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Zach Thomas signs with Cowboys (1 Viewer)

What is wrong with some of you? It is a terrible move. Zach Thomas is a big name, and that is it. The guy is 100% DONE, and he does not even fit the 3-4 defense. I saw a play from 2 years ago where Thomas had to cover Heath Miller in space, and was torched. Miller just blew past Thomas, got literally 15 yards of separation from Thomas, and scored an 87 yard touch down. That play showed me that Thomas is not athletic enough anymore to play in the NFL.For those of you who say that Thomas can just be a 2 down linebacker, and get off the field on passing downs, you are mistaken. You can't have 2 down linebackers in the NFL anymore, because it is a pass first league. Teams pass a lot on first and second down today, so guys like Zach Thomas just get abused by RBs and Tight Ends. If you can't play all 3 downs in the NFL then you don't belong.Bad move for Dallas. They should have just drafted a guy like Dan Connor, or signed a more athletic younger free agent LB who fits the 3-4 scheme.
I am sure there is no bitter-Eagle fan coming out in these postings...... the same fan base who cried when they let Trotter go becasue he was a leader and the heart of the defense...????If Thomas can provide a great locker room presence and teach the young LBs in Ware , Spencer, Carpenter etc a few things he will be worth the signing .... anything he gives on the field would be a bonus ... and I expect him to play well.
 
Terrible move for the Cowboys. He does not fit a 3-4 scheme at all. He was already undersized in a 4-3, and now him playing in a 3-4 is just ridiculous. Thomas is slow as dirt, on the wrong side of 30, and coming back from a major concussion.I know Jerry Jones is a flashy guy, but I doubt he likes to just burn 3 million bucks. Drew Rosenscum just fleeced the Cowboys.
I don't see why people think this is a good move. Thomas is a fairly slow, small LB who spent most of his pro career in a 4 -3 defense. He was an over acheiver who had a fine career but his best days are way behind him. This is the type of move that Jones likes to make - signing a 'Name' player. With Parcells and Jeff Ireland gone there is no one in the Dallas organization who can say no to Jerry Jones. With the credit people give Parcells for significantly improving the Dallas roster it would follow that his opinion of Thomas's current abililty is the valid one.
 
Much better fit than New England in my opinion. Zach should do well if he can avoid the concussion issues.
what do they have carpenter for?Don't you think they should trade him?Cincy needs LBers, they need a RB to replace Jones....there ya go
Carpenter is a Parcells guy -- big, plugger type with some speed and above-average coverage skills, which isn't the greatest fit in the 3-4 scheme Phillips prefers. He has yet to beat out James for the strong inside role and fell behind Burnett in the nickel/dime packages. I don't think there's any value to be had in trading him, but he's a nice backup/ST player to hold. I'd guess a number of teams would take a hard look at him were he to be released this summer. He's an OSU guy, so Mike Brown and whatever Tobin is in the Bengal scouting department would be interested. He'd fall into a pretty big competition there, though, assuming everyone is healthy and off the suspended lists.
(Relatively) High draft pick though. Do you think he's likely just capable of "nice backup/ST guy" or are you stating that's likley his role while he stays with the Boys-all they'll have him do?The Cowboys have some excellent LB depth IMO, too much actually. I know the "you can never have too much depth" adage but feel like they should trade someone. They didn't necessarily need Zach so he pushes someone out of the lineup giving them even more depth.
 
With the credit people give Parcells for significantly improving the Dallas roster it would follow that his opinion of Thomas's current abililty is the valid one.
I doubt that's true, I don't think it's his ability.I think Parcells cut a salary moreso than a player here. He's always loved the best LBers in the game and I'm sure we can find some nice comments about Thomas over the years via google. Maybe he can't cover as well anymore....I think that's accurate but BP could sure use his leadership and tenacity. I think it was a money thing.
 
Much better fit than New England in my opinion. Zach should do well if he can avoid the concussion issues.
what do they have carpenter for?Don't you think they should trade him?Cincy needs LBers, they need a RB to replace Jones....there ya go
Carpenter is a Parcells guy -- big, plugger type with some speed and above-average coverage skills, which isn't the greatest fit in the 3-4 scheme Phillips prefers.
Can you clarify this here? On the surface it's going from one 3-4 to another but ....You think Phillips leans toward speed like Zimmer did? While Parcells preferred size?Is that it?
 
