Kevin White - WR - Mountaineers
West Virginia WR Kevin White ran an "unofficial" forty of 4.35 seconds with a 10 yard split of 1.55.
That is absurd for someone who stands 6'3", 215 lbs and has 9 1/4" hands. White had a dominant season in 2014 and still faced a number of physical corners. he wins in both the big and small games, meaning quickness, YAC and contested catches.
Feb 21 - 1:27 PM
Plus in dynasty leagues, WRs just seem to have so much longer of a shelf life. White was not only freakishly fast for his size, but smooth, effortless and under control in the gauntlet receiving drill. With his final season production, an impressive combo.Was leaning towards him as my #1 WR before today. No question now. Very impressive speed. Looks the part physically and in his routes.
I've got the 1.01 pick in one league and I think he's the favorite there over Gurley and Gordon.
Strong isn't getting enough attention. He wasn't coming into the combine and isn't for how well he performed today. Maybe not at the level of these 3, but underrated.I still prefer Cooper and Parker, but any doubt about trying to rank someone else third may have been put to bed today.
Dude is beasting in the combine. Impressive.Was leaning towards him as my #1 WR before today. No question now. Very impressive speed. Looks the part physically and in his routes.
I've got the 1.01 pick in one league and I think he's the favorite there over Gurley and Gordon.
I wanted to put Strong third this morning and was looking for a reason to do it today. He impressed, but I can't bump him above White. Easy #4 though.Strong isn't getting enough attention. He wasn't coming into the combine and isn't for how well he performed today. Maybe not at the level of these 3, but underrated.I still prefer Cooper and Parker, but any doubt about trying to rank someone else third may have been put to bed today.
I couldn't disagree more, Strong is more workout warrior than football player to me. Easily outside my top5, barely in my top10 right now, but might move up 1 or 2 spots.I wanted to put Strong third this morning and was looking for a reason to do it today. He impressed, but I can't bump him above White. Easy #4 though.Strong isn't getting enough attention. He wasn't coming into the combine and isn't for how well he performed today. Maybe not at the level of these 3, but underrated.I still prefer Cooper and Parker, but any doubt about trying to rank someone else third may have been put to bed today.
He could swing a lot draft day, guy needs a lot of development as he is very raw when it comes to routes. Exceptional play maker though. Can't teach what he's done and unlike others of his ilk he has actually done it on the field, consistently. That's where he separates himself from workout warriors IMHO.He needs to go some place with a track record of developing their own though. If he doesn't then he may plateau quickly.I couldn't disagree more, Strong is more workout warrior than football player to me. Easily outside my top5, barely in my top10 right now, but might move up 1 or 2 spots.I wanted to put Strong third this morning and was looking for a reason to do it today. He impressed, but I can't bump him above White. Easy #4 though.Strong isn't getting enough attention. He wasn't coming into the combine and isn't for how well he performed today. Maybe not at the level of these 3, but underrated.I still prefer Cooper and Parker, but any doubt about trying to rank someone else third may have been put to bed today.
Now that I agree with. He bailed his QB out a lot and he has very good upside, but I guess I'm more conservative there. I'd rather not wait the years this kid will take and I'd likely put him in the late 2nd (depending on draft spot), which is around WR8? Somewhere around there.He could swing a lot draft day, guy needs a lot of development as he is very raw when it comes to routes. Exceptional play maker though. Can't teach what he's done and unlike others of his ilk he has actually done it on the field, consistently. That's where he separates himself from workout warriors IMHO.He needs to go some place with a track record of developing their own though. If he doesn't then he may plateau quickly.I couldn't disagree more, Strong is more workout warrior than football player to me. Easily outside my top5, barely in my top10 right now, but might move up 1 or 2 spots.I wanted to put Strong third this morning and was looking for a reason to do it today. He impressed, but I can't bump him above White. Easy #4 though.Strong isn't getting enough attention. He wasn't coming into the combine and isn't for how well he performed today. Maybe not at the level of these 3, but underrated.I still prefer Cooper and Parker, but any doubt about trying to rank someone else third may have been put to bed today.
