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WR Jameson Williams, DET (8 Viewers)

Chaka said:
Ilov80s said:
DropKick said:
're not saying Jameson performed poorly?
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How else would one describe 1 catch on 9 targets?
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I would describe it as "Coming back from an ACL in 10 months. So maybe we ought to give him a mulligan."

So would you, I think.
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Of course I am willing to give him a mulligan. I wouldn't be a Lions fan if I wasn't able to give mulligans. I am just being realistic, there's some reasons to be apprehensive. Enough where I think WR is a big need for the Lions going into 2023.
 
Ilov80s said:
Chaka said:
Ilov80s said:
DropKick said:
're not saying Jameson performed poorly?
Click to expand...
How else would one describe 1 catch on 9 targets?
Click to expand...
I would describe it as "Coming back from an ACL in 10 months. So maybe we ought to give him a mulligan."

So would you, I think.
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Of course I am willing to give him a mulligan. I wouldn't be a Lions fan if I wasn't able to give mulligans. I am just being realistic, there's some reasons to be apprehensive. Enough where I think WR is a big need for the Lions going into 2023.
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I think Williams is free money for the Lions offense. Had he not been injured wouldn't he have been the #1 WR drafted last year?

Lions are getting a healthy stud who has had a full season to learn the offense.

I see some people in the Lions thread talking about the need for a WR to cover for Chark and I think that's a luxury, an excess even. I know Williams doesn't play the same role but Chark, IMO, is JAG.

I think Williams is going to be rocket fuel for that offense. Maybe a TE would be a good add if the guys on the roster have peaked but the gain of a healthy, seasoned Williams, IMO far outweighs any off-season losses.
 
Ziggs said:
Or how about this under thrown ball against Sauce Link
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Totally agree. How many of the 9 were catchable ? He also had a reverse for 40 yards

www.detroitlions.com

HIGHLIGHT: Jameson Williams takes reverse around right end for 40-yard gain

Detroit Lions rookie wide receiver Jameson Williams gains 40 yards on a reverse play against the Chicago Bears.
www.detroitlions.com www.detroitlions.com

And a 30-40 yard caught pass for a TD called back against GB through no fault of his own.

To read anything in to the bare stats and him returning from a blown knee and being eased in slowly is a little silly tbh.
 
You are all proving the point of my worry. He looked fast and looked like a game changer on some plays. Well then when the team was in the playoff hunt and they had this game changing weapon, isn’t it curious he wasn’t more involved? You can’t have the argument both ways of saying “look at how explosive he looked” and “well he didn’t play much because he was recovering from an injury”.

Couple that with the offhand comment Holmes made about Jamo needing to be accountable and needing to do his part, it’s enough to have me a little concerned. If he’s not really good in 2023 then Detroit could find their offense struggling to work because there is nothing else at outside WR as the roster exists right now.
 
Ilov80s said:
You are all proving the point of my worry. He looked fast and looked like a game changer on some plays. Well then when the team was in the playoff hunt and they had this game changing weapon, isn’t it curious he wasn’t more involved? You can’t have the argument both ways of saying “look at how explosive he looked” and “well he didn’t play much because he was recovering from an injury”.

Couple that with the offhand comment Holmes made about Jamo needing to be accountable and needing to do his part, it’s enough to have me a little concerned. If he’s not really good in 2023 then Detroit could find their offense struggling to work because there is nothing else at outside WR as the roster exists right now.
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I don't have all of the blurbs and quotes readily available, but the takeaway all year felt like they were going to be very cautious working him back in and that they were thinking long term with him and not "how can he help us win now?"

I think they wanted to get him some live game reps. They did that. He looked incredibly explosive in the limited looks he got. Two 40 yard touches, and another long touchdown called back. Physically, I think he was 100% at that point in time.

But why didn't they use that weapon for the playoff stretch? They were a fringe playoff team. They invested a top 12 pick in the kid. They did the right thing in thinking long term with him.

"But you can't say he's coming back from injury"

Well, you can. It's generally agreed upon that most players aren't back at the same level the first year back. While physically, he seems to be there, does he have some mental hurdles to clear before fully exploding off the knee? Is he maybe just a little bit rusty after not playing live football for nearly a year? The last time he played, the DB's were college guys and now they're all NFL guys.

The guy has ELITE talent. He is in an offense that will give him plenty of opportunity.
 