Much better fit than New England in my opinion. Zach should do well if he can avoid the concussion issues.
what do they have carpenter for?Don't you think they should trade him?Cincy needs LBers, they need a RB to replace Jones....there ya go
Carpenter is a Parcells guy -- big, plugger type with some speed and above-average coverage skills, which isn't the greatest fit in the 3-4 scheme Phillips prefers. He has yet to beat out James for the strong inside role and fell behind Burnett in the nickel/dime packages. I don't think there's any value to be had in trading him, but he's a nice backup/ST player to hold. I'd guess a number of teams would take a hard look at him were he to be released this summer. He's an OSU guy, so Mike Brown and whatever Tobin is in the Bengal scouting department would be interested. He'd fall into a pretty big competition there, though, assuming everyone is healthy and off the suspended lists.
(Relatively) High draft pick though. Do you think he's likely just capable of "nice backup/ST guy" or are you stating that's likley his role while he stays with the Boys-all they'll have him do?The Cowboys have some excellent LB depth IMO, too much actually. I know the "you can never have too much depth" adage but feel like they should trade someone. They didn't necessarily need Zach so he pushes someone out of the lineup giving them even more depth.
Parcells signed Ayodele to a pretty hefty contract two years ago, but he doesn't fit well at the WILB spot for Phillips -- Thomas was almost certainly signed specifically to fill that role. I don't remember reading anything specific about how Phillips felt about Carpenter last year, but I'd agree that it seems unlikely that both would stay if Thomas proves himself healthy in camp.I think Carpenter could start for a lot of 4-3 teams as a very solid SLB -- he's at least as good as guys like Hunter Hillenmeyer or Brady Poppinga or Rob Morris or Rashad Jeanty -- and I'd guess that Parcells might consider him as his SILB if he moves toward the 3-4 as expected in Miami. His career path is also looking a lot like that of Mike Vrabel right now, so New England might also be a solid fit. I guess that contradicts what I said earlier about there not being much market, but I suppose it's hard to know until his name gets floated out there. A guy like Vilma, injury or no, should probably be generating more interest than he apparently is. In any event, as you said, he just doesn't seem to have a role in the current Cowboy defense.
 
Much better fit than New England in my opinion. Zach should do well if he can avoid the concussion issues.
what do they have carpenter for?Don't you think they should trade him?

Cincy needs LBers, they need a RB to replace Jones....there ya go
Carpenter is a Parcells guy -- big, plugger type with some speed and above-average coverage skills, which isn't the greatest fit in the 3-4 scheme Phillips prefers.
Can you clarify this here? On the surface it's going from one 3-4 to another but ....You think Phillips leans toward speed like Zimmer did? While Parcells preferred size?

Is that it?
The short version is that Phillips 3-4 scheme is primarily a one gap scheme, which protects the ILBs a little better than what some would call a true 2-gap, double-bubble 3-4 that Parcells strongly favored. A good size-speed combination is ideal, but smaller guys have been successful as WILB in these schemes before -- Donnie Edwards would be the comp there.I put a detailed thread together on the evolution of the 3-4 front with some discussion and diagrams of the differences over the past couple of weeks. Here's a link if you're interested and haven't seen it yet.

 
Wow...good for Zach and good for the boys. If he's healthy, he's a 150 tackle machine.
Dolphin fan. Zach gets in on a lot of tackles but he usually gets dragged backwards. He also over runs plays more than a good linebacker should. he does pursue extremely well, but I don't think he is very good anymore and not even average when you consider the concussions.Some guys get a a lot of tackles, but are not incredibly impactful and I think Zach is one of those guys. I need a linebacker to make the tackle short of the 1st down and Zach just doesn't get that done.Zach is better on coverage than someone posted prior, he is not a liability as someone posed earlier.I do think he is a good guy who works real hard, but I think he has been a bit overrated because of his tackles and as of now is not worth 3 mil IMO
 
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Jene Bramel said:
Bri said:
Much better fit than New England in my opinion. Zach should do well if he can avoid the concussion issues.
what do they have carpenter for?Don't you think they should trade him?

