JohnnyU
Footballguy
If it was a different position he probably wouldn't have said anything. I sense a lot of jealousy of Smith-Shuster from Brown.
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WR Antonio Brown, FA (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Casting Couch
- Start date
Bossman
Footballguy
Brady did his weekly presser this week and made it a point to state that for these playoff games, every player has to be at their best ...
and no one aspect of the team (offense / defense / ST) or any one player, can win these games.
Just standard "Team first" speak ... but yeah, seems to fly in the face of MVP "Best player on the Team" awards being discussed in PIT.
There was once a time, way back when, when starters were introduced individually for the Super Bowl ... and probably to some extent the home team for many reg season and playoff games.
Then one Super Bowl team decided to run on the field as a unit. Unprecedented at the time.
Now that seems to be the norm. These individual awards are silly and probably need to end.
Dizzy
Footballguy
And I can guarantee that this did not sit well with a Le'Veon Bell... guaranteed... whether it is in the open or not.
Childish, yes... but simple fact is you've got a mix of man-sized children overly concerned with their "brand"... some are easily offended, and some (Big Ben) take every opportunity to poke these guys and stir the #### pot.
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Because it is undeniably true. Well I"d add on caveat and say I don't know the rules on if a player passed away.
I'm sure people are bored with this back and forth so I'll try and make this quick. If AB did not show up for the game the Steelers could have fined him(not an arbitrary amount but amount not to exceed CBA limits) and he could have faced a suspension that would impact his future pay next year if he is still under team control. That is only financial means the Steeler's would have controlled had they not suspended AB prior to week 17's kickoff.
Things like this have already happened in the NFL. Timmons was last one I recall. Went AWOL, missed a game , got suspended and sat out another game. So one game he no showed and one game he got suspended. He lost ONE game check, not the game he no showed, the game he got suspended.
habsfan
Footballguy
Lots of reasonable deductions happening here and they all point to a significant problem. We know what is generally important to players - being paid, fame. individual and team success etc and you can tick all those boxes with AB. Being insufficiently "appreciated" just sounds like a child who wants to see how far they can push "mom and dad" purely for the sport of it. That's a bad situation for a team in a window to win. Sure Pitt can take things away from him but the effectiveness of that is contingent on him actually caring about the things they can take away.
Not excusing him, but this does possibly shed some light on his antics if you believe this article, which I do. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/05/report-ben-criticized-brown-in-meetings-wanted-him-off-the-practice-field/
I still think he needs to get his head checked, and I mean that for real. This has a bit of a Ballers season 3 Ricky Jerret feel to it.
I still think he needs to get his head checked, and I mean that for real. This has a bit of a Ballers season 3 Ricky Jerret feel to it.
grateful zed
Footballguy
irish eyes
Footballguy
Trade him to the worst team possible. This crap is beyond ridiculous.
Yeah, making a trade with the primary intent being to punish the player is a smart decision
.Although this franchise doesn’t have a recent track record of making smart decisions; they gave up over $14M in cap space in ‘18 because of the Bell fiasco, now they look to be willing to give up $21M in ‘19. They have a franchise QB whose career is winding down & the conference bully (NE) looks to be ready to be knocked off, and they are wasting their chances because they can’t make the right decisions.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
This is like when the Giants were shopping ODB... Not going to happen.
Yeah, making a trade with the primary intent being to punish the player is a smart decision
Although this franchise doesn’t have a recent track record of making smart decisions; they gave up over $14M in cap space in ‘18 because of the Bell fiasco, now they look to be willing to give up $21M in ‘19. They have a franchise QB whose career is winding down & the conference bully (NE) looks to be ready to be knocked off, and they are wasting their chances because they can’t make the right decisions.
They only person who gave up $14M in 2018 is Bell, Steelers at least can carry that over.
They are also not giving up $21M in 2019 if they trade Brown. That's a sunk cost. They are actually gaining cap room if they move him, not enough cap room to make up for the loss of the player, but trading Brown is a very minor net cap gain for 2019, fairly major next two seasons.
