tdhartis
Footballguy
I think that's how he meant Soulfly was wrong about Gordon today.
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WR Josh Gordon, KC (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
CR69
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
sideline vs Atlanta and up the middle today, he went the wrong way on both of them. Not gonna argue the end zone pick although you could make one. That was a bad throw by Hoyer either way.
CR69
Footballguy
T J
Footballguy
Umm, ya, he is. He projected huge things from Gordon and for whatever reason, pick one, he's been ok and that's it. No TDs. Who cares who's throwing it to him? Stats are stats.
CR69
Footballguy
I guess watching film isn't quite the same as playing. Did Gordon have a lot of plays like that last year or is it just the suspension and new offense?
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
MAC_32
Footballguy
he has as lot of what the #### are you doing moments (wrong route, quit on route, not going after a 50/50 ball), but he made enough big plays last year to over look them. Has to clean it up if he wants to be consistently great though.
CR69
Footballguy
Thanks for the insight, good to know.
Btw, I think you guys are failing to realize that exaggerated confidence is part of soulflys shtick.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Bills D is the real deal.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
georg013
Footballguy
buck naked
Footballguy
It's time to call it a day. You were right on a couple things about Gordon, but now you just look desperate to criticize him.
T J
Footballguy
Did you watch the game? I was watching for a good portion and there was roughly 4-5 targets I saw that were not even close to him and another 1-2 where he was double covered without a hope of catching it.
I would say the bigger thing is that on a team with really no offensive threats he is able to get 15 catches.
It would be nice for someone to go back and see out of the 29 targets how many should an elite WR catch? FYI answer is not 100% today that is for sure.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think you are watching with Gordon colored glasses
No I am watching with Packer colored glasses as I know a good pass and a bad one and what to expect from real world elite WRs like Cobb and Nelson and there was roughly 5+ plays where I would not expect either of those two to make the play....
Do you have any I can check out? (not being sarcastic) I can't watch him away from the ball as I haven't been watching what the Cleveland offense is really supposed to look like? I can notice off the ball issues with the Packers but not as much with other teams unless I am watching GameRewind.
MAC_32
Footballguy
i strongly recommend queuing up the game this week, I expected a few dammit Josh's last week but I expected less this week. Unfortunately, there were more. Yes, he has had a few passes come his way he had no chance of catching but I'd guess a third of them are on him, a third on Hoyer, and a third both. That doesn't even account for the penalties.
georg013
Footballguy
For most Gordon owners, like myself, he far exceeded my expectations for this game. Prior to Soulfly's prediction, I had him going 0-0-0 all season long. I will gladly take ANY production I can get. So he didn't light it up this week. Doesn't bother me one bit. Know why? At least there IS a next week! Couldn't say that back in June. Can't imagine anything (other than another suspension) derailing the positive vibes in here.
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
Rewatched the game... why? I dont know. To make sure I got things right.
Bad drop. He shouldve caught that ball, no problem.
He and Hoyer seem to have NO chemistry, despite my thoughts to the contrary that it'd evolve. It's not, and Hoyer is just not what I expected. 1TD 6INTs since CIN. He's done.
Gordon seemed to come to life when manziel got on the field. Played w a newfound energy. Why? I dont know.
Gordon looked pissed right off w Hoyer, either missing him w passes, or forcing the ball into triple coverage when there were better options. he shouldve have had that PO'd attitude, but I guess he was seriously frustrated.
Not a good game. At all. For any Brown. Hell, even Joe Thomas screwed up on multiple occasions. I'm frustrated as all hell right now.
Bring on Manziel... Never thought Id say that, but he sure as hell has gotta be better than what we've had recently.
Bad drop. He shouldve caught that ball, no problem.
He and Hoyer seem to have NO chemistry, despite my thoughts to the contrary that it'd evolve. It's not, and Hoyer is just not what I expected. 1TD 6INTs since CIN. He's done.
Gordon seemed to come to life when manziel got on the field. Played w a newfound energy. Why? I dont know.
Gordon looked pissed right off w Hoyer, either missing him w passes, or forcing the ball into triple coverage when there were better options. he shouldve have had that PO'd attitude, but I guess he was seriously frustrated.
Not a good game. At all. For any Brown. Hell, even Joe Thomas screwed up on multiple occasions. I'm frustrated as all hell right now.
Bring on Manziel... Never thought Id say that, but he sure as hell has gotta be better than what we've had recently.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
And Gordon owners should expect more of those. With some amazing statistical games thrown in, hopefully at the right time for owners.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Did you watch him at A&M? He can throw downfield just fine
Honestly, right now... I want Manziel to play. Ill take the unknown over Hoyer's lack of improvement
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Let's slow the pace a bit here... Again, this was NOT a good game from Gordon, and the Browns in general...
But let's look at the top 5 WRs this season... Have any of them had games of 75yds?
Antonio Brown - YES, 74yds
Demariyus - YES(x3) 48, 62, 31yds
Maclin - YES (x5) 45, 57, 16, 38, 59yds
Nelson - YES (x4) 59, 25, 68, 53yds
Dez - YES (x6) 55, 44, 63, 30, 15, 73yds
... He's only been back 2 games, and he's averaging 97.5ypg... Relax
As Bloom always says... Touchdowns follow Yards.
But let's look at the top 5 WRs this season... Have any of them had games of 75yds?
Antonio Brown - YES, 74yds
Demariyus - YES(x3) 48, 62, 31yds
Maclin - YES (x5) 45, 57, 16, 38, 59yds
Nelson - YES (x4) 59, 25, 68, 53yds
Dez - YES (x6) 55, 44, 63, 30, 15, 73yds
... He's only been back 2 games, and he's averaging 97.5ypg... Relax
As Bloom always says... Touchdowns follow Yards.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Gordon had two games with less than 75 yds and no TDs last year. It's not a panic-worthy day to be sure.