Cincy needs LBers, they need a RB to replace Jones....there ya go
Carpenter is a Parcells guy -- big, plugger type with some speed and above-average coverage skills, which isn't the greatest fit in the 3-4 scheme Phillips prefers.
Can you clarify this here? On the surface it's going from one 3-4 to another but ....You think Phillips leans toward speed like Zimmer did? While Parcells preferred size?

Is that it?
The short version is that Phillips 3-4 scheme is primarily a one gap scheme, which protects the ILBs a little better than what some would call a true 2-gap, double-bubble 3-4 that Parcells strongly favored. A good size-speed combination is ideal, but smaller guys have been successful as WILB in these schemes before -- Donnie Edwards would be the comp there.I put a detailed thread together on the evolution of the 3-4 front with some discussion and diagrams of the differences over the past couple of weeks. Here's a link if you're interested and haven't seen it yet.
This is a big point because if Thomas can't run free is is fairly worthless.
 
What is wrong with some of you? It is a terrible move. Zach Thomas is a big name, and that is it. The guy is 100% DONE, and he does not even fit the 3-4 defense. I saw a play from 2 years ago where Thomas had to cover Heath Miller in space, and was torched. Miller just blew past Thomas, got literally 15 yards of separation from Thomas, and scored an 87 yard touch down. That play showed me that Thomas is not athletic enough anymore to play in the NFL.For those of you who say that Thomas can just be a 2 down linebacker, and get off the field on passing downs, you are mistaken. You can't have 2 down linebackers in the NFL anymore, because it is a pass first league. Teams pass a lot on first and second down today, so guys like Zach Thomas just get abused by RBs and Tight Ends. If you can't play all 3 downs in the NFL then you don't belong.Bad move for Dallas. They should have just drafted a guy like Dan Connor, or signed a more athletic younger free agent LB who fits the 3-4 scheme.
:rolleyes: all we need now is a vaGiant fan for an NFC East trifectaI fear that ol' Zach is now like a candle; one little blow and he’s out. When a young beast like Portis or Jacobs lowers their hat on him, he'll be Trent Green.
 
Wow...good for Zach and good for the boys. If he's healthy, he's a 150 tackle machine.
Dolphin fan. Zach gets in on a lot of tackles but he usually gets dragged backwards. He also over runs plays more than a good linebacker should. he does pursue extremely well, but I don't think he is very good anymore and not even average when you consider the concussions.Some guys get a a lot of tackles, but are not incredibly impactful and I think Zach is one of those guys. I need a linebacker to make the tackle short of the 1st down and Zach just doesn't get that done.Zach is better on coverage than someone posted prior, he is not a liability as someone posed earlier.I do think he is a good guy who works real hard, but I think he has been a bit overrated because of his tackles and as of now is not worth 3 mil IMO
Considering that he averaged 100 solo tackles I will take it. Dallas's defense is very good at pounding guys but had trouble wrapping up so he should be a good complement for them.Portis and Jacobs hitting guys and the other guy gets hurt? That should be a refreshing change for them. I remember all of the negativity of the Hamlin and L. Davis signing's last year and they turned out pretty well so I will trust Phillips on this one.
 
moondog said:
Terrible move for the Cowboys. He does not fit a 3-4 scheme at all. He was already undersized in a 4-3, and now him playing in a 3-4 is just ridiculous. Thomas is slow as dirt, on the wrong side of 30, and coming back from a major concussion.I know Jerry Jones is a flashy guy, but I doubt he likes to just burn 3 million bucks. Drew Rosenscum just fleeced the Cowboys.
I don't see why people think this is a good move. Thomas is a fairly slow, small LB who spent most of his pro career in a 4 -3 defense. He was an over acheiver who had a fine career but his best days are way behind him. This is the type of move that Jones likes to make - signing a 'Name' player. With Parcells and Jeff Ireland gone there is no one in the Dallas organization who can say no to Jerry Jones. With the credit people give Parcells for significantly improving the Dallas roster it would follow that his opinion of Thomas's current abililty is the valid one.
Its ironic because the two teams who immediately went after Zach Thomas (Pats and Cowboys) both run the 3-4.
 
Quite frankly I think they overpaid for Zach Thomas. $3 million is at least twice as much as anyone should be willing to risk on him. I can't think of a worst position for a player with concussion issues to play than MLB.

