bathroom reading material
 
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Better to be the worst team with a ring than the best without one.

 
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If they are the "worst" Super Bowl Champion ever,they sure were a part of the "best" Super Bowl game ever. And I have a feeling this Giants team doesn't give a rat's tail as to what the writer thinks,they pretty much wrote off what everyone was saying about them this year anyway. No matter what anyone "thinks" about them the "fact" is they are Champions.

 
IMO, if you value each game evenly (or close to it), then the Giants are going to have a hard time climbing the list of SB victors. Their supporting stats (points allowed, margin of victory, rankings, etc.) also are not very impressive.

The only way that they get any traction is considering who they beat on the way to the title, in which case they are much higher on the food chain.

I personally consider them a team that got hot at the right time but for most of the year they were not that special of a team (no offense to their fan base). Hats off for a great run and a well desrved title, but from Week 1 through Week 21 their body of work was clearly not as decisive as their last few games. As I mentioned, if you look at the season as a whole I can see a case for ranking them as one of the weaker SB champions.

 
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Based on the every team's aggregate FULL SEASON metrics, they are right down there, of course. Much of that exact same analysis went into my making the case a Giants victory would be one of the, if not the, biggest upset in SB history.

But I think we can all agree that the last few seasons at least open the door to arguing that a full 16-game schedule is no longer a great indicator of playoff success. Perhaps because parity has set in thanks to the maturation of the salary cap era, "momentum" has a bigger place at the table than it did in the past. :)

 
IMO, if you value each game evenly (or close to it), then the Giants are going to have a hard time climbing the list of SB victors. Their supporting stats (points allowed, margin of victory, rankings, etc.) also are not very impressive.The only way that they get any traction is considering who they beat on the way to the title, in which case they are much higher on the food chain.I personally consider them a team that got hot at the right time but for most of the year they were not that special of a team (no offense to their fan base). Hats off for a great run and a well desrved title, but from Week 1 through Week 21 their body of work was clearly not as decisive as their last few games. As I mentioned, if you look at the season as a whole I can see a case for ranking them as one of the weaker SB champions.
I agree 100%. A team that got hot and rode the momentum. Not a terrible team by any means, but not one of the strongest that I've seen..
 
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IMO, if you value each game evenly (or close to it), then the Giants are going to have a hard time climbing the list of SB victors. Their supporting stats (points allowed, margin of victory, rakings, etc.) also are not very impressive.

The only way that they get any traction is considering who they beat on the way to the title, in which case they are much higher on the food chain.

I personally consider them a team that got hot at the right time but for most of the year they were not that special of a team (no offense to their fan base). Hats off for a great run and a well desrved title, but from Week 1 through Week 21 their body of work was clearly not as decisive as their last few games. As I mentioned, if you look at the season as a whole I can see a case for ranking them as one of the weaker SB champions.
Their supporting stats aren't just not very impressive; they're the worst of all 42 Super Bowl champs.Obviously they beat a better than average Super Bowl opponent; I'm not convinced they beat a significantly better than average championship game opponent. The 2006 Pats, 2004 Steelers, 2003 Colts were all better than the 2007 Packers, IMO.

 
Based on the every team's aggregate FULL SEASON metrics, they are right down there, of course. Much of that exact same analysis went into my making the case a Giants victory would be one of the, if not the, biggest upset in SB history.But I think we can all agree that the last few seasons at least open the door to arguing that a full 16-game schedule is no longer a great indicator of playoff success. Perhaps because parity has set in thanks to the maturation of the salary cap era, "momentum" has a bigger place at the table than it did in the past. :shrug:
GB, I'm not sure the Giants playoff success is much more impressive. Of the 42 Super Bowl champions, the Giants rank 41st in margin of victory in the playoffs. I'm also not sure if I agree with your second point. The 2005 Steelers were an excellent team that had a "bad" regular season record because its QB got hurt; the 2006 Colts were an excellent team that had a "bad" regular season record because the defensive player of the year got hurt. Both those teams had the #1 records in the NFL the year prior. And obviously in '03 and '04, the #1 seed in the stronger conference won the Super Bowl.This year is the outlier.
 
