Yes, Another Boring "ethical dilemma" Question (1 Viewer)

[Deamon]

I know this is long but If anyone has any input on if this is totally fair or not, it would be much appreciated.

Owner A and Owner B (commissioner) are close friends and are always talking about their teams. Owner A owns Reggie Bush and 2 weeks ago screwed up his Waiver order wanting Lamar Miller and Commissioner got him instead. Owner A joked to commissioner many times about how he really wanted Miller to handcuff bush and it sucked that he didn't get him. He also joked to the commissioner to trade him miller since he needs him for bush insurance. The Commissioner declined saying he really liked Miller.

Commissioner drops Miller on Thursday afternoon, however, he does so when he is logged in as commissioner and the email do all the owners informing them of the drop aparently doesn't happen when logged in as commish. Owner A is completely unaware Miller is sitting on waivers as no email was sent and that's how all other waivers have been notifying owners all year. On SATURDAY Owner A tells commissioner he really wants miller and he should just give him to him (in a joking manner), commissioner says no (even though he had dropped him), and changes subject.

Tuesday waivers roll around and Miller gets picked up by another owner. Owner A approaches Commissioner and asks why he didn't get an email, and why he would act like he still had Miller when he asked him for him a couple days prior.

Commissioner claims he dropped miller on thurs hoping no one would pick him back up by sunday and he would maybe try to re-acquire him on tuesdays waivers and that its not his responsibility to tell owner A he had dropped him because he was his competition (again, even though no email was sent out).

Did the commissioner act in good taste here or when owner A said "can I have miller" should he have said "hes on waivers" or "no you can't"

Thanks!

 

[Gawain]

No, commish messed up bad. When he noticed no email went out, if that's what normally happens, he should have emailed the league. the real problem is you can't take Miller away from the team that has him now.

How to penalize the commish? Beats me, but if his admission that he was trying to sneak Miller through is pretty damning.

 

[Deamon]

No, commish messed up bad. When he noticed no email went out, if that's what normally happens, he should have emailed the league. the real problem is you can't take Miller away from the team that has him now. How to penalize the commish? Beats me, but if his admission that he was trying to sneak Miller through is pretty damning.

He admitted he didn't want anyone to pick him up, but not that he logged in as commish to purposely do that. I think I believe him in that he didn't make the move as commish purposely in order for no one to see. I don't think he knew commissioner initiated drops didn't get emailed out like they would have if he did it logged in as an owner.... and prob didn't notice hiimself that the email didn't go out (and I guess when commissioner performs the drop the emails never get sent out). I just brought it up to him today that I never got the email because I checked by inbox as to why I never knew he had been let go. Yet he knew on Saturday that I was unaware Miller had been dropped because I again told him I wished I had him. Today he said he thought I somehow stupidly didn't know he was dropped, so he wasn't going to inform me that he was since his 'plan' all along was to pick him up again on Tuesday morning.Thanks for the reply

 

[pittstownkiller]

Sneaky commissioners suck. I think his story is weak since if the email went out he knows he was going to lose him and if it was the case he was going to lose why wouldn't he try to trade him; he tried to sneak him through waivers so he could retain him. I would kick him out next year.

 

[massraider]

In leagues I am in the Bush owner would get Miller

 

[pittstownkiller]

In leagues I am in the Bush owner would get Miller

Yeah but that leaves a pissed off owner who did nothing wrong.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The commish knew that an e-mail didn't go out, and he's the ONLY one in the league who could drop someone and not have one go out. He tried to use that to his advantage. This is a bad commissioner and he should be replaced now. No telling what else he's doing that you don't even know about. Just by the details of the story, it's obviously a league of friends. That makes the commish even more of a loser.

What would have happened if the commish wasn't a loser and the e-mail had gone out? Would that other owner have had waiver priority and gotten him? Would anyone else have gotten him? I know the owner who has him did nothing wrong, but he got him as a benefit of an illegal move by a commissioner. That shouldn't stand.

The NFL might decide to let unfair decisions go uncorrected, but you don't have to do any such thing. Put Miller in the hands of the right owner (the one who would have had priority and selected him) and move on.