Could this turn out to be a good, or even great move for Dallas? Absolutely. But this is clearly a -EV move/gamble and it's not really close, imo.

 
Dexter Manley said:
Quite frankly I think they overpaid for Zach Thomas. $3 million is at least twice as much as anyone should be willing to risk on him. I can't think of a worst position for a player with concussion issues to play than MLB. Could this turn out to be a good, or even great move for Dallas? Absolutely. But this is clearly a -EV move/gamble and it's not really close, imo.
I believe that 1 million of the contract is in incentives so if he doesnt play due to concussion or other problems then the Cowboys only lost 2 million on the guy.
 
moondog said:
Terrible move for the Cowboys. He does not fit a 3-4 scheme at all. He was already undersized in a 4-3, and now him playing in a 3-4 is just ridiculous. Thomas is slow as dirt, on the wrong side of 30, and coming back from a major concussion.I know Jerry Jones is a flashy guy, but I doubt he likes to just burn 3 million bucks. Drew Rosenscum just fleeced the Cowboys.
I don't see why people think this is a good move. Thomas is a fairly slow, small LB who spent most of his pro career in a 4 -3 defense. He was an over acheiver who had a fine career but his best days are way behind him. This is the type of move that Jones likes to make - signing a 'Name' player. With Parcells and Jeff Ireland gone there is no one in the Dallas organization who can say no to Jerry Jones. With the credit people give Parcells for significantly improving the Dallas roster it would follow that his opinion of Thomas's current abililty is the valid one.
Am I missing something or was there allot of teams not going after Z.Thomas. One being Billy B of the Pats who offered him a contract. I know he has no idea what he is doing either and never makes the right personal moves. :thumbup: Yes Zack is old so is Junoir Seau. Look all I am saying is it is obvious people think that he can still play 1 year @3 mil with 1 mil of that being playing time incentives is very low risk and a good move hell great move it works out. Dallas will be fine without the great Parcells there. We are coming this season and the favorites come get some.
 
Tyrion said:
Wow...good for Zach and good for the boys. If he's healthy, he's a 150 tackle machine.
Dolphin fan. Zach gets in on a lot of tackles but he usually gets dragged backwards. He also over runs plays more than a good linebacker should. he does pursue extremely well, but I don't think he is very good anymore and not even average when you consider the concussions.Some guys get a a lot of tackles, but are not incredibly impactful and I think Zach is one of those guys. I need a linebacker to make the tackle short of the 1st down and Zach just doesn't get that done.Zach is better on coverage than someone posted prior, he is not a liability as someone posed earlier.I do think he is a good guy who works real hard, but I think he has been a bit overrated because of his tackles and as of now is not worth 3 mil IMO
Considering that he averaged 100 solo tackles I will take it. Dallas's defense is very good at pounding guys but had trouble wrapping up so he should be a good complement for them.Portis and Jacobs hitting guys and the other guy gets hurt? That should be a refreshing change for them. I remember all of the negativity of the Hamlin and L. Davis signing's last year and they turned out pretty well so I will trust Phillips on this one.
Hey good call on the Hamlin and L.Davis moves. I am so tired of hearing how Dallas will fall apart cause Parcells is gone. W.Phillips knows defense and what players fit his scheme. All these comments just make me laugh. The only bad thing about this move is his possible heath problems not that he can't play anymore or does not fit. Give it a break fellas.
 
Tyrion said:
Wow...good for Zach and good for the boys. If he's healthy, he's a 150 tackle machine.
Dolphin fan. Zach gets in on a lot of tackles but he usually gets dragged backwards. He also over runs plays more than a good linebacker should. he does pursue extremely well, but I don't think he is very good anymore and not even average when you consider the concussions.Some guys get a a lot of tackles, but are not incredibly impactful and I think Zach is one of those guys. I need a linebacker to make the tackle short of the 1st down and Zach just doesn't get that done.Zach is better on coverage than someone posted prior, he is not a liability as someone posed earlier.I do think he is a good guy who works real hard, but I think he has been a bit overrated because of his tackles and as of now is not worth 3 mil IMO
Considering that he averaged 100 solo tackles I will take it. Dallas's defense is very good at pounding guys but had trouble wrapping up so he should be a good complement for them.Portis and Jacobs hitting guys and the other guy gets hurt? That should be a refreshing change for them. I remember all of the negativity of the Hamlin and L. Davis signing's last year and they turned out pretty well so I will trust Phillips on this one.
Those moves were made by Jeff Ireland, who is now the GM in Miami. Ireland knew that Thomas was done and cut him.
 
