WR Josh Gordon, KC (7 Viewers)

[Bronco Billy]

Pumpnick and jdswan922, I completely expected this, so not to worry.

They hated my viewpoint then, and now that's there's a very distinct possibility that it happens, they have to pick me apart personally to overcome their failure to open their eyes to the entire situation.

It's human nature. unfortunately.

at thinking your position is so important as to draw "hate". I'm curious to see if you'll actually own being wrong. I doubt it, especially given how you've positioned yourself, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Likely a mistake on my part, but we'll see.

 

[Soulfly3]

Pumpnick and jdswan922, I completely expected this, so not to worry.

They hated my viewpoint then, and now that's there's a very distinct possibility that it happens, they have to pick me apart personally to overcome their failure to open their eyes to the entire situation.

It's human nature. unfortunately.

at thinking your position is so important as to draw "hate". I'm curious to see if you'll actually own being wrong. I doubt it, especially given how you've positioned yourself, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Likely a mistake on my part, but we'll see.

Laugh all you want, but Im the ONLY recipient of personal insults in this thread.

And please quit directing the "thinking you're important" crap at me, because I have never stated I am, nor implied it. It's YOU and your buddies coming at me for taking a stance and sticking with it.

Lastly, I don't know who you are, nor do I care your opinion on me and if I'll "own my mistake". I've made COUNTLESS offers in this thread to prove my stance is real, and only one stepped up to take on some action.

The rest of you cowered behind a "you're not THAT important" facade instead of taking on the wager.

have a good one, bro.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Pumpnick and jdswan922, I completely expected this, so not to worry.

They hated my viewpoint then, and now that's there's a very distinct possibility that it happens, they have to pick me apart personally to overcome their failure to open their eyes to the entire situation.

It's human nature. unfortunately.

at thinking your position is so important as to draw "hate". I'm curious to see if you'll actually own being wrong. I doubt it, especially given how you've positioned yourself, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Likely a mistake on my part, but we'll see.

Laugh all you want, but Im the ONLY recipient of personal insults in this thread.

Just throwing this out there, but it most likely has to do with your rude and arrogant attitude, not your stance on how long his suspension is.

Hard to play the victim when you are the one antagonizing others.

 

[Soulfly3]

Just throwing this out there, but it most likely has to do with your rude and arrogant attitude, not your stance on how long his suspension is.

What you call arrogant, I call sticking to my convictions.

Regardless of what you think it is, that's still grounds for incessant insults? Because I don't buy nameless reports, or think that most pundits overreached their boundaries and reported false information just so they could "be the first"?

That means I should be insulted?

Ok.

 

[amnesiac]

0 game suspension.

Maybe a small monetary fine.

Legit excuse for missing a test.

I'll use your logic...If it was that simple wouldn't they have announced it already?Should be 16....they will find a way to come up with a superstar exception and reduce it to 8

If there were no suspension, why would the league announce anything?

Being that there is rampant speculation that Gordon failed a drug test and it has been reported he will be suspended...I would imagine somebody(NFL) would like to clarify that.With Brazill getting at least a year...Gordon is going to have to have significant/compelling reasons he doesn't deserve the same

that argument makes no sense on either side of this discussion. Brazil's case doesn't have anything to do with Gordon's case.

 

[Soulfly3]

that argument makes no sense on either side of this discussion.

Brazil's case doesn't have anything to do with Gordon's case.

Much how they blast me for cherry picking reports to make a claim, they do the exact same in the opposite direction.

Been like this for 30+ pages

 

[cstu]

One of the reasons the NBA is not as popular as the NFL is its image of having 'thug' players.

Oh dear, the "thug" word. To paraphrase Richard Sherman, thug is an accepted way of calling somebody the N-word.

Who exactly are these thugs you speak of in the NBA?

If the image of having thug players is one of the reasons the NBA is unpopular, it is way down the list. The main reason the NBA hasn't achieved the popularity of the NFL is that it simply isn't that compelling to a lot of people.

Besides, having a thug image sure doesn't seem to bother NFL fans. We held past players like Ben Davidson and Conard Dobler in high esteem during their playing days. And Suh is very popular today.

First of all, the bold is untrue.

The 'thug image' comes from NBA players beginning to emulate hip hop stars - tattoos, cornrows, carrying guns, smoking weed, etc. It was such a problem that Stern had to implement a dress code about a decade ago. This is not a racial issue since there are plenty of white players who have adopted the same image.

Adding to the problem for the NBA is that players are on full display to fans while NFL are covered in jerseys and aren't even allowed to take their helmet off on the field.

You seem to be confusing "thug image" with the NBA actually being filled with thugs. There have been some high profile events that have aggravated the image problem but it's more perception than reality. The truth is that if you look like a thug people are going to perceive you as a thug even if you aren't.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Pumpnick and jdswan922, I completely expected this, so not to worry.

They hated my viewpoint then, and now that's there's a very distinct possibility that it happens, they have to pick me apart personally to overcome their failure to open their eyes to the entire situation.

It's human nature. unfortunately.

at thinking your position is so important as to draw "hate". I'm curious to see if you'll actually own being wrong. I doubt it, especially given how you've positioned yourself, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Likely a mistake on my part, but we'll see.

Laugh all you want, but Im the ONLY recipient of personal insults in this thread.

