Enderdog
Footballguy
The exact opposite way he reacted to Crabtree and King?I can only wonder how Gruden reacts when Brown acts like Brown.
The exact opposite way he reacted to Crabtree and King?I can only wonder how Gruden reacts when Brown acts like Brown.
I'm out of the loop on this one. He doesn't strike me as the type to let a single player value themselves over the team, but that could have been years of coach speak from the booth. I really don't know.The exact opposite way he reacted to Crabtree and King?
lol pleeeeeeenty of people have left Tampa sports teams in search of more money. Doesn’t bother me at all (except for the cheap ownership).How would you feel if Mike Evans forces his way out of TB?
Wouldn't all the dead cap space this stuff creates actually lead to less money being paid out to players overall?Congrats to AB. System disruption is a great thing. Hope more guys start to understand their worth.
But that's not really relevant. Roethlisberger isn't in Oakland, Carr is. And as long as Carr's running it well AB is going to eat.Great point. Haley ran the WCO and Roethlisberger hated it. I don't know about AB. He seemed to thrive even within its confines, though I totally agree with you about Roethlisberger's holding of the ball while Antonio scrambled to get open. Will Carr do that?
It's relevant because Roethlisberger changed a lot of the plays at the line and improvised a lot, meaning that we don't know how AB did in a true get-it-out-of-your-hands WCO. I watched a lot of that and followed the Ben/Haley/AB saga as I've drafted both AB and Ben and Bell quite a bit over the past four or five years (there's a reason I have two titles in five years plus two finals appearances.)But that's not really relevant. Roethlisberger isn't in Oakland, Carr is. And as long as Carr's running it well AB is going to eat.
You mean the system the players agreed to. Ok, makes sense.Congrats to AB. System disruption is a great thing. Hope more guys start to understand their worth.
Are you really bragging about your fantasy prowess as though that makes one iota of difference to me? C'mon man.It's relevant because Roethlisberger changed a lot of the plays at the line and improvised a lot, meaning that we don't know how AB did in a true get-it-out-of-your-hands WCO. I watched a lot of that and followed the Ben/Haley/AB saga as I've drafted both AB and Ben and Bell quite a bit over the past four or five years (there's a reason I have two titles in five years plus two finals appearances.)
So, yes, actually very relevant. AB feasted under Haley, but was it a true WCO in its nuts and bolts?
No, just as proof that I watched them. And yes, what's wrong with a little chest thumping over picks gone right? If you're that much of a stickler, Friday nights with you must be...Are you really bragging about your fantasy prowess as though that makes one iota of difference to me? C'mon man.
Why are you so pro-management and owner?You mean the system the players agreed to. Ok, makes sense.
I would hope the CBA contains more equitable provisions rather than the sort of circumventing that we see going on. I think it'd be nicer to see higher caps, more player freedom of movement, etc.Congrats to AB. System disruption is a great thing. Hope more guys start to understand their worth.
I'm not pro anyone. The trash bag had 3 years left on his deal. Dont like it retire. And I dont want to hear how how teams can cut players whenever they want. It was agreed upon.Why are you so pro-management and owner?
I'd like to see more of this too. Owners and GM's are out of control.Congrats to AB. System disruption is a great thing. Hope more guys start to understand their worth.
It was also agreed upon by AB and Mr. Rooney that the trade would occur. Why do you have a problem with 1 agreement, but not the other?I'm not pro anyone. The trash bag had 3 years left on his deal. Dont like it retire. And I dont want to hear how how teams can cut players whenever they want. It was agreed upon.
Why would be retire? He literally just got what he wanted.I'm not pro anyone. The trash bag had 3 years left on his deal. Dont like it retire. And I dont want to hear how how teams can cut players whenever they want. It was agreed upon.
Owners/management ruthlessly cut players every day. Stop feeling bad for them. It’s not a lousy look, AB just turned the tables on them.I would hope the CBA contains more equitable provisions rather than the sort of circumventing that we see going on. I think it'd be nicer to see higher caps, more player freedom of movement, etc.
I don't like how AB went about it or what it means for the game. It had a lousy look to it.
Okay I guess I need to spell it out. Steelers should have never taken that crappy deal. Tell him if we dont get a great deal, you're not going anywhere. If you dont like it, too bad. But they caved and look weak.Why would be retire? He literally just got what he wanted.
Sheesh, some of you really dont understand what a contract and collective bargaining agreement are.Owners/management ruthlessly cut players every day. Stop feeling bad for them. It’s not a lousy look, AB just turned the tables on them.
Sheesh some of you people must crave being told what to do.
Not “look weak,” they are weak. They’ve done a poor job over the last several years with players & coaches.Okay I guess I need to spell it out. Steelers should have never taken that crappy deal. Tell him if we dont get a great deal, you're not going anywhere. If you dont like it, too bad. But they caved and look weak.