 

[Deamon]

The commish knew that an e-mail didn't go out, and he's the ONLY one in the league who could drop someone and not have one go out. He tried to use that to his advantage. This is a bad commissioner and he should be replaced now. No telling what else he's doing that you don't even know about. Just by the details of the story, it's obviously a league of friends. That makes the commish even more of a loser.What would have happened if the commish wasn't a loser and the e-mail had gone out? Would that other owner have had waiver priority and gotten him? Would anyone else have gotten him? I know the owner who has him did nothing wrong, but he got him as a benefit of an illegal move by a commissioner. That shouldn't stand.The NFL might decide to let unfair decisions go uncorrected, but you don't have to do any such thing. Put Miller in the hands of the right owner (the one who would have had priority and selected him) and move on.

It was done during first come first serve which we have from Tuesdays until Sundays. Thursday he dropped Miller (again I actually don't think he KNEW the email wouldn't go out if he made the move logged in as commissioner, I think he just happened to be logged in as commissioner and performed the drop for his own team that way). Then Saturday, Owner A told him he wished the commissioner would drop him so he could grab Miller off first come first serve but the commissioner chose not to tell owner A that he already HAD dropped miller and he COULD take him any time he wanted. He chose not to tell owner A that he was dropped because he was unaware the email didn't go out and figured owner A just messed up and didn't read his email. Since the Commissioner was going to attempt to take him back on tuesday, he chose not to tell owner A.

 

[DoubleG]

The commish knew that an e-mail didn't go out, and he's the ONLY one in the league who could drop someone and not have one go out. He tried to use that to his advantage. This is a bad commissioner and he should be replaced now. No telling what else he's doing that you don't even know about. Just by the details of the story, it's obviously a league of friends. That makes the commish even more of a loser.What would have happened if the commish wasn't a loser and the e-mail had gone out? Would that other owner have had waiver priority and gotten him? Would anyone else have gotten him? I know the owner who has him did nothing wrong, but he got him as a benefit of an illegal move by a commissioner. That shouldn't stand.The NFL might decide to let unfair decisions go uncorrected, but you don't have to do any such thing. Put Miller in the hands of the right owner (the one who would have had priority and selected him) and move on.

This is a commish, trying to use his "commish powers" to his advantage. That's not competetive, that's dishonest. I think I would consider stepping out of that league ASAP. Crappy owners can hurt a league - an untrustworthy commish can destroy one.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Team B cannot do his teams movements while logged in as Commissioner. He must do so logged in on his team.

The rest of the league (we use an Emergency Rules Committee for these unforeseen circumstances) should levy a penalty/fine upon him.

 

[Addai's Adidas]

What advantage would the commish have in this scenario?

 

[Novice2]

What advantage would the commish have in this scenario?

He didn't babysit the league!

 

[belljr]

The commish knew that an e-mail didn't go out, and he's the ONLY one in the league who could drop someone and not have one go out. He tried to use that to his advantage. This is a bad commissioner and he should be replaced now. No telling what else he's doing that you don't even know about. Just by the details of the story, it's obviously a league of friends. That makes the commish even more of a loser.What would have happened if the commish wasn't a loser and the e-mail had gone out? Would that other owner have had waiver priority and gotten him? Would anyone else have gotten him? I know the owner who has him did nothing wrong, but he got him as a benefit of an illegal move by a commissioner. That shouldn't stand.The NFL might decide to let unfair decisions go uncorrected, but you don't have to do any such thing. Put Miller in the hands of the right owner (the one who would have had priority and selected him) and move on.

It was done during first come first serve which we have from Tuesdays until Sundays. Thursday he dropped Miller (again I actually don't think he KNEW the email wouldn't go out if he made the move logged in as commissioner, I think he just happened to be logged in as commissioner and performed the drop for his own team that way). Then Saturday, Owner A told him he wished the commissioner would drop him so he could grab Miller off first come first serve but the commissioner chose not to tell owner A that he already HAD dropped miller and he COULD take him any time he wanted. He chose not to tell owner A that he was dropped because he was unaware the email didn't go out and figured owner A just messed up and didn't read his email. Since the Commissioner was going to attempt to take him back on tuesday, he chose not to tell owner A.