And please quit directing the "thinking you're important" crap at me, because I have never stated I am, nor implied it. It's YOU and your buddies coming at me for taking a stance and sticking with it.

Lastly, I don't know who you are, nor do I care your opinion on me and if I'll "own my mistake". I've made COUNTLESS offers in this thread to prove my stance is real, and only one stepped up to take on some action.

The rest of you cowered behind a "you're not THAT important" facade instead of taking on the wager.

have a good one, bro.

Guess I was correct in my doubts about extending the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately you are completely consistent if nothing else.

 

[mvereb]

One of the reasons the NBA is not as popular as the NFL is its image of having 'thug' players.

Oh dear, the "thug" word. To paraphrase Richard Sherman, thug is an accepted way of calling somebody the N-word.

Who exactly are these thugs you speak of in the NBA?

If the image of having thug players is one of the reasons the NBA is unpopular, it is way down the list. The main reason the NBA hasn't achieved the popularity of the NFL is that it simply isn't that compelling to a lot of people.

Besides, having a thug image sure doesn't seem to bother NFL fans. We held past players like Ben Davidson and Conard Dobler in high esteem during their playing days. And Suh is very popular today.

First of all, the bold is untrue.

The 'thug image' comes from NBA players beginning to emulating hip hop stars - tattoos, cornrows, carrying guns, smoking weed, etc. It was such a problem that Stern had to implement a dress code about a decade ago. This is not a racial issue since there are plenty of white players who have adopted the same image.

Adding to the problem for the NBA is that players are on full display to fans while NFL are covered in jerseys and aren't even allowed to take their helmet off on the field.

You seem to be confusing "thug image" with the NBA actually being filled with thugs. There have been some high profile events that have aggravated the image problem but it's more perception than reality. The truth is that if you look like a thug people are going to perceive you as a thug even if you aren't.

Oh boy.

Anyway, does anyone want to discuss the Manziel-to-Gordon connection? Johnny throws arguably the best deep ball from the 2014 draft class and as we saw last season, Gordon routinely makes big plays.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

0 game suspension.

Maybe a small monetary fine.

Legit excuse for missing a test.

I'll use your logic...If it was that simple wouldn't they have announced it already?Should be 16....they will find a way to come up with a superstar exception and reduce it to 8

If there were no suspension, why would the league announce anything?

Being that there is rampant speculation that Gordon failed a drug test and it has been reported he will be suspended...I would imagine somebody(NFL) would like to clarify that.With Brazill getting at least a year...Gordon is going to have to have significant/compelling reasons he doesn't deserve the same

that argument makes no sense on either side of this discussion.Brazil's case doesn't have anything to do with Gordon's case.

Well I could be wrong but if two players are in the same stage of drug punishment and one is suspended a year...seems like the other ..unless he has some extenuating circumstances would be facing the same punishment...no

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

One of the reasons the NBA is not as popular as the NFL is its image of having 'thug' players.

Oh dear, the "thug" word. To paraphrase Richard Sherman, thug is an accepted way of calling somebody the N-word.

Who exactly are these thugs you speak of in the NBA?

If the image of having thug players is one of the reasons the NBA is unpopular, it is way down the list. The main reason the NBA hasn't achieved the popularity of the NFL is that it simply isn't that compelling to a lot of people.

Besides, having a thug image sure doesn't seem to bother NFL fans. We held past players like Ben Davidson and Conard Dobler in high esteem during their playing days. And Suh is very popular today.

First of all, the bold is untrue.

The 'thug image' comes from NBA players beginning to emulate hip hop stars - tattoos, cornrows, carrying guns, smoking weed, etc. It was such a problem that Stern had to implement a dress code about a decade ago. This is not a racial issue since there are plenty of white players who have adopted the same image.

Adding to the problem for the NBA is that players are on full display to fans while NFL are covered in jerseys and aren't even allowed to take their helmet off on the field.

You seem to be confusing "thug image" with the NBA actually being filled with thugs. There have been some high profile events that have aggravated the image problem but it's more perception than reality. The truth is that if you look like a thug people are going to perceive you as a thug even if you aren't.

Wow. Tattoos and corn rows are "thug image" now? And isn't it every American's right to own and carry a gun (in those places deemed permissible to carry)? Weed is now legal in multiple states. For that matter, plenty of non-"thugs" have and will continue to smoke marihuana. If you combine them all, that constitutes "thug"? That may me the most ridiculous thing I have read on these boards.That statement alone comes off as stereotyping, if not with undertones of racism. I think YOU are the one who needs to reevaluate his definitions.

 

[cstu]

One of the reasons the NBA is not as popular as the NFL is its image of having 'thug' players.

Oh dear, the "thug" word. To paraphrase Richard Sherman, thug is an accepted way of calling somebody the N-word.

Who exactly are these thugs you speak of in the NBA?

If the image of having thug players is one of the reasons the NBA is unpopular, it is way down the list. The main reason the NBA hasn't achieved the popularity of the NFL is that it simply isn't that compelling to a lot of people.

Besides, having a thug image sure doesn't seem to bother NFL fans. We held past players like Ben Davidson and Conard Dobler in high esteem during their playing days. And Suh is very popular today.

First of all, the bold is untrue.