Typically a knee injury like the one he suffered requires about 18 months to be fully repaired. Roughly 9 months before you can start normal, unrestricted activity, 18 months before it's fully healed with the same range of motion and it feeling like it did pre injury, all the muscles around it built up properly and the mental readiness to use it without concern.

Struggling to understand why folks aren't seeing anything but a high and magnificent ceiling for this guy. He's no more or less likely to bust than he was this time last year, he's just fully healthy now.
 
Wigglytuff's Gruff said:
Typically a knee injury like the one he suffered requires about 18 months to be fully repaired. Roughly 9 months before you can start normal, unrestricted activity, 18 months before it's fully healed with the same range of motion and it feeling like it did pre injury, all the muscles around it built up properly and the mental readiness to use it without concern.

Struggling to understand why folks aren't seeing anything but a high and magnificent ceiling for this guy. He's no more or less likely to bust than he was this time last year, he's just fully healthy now.
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My opinion exactly. I took him in all 3 of my dynasty's last year and was not worried about him at all............ At least until I opened this thread.
 
Ilov80s said:
DropKick said:
're not saying Jameson performed poorly?
Click to expand...
How else would one describe 1 catch on 9 targets?
Click to expand...

Grossly under thrown a couple times, including when he torched Sauce Garner and company. Goff also threw an uncatchable ball out of bounce. Let's also remember the 65-yard TD catch against Green Bay and the 40-yard run where everyone else on the field looked like they were standing still. Jamo arguably dropped a couple catchall balls, but he had no training camp and missed most of the season. There is no way you can compare his rookie year to others who have failed. Besides, Goff is notorious for taking a long time to get in sync with new recievers.

The three times he did touch the ball...41-yard TD, 40-yard run, 65-yard TD catch called back on a hold. His speed and talent translates in a star into the NFL. He has that gear that only him and Tyreek Hill have, and I think Jamo is even faster.
 
Last edited:
Ilov80s said:
You can’t have the argument both ways of saying “look at how explosive he looked” and “well he didn’t play much because he was recovering from an injury”.
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Those aren't necessarily related issues. He could easily be explosive but making mistakes and losing PT due to lack of practice reps. He could also be explosive but on a snap count as a precaution to protect the future of their offense.
Ilov80s said:
there is nothing else at outside WR as the roster exists right now.
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What did they have last year? Chark? 11 games and 500 yards. Hock? Offense didn't miss a beat after he left. That hole has been there, now at least there is hope the void will be filled.
 
BobbyLayne said:
strange hill to die on
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I’m not the one saying he’s faster than Tyreek Hill. That seems like the bold call to me. Again, I like Jamo. He wasn’t a perfect prospect but he was very good. I expect he will do well in the NFL and buck the trends we’ve seen from other WRs who struggled in year 1 (including injuries). However, Detroit has SB aspirations this year and I am worried about outside WR. Reynolds and Marvin aren’t starting caliber WRs. Jamo certainly flashed but is that enough? I don’t know.
 
Chaka said:
What did they have last year? Chark? 11 games and 500 yards. Hock? Offense didn't miss a beat after he left. That hole has been there, now at least there is hope the void will be filled.
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Chark is pretty good, better than Jones and Reynolds. Also the Lions offense struggled many of the games Chark was out.
 
Ilov80s said:
Chaka said:
What did they have last year? Chark? 11 games and 500 yards. Hock? Offense didn't miss a beat after he left. That hole has been there, now at least there is hope the void will be filled.
Click to expand...
Chark is pretty good, better than Jones and Reynolds. Also the Lions offense struggled many of the games Chark was out.
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Fair(ish). The NE & Dal games were embarrassing for sure (I would suggest seeing a teammate taken out in a ambulance on the first drive may have started a spiral in NE). But selling Chark as a driving force for that offense feels like a huge leap.

Jones and Reynolds may not be adequate replacements but Williams, Jones and Reynolds seems like more than enough to make up for Chark.
 
Chaka said:
Ilov80s said:
Chaka said:
What did they have last year? Chark? 11 games and 500 yards. Hock? Offense didn't miss a beat after he left. That hole has been there, now at least there is hope the void will be filled.
Click to expand...
Chark is pretty good, better than Jones and Reynolds. Also the Lions offense struggled many of the games Chark was out.
Click to expand...
Fair(ish). The NE & Dal games were embarrassing for sure (I would suggest seeing a teammate taken out in a ambulance on the first drive may have started a spiral in NE). But selling Chark as a driving force for that offense feels like a huge leap.