I'm with Mort and was before his report. While I still think AB could smooth this over if he wants to I just don't think he does, I think he's getting traded and felt that way ever since Tomlin's press conference and AB's actions during that press conference.kittenmittens said:
In one very big respect AB could have a bigger market then Odell and be easier to trade. Odell had one year left on his deal so anyone trading for him then had to work out a costly extension. AB on the other hand is signed up at what would be a relative bargain of 3 years at $36M.
Of course Odell is younger and not sure on the grand scale of things which one is considered to be more of a headache so other factors exist, just pointing out one big reason why AB might be more attractive to teams then Odell.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
more like Gordon will never be signed by the Patriotskittenmittens said:
and then he did
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I think the Steelers will bring AB in and try to smooth things over the issues he has. If things go poorly they'll try to move him in a trade
The one thing I do not expect is for them to have a fire sale or cut him outright. If they can't get decent return then all parties are just going to have to put up with each other.
The one thing I do not expect is for them to have a fire sale or cut him outright. If they can't get decent return then all parties are just going to have to put up with each other.
They were able to spend $14M less in 2018 because of how they mishandled the bell situation.menobrown said:
And they ARE giving up $21M in 2019 cap if they cut/trade him. They will have $21M less in cap room, and no player production in exchange. Sure it’s a sunk cost, but it should be a sunk cost where they’d be getting All-Pro WR production in exchange.
And, sure they will get some cap relief afterwards, but then who will their QB be? A fading Big Ben? Mason Rudolph? Josh Dobbs? Some veteran re-tread? A rookie?
Face it, the Steelers screwed up Bell and maybe with AB, and because if it, they are in the process of wasting a few of the last prime years of their franchise QB. Most teams don’t get two in a row. For every SF, GB, or Indy, there’s a Dallas, Denver, ‘80’s Pitt, Mia, etc.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
They got the $14M back for 2019, and they don't have to "give up" $21M for AB - he's already counting over $22M against the cap today, so they'll actually save a few bucks by moving him.Yeah, making a trade with the primary intent being to punish the player is a smart decision
Although this franchise doesn’t have a recent track record of making smart decisions; they gave up over $14M in cap space in ‘18 because of the Bell fiasco, now they look to be willing to give up $21M in ‘19. They have a franchise QB whose career is winding down & the conference bully (NE) looks to be ready to be knocked off, and they are wasting their chances because they can’t make the right decisions.
They did not screw up Bell and they get the cap money back. You can lead a cow to water but you can't make him drink. The only alternative they had was to meet his exorbitant contract demands and while I know from the Bell thread you will support him to your dying day and why you probably can't see this clearly and all is just another opportunity to take a shot at Steelers for not agreeing to Bell's demands which with or without hindsight of how this season went I could not agree more with the Steelers decision.
They are not losing $21M in cap space if they trade AB. They are gaining cap space. Don't know how many more ways to say this. They lose the players production, they gain net cap space. If the keep AB they have less cap space then if they move him. And for what it's worth if they move on from AB this year they would essentially paid him $42.7M for two years plus whatever he gets back as a trade. Maybe not a great deal, but 205/2,830/24 TD's plus what he gets back in possible trade is not that terrible either.
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In 2018, they had $14M that went unused because they mishandled the Bell situation.
Yes, they get to roll that money over to 2019; that doesn’t change the fact that I’m 2018, they had $14M less than other teams.
And, now that they’ve gotten that $14M rolled over, they’ve expressed a willingness to take it, and another $7M, and do the same thing: let that money go to waste, rather than have an All-Pro play for them as a return on that expense.
I get that it might be the best decision available to them; but that doesn’t make it a good decision. It’s not one these AB issues are new; the coaches/franchise decided to ignore them while at the same time, investing a lot of money on the guy. Used to think the Steelers were a good franchise; the last several years (ever since the defense of Harrison abusing his wife/gf) have changed that.
“Cap space” is not the right phrase. I used that that phrase in my 1st post & it was inaccurate; you seem to be hung up on it.
In 2018, Pitt had over $14M in money they couldn’t spend on other players because they so badly mismanaged the Bell situation. They did not lose the cap space, but they had to play out 2018, with a salary cap that ended up being $14M smaller than other teams had; without receiving All-Pro production in exchange for that money.