The 'thug image' comes from NBA players beginning to emulate hip hop stars - tattoos, cornrows, carrying guns, smoking weed, etc. It was such a problem that Stern had to implement a dress code about a decade ago. This is not a racial issue since there are plenty of white players who have adopted the same image.

Adding to the problem for the NBA is that players are on full display to fans while NFL are covered in jerseys and aren't even allowed to take their helmet off on the field.

You seem to be confusing "thug image" with the NBA actually being filled with thugs. There have been some high profile events that have aggravated the image problem but it's more perception than reality. The truth is that if you look like a thug people are going to perceive you as a thug even if you aren't.

Wow. Tattoos and corn rows are "thug image" now? And isn't it every American's right to own and carry a gun (in those places deemed permissible to carry)? Weed is now legal in multiple states. For that matter, plenty of non-"thugs" have and will continue to smoke marihuana. If you combine them all, that constitutes "thug"? That may me the most ridiculous thing I have read on these boards.That statement alone comes off as stereotyping, if not with undertones of racism. I think YOU are the one who needs to reevaluate his definitions.

Yes, I'm a racist who's married to woman from Africa, have a child that's part African, have been to Africa four times (fifth next year) and am a big fan of gangsta rap.

Are you going to deny that sagging pants, tattoos and cornrows are a part of prison culture? That's exactly where rap music got its fashion inspiration, and by extension NBA players.

While it's legal to own a gun, many NBA players have been arrested for carrying a gun illegally - either on themselves or in their car.

Weed is legal many places now - including where I live - but it's still a federal crime and players still smoke it where it's illegal.

If someone dresses like a thug then shouldn't be shocked when they are perceived as a thug.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Josh Gordon - WR - Browns

Sources close to Josh Gordon tell the Cleveland Plain Dealer they're "concerned" Gordon "will have a tough time making it back into the NFL" if his one-year suspension stands.

The appeal of Gordon's ban will be held in late July. Per the Plain Dealer, the people are worried about Gordon losing his "support system," as he'll be away from the Browns' organization and ineligible to participate in football activities. The sources reportedly point to Jaguars WR Justin Blackmon, who was suspended indefinitely last November and is not expected to be reinstated in 2014. Gordon's Dynasty league owners should have similar worries.

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

Jul 4 - 1:14 PM

 

[zilladog]

The problem with the NBA is the same problem that MLB is having. Its not nearly as entertaining as the NFL. Period. The NBA has done a decent job of cleaning up its image IMO, far far better than the NFL.

And ctsu is pointing out, IMO, that stereotyping is exactly the problem. The general public stereotypes so that we can all fit each other into one group or another, including the "thug" group. Corn rows and weed make people want to put individuals into a group and then judge the group as a whole. Its natural human reaction even if it is sad, absurd, unfair, and borderline racist. People judge what they see, I think that's what cstu is getting at.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Rotoworld:

Josh Gordon - WR - Browns

Sources close to Josh Gordon tell the Cleveland Plain Dealer they're "concerned" Gordon "will have a tough time making it back into the NFL" if his one-year suspension stands.

The appeal of Gordon's ban will be held in late July. Per the Plain Dealer, the people are worried about Gordon losing his "support system," as he'll be away from the Browns' organization and ineligible to participate in football activities. The sources reportedly point to Jaguars WR Justin Blackmon, who was suspended indefinitely last November and is not expected to be reinstated in 2014. Gordon's Dynasty league owners should have similar worries.

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

Jul 4 - 1:14 PM

Seems like they should be concerned either way...Where was his support system when he got pulled over (with this upcoming suspension hanging over his head) and his car smelled like weed and weed was found on his passenger? Unless this kid wants to grow up on his own and be responsible it won't matter and it will happen again. Frankly the only reason this thread has 30 pages of discussion devoted to this subject is because Gordon played like a star....I don't imagine anybody is going to start a thread on how unfair it was to suspend Brazill a year for smoking weed....We are just as guilty as all of the other systems that treat superstars differently...What we should be saying is' the dumb a** deserves to get the max. for not learning his lesson. after his numerous other transgressions.

 

[Soulfly3]

This is the key point that most Gordon supporters seem to want to ignore. IMO, who cares if he gets 4-6-8 or 16 game ban...THIS TIME. The critical factor that impacts how Gordon should be valued is if you believe he will suddenly "get it", when he clearly hasn't learned a lesson despite the other failed tests.

You can spin his current situation any way you want, but anyone being totally honest can't say they are confident he will suddenly get it.

Your point will make little to no sense if he missed a test for a legit reason.

If he's passing tests since well over a year ago, then yes... he finally "gets it"

If he failed a test cuz he had #### in his system, then no... he doesnt get it.

 

[amnesiac]

0 game suspension.

Maybe a small monetary fine.

Legit excuse for missing a test.

I'll use your logic...If it was that simple wouldn't they have announced it already?Should be 16....they will find a way to come up with a superstar exception and reduce it to 8

If there were no suspension, why would the league announce anything?

Being that there is rampant speculation that Gordon failed a drug test and it has been reported he will be suspended...I would imagine somebody(NFL) would like to clarify that.With Brazill getting at least a year...Gordon is going to have to have significant/compelling reasons he doesn't deserve the same

that argument makes no sense on either side of this discussion.Brazil's case doesn't have anything to do with Gordon's case.