Jones and Reynolds may not be adequate replacements but Williams, Jones and Reynolds seems like more than enough to make up for Chark.
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Small sample size of course so this isn’t telling the whole story by a mile but with Chark the Lions scored 28 ppg, without him it was 19. Hopefully Jamo can fill in to that role no problem.

My one other Jamo concern goes back to when he was a prospect. People like to say Olave and Wilson acknowledge that JSN was the best WR at Ohio State. What would they say about Jamo then? He had to transfer to get playing time against those guys. Now he went to Bama, not Toledo and he was great there. The WR competition was really soft for him though. He performed so well that it probably doesn’t matter but the difference between NFL star and NFL dud is so pretty thin.

Also, so what if Jamo is awesome and we still spend a day 1 or 2 pick on a WR? Why is that bad? Offensive efficiency is one of the few metrics that predicts success. Defensive efficiency isn’t consistent year to year. If our WR core has 3 good to great players like the Bengals, is that somehow bad?
 
Ilov80s said:
BobbyLayne said:
strange hill to die on
Click to expand...
I’m not the one saying he’s faster than Tyreek Hill. That seems like the bold call to me. Again, I like Jamo. He wasn’t a perfect prospect but he was very good. I expect he will do well in the NFL and buck the trends we’ve seen from other WRs who struggled in year 1 (including injuries). However, Detroit has SB aspirations this year and I am worried about outside WR. Reynolds and Marvin aren’t starting caliber WRs. Jamo certainly flashed but is that enough? I don’t know.
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Chark ran a 4.34 and burst out laughing when they asked him if Jamo was faster (in a that's absurd of course he is kind of way.) He wouldn't go so far as to say Williams was faster - "he never ran so we can't give him credit for that" - but he said the rookie was faster than anyone else on the team. But a lot of the big gainers at Alabama were crossers, and other than the wiped out flea flicker we never saw him and Jared connect on that. That's what I want to see from him this fall. I know he can outrun people, I want to see him come back to the ball, get leverage on guys trying to press him, finding the holes in the quarters zone coverage. He did not demonstrate any of those routes/traits in his abbreviated rookie year so there's reason for a modest amount of skepticism.

I do agree with you the WR room is incomplete, they need another contested catch, big body kind of guy. There are a few out there, with the flaws you would expect from R3 or D3 selections (AT Perry, Rashee Rice, Xavier Hutchinson, Bryce Ford-Wheaton.) None of those guys will be ready day 1 but I think Brad will take a swing or two on Friday/Saturday.

Or just draft a Washington, LaPorta, or Kraft. They'll figure it out. I'm not expecting them to go into the season thinking Kalif, Josh and MJJ are adequate.
 
There are numbers which support the claim Jamo is faster than Hill. Hill's top speed in a game was recorded 22.64 mph. Jamo was recorded at 23 mph at Alabama. The 41-yard TD catch, Jamo was recorded at the fastest WR in the NFL that week, and he looked like he was not even in full gear. Madden has Tyreek rated at 99 with Jamo in second with a 98 speed. The next guy is like 96. Just by the eye test, those two are in a class by themselves. They both look so much faster than anyone around them. It is not just a wild *** claim that Jamo is as fast or faster than Hill. Jamo is convinced he can run a sub-4.2.
 
jm192 said:
Ilov80s said:
You are all proving the point of my worry. He looked fast and looked like a game changer on some plays. Well then when the team was in the playoff hunt and they had this game changing weapon, isn’t it curious he wasn’t more involved? You can’t have the argument both ways of saying “look at how explosive he looked” and “well he didn’t play much because he was recovering from an injury”.

Couple that with the offhand comment Holmes made about Jamo needing to be accountable and needing to do his part, it’s enough to have me a little concerned. If he’s not really good in 2023 then Detroit could find their offense struggling to work because there is nothing else at outside WR as the roster exists right now.
Click to expand...
I don't have all of the blurbs and quotes readily available, but the takeaway all year felt like they were going to be very cautious working him back in and that they were thinking long term with him and not "how can he help us win now?"

