wow: jax no pro bowlers (1 Viewer)

[pollardsvision]

not saying anybody got snubbed really, just that it's a pretty impressive feat.

this what i call a "team".

alot of it has to do with some of the better players missing games and splitting time.

fred taylor is 6th in the league in rushing (ahead of addai), averaging 5 YPC, and has come up huge in big games (most recently, running all over the steelers in pitt.) but his splitting time kept him out (b/c he only has 6 TDs).

i think garrard would've been close, had he not missed 3 games and/or had a recognizable name. (he did just outduel "ben" in "ben's" own house)

the best chance for a probowler would've been mike peterson, but he's missed alot of time.

the DTs also both missed a little time (though not as much as that dirty haynesworth).

it's amazing that this is a 10-4 team with no one that i could make a really good argument should've made the probowl (and i'm biased).

no one realizes it (b/c no one pays attention to jax), but this team, mainly the defense, has had a ton of injuries all year (peterson, haward, mccray, sensabaugh, stroud, henderson, meester, garrard) and just kept rolling along. it's a pretty deep team.

not a big point to this thread. just felt like spewing some jaguars love this morning.

 

[moondawg]

Perfect example on why fans should not be allowed to vote for Pro Bowlers.

 

[redman]

FT should be in.

 

[Despyzer]

Same thing happened to Tampa Bay. In the NFC, I'd put them only behind Dallas, Green Bay, and maybe Seattle.

 

[Stewy]

Fred Taylor should have made it for sure. I can't believe he has never made the pro-bowl in his career. That seems like such a farce.

 

[reg]

Perfect example on why fans should not be allowed to vote for Pro Bowlers.

Fan voting only counts for 1/3. Players/Coachers make up the other 2/3.

 

[Despyzer]

Fred Taylor should have made it for sure.

Which RB would you omit? Tomlinson, Parker, or Addai? This has been the primary reason that he hasn't made it. He's very good, just not as good as his contemporaries.

 

[redman]

Fred Taylor should have made it for sure.

Which RB would you omit? Tomlinson, Parker, or Addai? This has been the primary reason that he hasn't made it. He's very good, just not as good as his contemporaries.

Honestly I'm not all that impressed by Parker. His yards are more a product of number of carries than anything else, and he never gets into the end zone.

 

[moondawg]

Perfect example on why fans should not be allowed to vote for Pro Bowlers.

Fan voting only counts for 1/3. Players/Coachers make up the other 2/3.

Correct but that 1/3 can easily skew the final results in a negative manor IMO.

 

[Fantasy Bum]

Fred Taylor should have made it for sure.

Which RB would you omit? Tomlinson, Parker, or Addai? This has been the primary reason that he hasn't made it. He's very good, just not as good as his contemporaries.

Oh...he is as good as his peers. He is just in a RBBC situation which limits his overall numbers. Yards Per Carry (YPC):Fred Taylor 5.1 (216 for 1091)LaDainian Tomlinson 4.7 (280 for 1311)Brian Westbrook 4.7 (254 for 1191)Joseph Addai 4.1 (251 for 1019)Willie Parker 4.1 (320 for 1317)He gets my vote! If you equate his carries to the rest of these guys, Fred's looking pretty damn good to me.

 

[pollardsvision]

i'd love to see freddy get it, but it's a tough call all-around (i wouldn't say leaving him out is a farse)

there's no question about LT.

although willie is averaging a whole yard less per carry than freddy and only has 2 TDs, you can't really argue against the leagues leading rusher. obviously, he's only the leagues leading rusher b/c of his 320 carries, but 320 carries through 14 games is difficult to do (i doubt freddy could hold up). he's a bell cow and obviously deserving.

personally, i think you could argue for freddy, mcgahee, or jamal all over addai. all have more yards. all have a higher YPC or the same as addai (i would call 4.1 YPC for a colt RB mediocre, by the way). addai has alot of TDs, but, personally, i think the TDs are a bit over-rated.

with 4 guys so close for 1 spot, i would've liked to have seen freddy get it just give an old guy a probowl for the mantel.

i can't argue against anyone that made it, but obviously, in a close call, it's going to go to someone from indy, dallas, NE, or pitt (that's where the 1/3 fan voting comes in).

compared to the nba and mlb, nfl pro bowl voting is brilliant.

in the nfl, there will always be close calls b/w deserving players, but it's always sensible.

the nba all-star voting is ludicrous every year.

in mlb, the voting is completely biased as baseball is vastly more important in 2 cities (NY and boston) than it is in the rest.