Well I could be wrong but if two players are in the same stage of drug punishment and one is suspended a year...seems like the other ..unless he has some extenuating circumstances would be facing the same punishment...no

maybe they are. my point generally is that since we don't know any of the specifics about Gordon's case, i don't see how we can come to any sort of conclusion by comparing their cases.

we know very little right now, except that he may have an appeal scheduled at the end of this month.

 

[amnesiac]

Soulfly, has there been another case where a player missed a test for a legit reason and they were given a pass?

i don't recall any, but if there was a case like that, maybe i could share some of your optimism as a Browns fan.

 

[Soulfly3]

This is the key point that most Gordon supporters seem to want to ignore. IMO, who cares if he gets 4-6-8 or 16 game ban...THIS TIME. The critical factor that impacts how Gordon should be valued is if you believe he will suddenly "get it", when he clearly hasn't learned a lesson despite the other failed tests.

You can spin his current situation any way you want, but anyone being totally honest can't say they are confident he will suddenly get it.

Your point will make little to no sense if he missed a test for a legit reason.

If he's passing tests since well over a year ago, then yes... he finally "gets it"

If he failed a test cuz he had #### in his system, then no... he doesnt get it.

Dude...you complain about attacks and then post in such a biased way it is painful to respond. HE WAS JUST PULLED OVER WITH WEED IN HIS CAR....he CLEARLY doesn't get it.....

jesus christ...

i just ####### gave you BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN, and you're still ####### complaining?

who gives a #### if he had weed in his car? did he get busted for it? NO. so it's truly irrelevant until we know for a fact he failed his test due to a substance in his system.

until that point, you're just speculating like the rest of us, and being every bit as stubborn as you claim Im being.

 

[RBM]

Man I'm really rooting for Soulfly in this one

 

[Soulfly3]

Man I'm really rooting for Soulfly in this one

Really couldnt care less if I get banned for that outburst, but Ive ad just about enough if these self-important a-holes tossing insults while acting as if their #### dont stink.

This thread is truly the epitome of hypocrisy by a lot of these finger pointers.

 

[mvereb]

This thread has completely gone off the rails. No one knows what did or didn't happen with Gordon's 'failed' drug test. My guess (which is purely speculation) is that Gordon has a legit excuse as to why he missed the test. Maybe it was a flight delay, a flight issue, whatever. Gordon's camp may be building their appeal around this notion. The NFL hasn't suspended him right away because he may have a compelling case and he has become one of the league's brightest young stars and all sports

leagues, whether its MLB, NBA, NFL, protect their stars. Anyone who disagrees is naive. As much as people don't want to admit, Johnny Football is the NFL's next golden goose and suspending his top WR for the year would kill that momentum. My guess is that Gordon gets 4-6 games under the personal conduct policy.

 

[amnesiac]

you guys keep misspelling the Browns starting QB's name.

it's spelled Hoyer.

 

[Dragon1952]

you guys keep misspelling the Browns starting QB's name.

it's spelled Hoyer.

Most likely.....too much partying from Johnny Foosball

 

[Bayhawks]

Man I'm really rooting for Soulfly in this one

Really couldnt care less if I get banned for that outburst, but Ive ad just about enough if these self-important a-holes tossing insults while acting as if their #### dont stink.

This thread is truly the epitome of hypocrisy by a lot of these finger pointers.

Please demonstrate what "insult" the "self-important #####" tossed in the post that you responded to like a child?

Bazinga!, on 04 Jul 2014 - 3:00 PM, said:

Dude...you complain about attacks and then post in such a biased way it is painful to respond. HE WAS JUST PULLED OVER WITH WEED IN HIS CAR....he CLEARLY doesn't get it.....

Was it when he called you dude?

Maybe when he said you posted in a biased way?

In either event, your response was way over the top, and is part of the reason you get the responses you are getting (which you are likely trolling for anyway).

You were asked about Gordon driving with weed in his car (even if it wasn't his, he clearly isn't staying away from it, i.e.-doesn't "get it" that weed is bad for his NFL career). You decide to ignore that question and say "if he isn't testing positive, then he gets it."

You ignore any and all information that doesn't mesh with your narrow view of this situation, deride those people who don't agree with you, then try to act like that wasn't your intent all along. Your schtick is getting old.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Rotoworld:

Josh Gordon - WR - Browns

Sources close to Josh Gordon tell the Cleveland Plain Dealer they're "concerned" Gordon "will have a tough time making it back into the NFL" if his one-year suspension stands.

The appeal of Gordon's ban will be held in late July. Per the Plain Dealer, the people are worried about Gordon losing his "support system," as he'll be away from the Browns' organization and ineligible to participate in football activities. The sources reportedly point to Jaguars WR Justin Blackmon, who was suspended indefinitely last November and is not expected to be reinstated in 2014. Gordon's Dynasty league owners should have similar worries.

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

Jul 4 - 1:14 PM

Seems like they should be concerned either way...Where was his support system when he got pulled over (with this upcoming suspension hanging over his head) and his car smelled like weed and weed was found on his passenger? Unless this kid wants to grow up on his own and be responsible it won't matter and it will happen again. Frankly the only reason this thread has 30 pages of discussion devoted to this subject is because Gordon played like a star....I don't imagine anybody is going to start a thread on how unfair it was to suspend Brazill a year for smoking weed....We are just as guilty as all of the other systems that treat superstars differently...What we should be saying is' the dumb a** deserves to get the max. for not learning his lesson. after his numerous other transgressions.