GB, I'm not sure the Giants playoff success is much more impressive. Of the 42 Super Bowl champions, the Giants rank 41st in margin of victory in the playoffs.
Very true. The Giants impressive postseason run was about the quality of their opponents, not about how much they won by, and as I have said before, historically, the best teams in NFL history were almost always dominant postseason teams.
 
The Giants are a very unique case. Are they the 10-6 team that had some big struggles during the season - but also was neck and neck with Dallas until they lost to Dallas as far as best team in the NFC in many people's eyes.

Or are they the team who had an improbable run that included beating 4 Pro Bowl QBs, Four Divsion winners, the "almost" greatest team ever holding the best offense ever to 14 pts, all wins on the road/away from home including spectacular defense and exceptionally clutch offense that responded whenever needed?

My guess is they are somewhere in between, and because of that toward the bottom of the Super Bowl winners - but I can't put them at THE bottom because the team that won the Super Bowl is simply not the team that had such huge struggles at times during the season.

 
The Giants are a very unique case. Are they the 10-6 team that had some big struggles during the season - but also was neck and neck with Dallas until they lost to Dallas as far as best team in the NFC in many people's eyes.Or are they the team who had an improbable run that included beating 4 Pro Bowl QBs, Four Divsion winners, the "almost" greatest team ever holding the best offense ever to 14 pts, all wins on the road/away from home including spectacular defense and exceptionally clutch offense that responded whenever needed?My guess is they are somewhere in between, and because of that toward the bottom of the Super Bowl winners - but I can't put them at THE bottom because the team that won the Super Bowl is simply not the team that had such huge struggles at times during the season.
When ranking teams on an all time list, how they fare during the season is a big part of that. No one claims the '86 Giants or the '83 Raiders -- teams with two of the best four post-season margins of victories ever -- as the best team of all time. The fact that New York had such huge struggles during the season is why they're the worst SB champion ever, I think. No other SB champ has ever struggled that badly.
 
IMO, if you value each game evenly (or close to it), then the Giants are going to have a hard time climbing the list of SB victors. Their supporting stats (points allowed, margin of victory, rakings, etc.) also are not very impressive.

The only way that they get any traction is considering who they beat on the way to the title, in which case they are much higher on the food chain.

I personally consider them a team that got hot at the right time but for most of the year they were not that special of a team (no offense to their fan base). Hats off for a great run and a well desrved title, but from Week 1 through Week 21 their body of work was clearly not as decisive as their last few games. As I mentioned, if you look at the season as a whole I can see a case for ranking them as one of the weaker SB champions.
Their supporting stats aren't just not very impressive; they're the worst of all 42 Super Bowl champs.Obviously they beat a better than average Super Bowl opponent; I'm not convinced they beat a significantly better than average championship game opponent. The 2006 Pats, 2004 Steelers, 2003 Colts were all better than the 2007 Packers, IMO.
I know what the numbers show. I was being politically correct in not being as brazen as you in this case. As I said, some folks on the board count the regular season 50% and the post season 50% in ranking team success. Using basic math (which I think even lawyers can understand), if their regular season was evaluated as a 50 on a 100 point scale and their post season was evaluated as a 100 on a 100 point scale that would get them an overall score of 75 in such a system.

If you count each game evenly for all 20 games using the scores (50 for the regular season games and 100 for the post season games), then their overall score would only be a 60. Obviously a big difference.

As I suggested in the other SB winners thread, I suspect that history will remember the 07 Pats higher on the food chain of teams than the 07 Giants even though the G-Men won the SB.

 
IMO, if you value each game evenly (or close to it), then the Giants are going to have a hard time climbing the list of SB victors. Their supporting stats (points allowed, margin of victory, rakings, etc.) also are not very impressive.

The only way that they get any traction is considering who they beat on the way to the title, in which case they are much higher on the food chain.