T J
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Statistically Gordon did have a decent first half. Manziel came in around 12 minutes left and only completed 1 pass to Gordon, Gordon had good production vs the falcs in catchup mode last week, he and Hoyer did not have that chance this week, at least not for most of the 4th.
The Bills are an excellent defense, and at times they are a very good team, and they were playing at home in a must win game following a big disaster that motivated the team last week with momentum probably continuing into this week. As someone pointed out elsewhere the run game not working hurt the pass offense as well.
I realize that Hoyer is not playing well and missing passes but I think putting in Manziel is a mistake at this juncture with the playoffs in sight. If Manziel does come in then I don't think that's very good for Gordon. This is not the time to be training a new, rookie QB. For the team it seems like an overreaction, for FF purposes it poses problems for Gordon.
The Bills are an excellent defense, and at times they are a very good team, and they were playing at home in a must win game following a big disaster that motivated the team last week with momentum probably continuing into this week. As someone pointed out elsewhere the run game not working hurt the pass offense as well.
I realize that Hoyer is not playing well and missing passes but I think putting in Manziel is a mistake at this juncture with the playoffs in sight. If Manziel does come in then I don't think that's very good for Gordon. This is not the time to be training a new, rookie QB. For the team it seems like an overreaction, for FF purposes it poses problems for Gordon.
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hoyer has been so bad that its pretty much forced manziel on the field. the browns have given hoyer a ton of rope, likely for the reasons you mentioned but when he misses every throw badly, and is more liable to throw ints than completions, they just cant keep him on the field. i dont think manziel will be all that worthwhile either, but with his legs and an offense catered to his abilities, they may be better off with him, tho i doubt gordon will be better off. its just a bad situation in cleveland.
matuski
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
See the thing is though, your opinion is always going to be tainted because of all your false bravado. You wanting Manziel to play means a lot less to me than it would have a couple weeks ago because I can't seperate schtick from reality with you anymore.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
He had Mike Evans, who IMO drove a lot of Manziel's success. Here he will have Gordon, but Evans vs Kentucky is not Gordon
Let's hope Manziel has been studying and putting the work in. I also wonder if the team (on the field) is behind him and if he is behind the team (as opposed to just playing for himself).
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
Manziel being able to throw the deep ball is not shtick or bravado, it's fact.
Watch an A&M game.
Whether or not that deep ball will work in the NFL, I dont know... Gordon will outrun most every corner, so he wins there. If it's a jump ball, then it won't be as successful because Gordon isnt Evans on jump balls
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
How is Gordon's football IQ? Meaning if Manziel starts playing Johnny Football style running around and avoiding pressure, how likely is Gordon to work himself open?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Freak athleticism nets you Cordarelle Patterson and Justin Hunter at WR.
I dont think anyone should question his football IQ. I'm sure we'll find out this Sunday how Manziel and Gordon mesh.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Of interest will be Ind CB Vontae Davis in concussion protocol this week. He was forced to leave their game vs Washington.
I think Gordon is a must start every week, but his first home game with Manzeil at QB against a team that will score a ton of points..if they are missing their best corner the big Gordon game will absolutely be this weekend.
ETA: Vontae Davis' replacement in the game was Josh Gordy.
I think Gordon is a must start every week, but his first home game with Manzeil at QB against a team that will score a ton of points..if they are missing their best corner the big Gordon game will absolutely be this weekend.
ETA: Vontae Davis' replacement in the game was Josh Gordy.
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urbanhack
Fight The Power!
shazamcaptain
Footballguy
Will manzel be bad for him?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
tdhartis
Footballguy
I'd personally rather Hoyer start this week. Manziel almost assuredly hasn't adequately developed the mental aspect of his game at this point and will probably rely far too much on his legs. While he could suprise me, I just don't see him finding the same level of success he had in college scrambling to buy time to then chunk it deep. Guy is also short, which I think has something to do with this tendency as well. In many respects he is similar to Russel Wilson, who in his first start went 18/34 for 153 yds, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
My hope is that the Browns realize they should dance with the one that brought them, Hoyer, and give him a second shot that he responds to positively much like Tannehill after nearly losing his starting position earlier this year. At least we as Gordon owners know he has success with him in the past and he zeroes in on Gordon like no other. If he shakes the funk he's in it could spell great things for Gordon. Also, like someone mentioned above, I fear that Manziel will make his one read and immediately tuck it, and if Manziel's start is anything like Wilson's I think a lot of Gordon owners will be sorely dissapointed with his day.
All of that aside, if Vontae Davis out out it could change everything. He is the defense's most important player and if Gordon doesn't have to match up across from him I start him even if Matt Schaub was at QB (okay, maybe that's a stretch). To say the least, I would have a lot more confidence in Manziel giving Gordon owners a good day if that were to happen.
My hope is that the Browns realize they should dance with the one that brought them, Hoyer, and give him a second shot that he responds to positively much like Tannehill after nearly losing his starting position earlier this year. At least we as Gordon owners know he has success with him in the past and he zeroes in on Gordon like no other. If he shakes the funk he's in it could spell great things for Gordon. Also, like someone mentioned above, I fear that Manziel will make his one read and immediately tuck it, and if Manziel's start is anything like Wilson's I think a lot of Gordon owners will be sorely dissapointed with his day.
All of that aside, if Vontae Davis out out it could change everything. He is the defense's most important player and if Gordon doesn't have to match up across from him I start him even if Matt Schaub was at QB (okay, maybe that's a stretch). To say the least, I would have a lot more confidence in Manziel giving Gordon owners a good day if that were to happen.