5 isn't looking too bad either. sit back and take whoever is left of cooper, gordon, gurley, white, parker.It's a good year to have #4. He might just push someone down to me that I shouldn't see.
Right, but I was going to see Parker anyway. With White going bonkers though, he may push Gurley/Gordon/Cooper to #4.5 isn't looking too bad either. sit back and take whoever is left of cooper, gordon, gurley, white, parker.It's a good year to have #4. He might just push someone down to me that I shouldn't see.
I don't know, but this won't be that year.Has there ever been a year where there were no RBs taken until pick three or four?
Gurley ran away with the 1.01 vote in every format on the voting thread. That thread existed with the already built in fears you site him with. White may have moved up based on today and changed some minds, but neither of the other guys did. There is always a chance it could happen. If we are looking objectively though it's going to be a pretty remote thing to happen. Gurely should not be dropping 3 spots in people's rankings.Oh, it could definitely happen. Pretty good chance that White, Cooper, and Parker will all be picked ahead of the first RB by the NFL. Gordon did not impress today and Gurley has the ACL to go along with whatever question marks people already might have had about him. If those three WRs are all high first rounders and the first RB doesn't come off the board until the late first-early second, it will present a tough decision.
The AJ Green/Julio Jones year.Has there ever been a year where there were no RBs taken until pick three or four?
Well, that's easy to say coming from the biggest Gurley fanboy on the forum. Doesn't mean it will play out that way.Gurley ran away with the 1.01 vote in every format on the voting thread. That thread existed with the already built in fears you site him with. White may have moved up based on today and changed some minds, but neither of the other guys did. There is always a chance it could happen. If we are looking objectively though it's going to be a pretty remote thing to happen. Gurely should not be dropping 3 spots in people's rankings.Oh, it could definitely happen. Pretty good chance that White, Cooper, and Parker will all be picked ahead of the first RB by the NFL. Gordon did not impress today and Gurley has the ACL to go along with whatever question marks people already might have had about him. If those three WRs are all high first rounders and the first RB doesn't come off the board until the late first-early second, it will present a tough decision.
Ingram was taken 1.1 in a few of my dynasty leagues that year. Not by me mind you, but it happened a few places.The AJ Green/Julio Jones year.Has there ever been a year where there were no RBs taken until pick three or four?
What "facts" are these exactly?
The predictable EBF name calling in the face of actual facts.
The fact was pretty simply put. The SP poll that easily voted Gurley as the 1.01 in all formats. You can try and cloud an unbiased vote by name calling that does nothing to actually further the debate. It doesn't change the fact that the results are what they are.What "facts" are these exactly?
The predictable EBF name calling in the face of actual facts.
Every single NFL.com mock had Cooper/Parker/White ahead of Gurley even before today and I'd argue that all three did fairly well:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/mock-drafts?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-mockdraft
Neither one of us can predict May's rookie ADP today, but if it mirrors the NFL draft (which it usually does) and if the NFL draft mirrors these early mocks, there's a very real chance that you'll see Gurley and Gordon sliding to 3-5 in a lot of drafts. Not that controversial of an opinion really.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I don't know that I've ever seen you acknowledge a weakness with Gurley. You defend and pimp him at every opportunity. Consider the possibility that not everyone is quite that 100% all-in on him (especially after the injury) and this discussion will be less jarring.
So your whole argument is based on Shark Pool polls from before the combine (let alone the draft itself)?The fact was pretty simply put. The SP poll that easily voted Gurley as the 1.01 in all formats. You can try and cloud an unbiased vote by name calling that does nothing to actually further the debate. It doesn't change the fact that the results are what they are.
That wasn't the whole point but you seem to gloss over the points of every post so why bother? This thread is about White so I'll let it get back to that topic.White undoubtly did enough today to move up in the consensus rankings. I think most put too much emphasis on the combine but his performance is hard to ignore.So your whole argument is based on Shark Pool polls from before the combine (let alone the draft itself)?The fact was pretty simply put. The SP poll that easily voted Gurley as the 1.01 in all formats. You can try and cloud an unbiased vote by name calling that does nothing to actually further the debate. It doesn't change the fact that the results are what they are.