If this is how it played out and was not intentional then, no he is not required to tell a guy, i already dropped him...However it sounds like he was using commissioner access to bypass the system which is wrong

 

[Psychopav]

Sounds like maybe an innocent mistake if the commish didn't realize that no e-mail had gone out. If you two -er, if your "friend" is pals with the commish, I'd think be the bigger man and let it go, but not after a heart to heart about what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

[belljr]

Sounds like maybe an innocent mistake if the commish didn't realize that no e-mail had gone out. If you two -er, if your "friend" is pals with the commish, I'd think be the bigger man and let it go, but not after a heart to heart about what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

To me the op sounds more butt hurt the guy didnt say oh i released him, but chose not too

 

[Psychopav]

Sounds like maybe an innocent mistake if the commish didn't realize that no e-mail had gone out. If you two -er, if your "friend" is pals with the commish, I'd think be the bigger man and let it go, but not after a heart to heart about what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

To me the op sounds more butt hurt the guy didnt say oh i released him, but chose not too

That may be so, but if that were all there was to it, and the op just missed the e-mail, there would be nothing ethically amiss.

 

[gianmarco]

So he just happened to log in as commish just this one time when he was trying to sneak a player through?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[Buclove]

I know this is long but If anyone has any input on if this is totally fair or not, it would be much appreciated.

Owner A and Owner B (commissioner) are close friends and are always talking about their teams. Owner A owns Reggie Bush and 2 weeks ago screwed up his Waiver order wanting Lamar Miller and Commissioner got him instead. Owner A joked to commissioner many times about how he really wanted Miller to handcuff bush and it sucked that he didn't get him. He also joked to the commissioner to trade him miller since he needs him for bush insurance. The Commissioner declined saying he really liked Miller.

You got to have the bush insurance.

Owner A should have paid attention to the waiver wire.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Doesn't the transaction still show up on the website?

 

[dboysrock94]

How do you not check your free agent wire or free agent acquisitions anything like that if you were a true fantasy competitor you would have known miller was on the waiver not just thru a email. Always pay close attention

 

[belljr]

Sounds like maybe an innocent mistake if the commish didn't realize that no e-mail had gone out. If you two -er, if your "friend" is pals with the commish, I'd think be the bigger man and let it go, but not after a heart to heart about what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

To me the op sounds more butt hurt the guy didnt say oh i released him, but chose not too

That may be so, but if that were all there was to it, and the op just missed the e-mail, there would be nothing ethically amiss.

I agree. I posted earlier, if it plays out how he portrayed it later where he believes there was no intent to not have an email go out, but he felt the guy should have told him when he was asked directly about trading him, oh well.But it sounds like he did it knowingly to have it fall under the radar.

 

[Sienna2012]

I always check who is available on wire and do not need an e-mail alert to remind me to do so. Sounds like the e-mail is just an excuse for the owner to get who he wanted. Sounds like two people being shady

 

[Johnny Blood]

Did the commissioner act in good taste here or when owner A said "can I have miller" should he have said "hes on waivers" or "no you can't"

He can say whatever he wants in his capacity as a team owner. He is no different from anyone else. If you ask me about a player I am free to hide information or lie to you. I risk hurting my credibility, but it isn't cheating. The real problem is that he dropped the player in a way that the normal notification did not go out. That is an abuse of commissioner powers.

 

[Psychopav]

Some questions which might be helpful:

Has this commish ever dropped players gfrom commish mode before?

How long has this guy been commish?

How long have you used the website?

Did the commish say it was a mistake and assure you that, going forward, he would execute transactions outside of commish mode?

 

[T Love]

Let me take a wild guess here. You are owner A....

 

[DoubleG]

I know this is long but If anyone has any input on if this is totally fair or not, it would be much appreciated.

Owner A and Owner B (commissioner) are close friends and are always talking about their teams. Owner A owns Reggie Bush and 2 weeks ago screwed up his Waiver order wanting Lamar Miller and Commissioner got him instead. Owner A joked to commissioner many times about how he really wanted Miller to handcuff bush and it sucked that he didn't get him. He also joked to the commissioner to trade him miller since he needs him for bush insurance. The Commissioner declined saying he really liked Miller.