I personally consider them a team that got hot at the right time but for most of the year they were not that special of a team (no offense to their fan base). Hats off for a great run and a well desrved title, but from Week 1 through Week 21 their body of work was clearly not as decisive as their last few games. As I mentioned, if you look at the season as a whole I can see a case for ranking them as one of the weaker SB champions.
Their supporting stats aren't just not very impressive; they're the worst of all 42 Super Bowl champs.Obviously they beat a better than average Super Bowl opponent; I'm not convinced they beat a significantly better than average championship game opponent. The 2006 Pats, 2004 Steelers, 2003 Colts were all better than the 2007 Packers, IMO.
I know what the numbers show. I was being politically correct in not being as brazen as you in this case. As I said, some folks on the board count the regular season 50% and the post season 50% in ranking team success. Using basic math (which I think even lawyers can understand), if their regular season was evaluated as a 50 on a 100 point scale and their post season was evaluated as a 100 on a 100 point scale that would get them an overall score of 75 in such a system.

If you count each game evenly for all 20 games using the scores (50 for the regular season games and 100 for the post season games), then their overall score would only be a 60. Obviously a big difference.

As I suggested in the other SB winners thread, I suspect that history will remember the 07 Pats higher on the food chain of teams than the 07 Giants even though the G-Men won the SB.
I don't think the Giants postseason would be a 100 on a 100 point scale. It might even be below average for all Super Bowl winners.Their level of competition was better than average, but their wins were so far from dominant that I think a good number of teams with worse schedules and more impressive wins would jump them.

 
I definitely agree the 1987 Redskins should be on that list. Of the five Redskins teams to make the Super Bowl, this is easily the worst of the five, though obviously they won and two "superior" teams lost. I also agree that the biggest break they got was Minnesota knocking off the 49'ers in the divisional round. I remember thinking at the time that that was a huge break that greatly improved their chances to make the Super Bowl. It still took a Darrell Green highlight reel punt return for TD at Chicago and a pass breakup - again by Green - on 4th down at the goalline the following week to make the Super Bowl.

Also, while they lit up Denver in the Super Bowl, their comeback from 10-0 was at the time the largest in Super Bowl history, and they were very wobbly against Elway and could very well have been down by more. The ridiculous 35 point 2nd quarter was amazing, but it was against an overmatched, undersized Broncos defense that was missing IIRC two starters from its defensive secondary.

It was definitely a fun ride as a 'Skins fan - it always feels good to steal what ain't yours - but a very good argument can be made that they were only the 4th best team in their conference that year.

 
Ravens 2000-2001
How can the team with a top 2 defense of all time be the worst team. I might give you one of the worst offenses, but they're special teams and defenses were superb. They were actually 3.5 point favorites to win the game.I wouldn't put the Ravens as one of the greatest teams, but I wouldn't put them as the worst ever to win the Sb.
 
They beat a previously undefeated team. No way can they be the worst ever.
So if the Ravens aren't given a timeout (which they shouldn't have been given), the Giants can be the worst SB team ever. But if the ref makes that mistake, and NE goes on to win, the Giants can't be the worst SB team ever?
 
If the Patriots win, they're the greatest SB champs of all time. The Giants beat them. Therefore the Giants are the greatest SB champs of all time. Think about it.

 
This Giants team would woop the 2001 Patriots and several of those teams. Defense trumps a heck of a lot in the playoffs.

 
This Giants team would woop the 2001 Patriots and several of those teams. Defense trumps a heck of a lot in the playoffs.
The Giants ranked 7th in yards allowed and 17th in points allowed. Lots of Super Bowl winners had better numbers than that.
 
Even though I'm a Colts fan, you have to take the Super Bowl V champion Colts as the worst Super Bowl team ever. Hell, it's the only Super Bowl that produced the MVP from the losing team for crying out loud. It's also fondly known as the "Blooper Bowl" with all the turnovers and poor play.