Again, go back in time and see how accurate the January/February polls are in terms of predicting April-May ADP.
My guess would be: Not very.
Dynasty rookie drafts don't mirror NFL draft positions. They usually reflect talent first, then where the players are drafted and their league scoring rules.What "facts" are these exactly?
The predictable EBF name calling in the face of actual facts.
Every single NFL.com mock had Cooper/Parker/White ahead of Gurley even before today and I'd argue that all three did fairly well:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/mock-drafts?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-mockdraft
Neither one of us can predict May's rookie ADP today, but if it mirrors the NFL draft (which it usually does) and if the NFL draft mirrors these early mocks, there's a very real chance that you'll see Gurley and Gordon sliding to 3-5 in a lot of drafts. Not that controversial of an opinion really.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I don't know that I've ever seen you acknowledge a weakness with Gurley. You defend and pimp him at every opportunity. Consider the possibility that not everyone is quite that 100% all-in on him (especially after the injury) and this discussion will be less jarring.
Yea, there is some adjustment for positional value and league format, but generally the high picks in the NFL draft tend to be the high picks in the rookie drafts (see: Watkins, Evans, Cooks, Beckham etc).Dynasty rookie drafts don't mirror NFL draft positions. They usually reflect where the players are drafted and their league scoring rules.What "facts" are these exactly?
The predictable EBF name calling in the face of actual facts.
Every single NFL.com mock had Cooper/Parker/White ahead of Gurley even before today and I'd argue that all three did fairly well:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/mock-drafts?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-mockdraft
Neither one of us can predict May's rookie ADP today, but if it mirrors the NFL draft (which it usually does) and if the NFL draft mirrors these early mocks, there's a very real chance that you'll see Gurley and Gordon sliding to 3-5 in a lot of drafts. Not that controversial of an opinion really.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I don't know that I've ever seen you acknowledge a weakness with Gurley. You defend and pimp him at every opportunity. Consider the possibility that not everyone is quite that 100% all-in on him (especially after the injury) and this discussion will be less jarring.
Talent first, then landing spot, followed by league structure.Yea, there is some adjustment for positional value and league format, but generally the high picks in the NFL draft tend to be the high picks in the rookie drafts (see: Watkins, Evans, Cooks, Beckham etc).Dynasty rookie drafts don't mirror NFL draft positions. They usually reflect where the players are drafted and their league scoring rules.What "facts" are these exactly?
The predictable EBF name calling in the face of actual facts.
Every single NFL.com mock had Cooper/Parker/White ahead of Gurley even before today and I'd argue that all three did fairly well:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/mock-drafts?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-mockdraft
Neither one of us can predict May's rookie ADP today, but if it mirrors the NFL draft (which it usually does) and if the NFL draft mirrors these early mocks, there's a very real chance that you'll see Gurley and Gordon sliding to 3-5 in a lot of drafts. Not that controversial of an opinion really.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I don't know that I've ever seen you acknowledge a weakness with Gurley. You defend and pimp him at every opportunity. Consider the possibility that not everyone is quite that 100% all-in on him (especially after the injury) and this discussion will be less jarring.
All three of my leagues last year went Watkins/Evans at 1 and 2.The AJ Green/Julio Jones year.Has there ever been a year where there were no RBs taken until pick three or four?
I picked Watkins one and the guy picking second also picked third so I don't know if he preferred Evans or (giggle) Sankey.All three of my leagues last year went Watkins/Evans at 1 and 2.The AJ Green/Julio Jones year.Has there ever been a year where there were no RBs taken until pick three or four?