If Pitt decides to cut/trade AB, they will face a similar situation: having a massive amount of their cap tied up by a player who will not play for them. They will have $21M (which will completely wipe out the Bell rollover money) that they are unable to spend on other players. Sure they will save a bit over $1M than they would pay AB to PLAY for them in 2019; but if you assume they use that $1M for a WR, they are going to, essentially, be spending $22M on a WR worth $1M. No way to spin that as smart.
SR388
Footballguy
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
If I'm the Packers, I'd offer up their 1st rounder for AB. Give Rogers 3 good years before he starts to decline.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I think the Steelers would pull the trigger to get a Top 12 pick and the Packers have another 1st rounder don't they?
GB has #12 and #32. Not sure if GB would give up the 12, but if they would, how does that work? Pitt has to eat the dead cap when they trade him, does that mean GB only has to count his salary against their cap & not the pro-rated parts of his signing bonus (since Pitt will be eating that in 2019)? If that's the case, that makes Brown much more appealing to other teams, IMO. If you get rid of his pro-rated bonuses, AB's cap hits for another team would be around $15M, $11M, and $12.5M (I think). John Ross was picked at #9 in 2018, and his first 3 years cap hits were $3.1M, $3.9M, and $4.7M.
If the cap hits for Brown are correct (without his pro-rated bonuses), a lower end top-10 draft pick might not be too prohibitive. The team trading for him would have to accept anywhere from and extra $7M to $12M in cap hit over the next 3 years (probably less of a difference, as the cap has increased each of the last 2 years, and therefore, so too would the compensation for those players picked at these spots), but they'd get an established All-Pro WR, and not a speculative rookie.
That being said, I'm not sure if GB would work; they have Adams, and Rodgers seems to love him. If AB couldn't handle being the #1, with a rising #2, I don't know how well he'd handle being the WR 2 or, WR 1B.
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brewer
Footballguy
To me, the Raiders make the most sense as a trade partner. They will have 3 first round picks in 2019, Pick 4, the Bears pick #24 and the Cowboys TBD pick. I could see them wanting a big name and big personality as they prepare to go into Las Vegas and I could see them being willing to part with either the Bears or Cowboys pick. I'm sure someone could find a sound bite of Gruden gushing over AB.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Way too much of a diva to give that much money and draft capital at his age.
Boone22
Footballguy
I got this:
Here's what Jon Gruden said about Antonio Brown: `If you get a chance to watch him practice, you’ll see what unlocks the greatness in him. Hardest working player I’ve ever seen practice. I’ve seen Jerry Rice, I’ve seen a lot of good ones, but I put Antonio Brown at the top. '
Yes they are cheap years, I'd put that around $6M a year under what his market price would bear for his production.
I don't think he'd hold out, he's never held out. Not sure he has enough self awareness to wait a little time to ask for a restructure right after his possible trade but I think eventually he'll at least want a restructure so he won't essentially be on 3 non guaranteed years with his potential new team and as part of that restructure I'd expect him to want a little bump in pay. I just get a feeling that whoever might acquire him in a trade will be allowed, with Steelers permission, to discuss his contract situation with Rosenhaus before making the move, to make sure he's ready to play and won't be a problem.
joey
Footballguy
menobrown said:
at this point, I can't tell the difference between Gruden being sincere and Gruden spewing his usual hyperbole.
As a (trying-to-be-former) Raiders fan, in the state that this team is currently in, it doesn't make any sense to bring in AB. AB is perfect for a win-now team looking for that last piece to put them over the top, and not a team in full rebuild. Of course, that means the Raiders will make this move
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Makes no sense for Brown to the Raiders. The Raiders have a ton of holes to fill and are years away from possibly being good.at this point, I can't tell the difference between Gruden being sincere and Gruden spewing his usual hyperbole.