You got to have the bush insurance.

Owner A should have paid attention to the waiver wire.

FavreCo? It's YOU!!!!

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

No, commish messed up bad. When he noticed no email went out, if that's what normally happens, he should have emailed the league. the real problem is you can't take Miller away from the team that has him now. How to penalize the commish? Beats me, but if his admission that he was trying to sneak Miller through is pretty damning.

He admitted he didn't want anyone to pick him up, but not that he logged in as commish to purposely do that. I think I believe him in that he didn't make the move as commish purposely in order for no one to see. I don't think he knew commissioner initiated drops didn't get emailed out like they would have if he did it logged in as an owner.... and prob didn't notice hiimself that the email didn't go out (and I guess when commissioner performs the drop the emails never get sent out). I just brought it up to him today that I never got the email because I checked by inbox as to why I never knew he had been let go. Yet he knew on Saturday that I was unaware Miller had been dropped because I again told him I wished I had him. Today he said he thought I somehow stupidly didn't know he was dropped, so he wasn't going to inform me that he was since his 'plan' all along was to pick him up again on Tuesday morning.Thanks for the reply

Would the owner have had waiver priority over the guy who it him? If it was a weekend drop wouldn't ave been able to grab miller last week.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Did the commissioner act in good taste here or when owner A said "can I have miller" should he have said "hes on waivers" or "no you can't"

He can say whatever he wants in his capacity as a team owner. He is no different from anyone else. If you ask me about a player I am free to hide information or lie to you. I risk hurting my credibility, but it isn't cheating. The real problem is that he dropped the player in a way that the normal notification did not go out. That is an abuse of commissioner powers.

This, though it is also incumbent upon the bush owner to check the transaction reports too.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Doesn't the transaction still show up on the website?

This.I always assume email notifications and whatnot are just an added helper and not something to rely on.There are two very relevant questions here..1) Is the transaction log shown on the website like it is for most FF software?2) Has the commish ever accidentally done a transaction while logged in as the commish before?

 

[Quibbler]

What's the question here?

If it's just whether the commissioner acted shadily when he didn't tell owner A that Miller was on waivers, then the answer is obviously yes. The whole sequence of events ("accidentally" releasing him in a way that wouldn't alert the league and changing the subject when the guy is brought up later) is extremely slimy.

But if it's what to do about that, then I think the answer is nothing. Another owner has Miller. You can't take him away from that team. So the incident is over. Although I'd look for a new commissioner next year.

 

[Deamon]

Doesn't the transaction still show up on the website?

This.I always assume email notifications and whatnot are just an added helper and not something to rely on.There are two very relevant questions here..1) Is the transaction log shown on the website like it is for most FF software?2) Has the commish ever accidentally done a transaction while logged in as the commish before?

1. The transaction log IS shown on the website, yet this was the only time the email didn't go out.2. This was the first transaction done logged in as commish.

 

[Deamon]

No, commish messed up bad. When he noticed no email went out, if that's what normally happens, he should have emailed the league. the real problem is you can't take Miller away from the team that has him now. How to penalize the commish? Beats me, but if his admission that he was trying to sneak Miller through is pretty damning.

He admitted he didn't want anyone to pick him up, but not that he logged in as commish to purposely do that. I think I believe him in that he didn't make the move as commish purposely in order for no one to see. I don't think he knew commissioner initiated drops didn't get emailed out like they would have if he did it logged in as an owner.... and prob didn't notice hiimself that the email didn't go out (and I guess when commissioner performs the drop the emails never get sent out). I just brought it up to him today that I never got the email because I checked by inbox as to why I never knew he had been let go. Yet he knew on Saturday that I was unaware Miller had been dropped because I again told him I wished I had him. Today he said he thought I somehow stupidly didn't know he was dropped, so he wasn't going to inform me that he was since his 'plan' all along was to pick him up again on Tuesday morning.Thanks for the reply

Would the owner have had waiver priority over the guy who it him? If it was a weekend drop wouldn't ave been able to grab miller last week.

First come first served from Tuesday to Sunday, so at the time of the conversation on saturday (or if email went out when he dropped miller on thursday), owner A could have just gone and picked him up right away without any priority needed had he been aware.