No money, no support system.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Just throwing this out there, but it most likely has to do with your rude and arrogant attitude, not your stance on how long his suspension is.

What you call arrogant, I call sticking to my convictions.

Regardless of what you think it is, that's still grounds for incessant insults? Because I don't buy nameless reports, or think that most pundits overreached their boundaries and reported false information just so they could "be the first"?

That means I should be insulted?

Ok.

When act like a d0uchebag, don't get angry when you get called one. Pretty simple.

 

[Soulfly3]

When act like a d0uchebag, don't get angry when you get called one. Pretty simple.

Is this kind of like, "dont dress like a skank, if you dont wanna be raped"?

 

[DropKick]

This is the key point that most Gordon supporters seem to want to ignore. IMO, who cares if he gets 4-6-8 or 16 game ban...THIS TIME. The critical factor that impacts how Gordon should be valued is if you believe he will suddenly "get it", when he clearly hasn't learned a lesson despite the other failed tests.

You can spin his current situation any way you want, but anyone being totally honest can't say they are confident he will suddenly get it.

Your point will make little to no sense if he missed a test for a legit reason.

If he's passing tests since well over a year ago, then yes... he finally "gets it"

If he failed a test cuz he had #### in his system, then no... he doesnt get it.

Your logic is flawed; Even if he missed the test for a legitimate reason, that doesn't prove that "he gets it". Getting pulled over with marijuana in the car is evidence he is still living dangerously given the potential consequences.

As far as a legitimate reason.... we'll find out. But, I suspect the NFL would have finalized this thing already if there was good reason to miss the test.

People will go to ridiculous lengths to justify their behavior. The excuses I've heard our head shaking. One guy who plowed into the the back of another car (causing a four car chain collision) was charged with texting while driving. His excuse? I wasn't texting... I was RECEIVING a text. He was convinced this was an important distinction...

 

[cstu]

Getting pulled over with marijuana in the car is evidence he is still living dangerously given the potential consequences.

With enough smell of weed in the air for the cop to search the car (unless you believe the cop was lying).

Without that even I'd be buying Gordon but that indicates to me how he's still living even if he simply missed a test

Maybe he's only suspended 8 weeks this year and finally 'gets it' but I'll always feel like he's a ticking time bomb for the rest of his career.

 

[Kevrunner]

Not sure what a legit excuse would be for missing a "scheduled" test would be. All of the responsibility would be on Josh Gordon. For example a delayed flight wouldn't be an acceptable excuse, only a irresponsible person would cut his time that close. If you are scheduled to be tested on Monday, you better make sure you are in town by Saturday, just to be safe. And if you have a emergency, you let the NFL officials know immediately, I'm sure that there has to be some procedures in place that would come into play.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Not sure what a legit excuse would be for missing a "scheduled" test would be. All of the responsibility would be on Josh Gordon. For example a delayed flight wouldn't be an acceptable excuse, only a irresponsible person would cut his time that close. If you are scheduled to be tested on Monday, you better make sure you are in town by Saturday, just to be safe. And if you have a emergency, you let the NFL officials know immediately, I'm sure that there has to be some procedures in place that would come into play.

If they are scheduled and he missed it or tested positive then he really is a numbskull. Are we sure they are scheduled and not random?

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Not sure what a legit excuse would be for missing a "scheduled" test would be. All of the responsibility would be on Josh Gordon. For example a delayed flight wouldn't be an acceptable excuse, only a irresponsible person would cut his time that close. If you are scheduled to be tested on Monday, you better make sure you are in town by Saturday, just to be safe. And if you have a emergency, you let the NFL officials know immediately, I'm sure that there has to be some procedures in place that would come into play.

If they are scheduled and he missed it or tested positive then he really is a numbskull. Are we sure they are scheduled and not random?

That guy is speaking out of his ###. They are not scheduled. They are random. They call you, and you have 2 hours to get there (according to Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan yesterday).

Why would random drug tests be scheduled? lmao

 

[Ditka Butkus]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875478-breaking-down-how-the-nfl-substance-abuse-policy-works

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but an interesting read. Just a couple of the highlights below.

For the substances of abuse agreement, each player will be tested during the preseason. Any other testings happen upon agreement in the player's contract—which may be different for different players.

However, and this is where it gets tricky, once you test positively for any of the above substances, it's game over—effective immediately. That player needs to basically be ready to pee in any cup, any time, anywhere as mandated by the NFL's medical officers.

The player also gets a mandated physical examination. Some positive samples could, at least hypothetically, be levels of naturally occurring chemicals that are just out of whack. If the banned substance was taken accidentally or in good faith, this is also a good opportunity to make sure it didn't do any lasting damage and to educate the player. This could also include psychological examinations for possible addiction.

Under both policies, there is a specific appeals process set in front of either the commissioner or a designated hearing officer. Penalties are thus stayed during the appeals process. Perhaps more importantly, the burden of proof is placed on the league during this process in terms of collection procedures, chain of custody, etc.