I think they wanted to get him some live game reps. They did that. He looked incredibly explosive in the limited looks he got. Two 40 yard touches, and another long touchdown called back. Physically, I think he was 100% at that point in time.

But why didn't they use that weapon for the playoff stretch? They were a fringe playoff team. They invested a top 12 pick in the kid. They did the right thing in thinking long term with him.

"But you can't say he's coming back from injury"

Well, you can. It's generally agreed upon that most players aren't back at the same level the first year back. While physically, he seems to be there, does he have some mental hurdles to clear before fully exploding off the knee? Is he maybe just a little bit rusty after not playing live football for nearly a year? The last time he played, the DB's were college guys and now they're all NFL guys.

The guy has ELITE talent. He is in an offense that will give him plenty of opportunity.
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I’d say this is a very good reply. Yes he was explosive, but they always said ‘thinking long term’, and down the stretch were getting more than enough from what they already had on the team.

I’m not actually stating categorically that he’s going to be incredible this coming season. I just take umbrage to parsing anything at all negative from what we did see from him last year:
 
Ilov80s said:
Chaka said:
Ilov80s said:
Chaka said:
What did they have last year? Chark? 11 games and 500 yards. Hock? Offense didn't miss a beat after he left. That hole has been there, now at least there is hope the void will be filled.
Click to expand...
Chark is pretty good, better than Jones and Reynolds. Also the Lions offense struggled many of the games Chark was out.
Click to expand...
Fair(ish). The NE & Dal games were embarrassing for sure (I would suggest seeing a teammate taken out in a ambulance on the first drive may have started a spiral in NE). But selling Chark as a driving force for that offense feels like a huge leap.

Jones and Reynolds may not be adequate replacements but Williams, Jones and Reynolds seems like more than enough to make up for Chark.
Click to expand...
Small sample size of course so this isn’t telling the whole story by a mile but with Chark the Lions scored 28 ppg, without him it was 19. Hopefully Jamo can fill in to that role no problem.

My one other Jamo concern goes back to when he was a prospect. People like to say Olave and Wilson acknowledge that JSN was the best WR at Ohio State. What would they say about Jamo then? He had to transfer to get playing time against those guys. Now he went to Bama, not Toledo and he was great there. The WR competition was really soft for him though. He performed so well that it probably doesn’t matter but the difference between NFL star and NFL dud is so pretty thin.

Also, so what if Jamo is awesome and we still spend a day 1 or 2 pick on a WR? Why is that bad? Offensive efficiency is one of the few metrics that predicts success. Defensive efficiency isn’t consistent year to year. If our WR core has 3 good to great players like the Bengals, is that somehow bad?
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LOL you definitely sound like a long suffering Lions fan (as a Raiders fan, I can absolutely relate). Trying to be hopeful but assuming the worst and already preparing yourself to say "See? This is why we can't have nice things."

I think the Lions have every reason to be optimistic about their offense going into 2023 regardless of how Williams performs. The offensive line is still top 5 and has maintained cohesion since last year (I think this is perhaps the most important driving factor for offenses. It's certainly the most overlooked), the running game got better (I love Jamaal but Montgomery is simply a much better player), Ben Johnson stayed and, oh yeah (on paper) you have a young, healthy stud WR entering the system.

It's a good time to be a Lions fan, try to enjoy it.
 
Chaka said:
ARSB driving the hype train
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They were recently out in California working with Goff and a half dozen other Lions WRs/TEs. If I were the Lions I would give Amon-Ra's father a $250K consulting fee to shadow Jameson, $500K if they adopt him as their son. Just like Marvin Jones Jr is already rubbing off on St Brown - they hung for hours after workouts Monday - I want Jamo to be trying emulate the ARSB work ethic.

Still think they need to add a flavor in the draft, though.
 
BobbyLayne said:
Chaka said:
ARSB driving the hype train
Click to expand...

They were recently out in California working with Goff and a half dozen other Lions WRs/TEs. If I were the Lions I would give Amon-Ra's father a $250K consulting fee to shadow Jameson, $500K if they adopt him as their son. Just like Marvin Jones Jr is already rubbing off on St Brown - they hung for hours after workouts Monday - I want Jamo to be trying emulate the ARSB work ethic.