You're acting like this is a new assumption. I think most people already expected Cooper to go 4th with Gurley outside the top 20 when they ranked Gurley as the 1.01 pick in the current polls. There's no need to put an "if" in front of the idea of RBs going in the top 10, no one was expecting that anyway.EBF said:It seems likely that White, Cooper, and Parker will all be first round NFL daft picks. If they go in the top 10-20 and no backs go that high, I think you're going to see Gordon and Gurley dropping to 3-5 in many rookie drafts.
Which is of course why you think Mariota/Winston will likely be the top picks, right?EBF said:Neither one of us can predict May's rookie ADP today, but if it mirrors the NFL draft (which it usually does)
ODB was picked in the early 1st round of the NFL draft and had an ADP of 1.08 in MFL rookie drafts. Bishop Sankey and Carlos Hyde were picked in the late 2nd round of the NFL draft and had an ADP of 1.03 and 1.05 in MFL rookie drafts.EBF said:Yea, there is some adjustment for positional value and league format, but generally the high picks in the NFL draft tend to be the high picks in the rookie drafts (see: Watkins, Evans, Cooks, Beckham etc).
It's one thing to say you'd pick X guy in January when it's just talk and there's nothing at stake, but it's harder to make that pick when you're on the clock in May if a lot of things have changed. You can say you'd pick Gurley 1.01, but if White/Cooper/Parker all go in the top 15, do you really pass on them for Gurley if he goes late first? I think you'll see a lot of those early voters flip-flop at that point. Heck, I think people on these boards had Damian Williams rated above Demaryius Thomas in January of 2010. Where were those people picking Williams ahead of Thomas in April?You're acting like this is a new assumption. I think most people already expected Cooper to go 4th with Gurley outside the top 20 when they ranked Gurley as the 1.01 pick in the current polls. There's no need to put an "if" in front of the idea of RBs going in the top 10, no one was expecting that anyway.EBF said:It seems likely that White, Cooper, and Parker will all be first round NFL daft picks. If they go in the top 10-20 and no backs go that high, I think you're going to see Gordon and Gurley dropping to 3-5 in many rookie drafts.
Which is of course why you think Mariota/Winston will likely be the top picks, right?EBF said:Neither one of us can predict May's rookie ADP today, but if it mirrors the NFL draft (which it usually does)
ODB was picked in the early 1st round of the NFL draft and had an ADP of 1.08 in MFL rookie drafts. Bishop Sankey and Carlos Hyde were picked in the late 2nd round of the NFL draft and had an ADP of 1.03 and 1.05 in MFL rookie drafts.EBF said:Yea, there is some adjustment for positional value and league format, but generally the high picks in the NFL draft tend to be the high picks in the rookie drafts (see: Watkins, Evans, Cooks, Beckham etc).
I realize it can sometimes be difficult to separate reality from our own league tendencies or our own philosophies, but surely you're not ignorant to the fact that rookie running backs are generally selected in fantasy drafts well above where their NFL draft spot would dictate. There were 9 WRs picked ahead of Sankey in the NFL draft last year and only 2 had a higher fantasy ADP than him, and I think it's safe to assume that Gordon and Gurley are unlikely to go at the 60th pick of the NFL draft.
I don't think it's that controversial. I don't think it will happen but it could, especially if Gurley's physical doesn't go well or if the RBs go to bad situations. Rather, my fault is more with the assumptions being made that are leading you to that conclusion.Not sure why this is a controversial opinion worth arguing over.