Weren’t you pissed and talking all kinds of $#%t on Bell because he did exactly what the CBA allows him to do: refuse to sign the tag & force Pitt to keep the tag amount unused on their cap? I’m pretty sure you said the same kind of things about Bell last year, who was doing exactly what players & owners agreed to, as you are saying about AB now. It appears like you want the CBA followed to the letter, except when a player does that and it doesn’t benefit your favorite team?Sheesh, some of you really dont understand what a contract and collective bargaining agreement are.
Yes I said a bunch of stuff about bell, mostly how he was dummy for pi@@ing away 14 million. Never said anything about him not having the right to do it. Nice try though.Not “look weak,” they are weak. They’ve done a poor job over the last several years with players & coaches.
Weren’t you pissed and talking all kinds of $#%t on Bell because he did exactly what the CBA allows him to do: refuse to sign the tag & force Pitt to keep the tag amount unused on their cap? I’m pretty sure you said the same kind of things about Bell last year, who was doing exactly what players & owners agreed to, as you are saying about AB now. It appears like you want the CBA followed to the letter, except when a player does that and it doesn’t benefit your favorite team?
I understand perfectly what they are. He broke them. Good for him.Sheesh, some of you really dont understand what a contract and collective bargaining agreement are.
But they did, because he had the leverage.Okay I guess I need to spell it out. Steelers should have never taken that crappy deal. Tell him if we dont get a great deal, you're not going anywhere. If you dont like it, too bad. But they caved and look weak.
Doesn't every team do this?AB did to the Steelers what the Steelers have done to other players. When they have the upper hand they take advantage.
I don't get it... It's not ruthless. It's part of the business, and well within the rules - the rules both sides negotiated.Owners/management ruthlessly cut players every day. Stop feeling bad for them. It’s not a lousy look, AB just turned the tables on them.
Sheesh some of you people must crave being told what to do.
I can't either but maybe for different reasons. I'm all for players getting paid but when people applaud players pulling stunts like this, players running the league, rooting for guaranteed contracts you are basically rooting for the current NBA structure and if you think that's good for the NFL game you either are unable or have not thought this all the way through.I really can't wrap my mind around the sentiments of the vocal minority in this thread that are applauding AB for all of this.
Why are you so pro-management and owner?
That's a really anti labor viewIt’s the league that provides the opportunity for the player, not the other way around.
To a certain extent yes. Not going to argue if the Steelers are worse than other teams. The point is the players are kind of backed into a corner.....they are going try to get what they think is theirs anyway they can. I don't fault them and think they should.Doesn't every team do this?
This is almost entirely backward. The top players get this because they are in the vast minority and the NFLPA's negotiating spends much more of their equity on things that will benefit "most" of the players. It's just like the drug policy - they aren't going to advocate for the half-dozen guys that get busted at the expense of the majority.That's a really anti labor view
The league wouldn't exist without players, either. You're right that the league would go on without any one individual player, but that's exactly why the players collectively bargain.
The failure of the league to properly address the concerns of its players is exactly why they have to do things like hold out or demand trades. The owners could snap their fingers and make those things go away but they don't, specifically because the current rules are bad for top players and that's good for the owners.
Protecting those rules favors management, because instead of negotiating for more cap money or more money from jersey sales, they negotiate for things that benefit one player over another like changes to the franchise tag.
Every time time the players fight for something besides revenue they give some kind of concession to the owners, and the owners have a much longer view than the players because the players have such short careers.
And here we are, talking about the nfl in the off season on a site dedicated to the league debating the nuances of a single player acquisition. The league has almost zero interest in fixing the problems you're complaining about. Controversy is great for them.
If you're upset that this is how players have to act to get more money - but owners can get their money back by cutting a player and their non guaranteed contract - point the blame at the owners. I believe the kids used to say, don't hate the player, hate the game, but i don't know if they say that anymore because i'm past my prime.
That's a really anti labor view
The league wouldn't exist without players, either. You're right that the league would go on without any one individual player, but that's exactly why the players collectively bargain.
The failure of the league to properly address the concerns of its players is exactly why they have to do things like hold out or demand trades. The owners could snap their fingers and make those things go away but they don't, specifically because the current rules are bad for top players and that's good for the owners.
Protecting those rules favors management, because instead of negotiating for more cap money or more money from jersey sales, they negotiate for things that benefit one player over another like changes to the franchise tag.
Every time time the players fight for something besides revenue they give some kind of concession to the owners, and the owners have a much longer view than the players because the players have such short careers.
And here we are, talking about the nfl in the off season on a site dedicated to the league debating the nuances of a single player acquisition. The league has almost zero interest in fixing the problems you're complaining about. Controversy is great for them.
If you're upset that this is how players have to act to get more money - but owners can get their money back by cutting a player and their non guaranteed contract - point the blame at the owners. I believe the kids used to say, don't hate the player, hate the game, but i don't know if they say that anymore because i'm past my prime.
We will likely never know but I think issues with Ben and Tomlin were largely orchestrated by AB and Rosenhaus as a means to get out of his contract with the Steelers which had no more guaranteed money. They knew the Steelers weren't going to renegotiate a contract with 3 years left and no one would be giving him $30 million guaranteed when that contract expired.What was the deal with Big Ben? They just didn’t get along or what?