No, it isn't just "getting off on a technicality." It's how justice is supposed to work—even for athletes.

finally, the players have a right to confidentiality under both these agreements. Agents hate it when a supposedly confidential medical procedure becomes dirty laundry being aired about—especially because misinformation tends to fly around at the same time.

A league source confided in me recently that at least two suspensions in his time around the league had been erroneously reported as a substance it wasn't. A lot of entities have reason to make up news around a positive test—including both sides of the player/team aisle and less-scrupulous media hounds looking for a story. This misinformation can be created to make the positive test look either more or less serious, for a multitude of reasons.

The bottom line for an NFL player is that part of their job is managing what goes into their body. Lots of designer supplements come out that promise huge personal gains, but if they contain banned substances, they're a no-no, and naiveté isn't an excuse. Moreover, conducting one's self professionally is also part of the job, and that means following the law as it pertains to a lot of things, but especially recreational substances.

There's very little excuse for a player to be suspended under one of these policies, but the NFL is confident that the procedures in place make sure no one slips through the cracks. It's a higher standard that NFL players are held to, because the NFL isn't just a game—it's a very important and profitable business.

Michael Schottey is an NFL National Lead Writer for Bleacher Report and a member of the Pro Football Writers of America. Find more of his stuff at The Go Route and follow him on Twitter.

 

[cstu]

Failure or Refusal to Test: The Medical Advisor will be

responsible for scheduling all Tests and for ensuring that players

are notified when individual Testing will take place. No test may

be scheduled for a time that is more than 24 hours after

notification. Players will have 4 hours from the time of the

scheduled test to produce a specimen. A player who fails or refuses

to appear for required Testing at the time selected by the Medical

Advisor without a valid reason as approved by the Medical

Advisor, or fails to cooperate fully in the Testing process as

determined by the Medical Advisor, or provides a dilute3 specimen

(as determined in accordance with the procedures set forth in

Appendix A-1), will be treated as having a Positive Test. In

addition, a deliberate effort to substitute or adulterate a specimen;

or to alter a Test result;4 or to engage in prohibited doping

methods5 will be treated as a Positive Test and may subject a

player to additional discipline by the Commissioner.

All players in an Intervention Stage who become unavailable for Testing

due to travel, temporary or permanent change of residence, prior

commitments, or otherwise, are required to notify the Medical Advisor in

advance of such unavailability so that the Medical Advisor can schedule

accordingly if such request is reasonable. If a player fails to provide the

Medical Advisor with an address and telephone number where he can be

contacted, and, as a result, such player cannot be contacted when the

Medical Advisor requires that a Test be administered or the player cannot

be contacted at the address and telephone number provided to the Medical

Advisor, the player’s failure to notify the Medical Advisor or inability to

be contacted shall be considered a Positive Test.

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf

 

[amnesiac]

Soulfly, has there been another case where a player missed a test for a legit reason and they were given a pass?

i don't recall any, but if there was a case like that, maybe i could share some of your optimism as a Browns fan.

serious question. anyone?

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Soulfly, has there been another case where a player missed a test for a legit reason and they were given a pass?

i don't recall any, but if there was a case like that, maybe i could share some of your optimism as a Browns fan.

serious question. anyone?

Not sure. But Sherman successfully appealed due to faulty testing procedure. I remember he was being badmouthed too, when he came out and said he was appealing the suspension.

 

[DropKick]

Failure or Refusal to Test: The Medical Advisor will be

responsible for scheduling all Tests and for ensuring that players

are notified when individual Testing will take place. No test may

be scheduled for a time that is more than 24 hours after

notification. Players will have 4 hours from the time of the

scheduled test to produce a specimen. A player who fails or refuses

to appear for required Testing at the time selected by the Medical

Advisor without a valid reason as approved by the Medical

Advisor, or fails to cooperate fully in the Testing process as

determined by the Medical Advisor, or provides a dilute3 specimen

(as determined in accordance with the procedures set forth in

Appendix A-1), will be treated as having a Positive Test. In

addition, a deliberate effort to substitute or adulterate a specimen;

or to alter a Test result;4 or to engage in prohibited doping

methods5 will be treated as a Positive Test and may subject a

player to additional discipline by the Commissioner.

All players in an Intervention Stage who become unavailable for Testing

due to travel, temporary or permanent change of residence, prior

commitments, or otherwise, are required to notify the Medical Advisor in

advance of such unavailability so that the Medical Advisor can schedule

accordingly if such request is reasonable. If a player fails to provide the

Medical Advisor with an address and telephone number where he can be

contacted, and, as a result, such player cannot be contacted when the

Medical Advisor requires that a Test be administered or the player cannot

be contacted at the address and telephone number provided to the Medical

Advisor, the player’s failure to notify the Medical Advisor or inability to

be contacted shall be considered a Positive Test.

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf

This seems pretty strict. I imagine it takes a lot of diligence to constantly notify the Medical Advisor of your where abouts...

All players in an Intervention Stage who become unavailable for Testing due to travel, temporary or permanent change of residence, prior commitments, or otherwise, are required to notify the Medical Advisor in advance of such unavailability so that the Medical Advisor can schedule accordingly if such request is reasonable. If a player fails to provide the Medical Advisor with an address and telephone number where he can be contacted, and, as a result, such player cannot be contacted when the Medical Advisor requires that a Test be administered or the player cannot be contacted at the address and telephone number provided to the Medical Advisor, the player’s failure to notify the Medical Advisor or inability to be contacted shall be considered a Positive Test.