Tyrion said:
Wow...good for Zach and good for the boys. If he's healthy, he's a 150 tackle machine.
Dolphin fan. Zach gets in on a lot of tackles but he usually gets dragged backwards. He also over runs plays more than a good linebacker should. he does pursue extremely well, but I don't think he is very good anymore and not even average when you consider the concussions.Some guys get a a lot of tackles, but are not incredibly impactful and I think Zach is one of those guys. I need a linebacker to make the tackle short of the 1st down and Zach just doesn't get that done.Zach is better on coverage than someone posted prior, he is not a liability as someone posed earlier.I do think he is a good guy who works real hard, but I think he has been a bit overrated because of his tackles and as of now is not worth 3 mil IMO
Considering that he averaged 100 solo tackles I will take it. Dallas's defense is very good at pounding guys but had trouble wrapping up so he should be a good complement for them.Portis and Jacobs hitting guys and the other guy gets hurt? That should be a refreshing change for them. I remember all of the negativity of the Hamlin and L. Davis signing's last year and they turned out pretty well so I will trust Phillips on this one.
Those moves were made by Jeff Ireland, who is now the GM in Miami. Ireland knew that Thomas was done and cut him.
That's funny. At the time it was considered Jerry making a mistake and now that it pans out, all of the credit is given to Ireland. I think Ireland and Parcells recognized 3 things. Miami stinks. Miami will not be good for at least 3 years and Zach will be retired by then. Zach doesn't fit in Parcell's 3-4.
 
Tyrion said:
Wow...good for Zach and good for the boys. If he's healthy, he's a 150 tackle machine.
Dolphin fan. Zach gets in on a lot of tackles but he usually gets dragged backwards. He also over runs plays more than a good linebacker should. he does pursue extremely well, but I don't think he is very good anymore and not even average when you consider the concussions.Some guys get a a lot of tackles, but are not incredibly impactful and I think Zach is one of those guys. I need a linebacker to make the tackle short of the 1st down and Zach just doesn't get that done.Zach is better on coverage than someone posted prior, he is not a liability as someone posed earlier.I do think he is a good guy who works real hard, but I think he has been a bit overrated because of his tackles and as of now is not worth 3 mil IMO
Considering that he averaged 100 solo tackles I will take it. Dallas's defense is very good at pounding guys but had trouble wrapping up so he should be a good complement for them.Portis and Jacobs hitting guys and the other guy gets hurt? That should be a refreshing change for them. I remember all of the negativity of the Hamlin and L. Davis signing's last year and they turned out pretty well so I will trust Phillips on this one.
Those moves were made by Jeff Ireland, who is now the GM in Miami. Ireland knew that Thomas was done and cut him.
That's funny. At the time it was considered Jerry making a mistake and now that it pans out, all of the credit is given to Ireland. I think Ireland and Parcells recognized 3 things. Miami stinks. Miami will not be good for at least 3 years and Zach will be retired by then. Zach doesn't fit in Parcell's 3-4.
If that's the case then why didn't they cut Jason Taylor? He is exactly 1 year younger than Thomas, and Miami won't be good for another 3 years? Your logic does not make sense. Thomas is a washed up bum who Jerry Jones thinks can still play.We all know Jerry Jones is clueless when it comes to personnel decisions. It won't take long for Jerry to tear down all the great things that Ireland and Parcells built.
 