 

[redman]

although willie is averaging a whole yard less per carry than freddy and only has 2 TDs, you can't really argue against the leagues leading rusher. obviously, he's only the leagues leading rusher b/c of his 320 carries, but 320 carries through 14 games is difficult to do (i doubt freddy could hold up). he's a bell cow and obviously deserving.

Since when is 320 carries through 14 games a staggering total? What's he on pace for? 370? He's rushing at a league average pace and not scoring.

 

[angman]

As if the Jags needed anymore motivation to try to physically destroy some teams in the playoffs.

 

[menobrown]

The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest and the Jags are not popular but that had nothing to do with Fred Taylor not making the pro bowl, he was just not as good as the other RB's.

 

[Despyzer]

although willie is averaging a whole yard less per carry than freddy and only has 2 TDs, you can't really argue against the leagues leading rusher. obviously, he's only the leagues leading rusher b/c of his 320 carries, but 320 carries through 14 games is difficult to do (i doubt freddy could hold up). he's a bell cow and obviously deserving.

Since when is 320 carries through 14 games a staggering total? What's he on pace for? 370? He's rushing at a league average pace and not scoring.

I've got no problem with Parker's inclusion. I think maintaining the league average while hauling the rock more times than anyone else has its own worth. Of course it is nothing but speculation, but I don't think Taylor would be averaging nearly as many yards per carry if he had to do it as often as Parker.

 

[redman]

although willie is averaging a whole yard less per carry than freddy and only has 2 TDs, you can't really argue against the leagues leading rusher. obviously, he's only the leagues leading rusher b/c of his 320 carries, but 320 carries through 14 games is difficult to do (i doubt freddy could hold up). he's a bell cow and obviously deserving.

Since when is 320 carries through 14 games a staggering total? What's he on pace for? 370? He's rushing at a league average pace and not scoring.

I've got no problem with Parker's inclusion. I think maintaining the league average while hauling the rock more times than anyone else has its own worth. Of course it is nothing but speculation, but I don't think Taylor would be averaging nearly as many yards per carry if he had to do it as often as Parker.

I know he'd be averaging more than Parker, and he'd have a hell of a lot more TD's too.

 

[Despyzer]

although willie is averaging a whole yard less per carry than freddy and only has 2 TDs, you can't really argue against the leagues leading rusher. obviously, he's only the leagues leading rusher b/c of his 320 carries, but 320 carries through 14 games is difficult to do (i doubt freddy could hold up). he's a bell cow and obviously deserving.

Since when is 320 carries through 14 games a staggering total? What's he on pace for? 370? He's rushing at a league average pace and not scoring.

I've got no problem with Parker's inclusion. I think maintaining the league average while hauling the rock more times than anyone else has its own worth. Of course it is nothing but speculation, but I don't think Taylor would be averaging nearly as many yards per carry if he had to do it as often as Parker.

I know he'd be averaging more than Parker, and he'd have a hell of a lot more TD's too.

It's certainly possible. I have a hard time crediting him for something he didn't do though. And yes, I realize the irony of penalizing him for something he hasn't done also, but I'll give preference to the guy with more reps every time with the assumption that there is probably a very good reason he is getting more reps.

 

[sho nuff]

Fred has had a great year...but really...if you are not going to put him in over the leading rusher (Parker)...you can't put him in.

While he outdoes Addai in yards (in one more game...but yes, with fewer carries)....Addai adds 38 receptions for 351 yards...Taylor has 9 receptions for 58 yards. That is the difference that bumps Addai in IMO more than just the TDs.

 

[redman]

although willie is averaging a whole yard less per carry than freddy and only has 2 TDs, you can't really argue against the leagues leading rusher. obviously, he's only the leagues leading rusher b/c of his 320 carries, but 320 carries through 14 games is difficult to do (i doubt freddy could hold up). he's a bell cow and obviously deserving.

Since when is 320 carries through 14 games a staggering total? What's he on pace for? 370? He's rushing at a league average pace and not scoring.

I've got no problem with Parker's inclusion. I think maintaining the league average while hauling the rock more times than anyone else has its own worth. Of course it is nothing but speculation, but I don't think Taylor would be averaging nearly as many yards per carry if he had to do it as often as Parker.

I know he'd be averaging more than Parker, and he'd have a hell of a lot more TD's too.

It's certainly possible. I have a hard time crediting him for something he didn't do though. And yes, I realize the irony of penalizing him for something he hasn't done also, but I'll give preference to the guy with more reps every time with the assumption that there is probably a very good reason he is getting more reps.