 

[Deamon]

Let me take a wild guess here. You are owner A....

Yep. Wasn't trying to hide it, just figured it would be easier to write it out this way.

 

[Deamon]

Some questions which might be helpful:Has this commish ever dropped players gfrom commish mode before?How long has this guy been commish?How long have you used the website?Did the commish say it was a mistake and assure you that, going forward, he would execute transactions outside of commish mode?

No this was the first transaction logged in as commish.5 years as commish.5 years have used website.He said he would look into why the email was not sent out and said he didn't think to log back on as the owner before he made the transaction.

 

[Deamon]

Sounds like maybe an innocent mistake if the commish didn't realize that no e-mail had gone out. If you two -er, if your "friend" is pals with the commish, I'd think be the bigger man and let it go, but not after a heart to heart about what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

To me the op sounds more butt hurt the guy didnt say oh i released him, but chose not too

That may be so, but if that were all there was to it, and the op just missed the e-mail, there would be nothing ethically amiss.

Didn't 'miss' the email, as no email was sent out for this transaction this one time.

 

[Deamon]

What advantage would the commish have in this scenario?

He claims to have wanted to re-acquire him the following tuesday on waivers, so his advantage in not telling me was that I was competition and he knew I wanted Miller (i had told him all week I wished I had him).

 

[Quibbler]

Sounds like maybe an innocent mistake if the commish didn't realize that no e-mail had gone out. If you two -er, if your "friend" is pals with the commish, I'd think be the bigger man and let it go, but not after a heart to heart about what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

To me the op sounds more butt hurt the guy didnt say oh i released him, but chose not too

That may be so, but if that were all there was to it, and the op just missed the e-mail, there would be nothing ethically amiss.

Didn't 'miss' the email, as no email was sent out for this transaction this one time.

What he's saying is if an email had gone out, and if you'd somehow just missed that notification, then he'd have no problem with the guy changing the subject when Miller came up later. Thus, it's possible that this is all an innocent mistake, where commish thought an email had gone out and you'd just missed it.

 

[Psychopav]

Let me take a wild guess here. You are owner A....

Yep. Wasn't trying to hide it, just figured it would be easier to write it out this way.

Seems kind of shady...

 

[Psychopav]

Sounds like maybe an innocent mistake if the commish didn't realize that no e-mail had gone out. If you two -er, if your "friend" is pals with the commish, I'd think be the bigger man and let it go, but not after a heart to heart about what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

To me the op sounds more butt hurt the guy didnt say oh i released him, but chose not too

That may be so, but if that were all there was to it, and the op just missed the e-mail, there would be nothing ethically amiss.

Didn't 'miss' the email, as no email was sent out for this transaction this one time.

I caught that. My point was just that the only ethical question here is in the commish's intent in doing the drop in commish status. Nothing at all wrong with remaining silent even though he knew Miller was on the WW when you spoke.

 

[Psychopav]

Sounds like maybe an innocent mistake if the commish didn't realize that no e-mail had gone out. If you two -er, if your "friend" is pals with the commish, I'd think be the bigger man and let it go, but not after a heart to heart about what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

To me the op sounds more butt hurt the guy didnt say oh i released him, but chose not too

That may be so, but if that were all there was to it, and the op just missed the e-mail, there would be nothing ethically amiss.

Didn't 'miss' the email, as no email was sent out for this transaction this one time.

What he's saying is if an email had gone out, and if you'd somehow just missed that notification, then he'd have no problem with the guy changing the subject when Miller came up later. Thus, it's possible that this is all an innocent mistake, where commish thought an email had gone out and you'd just missed it.

Sounds like what happened to me. Even before taking into account the hit to the OP's credibility from withholding information from the Shark Pool by failing to name himself as owner A.

 

[Deamon]

Let me take a wild guess here. You are owner A....

Yep. Wasn't trying to hide it, just figured it would be easier to write it out this way.

Seems kind of shady...