Still think they need to add a flavor in the draft, though.
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I don't know much about the TEs currently on the roster except they're young and none of the were particularly highly drafted. In a draft that looks fairly deep at the position I would think landing a good one would fill a bigger void, no?
 
jon_mx said:
There are numbers which support the claim Jamo is faster than Hill. Hill's top speed in a game was recorded 22.64 mph. Jamo was recorded at 23 mph at Alabama. The 41-yard TD catch, Jamo was recorded at the fastest WR in the NFL that week, and he looked like he was not even in full gear. Madden has Tyreek rated at 99 with Jamo in second with a 98 speed. The next guy is like 96. Just by the eye test, those two are in a class by themselves. They both look so much faster than anyone around them. It is not just a wild *** claim that Jamo is as fast or faster than Hill. Jamo is convinced he can run a sub-4.2.
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He’s very fast. Hit 23 as reported by Alabama at a practice pre knee injury though. It’s probably unimportant though, we know he’s got elite speed.
 
Chaka said:
BobbyLayne said:
Chaka said:
ARSB driving the hype train
Click to expand...

They were recently out in California working with Goff and a half dozen other Lions WRs/TEs. If I were the Lions I would give Amon-Ra's father a $250K consulting fee to shadow Jameson, $500K if they adopt him as their son. Just like Marvin Jones Jr is already rubbing off on St Brown - they hung for hours after workouts Monday - I want Jamo to be trying emulate the ARSB work ethic.

Still think they need to add a flavor in the draft, though.
Click to expand...
I don't know much about the TEs currently on the roster except they're young and none of the were particularly highly drafted. In a draft that looks fairly deep at the position I would think landing a good one would fill a bigger void, no?
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Maybe. The team has several TEs who fill different roles and they might just be happy with that committee approach. I think one of the problems they had with Hock was his disinterest in blocking. Many of the TEs in this class aren’t blockers either. Also rookie TEs rarely do much. So drafting one in say the 2nd might not actually provide anything this year.
 
Any coachspeak needs to be taken with a grain of salt but it's why I'm not trying to use a ton of capital to acquire Jamo in dynasty. It just worries me like it worries ilov80s. Coaches choose their words very carefully. As soon as they're frustrated or concerned enough to let it out to the media, then I get concerned too.

It's probably much ado about nothing, but 80s has his nose to the Lions grindstone unlike a lot of the commenters in this thread. I'd listen with deference and disagree thoughtfully, which for the most part, you guys have done. You've got me back on the Jamo train, but ilov is certainly in the back of my mind like, "Yeah, watch for that."
 
rockaction said:
Any coachspeak needs to be taken with a grain of salt but it's why I'm not trying to use a ton of capital to acquire Jamo in dynasty. It just worries me like it worries ilov80s. Coaches choose their words very carefully. As soon as they're frustrated or concerned enough to let it out to the media, then I get concerned too.

It's probably much ado about nothing, but 80s has his nose to the Lions grindstone unlike a lot of the commenters in this thread. I'd listen with deference and disagree thoughtfully, which for the most part, you guys have done. You've got me back on the Jamo train, but ilov is certainly in the back of my mind like, "Yeah, watch for that."
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Also, the way Detroit handles it's business is to keep stuff internal. Public facing they never give too much. So when they demoted Anthony Lynn and elevated Ben Johnson (behind the scenes), publicly they said "A is still the OC, he's doing everything for us he was before except wearing the headset." They benched Okudah 3 straight games Weeks 15-17 bc his play fell off, Week 18 it was a brand new mystery appearance on the injury report. He didn't dress. Everyone kind of knew it was a DNP, coaches decision healthy scratch but they didn't put that out. Was no surprise when he was traded, though.

If the Lions are truly unhappy with Jamo, you probably won't ever know about it. But rn fans got their antennae up about this guy. They started voluntary workouts Monday, and the team put up two sets of 108 still photos of the boys working out. All the veterans are there. Big debate on r/detroitlions why there were no pictures of Jamo. Is he flaking off? What's up with this kid? If he puts something up on IG stories or Twitch (he's a gamer) people debate what he meant - he's a G, but it's kinda hard to decipher what he's talking about sometimes. Chalk that up to being an East St Louis kid. I like him, think he'll be fine, but def a lot of skepticism rn beyond what 80s brought up.
 
You kind of knew it was coming because people are way to hyped on this guy...happens time and time again it seems
 
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