Tyrion said:
Wow...good for Zach and good for the boys. If he's healthy, he's a 150 tackle machine.
Dolphin fan. Zach gets in on a lot of tackles but he usually gets dragged backwards. He also over runs plays more than a good linebacker should. he does pursue extremely well, but I don't think he is very good anymore and not even average when you consider the concussions.Some guys get a a lot of tackles, but are not incredibly impactful and I think Zach is one of those guys. I need a linebacker to make the tackle short of the 1st down and Zach just doesn't get that done.Zach is better on coverage than someone posted prior, he is not a liability as someone posed earlier.I do think he is a good guy who works real hard, but I think he has been a bit overrated because of his tackles and as of now is not worth 3 mil IMO
Considering that he averaged 100 solo tackles I will take it. Dallas's defense is very good at pounding guys but had trouble wrapping up so he should be a good complement for them.Portis and Jacobs hitting guys and the other guy gets hurt? That should be a refreshing change for them. I remember all of the negativity of the Hamlin and L. Davis signing's last year and they turned out pretty well so I will trust Phillips on this one.
Those moves were made by Jeff Ireland, who is now the GM in Miami. Ireland knew that Thomas was done and cut him.
That's funny. At the time it was considered Jerry making a mistake and now that it pans out, all of the credit is given to Ireland. I think Ireland and Parcells recognized 3 things. Miami stinks. Miami will not be good for at least 3 years and Zach will be retired by then. Zach doesn't fit in Parcell's 3-4.
If that's the case then why didn't they cut Jason Taylor? He is exactly 1 year younger than Thomas, and Miami won't be good for another 3 years? Your logic does not make sense. Thomas is a washed up bum who Jerry Jones thinks can still play.We all know Jerry Jones is clueless when it comes to personnel decisions. It won't take long for Jerry to tear down all the great things that Ireland and Parcells built.
You can read the anger and hatred in your posts. You're a biased Eagles fan. You had your run. It's over. Go back to the bottom of the NFC east where you belong. How is this a bad move? The Cowboys bring in a great tackler and while he might not be the player he once was, the Cowboys didn't have to give anything up to acquire him. He isn't replacing a good young player. He's actually filling in for one of the weakest spots on their D.3 million for 1 year, big freaking deal.
 
They will use Zach, much like Wade used Donnie Edwards in SD. Good signing. I like the leadership he brings, hope he can avoid the concussions in the hard hitting NFC East.
Great player, good man, but with all the concussions he's had, I'm not sure why anyone would sign him..See Steve Young, Aikman, Chris Chandelier, Al Toon..All had concussions problems, yet NONE were linebackers..your job as a LB is to hit people, not good for anyone with previous brain trauma..Zach Thomas is finished, he should have retired.

no way Thomas even suits up for 8 games this season.

worst $3 million Jerry Jones could spend this year..

 
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They will use Zach, much like Wade used Donnie Edwards in SD. Good signing. I like the leadership he brings, hope he can avoid the concussions in the hard hitting NFC East.
Great player, good man, but with all the concussions he's had, I'm not sure why anyone would sign him..See Steve Young, Aikman, Chris Chandelier, Al Toon..All had concussions problems, yet NONE were linebackers..your job as a LB is to hit people, not good for anyone with previous brain trauma..Zach Thomas is finished, he should have retired.

no way Thomas even suits up for 8 games this season.

worst $3 million Jerry Jones could spend this year..
No one is saying he is a sure thing. It's a good signing at a fair cost with only a 1 yr deal. The upside far outweighs the downside. The Cowboys are deep at LB and are hardly pinning their collective hopes on Thomas saving the day. Most think he will be a slight improvement over Ayodele and anytime you improve a postion on team, it's positive. The intangible alone are worth the contract. This is the type of personality this defense is sorry lacking. Too many quiet leaders in Newman and Ware. Thomas brings a new dimension and will hold others accountable.Just my $0.02.

 
They will use Zach, much like Wade used Donnie Edwards in SD. Good signing. I like the leadership he brings, hope he can avoid the concussions in the hard hitting NFC East.
Great player, good man, but with all the concussions he's had, I'm not sure why anyone would sign him..See Steve Young, Aikman, Chris Chandelier, Al Toon..All had concussions problems, yet NONE were linebackers..your job as a LB is to hit people, not good for anyone with previous brain trauma..Zach Thomas is finished, he should have retired.

no way Thomas even suits up for 8 games this season.

worst $3 million Jerry Jones could spend this year..
All right, fair enough. Let it be known that many people think this is a poor move that Dallas made. I'm surprised, I think it's a great move but I'll also admit I'm a long time Zach Thomas fan and could be influenced by that. I am really excited he has come to my favorite team, could possibly be my favorite defensive player, at least in my top 5.We'll have to see how this one works out.

 

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