 

[cstu]

This seems pretty strict. I imagine it takes a lot of diligence to constantly notify the Medical Advisor of your where abouts...

It's like having a probation officer and probation is basically what players are on in this program.

 

[Rookie_Whisperer]

When act like a d0uchebag, don't get angry when you get called one. Pretty simple.

Is this kind of like, "dont dress like a skank, if you dont wanna be raped"?

No really, rape is nothing like someone calling you a ##### because you are in fact acting like a #####. Just thought I'd clarify for those slow people playing along at home.....

BTW, keep up the comic relief. It is truly entertaining!

 

[cstu]

Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that “sources close” to the wide receiver are worried Gordon could struggle to eventually be reinstated if he’s banished from the club and kept away from the team’s “support system” for an extended time, with the sources cited by Cabot reportedly drawing a parallel between Gordon and the Jaguars’ Justin Blackmon, who was banned indefinitely last year.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/04/report-some-close-to-gordon-worried-about-reinstatement-if-hes-banned-for-a-year/

 

[Bob Barker]

Failure or Refusal to Test: The Medical Advisor will be

responsible for scheduling all Tests and for ensuring that players

are notified when individual Testing will take place. No test may

be scheduled for a time that is more than 24 hours after

notification. Players will have 4 hours from the time of the

scheduled test to produce a specimen. A player who fails or refuses

to appear for required Testing at the time selected by the Medical

Advisor without a valid reason as approved by the Medical

Advisor, or fails to cooperate fully in the Testing process as

determined by the Medical Advisor, or provides a dilute3 specimen

(as determined in accordance with the procedures set forth in

Appendix A-1), will be treated as having a Positive Test. In

addition, a deliberate effort to substitute or adulterate a specimen;

or to alter a Test result;4 or to engage in prohibited doping

methods5 will be treated as a Positive Test and may subject a

player to additional discipline by the Commissioner.

All players in an Intervention Stage who become unavailable for Testing

due to travel, temporary or permanent change of residence, prior

commitments, or otherwise, are required to notify the Medical Advisor in

advance of such unavailability so that the Medical Advisor can schedule

accordingly if such request is reasonable. If a player fails to provide the

Medical Advisor with an address and telephone number where he can be

contacted, and, as a result, such player cannot be contacted when the

Medical Advisor requires that a Test be administered or the player cannot

be contacted at the address and telephone number provided to the Medical

Advisor, the player’s failure to notify the Medical Advisor or inability to

be contacted shall be considered a Positive Test.

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf

This seems pretty strict. I imagine it takes a lot of diligence to constantly notify the Medical Advisor of your where abouts...

All players in an Intervention Stage who become unavailable for Testing due to travel, temporary or permanent change of residence, prior commitments, or otherwise, are required to notify the Medical Advisor in advance of such unavailability so that the Medical Advisor can schedule accordingly if such request is reasonable. If a player fails to provide the Medical Advisor with an address and telephone number where he can be contacted, and, as a result, such player cannot be contacted when the Medical Advisor requires that a Test be administered or the player cannot be contacted at the address and telephone number provided to the Medical Advisor, the player’s failure to notify the Medical Advisor or inability to be contacted shall be considered a Positive Test.

i would think if your multi-million dollar career depended on it, it should be easy to make it a priority. Otherwise if you get called in to take a drug test and know you will test positive you can just ignore it and say you were out of town and figure out a way to pass the test

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Soulfly, has there been another case where a player missed a test for a legit reason and they were given a pass?

i don't recall any, but if there was a case like that, maybe i could share some of your optimism as a Browns fan.

serious question.anyone?

Has the NFL ever suspended two players for banned substances and then nearly two months later dished out suspensions for PEDs and left one player dangling for months ALA Josh Gordon but then turned around and banned them for a full year?

Anyone!

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The most important piece of the puzzle was posted above.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875478-breaking-down-how-the-nfl-substance-abuse-policy-works

Under both policies, there is a specific appeals process set in front of either the commissioner or a designated hearing officer. Penalties are thus stayed during the appeals process. Perhaps more importantly, the burden of proof is placed on the league during this process in terms of collection procedures, chain of custody, etc.

Last year when Von Miller's case went all the way until late August when he not only failed a test he got busted cheating and many assumed he'd get a full year suspension but he hardly got any additional time due to getting caught cheating.

The reason is the league had the burden of proof. If you read over that case you see that the league bent over backwards, erring on the side of caution becaue they hold all of the burden of proof.

Whatever the basis of the appeal we know the league is on the one responsible for producing proof and in past cases they have been extremely cautious, erring on the side of caution.

 

[Bronco Billy]

When act like a d0uchebag, don't get angry when you get called one. Pretty simple.

Is this kind of like, "dont dress like a skank, if you dont wanna be raped"?

Yes. Very perceptive. You're clearly the victim here.

 

[Bronco Billy]

The NFL hasn't suspended him right away because he may have a compelling case and he has become one of the league's brightest young stars and all sports

leagues, whether its MLB, NBA, NFL, protect their stars. Anyone who disagrees is naive.