As a (trying-to-be-former) Raiders fan, in the state that this team is currently in, it doesn't make any sense to bring in AB. AB is perfect for a win-now team looking for that last piece to put them over the top, and not a team in full rebuild. Of course, that means the Raiders will make this move
Penguin
Footballguy
Jason La Canfora Retweeted
Gerry DulacVerified account @gerrydulac 2h2 hours ago
BREAKING: Steelers president Art Rooney II said he s not going to release Antonio Brown, but “all other options are on the table.” He would not say Steelers are going to trade their All-Pro receiver, but left no doubt that is a strong possibility. Story coming soon on PG site.
Ed BouchetteVerified account @EdBouchette 2h2 hours ago
Goodbye Antonio Brown
Antonio BrownVerified account @AB84 22m22 minutes ago
Good Business #Boomin
Gerry DulacVerified account @gerrydulac 2h2 hours ago
BREAKING: Steelers president Art Rooney II said he s not going to release Antonio Brown, but “all other options are on the table.” He would not say Steelers are going to trade their All-Pro receiver, but left no doubt that is a strong possibility. Story coming soon on PG site.
Ed BouchetteVerified account @EdBouchette 2h2 hours ago
Goodbye Antonio Brown
Antonio BrownVerified account @AB84 22m22 minutes ago
Good Business #Boomin
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Rooney has basically given up leverage by all but saying they want to trade AB. Considering AB's salary and the disruptive behavior I do not see a lot of suitors. Likely landing spots would be the teams with large cap space and in position to be competitive. Teams that qualify under that criteria are:
Colts
Seahawks
Texans
I do not think WR is a big need for the Texans. Colts and Seahawks are very interesting landing spots that would have a huge fantasy impact.
I see the Raiders and Jets as two other likely suitors because of cap space and need.
Colts
Seahawks
Texans
I do not think WR is a big need for the Texans. Colts and Seahawks are very interesting landing spots that would have a huge fantasy impact.
I see the Raiders and Jets as two other likely suitors because of cap space and need.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I read it a lot different than you do. From what I read, the Steelers will have to eat like a $21 million cap hit for the remainder of all his bonus money. His new team would only have to pay him his remaining salaries. I believe that averages out to $12 million a year. Basically, PIT would have already paid him a third of his average cap hit in prior bonuses.
It would be interesting if a team like the Colts traded for AB and later signed Bell. Compared to what some other receivers have gotten or will sign for, AB from $12 million a year is a relative bargain.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
It's hard to believe that it's gotten to this point. Some of the most talented WRs are divas. It makes you really appreciate the likes of Hopkins and Fitz even more.
As great as he is, I'm not even sure that I would want his ego on the Jets at this point and they could really use him.
As great as he is, I'm not even sure that I would want his ego on the Jets at this point and they could really use him.
I'm a Steeler fan and not the least bit pissed. Hated to see Bell go, will hate seeing AB go even more, but in both cases I would not change a thing about how the Steelers handled their business. I wanted Bell to take another one year franchise offer, I wanted AB to try and smooth things over. That neither happened I don't blame the Steelers.
I read it like you do on the money.
Put me down as saying I'd be very surprised if Colts want either of them due to team culture, not because of money.
I think we are in store for a very exciting March.
Raider beat writer tweeted out the full quote earlier today, which I"d not read before:
With Steelers president Art Rooney telling the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette it's "hard to envision" Antonio Brown returning to Pittsburgh, here's what Raiders coach Jon Gruden said about the All-Pro receiver on Dec. 5: "He can run every route you dream up. I say that about other receivers but he can run double moves, he can run by you, he can run crossing routes, he’s very good after the catch. What’s the greatest thing about this man? I’ve told all of our receivers, if you get a chance to watch him practice, you’ll see what unlocks the greatness in him. He’s the hardest working man, I think, in football. Hardest working player I’ve ever seen practice. I’ve seen Jerry Rice, I’ve seen a lot of good ones, but I put Antonio Brown at the top. If there are any young wideouts out there, I’d go watch him practice. You figure out yourself why he’s such a good player."
https://twitter.com/PGutierrezESPN/status/1083517842484539394
DropKick
Footballguy
Bell was replaced fairly easily... I understand these guys are talented but are they worth the other baggage?