C'mon, man, this is even a bad year by FWP standards:

Rushing	  Receiving	   	Year 	Age 	Tm 	Pos 	G 	GS 	Att 	Yds 	TD 	Lng 	Y/A 	Y/G 	A/G 	Rec 	Yds 	Y/R 	TD 	Lng 	R/G 	Y/G 	YScm 	RRTD 	Fmb2004 	24 	PIT 		8 	0 	32 	186 	0 	58 	5.8 	23.3 	4.0 	3 	16 	5.3 	0 	12 	0.4 	2.0 	202 	0 	02005 	25 	PIT 	RB 	15 	15 	255 	1202 	4 	80 	4.7 	80.1 	17.0 	18 	218 	12.1 	1 	48 	1.2 	14.5 	1420 	5 	42006* 	26 	PIT 	RB 	16 	16 	337 	1494 	13 	76 	4.4 	93.4 	21.1 	31 	222 	7.2 	3 	25 	1.9 	13.9 	1716 	16 	72007 	27 	PIT 		14 	0 	320 	1317 	2 	0 	4.1 	94.1 	22.9 	23 	164 	7.1 	0 	0 	1.6 	11.7 	1481 	2 	4Career 				53 	31 	944 	4199 	19 	80 	4.4 	79.2 	17.8 	75 	620 	8.3 	4 	48 	1.4 	11.7 	4819 	23 	15

Arguing for FWP in the Pro Bowl this year is like arguing for Vinny Testaverde for the Hall of Fame.Edit - damn, the new PFR formats like crap!

 

[Despyzer]

C'mon, man, this is even a bad year by FWP standards

Okay, now I am confused. It's a sub-par year for Tomlinson as well. Does that mean he shouldn't go either? I thought this was awarded according to competition amongst peers, not competition against past performance.

 

[menobrown]

C'mon, man, this is even a bad year by FWP standards:

 

[redman]

C'mon, man, this is even a bad year by FWP standards

Okay, now I am confused. It's a sub-par year for Tomlinson as well. Does that mean he shouldn't go either? I thought this was awarded according to competition amongst peers, not competition against past performance.

Don't be disingenuous - I didn't say that was the only criteria. I've already said his numbers aren't impressive when comared to the league, something that's not the case with LT. The fact that, in light of that, he's having a down year even by his own standards speaks volumes.

 

[massraider]

I figured Jax's best chance would be Rashean Mathis, and one of the DT's.

 

[candy bar]

Perfect example on why fans should not be allowed to vote for Pro Bowlers.

As if players/coaches are better judges? :eyeroll:

 

[The Kansas Comet]

I figured Jax's best chance would be Rashean Mathis, and one of the DT's.

Me too - figured Mathis would get in somehow.And I would have selected Taylor over Parker.

 

[TitusIII]

Fred Taylor should have made it for sure.

Which RB would you omit? Tomlinson, Parker, or Addai? This has been the primary reason that he hasn't made it. He's very good, just not as good as his contemporaries.

Stats aside, I think has been the 2nd most talented back in the AFC for quite some time, probably the best before LT arrived. Guy is simply the epitome of the modern day RB...imo, this is a ridiculous snub

 

[Despyzer]

Stats aside, I think has been the 2nd most talented back in the AFC for quite some time, probably the best before LT arrived. Guy is simply the epitome of the modern day RB...imo, this is a ridiculous snub

I'm not buying it. In his rookie year, he wasn't as good as Terrell Davis or Marshal Faulk. He didn't have enough games under his belt to be a serious contender the next year. In 2000, he wasn't as good as Marshal Faulk or Edgerrin James. He only played 2 games the next year. The next year he wasn't as good as Tomlinson or Priest Holmes. In 2003, Tomlinson couldn't even beat out Portis, Holmes, and Jamal Lewis. Taylor didn't have a prayer that year. In 2004, he wasn't as good as Tomlinson, James, or Corey Dillon. He didn't have enough games for proper consideration the next year. He wasn't as good as Tomlinson and Larry Johnson last year.This is really the first year he might have a claim as the 2nd best AFC back, but even then it would be at the expense of the rushing leader and a guy who has almost as many yards as the rushing leader and a bunch of TDs.

 

[Wadsworth]

Stats aside, I think has been the 2nd most talented back in the AFC for quite some time, probably the best before LT arrived. Guy is simply the epitome of the modern day RB...imo, this is a ridiculous snub

I'm not buying it. In his rookie year, he wasn't as good as Terrell Davis or Marshal Faulk. He didn't have enough games under his belt to be a serious contender the next year. In 2000, he wasn't as good as Marshal Faulk or Edgerrin James. He only played 2 games the next year. The next year he wasn't as good as Tomlinson or Priest Holmes. In 2003, Tomlinson couldn't even beat out Portis, Holmes, and Jamal Lewis. Taylor didn't have a prayer that year. In 2004, he wasn't as good as Tomlinson, James, or Corey Dillon. He didn't have enough games for proper consideration the next year. He wasn't as good as Tomlinson and Larry Johnson last year.This is really the first year he might have a claim as the 2nd best AFC back, but even then it would be at the expense of the rushing leader and a guy who has almost as many yards as the rushing leader and a bunch of TDs.