Naive? For not believing that Gordon has a compelling case, which is what is stalling the NFL?

There is precedent for the NFL taking its time. It's not like this is the only time they've ever delayed a decision. As I posted earlier, the Fred Davis decision for an indefinite suspension took 2 months. And that's just this year. What is naive is to think that this situation is completely unique and read situations into facts when there is nothing corroborating it.

Gordon has been suspended. For how long we don't know, but that there is a scheduled appeal means a suspension has occurred. We are fairly sure it was for a missed drug test, which by the CBA is by definition equivalent to a failed drug test.

The timeline means nothing. The NFL is notorious for taking its time in being exceedingly thorough and putting forth decisions that don't get overturned on appeal and/or do not go beyond the NFL offices to the Labor Board because of noncompliance with the CBA.

Because the lawyers are involved, for all we know it is entirely possible that part or all of the delay was the NFL granting Gordon's appeal team an extension in order to gather evidence to support its position. It is not unusual for lawyers on one side to grant this when asked by lawyers on the other side. It's well within the realm of reasonable possibilities that all or part of the delay was generated by a request from Gordon's side and their requested extension has run out. That's speculation also, but no less reasonable than that the NFL was delaying because Gordon has a legitimate cause to leverage.

I'd watch who you are calling naive when you make the kind of unsupported assertive statement you did.

 

[amnesiac]

Soulfly, has there been another case where a player missed a test for a legit reason and they were given a pass?

i don't recall any, but if there was a case like that, maybe i could share some of your optimism as a Browns fan.

serious question.anyone?

Has the NFL ever suspended two players for banned substances and then nearly two months later dished out suspensions for PEDs and left one player dangling for months ALA Josh Gordon but then turned around and banned them for a full year?

Anyone!

what?

 

[cstu]

The NFL hasn't suspended him right away because he may have a compelling case and he has become one of the league's brightest young stars and all sports

leagues, whether its MLB, NBA, NFL, protect their stars. Anyone who disagrees is naive.

Naive? For not believing that Gordon has a compelling case, which is what is stalling the NFL?

There is precedent for the NFL taking its time. It's not like this is the only time they've ever delayed a decision. As I posted earlier, the Fred Davis decision for an indefinite suspension took 2 months. And that's just this year. What is naive is to think that this situation is completely unique and read situations into facts when there is nothing corroborating it.

Gordon has been suspended. For how long we don't know, but that there is a scheduled appeal means a suspension has occurred. We are fairly sure it was for a missed drug test, which by the CBA is by definition equivalent to a failed drug test.

The timeline means nothing. The NFL is notorious for taking its time in being exceedingly thorough and putting forth decisions that don't get overturned on appeal and/or do not go beyond the NFL offices to the Labor Board because of noncompliance with the CBA.

Because the lawyers are involved, for all we know it is entirely possible that part or all of the delay was the NFL granting Gordon's appeal team an extension in order to gather evidence to support its position. It is not unusual for lawyers on one side to grant this when asked by lawyers on the other side. It's well within the realm of reasonable possibilities that all or part of the delay was generated by a request from Gordon's side and their requested extension has run out. That's speculation also, but no less reasonable than that the NFL was delaying because Gordon has a legitimate cause to leverage.

I'd watch who you are calling naive when you make the kind of unsupported assertive statement you did.

What's holding up the case isn't the league - it's Gordon's lawyers. He was apparently notified in April of his suspension and only recently filed for appeal.

People should realize that we normally don't find out about the suspension letter Gordon received when a player gets it and instead find out after the appeal process has been completed.

What I find incredible to believe is that Gordon was pulled over with marijuana smelling up his car only a month after he received the suspension letter and before he filed for appeal.

 

[cstu]

The most important piece of the puzzle was posted above.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875478-breaking-down-how-the-nfl-substance-abuse-policy-works

Under both policies, there is a specific appeals process set in front of either the commissioner or a designated hearing officer. Penalties are thus stayed during the appeals process. Perhaps more importantly, the burden of proof is placed on the league during this process in terms of collection procedures, chain of custody, etc.

Last year when Von Miller's case went all the way until late August when he not only failed a test he got busted cheating and many assumed he'd get a full year suspension but he hardly got any additional time due to getting caught cheating.

The reason is the league had the burden of proof. If you read over that case you see that the league bent over backwards, erring on the side of caution becaue they hold all of the burden of proof.

Whatever the basis of the appeal we know the league is on the one responsible for producing proof and in past cases they have been extremely cautious, erring on the side of caution.

Miller's suspension would only have been 4 games for failing had he not attempted to cheat the test. Even after his appeal he received an additional 2 game suspension for cheating. He did not get away with testing positive, but negotiated his suspension for cheating down from a full season to 2 games.

 

[cstu]

Soulfly, has there been another case where a player missed a test for a legit reason and they were given a pass?

i don't recall any, but if there was a case like that, maybe i could share some of your optimism as a Browns fan.

serious question.anyone?

Has the NFL ever suspended two players for banned substances and then nearly two months later dished out suspensions for PEDs and left one player dangling for months ALA Josh Gordon but then turned around and banned them for a full year?

Anyone!

Gordon is not 'dangling', he's exhausting the appeals process.