Well, it all ties back to the idea that White blew the lid off the WR competition today and is now (IMO) the logical choice at 1.01 in PPR rookie drafts.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473098/article/jeremiah-kevin-white-clearcut-no-1-wide-receiver-in-draft
Or...White could be drafted by the Raiders, Cooper by the Jets. Gordon and Gurley could end up on Dal and Indy. DGB on NE. How would a rookie draft play out if that was the case?Well, it all ties back to the idea that White blew the lid off the WR competition today and is now (IMO) the logical choice at 1.01 in PPR rookie drafts.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473098/article/jeremiah-kevin-white-clearcut-no-1-wide-receiver-in-draft
He looks fast in shorts in a straight line. Let me know when he does it in a game while running a route. White's performance raises more questions than it answers. With the big question being, "Why doesn't he show this speed in games?"Well, it all ties back to the idea that White blew the lid off the WR competition today and is now (IMO) the logical choice at 1.01 in PPR rookie drafts.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473098/article/jeremiah-kevin-white-clearcut-no-1-wide-receiver-in-draft
Patterson had one 100+ yard game in college. White had nine last season. I think it's unfair to suggest that White is some kind of an underachiever. On the balance, his production was outstanding last season. He finished top 10 nationally in receptions, receiving yards, and receptions of 25+. To compare him to a glorified return man like Patterson seems well off the mark. They're also two totally different athletes who move differently on the field.He looks fast in shorts in a straight line. Let me know when he does it in a game while running a route. White's performance raises more questions than it answers. With the big question being, "Why doesn't he show this speed in games?"Well, it all ties back to the idea that White blew the lid off the WR competition today and is now (IMO) the logical choice at 1.01 in PPR rookie drafts.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473098/article/jeremiah-kevin-white-clearcut-no-1-wide-receiver-in-draft
Why wsn't a 215-lb WR with 4.35 speed blazing past lowly Big 12 DBs on a regular basis? He actually reminds me a lot of Cordarrelle Patterson in this aspect.
I find it kind of funny you're all over Kevin White now after today.Patterson had one 100+ yard game in college. White had nine last season. I think it's unfair to suggest that White is some kind of an underachiever. On the balance, his production was outstanding last season. He finished top 10 nationally in receptions, receiving yards, and receptions of 25+. To compare him to a glorified return man like Patterson seems well off the mark. They're also two totally different athletes who move differently on the field.He looks fast in shorts in a straight line. Let me know when he does it in a game while running a route. White's performance raises more questions than it answers. With the big question being, "Why doesn't he show this speed in games?"Well, it all ties back to the idea that White blew the lid off the WR competition today and is now (IMO) the logical choice at 1.01 in PPR rookie drafts.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473098/article/jeremiah-kevin-white-clearcut-no-1-wide-receiver-in-draft
Why wsn't a 215-lb WR with 4.35 speed blazing past lowly Big 12 DBs on a regular basis? He actually reminds me a lot of Cordarrelle Patterson in this aspect.
I think it's hard to manufacture sprint speed. Not all guys who play fast test fast, but you can't run a 4.35 if you're not fast. You just can't. Every now and then you get somebody like Jason Hill (former Washington State) who comes out of nowhere with a 40 time that seems to defy everything in his tape, but by and large the stopwatch doesn't lie. And White's time was so fast that even if we buy the idea that he doesn't play up to that speed, you could add a whole tenth to it and it would still be a very strong time for a 6'3" receiver with good possession skills and route running ability.
I've learned over the years not to over-think things too much in the draft in the rare cases when you get a guy who has the total package. White aced his workout today. He looked good in the drills. His college production was excellent. He's probably going to be a high first round pick. He has a physique and playing style that should translate well to the NFL game. His game film might not be quite as impressive as you might expect, but geeze it's not bad at all. It's very good.
It's hard to find a guy who checks all the boxes. Those are the players I'm looking for every year and I usually only find 2-3 of them per draft.
Cody Latimer...http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=718727&page=1entry17736191Factoring in triangle numbers and other workout information, skill set, playing style, what comp player (or combination) does White remind the thread of?
Mayock already said Cooper reminds him somewhat of Torry Holt. The smoothness and polished route running skills also sound a bit like Reggie Wayne.
Even before all this hype and Combine numbers, I've he reminds me of Larry Fizt. The way he high point the ball, catches with his hands, shield defenders and attacks the ball. He doesn't have to be open, just throw it in his direction and watch what he does.Factoring in triangle numbers and other workout information, skill set, playing style, what comp player (or combination) does White remind the thread of?
Mayock already said Cooper reminds him somewhat of Torry Holt. The smoothness and polished route running skills also sound a bit like Reggie Wayne.