He said "2nd most talented" not second best stats. Talent is of course not easy to measure and amazingly easy to debate. Fred's career stats are certainly more impressive than any individual season stats. You can choose to judge that to mean he's been good but not great for a long time or you can choose to think that he's extremely talented and never had the breaks to have that one huge season. An interesting stat when comparing Fred's season production to other backs is that Fred has only been over 300 carries once in his career.

 

[Despyzer]

Stats aside, I think has been the 2nd most talented back in the AFC for quite some time, probably the best before LT arrived. Guy is simply the epitome of the modern day RB...imo, this is a ridiculous snub

I'm not buying it. In his rookie year, he wasn't as good as Terrell Davis or Marshal Faulk. He didn't have enough games under his belt to be a serious contender the next year. In 2000, he wasn't as good as Marshal Faulk or Edgerrin James. He only played 2 games the next year. The next year he wasn't as good as Tomlinson or Priest Holmes. In 2003, Tomlinson couldn't even beat out Portis, Holmes, and Jamal Lewis. Taylor didn't have a prayer that year. In 2004, he wasn't as good as Tomlinson, James, or Corey Dillon. He didn't have enough games for proper consideration the next year. He wasn't as good as Tomlinson and Larry Johnson last year.This is really the first year he might have a claim as the 2nd best AFC back, but even then it would be at the expense of the rushing leader and a guy who has almost as many yards as the rushing leader and a bunch of TDs.

He said "2nd most talented" not second best stats. Talent is of course not easy to measure and amazingly easy to debate. Fred's career stats are certainly more impressive than any individual season stats. You can choose to judge that to mean he's been good but not great for a long time or you can choose to think that he's extremely talented and never had the breaks to have that one huge season. An interesting stat when comparing Fred's season production to other backs is that Fred has only been over 300 carries once in his career.

I really didn't list any stats. I just stated who seemed to be the best backs in those given years. I think it would be very difficult to make a strong case that Taylor was better than any of those backs during those seasons.

 

[redman]

Stats aside, I think has been the 2nd most talented back in the AFC for quite some time, probably the best before LT arrived. Guy is simply the epitome of the modern day RB...imo, this is a ridiculous snub

I'm not buying it. In his rookie year, he wasn't as good as Terrell Davis or Marshal Faulk. He didn't have enough games under his belt to be a serious contender the next year. In 2000, he wasn't as good as Marshal Faulk or Edgerrin James. He only played 2 games the next year. The next year he wasn't as good as Tomlinson or Priest Holmes. In 2003, Tomlinson couldn't even beat out Portis, Holmes, and Jamal Lewis. Taylor didn't have a prayer that year. In 2004, he wasn't as good as Tomlinson, James, or Corey Dillon. He didn't have enough games for proper consideration the next year. He wasn't as good as Tomlinson and Larry Johnson last year.This is really the first year he might have a claim as the 2nd best AFC back, but even then it would be at the expense of the rushing leader and a guy who has almost as many yards as the rushing leader and a bunch of TDs.

He said "2nd most talented" not second best stats. Talent is of course not easy to measure and amazingly easy to debate. Fred's career stats are certainly more impressive than any individual season stats. You can choose to judge that to mean he's been good but not great for a long time or you can choose to think that he's extremely talented and never had the breaks to have that one huge season. An interesting stat when comparing Fred's season production to other backs is that Fred has only been over 300 carries once in his career.

I really didn't list any stats. I just stated who seemed to be the best backs in those given years. I think it would be very difficult to make a strong case that Taylor was better than any of those backs during those seasons.

Something to consider:In the Tour de France, if you finish 3rd in every stage, you have a pretty good chance of winning the race. I agree with you that FT may well not have been the best AFC RB in any one year, but he's been in the small handful of best guys and is the only one who can say that dating back a full decade. Is that not worth something?

 

[moondawg]

Perfect example on why fans should not be allowed to vote for Pro Bowlers.

As if players/coaches are better judges? :eyeroll:

Man you got me there. The mighty Joe Fan really knows his football.

 

[Despyzer]

I agree with you that FT may well not have been the best AFC RB in any one year, but he's been in the small handful of best guys and is the only one who can say that dating back a full decade. Is that not worth something?

Even given the fact that they only played a portion of that decade, I would say Tomlinson and Edge have consistently been better than him over that time span.