The top 0.1% is still underpaid along with the rest of the NFL. The best way to fix this is for the players to negotiate for a higher percentage of revenue. This would benefit the player making the vet minimum as much as the top earners.
Behavior like Brown's or Bell's isn't going to stop until they are treated better. They know their being unfairly exploited. Hopefully other teams have taken notice how saving a few bucks completely blew up in the greedy Steelers face.
Oh well apparently Ben only went to his house 3 times so they’re not friends. Enjoy hanging out with Derek Carr who has had stories rumored through the grapevine of his OL bailing on him vice a guy like Pouncey saying he’ll play until Ben doesn’t. Ben isn’t immune to criticism for this past year. I made a comment I thought it was BS when he threw Washington under the bus and he needs to not do that BS this season but the guy has won two rings... he’s hardly “the problem” and if someone says he is they’re an idiot. Call him a piece of #### human, call his personality derelict... whatever, but to suggest it’s his play? C’mon... he had his best statistical season last year even if his deep ball efficiency is weakening.We will likely never know but I think issues with Ben and Tomlin were largely orchestrated by AB and Rosenhaus as a means to get out of his contract with the Steelers which had no more guaranteed money. They knew the Steelers weren't going to renegotiate a contract with 3 years left and no one would be giving him $30 million guaranteed when that contract expired.
The only way to get one more big payoff was to either be released or be traded and that is exactly what happened. I understand it is a business and I don't fault him for getting as much money as you can but it was a really crappy way to do it.
It’s just like pointing to the NBA and MLB. I think there is a point to be made about guaranteed contracts but the money is never going to be what those leagues have. It’s 14 man and 25 man rosters vs 53 man rosters (60 if you want to count practice squad).That’s laughable. The players already get a disproportionate percentage of gross revenues when compared to a standard business model for employee compensation. The reason people like you feel this way is because the NFL as a whole generates such a huge amount of revenues - which btw benefits the players with their compensation tied to the percentage.
Damn. I wish someone would exploit me to the tune of $15M per year.
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In what I think was my favorite part of the ESPN interview at his mansion..... Brown opines that he and Ben aren't friends because they have only been to each other's homes a few times. About 10 minutes later he mentions that Coach Tomlin invited him to his house to watch a game, but essentially, Brown is a busy man and doesn't have time for that.Oh well apparently Ben only went to his house 3 times so they’re not friends.
This is exactly how the owners want you to see it. You're referring to the players as the .1%, not the owners.No it’s not. It’s an anti top 0.1% pampered jackwad who happily takes a massive signing bonus and inks a long term contract and then looks around after a year or two and decides that the contract he gladly and willfully signed just wasn’t good enough for right now and acts so detrimentally that the team has no choice but to rid themselves of him. And while this jackwad gets handsomely rewarded for his incredibly selfish bad behavior, the team, his teammates, and the fans get shafted.
If you’re so pro labor then why aren’t you supporting the rest of his former team who took it right in the nuts just like the franchise and its fans did while he was acting so poorly and then skipping away merrily with his fat new contract - which will negatively affect some of his new teammates from cashing in on a better deal when their wait their turn and play out their contract? You’re not pro labor. You’re pro top 0.1% jackwad. That must be a comfortable spot to be.
The players are the product. The owners need on field talent, and the one time they tried to prove otherwise by using replacement players was a debacle.That’s laughable. The players already get a disproportionate percentage of gross revenues when compared to a standard business model for employee compensation.
The players are the product. The owners need on field talent, and the one time they tried to prove otherwise by using replacement players was a debacle.
Do the players get a bigger percentage of revenues than other entertainers? Do you think they should get paid in line with factory workers, or taylor swift? Because you're basically arguing that the record labels and Ticketmaster deserve more money.
I'd rather believe you don't believe this but feel free to explain how the owners would make billions with the nfl without putting the best players on the field. I'd imagine some people would tune in to watch Arthur Blank clothesline Kroenke, but that's not a sustainable business model.What? The games (and broadcasts) and merchandise are the products. The players are contract employees. Where do you get this stuff from? No wonder this discussion goes where it does.
Yeah the other business models you're comparing to the NFL are close to paying in cheeseburgers instead of dollars. That's like comparing the way Saddam treated his people and saying saying see Kim Jong-un isn't that bad. Almost everybody working for corporate America deserves a raise.That’s laughable. The players already get a disproportionate percentage of gross revenues when compared to a standard business model for employee compensation. The reason people like you feel this way is because the NFL as a whole generates such a huge amount of revenues - which btw benefits the players with their compensation tied to the percentage.
Damn. I wish someone would exploit me to the tune of $15M per year.
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If you were one of the 3 best in the world at what you do then maybe you would be worth that. But you’re not. So you shouldn’t compare yourself to somebody who is.That’s laughable. The players already get a disproportionate percentage of gross revenues when compared to a standard business model for employee compensation. The reason people like you feel this way is because the NFL as a whole generates such a huge amount of revenues - which btw benefits the players with their compensation tied to the percentage.
Damn. I wish someone would exploit me to the tune of $15M per year.
.