Why does it matter if I called myself "owner A" or "ME"? I was trying to hear objective opinions of the situation, I laid out all the facts and even defended the commissioner saying I didn't think it was his intention to purposely make the move that way in order to not have an email go out. That's irrelevant though, I was simply asking people's opinion on the move the commissioner made, not on myself.

 

[Psychopav]

Let me take a wild guess here. You are owner A....

Yep. Wasn't trying to hide it, just figured it would be easier to write it out this way.

Seems kind of shady...

Why does it matter if I called myself "owner A" or "ME"? I was trying to hear objective opinions of the situation, I laid out all the facts and even defended the commissioner saying I didn't think it was his intention to purposely make the move that way in order to not have an email go out. That's irrelevant though, I was simply asking people's opinion on the move the commissioner made, not on myself.

I was just teasing you. I'd chalk the whole situation up to a mistake, and "trust but verify" as the late great Ronald Reagan said. Just keep an eye out to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

[jdoggydogg]

1) Commissioner is acting unprofessionally.

2) Commissioner is not this guy's friend at all.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

1) Commissioner is acting unprofessionally.2) Commissioner is not this guy's friend at all.

3) This guy could have easily seen that Miller was dropped if he went on the website to check.Sure the commish was a little shady by not coming forward that Miller was dropped and perhaps he was even more shady in doing it thorugh his commisioner status if he knew that an e-mail would not go out - although when I made an add/drop for another team as a commish on MFL, an e-mail went out to everyone (not sure what site the OP is using and also not sure why there would only be e-mails sent if add/drops were done one way but not another) - but the ultimate fault lies with the OP for not checking in at he site.

 

[jdoggydogg]

1) Commissioner is acting unprofessionally.2) Commissioner is not this guy's friend at all.

3) This guy could have easily seen that Miller was dropped if he went on the website to check.Sure the commish was a little shady by not coming forward that Miller was dropped and perhaps he was even more shady in doing it thorugh his commisioner status if he knew that an e-mail would not go out - although when I made an add/drop for another team as a commish on MFL, an e-mail went out to everyone (not sure what site the OP is using and also not sure why there would only be e-mails sent if add/drops were done one way but not another) - but the ultimate fault lies with the OP for not checking in at he site.

There are two issues here. Certainly, I agree. Don't rely on another owner to do your research. But if my league's commissioner did this, he'd never retain his position. This is absolutely unacceptable.

 

[Please See Mine]

How did you not check the transaction log in that time and see who was dropped? I feel like you screwed up in that regard.

It does seem like a #### move not to be honest with you in a conversation about a trade. It also suggests to me that he was being dishonest about the drop and knew that he was logged in as commish (what kind of a system is this, anyway?). However, assuming that he did drop Miller in commish-mode inadvertently, then I don't see it as an unethical commish move. It is perhaps unethical as a competitor not to be fully honest in the trade discussion, but the information was available otherwise.

 

[4th&inches]

What site are you using? if it's CBS, that might be the issue. I'm the commish in 2 CBS leagues and have had nothing but issues with the whole waiver process since before the year started.

 

[Deamon]

1) Commissioner is acting unprofessionally.2) Commissioner is not this guy's friend at all.

3) This guy could have easily seen that Miller was dropped if he went on the website to check.Sure the commish was a little shady by not coming forward that Miller was dropped and perhaps he was even more shady in doing it thorugh his commisioner status if he knew that an e-mail would not go out - although when I made an add/drop for another team as a commish on MFL, an e-mail went out to everyone (not sure what site the OP is using and also not sure why there would only be e-mails sent if add/drops were done one way but not another) - but the ultimate fault lies with the OP for not checking in at he site.

I could have logged into the site and checked all the recent transactions, but why would I when every transaction made comes straight to my phone and I look at it carefully each time? I asked him on Saturday for the player and he acted as though he was on his roster, so I had no reason to rush to the site and scroll to see if anyone was dropped that I wanted... email has always done that for me. Maybe I should look at the site hourly to see if anyone was dropped from commish log in, but I have never had it before where the email wasn't sent.

 

[whatadai]

I'm a commissioner and that's a very shady move. Horrible commissioner right there. He basically used his commissioner powers to give his team an advantage.

 

[Ace28]

If a guy can check his emails, why can't he check the website. Overblown imo.