 
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This Giants team would woop the 2001 Patriots and several of those teams. Defense trumps a heck of a lot in the playoffs.
The Giants ranked 7th in yards allowed and 17th in points allowed. Lots of Super Bowl winners had better numbers than that.
Against the greatest offense of all time. If you hold Jordan to 30 points, you're playing pretty damned good defense. How did the Giants fare versus the Pats season average? Spectacularly. Not to mention the rest of their playoff run was pretty darn good.
 
Chase Stuart said:
mbuehner said:
This Giants team would woop the 2001 Patriots and several of those teams. Defense trumps a heck of a lot in the playoffs.
The Giants ranked 7th in yards allowed and 17th in points allowed. Lots of Super Bowl winners had better numbers than that.
Again, the Giants that won the SB were not the Giants we saw for much of the season. So which are we judging? If we judge them on the season, they wouldnt even be IN the Super Bowl. The fact that they not only got there but WON tells me we must judge the Giants at least with a significant focus on the post season and the team they became, not the team that was.
 
If the Giants had taken a screwy win in this, they would be very much in consideration for worst of all time. But their dominating nature of their D for much of the game against the highest scoring offense of all time gets them out of the cellar.

I'm going with the 01 Patriots. I literally remember their first two games that year, I'm pretty sure they took the collar in one of them, and thinking, this literally might be the worst team ever, and thinking they could go 0-16 they looked so awful on both sides of the ball(shows you what I know). And please don't think I'm hating on these guys, at this point they were actually pretty fun to root for a scrappy underdog, but they really shouldn't have gotten past Oakland with the tuck rule B.S., it didn't feel like they beat Pitt so much as Pitt couldn't win a big home game in the playoffs and in the Bowl, the Rams played like garbage and it still came down to Viniteri. If that video surfaces of a taped walk through, I think that would explain a lot of that result and catapault them to the top of the list.

 
the 05 Steelers... amazing run to get there; then they were just avg and won the game on a few bad calls and a trick play.

Grant it, they were the the underdog... but they played like trash. Didn't Ben have the lowest QB rating of any SB winner ever?

FWP had a nice game with a huge run... longest ever in the SB I think?

 
Chase Stuart said:
mbuehner said:
This Giants team would woop the 2001 Patriots and several of those teams. Defense trumps a heck of a lot in the playoffs.
The Giants ranked 7th in yards allowed and 17th in points allowed. Lots of Super Bowl winners had better numbers than that.
Again, the Giants that won the SB were not the Giants we saw for much of the season. So which are we judging? If we judge them on the season, they wouldnt even be IN the Super Bowl. The fact that they not only got there but WON tells me we must judge the Giants at least with a significant focus on the post season and the team they became, not the team that was.
Okay. Which SB winners do you think were worse?
 
the 05 Steelers... amazing run to get there; then they were just avg and won the game on a few bad calls and a trick play. Grant it, they were the the underdog... but they played like trash. Didn't Ben have the lowest QB rating of any SB winner ever?FWP had a nice game with a huge run... longest ever in the SB I think?
That's a good one too... They barely got by the Jets on a prayer....That stadium was in silence and Bettis was crying.. I guess that's not quite as good as the fat Lady Singing.
 
If the Giants had taken a screwy win in this, they would be very much in consideration for worst of all time. But their dominating nature of their D for much of the game against the highest scoring offense of all time gets them out of the cellar. I'm going with the 01 Patriots. I literally remember their first two games that year, I'm pretty sure they took the collar in one of them, and thinking, this literally might be the worst team ever, and thinking they could go 0-16 they looked so awful on both sides of the ball(shows you what I know). And please don't think I'm hating on these guys, at this point they were actually pretty fun to root for a scrappy underdog, but they really shouldn't have gotten past Oakland with the tuck rule B.S., it didn't feel like they beat Pitt so much as Pitt couldn't win a big home game in the playoffs and in the Bowl, the Rams played like garbage and it still came down to Viniteri. If that video surfaces of a taped walk through, I think that would explain a lot of that result and catapault them to the top of the list.
I have no dog in this fight, but you seem to be overlooking the Giants sparkling start to the 07 season, allowing 80 points in their first two games.
 
the 05 Steelers... amazing run to get there; then they were just avg and won the game on a few bad calls and a trick play. Grant it, they were the the underdog... but they played like trash. Didn't Ben have the lowest QB rating of any SB winner ever?FWP had a nice game with a huge run... longest ever in the SB I think?
The '05 Steelers were definitely worse in the SB but were also a much more talented team. If you judge champions just on SB performance -- an absurd notion -- then I'd rank the '05 Steelers in the bottom three all time.
 
the 05 Steelers... amazing run to get there; then they were just avg and won the game on a few bad calls and a trick play. Grant it, they were the the underdog... but they played like trash. Didn't Ben have the lowest QB rating of any SB winner ever?FWP had a nice game with a huge run... longest ever in the SB I think?
That's a good one too... They barely got by the Jets on a prayer....That stadium was in silence and Bettis was crying.. I guess that's not quite as good as the fat Lady Singing.
Wrong season.
 
If the Giants had taken a screwy win in this, they would be very much in consideration for worst of all time. But their dominating nature of their D for much of the game against the highest scoring offense of all time gets them out of the cellar. I'm going with the 01 Patriots. I literally remember their first two games that year, I'm pretty sure they took the collar in one of them, and thinking, this literally might be the worst team ever, and thinking they could go 0-16 they looked so awful on both sides of the ball(shows you what I know). And please don't think I'm hating on these guys, at this point they were actually pretty fun to root for a scrappy underdog, but they really shouldn't have gotten past Oakland with the tuck rule B.S., it didn't feel like they beat Pitt so much as Pitt couldn't win a big home game in the playoffs and in the Bowl, the Rams played like garbage and it still came down to Viniteri. If that video surfaces of a taped walk through, I think that would explain a lot of that result and catapault them to the top of the list.
:bow: Before that season, I believe it was Pro Football Weekly that declared that franchise the worst in the NFL...... After that Super Bowl, the voting for worst SB Champ ever was a run away with this team...They had a horseshoe in their collective asses that season.Yeah, they grew up to be a great team and franchise but, this win was before it's time.
 
the 05 Steelers... amazing run to get there; then they were just avg and won the game on a few bad calls and a trick play. Grant it, they were the the underdog... but they played like trash. Didn't Ben have the lowest QB rating of any SB winner ever?FWP had a nice game with a huge run... longest ever in the SB I think?
That's a good one too... They barely got by the Jets on a prayer....That stadium was in silence and Bettis was crying.. I guess that's not quite as good as the fat Lady Singing.
Wrong season.
Oops.. I thought the Steelers went on to win after that....You are correct, that was the year before......
 
If the Giants had taken a screwy win in this, they would be very much in consideration for worst of all time. But their dominating nature of their D for much of the game against the highest scoring offense of all time gets them out of the cellar. I'm going with the 01 Patriots. I literally remember their first two games that year, I'm pretty sure they took the collar in one of them, and thinking, this literally might be the worst team ever, and thinking they could go 0-16 they looked so awful on both sides of the ball(shows you what I know). And please don't think I'm hating on these guys, at this point they were actually pretty fun to root for a scrappy underdog, but they really shouldn't have gotten past Oakland with the tuck rule B.S., it didn't feel like they beat Pitt so much as Pitt couldn't win a big home game in the playoffs and in the Bowl, the Rams played like garbage and it still came down to Viniteri. If that video surfaces of a taped walk through, I think that would explain a lot of that result and catapault them to the top of the list.
:bow: Before that season, I believe it was Pro Football Weekly that declared that franchise the worst in the NFL...... After that Super Bowl, the voting for worst SB Champ ever was a run away with this team...They had a horseshoe in their collective asses that season.Yeah, they grew up to be a great team and franchise but, this win was before it's time.
I agree with a lot of that. But consider:New England: 371 points scored, 271 points allowed. The team averaged 25 PPG in the Brady part of the season (last fourteen games).New York: 373 points scored, 351 points allowed. If you want to give them a pass for the first two weeks -- Strahan holdout, they still allowed 19.4 PPG the last fourteen weeks.Now the Giants had a tougher schedule, I think, than the '01 Pats. But New England *did* outscore its opponents by 99 points, and then beat a string of impressive teams (thanks to an incredible amount of luck) in the post-season. I think New England, the Giants, the '80 Raiders, '70 Colts and '87 Skins were all merely good teams that got hot/lucky. I think they're in their own tier.
 
Hmm...

You cant just take two teams and match up their personel for a question like this. The Giants defense, particularly the front four, is so dominating it takes most of the other teams offense out of the equation.

But coaching has to play a big role- the Patriots really got outcoached and i dont know if that happens against other teams. The 05 Steelers could have really slowed down that pass rush with their patent screen plays and quick pass attack. Even now i'm scratching my head as to why it took the Patriots 3 and a half quarters to start throwing a 2 step drop to Moss and Welker and letting them run. A lot of teams wouldnt have been so stubborn about making adjustments I think.

 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--

* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs

* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the road

Anyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.

 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the roadAnyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.
Do you think there is a worst super bowl winner ever?
 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the roadAnyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.
Do you think there is a worst super bowl winner ever?
I'd rather be the worst team to win onethan the best team to not win one
 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the roadAnyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.
Do you think there is a worst super bowl winner ever?
It doesn't matter as it's all opinion anyway. But if you're going strictly by numbers, the numbers I mentioned have to be included in the discussion IMO.
 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the roadAnyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.
Do you think there is a worst super bowl winner ever?
I'd rather be the worst team to win onethan the best team to not win one
I think everyone would agree with that.
 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the roadAnyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.
Do you think there is a worst super bowl winner ever?
I'd rather be the worst team to win onethan the best team to not win one
A Charger fan would know that, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, SNAP! :goodposting:
 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the roadAnyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.
Do you think there is a worst super bowl winner ever?
It doesn't matter as it's all opinion anyway. But if you're going strictly by numbers, the numbers I mentioned have to be included in the discussion IMO.
My point is that it's hard to say the Giants aren't the worst SB winner ever if you don't say who is.Want to vote for the '01 Pats? Well..* Won 9 straight games* Beat the top AFC and top NFC team* Didn't have a losing record at home ;) * Was 14-3 with Brady at QB* Scored 99 more points than they allowed* Didn't allow more than 17 points in a playoff gameThe '70 Colts?* Lost one of their last 15 games* Allowed 10 PPG in the playoffs* QB'ed by arguably the greatest QB of all time, not by arguably the greatest QB's of all time brother ;)Every team that wins the SB has lots of great stats, streaks and records. Otherwise, they wouldn't have won the SB.
 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the roadAnyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.
The winning however many games in a row on the road thing IMO is not an area that really helps the Giants. I personally don't count the SB as a road game as that is not the same as playing on enemy turf.I give you the road playoff games to an extent (in that they won them), but they were not exactly crushing their post season foes by a lot of points.However, their regular season road winning streak included victories over:4-12 ATL1-15 MIA7-9 DET7-9 CHI8-8 PHI7-9 BUFEvenif we count the SB as a road game, in those 11 games they won 8 of them by a TD or less. If the earlier Pats teams got points off for not winning big, the Giants need to also.
 
You can have your numbers. I'll give you some of my own--* Won 11 straight games on the road this season, including 4 in the playoffs* Beat the teams with the top 3 records in the NFL this year - on the roadAnyone who truly beleives they are the worst superbowl winner ever lives in a world of their own.
Do you think there is a worst super bowl winner ever?
I'd rather be the worst team to win onethan the best team to not win one
A Charger fan would know that, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, SNAP! :goodposting:
why ya gotta hurt me cowboy?
 

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