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US Men's National Team (12 Viewers)

I should elaborate a bit on my response to Sammy, because we also agree on a lot of things.

First, I agree that spamming in crosses is a sucker's tactic.  I thought that even before the analytics proved how inefficient it is.  Too much has to go right, particularly on the typical cross from the end line (early crosses, like the typed De Bruyne is good at, I actually think are underrated, but that's another post).  And I agree that the US team ends up settling too often for crosses, particularly from the full backs.  Which makes everyone post about how Jedi is terrible at crosses.  I think he's probably about average at crossing for a full back, but it's just a low percentage play.

But I just don't think that what Gregg has said shows that he wants the team settling for those crosses.  I don't think he does.  I'm just not sure we have the players to really exploit the half spaces.  We have good players in those spaces, but none of them are really what I'd call plus passers.  Gio seems to have the tool in his bag, but he hasn't shown consistency with it yet.  Pulisic, Aaronson, Swag, Musah.  None of those guys really have that passing gene that unlocks the defense.  We might not have that guy in the pool.  Or maybe its Djordge or someone.  And it's not really a strength of any striker except maybe Jozy.

 
Worm said:
After watching some of this match, I'm not sure we want Pulisic in this weird #9 role.
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he's been pretty bad. not even decent... just poor.

but I think it's his touch more than positioning- lots of clangers on first touch or trying to hit a first time ball after making some nice little runs. without that first touch, he's looked REALLY uncomfortable with his back to goal, and uncertain the couple times he's faced it- should've opened up a shot for himself instead of trying to pinpoint feed Kante the one time he was in the box going at goal.

 
Swag has been decent- not much opportunity with Chelsea running all over them- but he's done well (outside of letting CHO get behind him once on a run).

 
Pulisic with two subtle contributions in the second half.  A good press and tip of the ball away.  And a strong contest on the header on a cross in the box that lead directly to Jones's second.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Pulisic with two subtle contributions in the second half.  A good press and tip of the ball away.  And a strong contest on the header on a cross in the box that lead directly to Jones's second.
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credit to him- he kept working hard and getting himself in good spots like those. 

touch got marginally better, but not up to his level. and he still seemed uncertain about when to attack and when to pass. 

shame- this was a game where he could have grabbed a hold of things with better play. as it is, with Ziyech and CHO playing really well and Lukaku, Mount and Werner coming back, he may be back on the outside looking in again. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I should elaborate a bit on my response to Sammy, because we also agree on a lot of things.

First, I agree that spamming in crosses is a sucker's tactic.  I thought that even before the analytics proved how inefficient it is.  Too much has to go right, particularly on the typical cross from the end line (early crosses, like the typed De Bruyne is good at, I actually think are underrated, but that's another post).  And I agree that the US team ends up settling too often for crosses, particularly from the full backs.  Which makes everyone post about how Jedi is terrible at crosses.  I think he's probably about average at crossing for a full back, but it's just a low percentage play.

But I just don't think that what Gregg has said shows that he wants the team settling for those crosses.  I don't think he does.  I'm just not sure we have the players to really exploit the half spaces.  We have good players in those spaces, but none of them are really what I'd call plus passers.  Gio seems to have the tool in his bag, but he hasn't shown consistency with it yet.  Pulisic, Aaronson, Swag, Musah.  None of those guys really have that passing gene that unlocks the defense.  We might not have that guy in the pool.  Or maybe its Djordge or someone.  And it's not really a strength of any striker except maybe Jozy.
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I do think inherent to a single 6 distributing is a natural inclination to go wide.  Both the other MFs are inherently wider and the two OB are even wide.  Once the wall moves that way we simply don't switch the field ever.  We get tunnelled down one side and either cross or go all the way back to recycle play.   I can't find the heat maps, but for a lot of matches we simply are absent from the area from roughly the top of the 18 to 25 yards out. 

That initial 6 pass is 100% on Gregg for setting us up like we are.  To your point, it's not clear why the "outs" seem to be superhuman attacking (Weah Jamaica goal), cross, or back recycle.  I'll also say that in general our CBs aren't the most technical once that recycle happens which isn't necessarily on Gregg, but he does have choices there (I mean it was a choice to play 3 technical Bundesliga defenders a total of 90 minutes last window).  This is also one of Musah's weaknesses (and Swag's strengths).  Musah's fantastic at advancing the ball, but doesn't really look to exploit the half space for others whereas that's all Swag does.  One of Swag's (and CP's) biggest strengths is that his body positioning is almost always open (whereas both Llegett and Acosta are generally closed...it's one of the reasons why they are more prone to go back).  This is also why I'm more than a little dubious of CP as a 9, the body positioning is totally different.  

 
Re US wing play vs half spaces:

Growing up in Florida, we were always taught to send it to the wing, let the wing take it down and maneuver into the box for the cross. That was 1982ish to 1989 until my family moved.

Fast forward to today and the club teams I coach, when facing a team from Florida, I always warn our teams to watch out for "Florida Ball" - just as described above.  It's crazy.  Just ride them down the line and don't allow the cross.

Every club north of Tampa does this with the exception of Florida Tallahassee elite who just in the last 2 years started implementing half spaces. I really need to go dig and see what the change was, whether a change at the top or just a certain age group coach.  GGG must've grown up in Florida.

 
SpurrierisisGod said:
Re US wing play vs half spaces:

Growing up in Florida, we were always taught to send it to the wing, let the wing take it down and maneuver into the box for the cross. That was 1982ish to 1989 until my family moved.

Fast forward to today and the club teams I coach, when facing a team from Florida, I always warn our teams to watch out for "Florida Ball" - just as described above.  It's crazy.  Just ride them down the line and don't allow the cross.

Every club north of Tampa does this with the exception of Florida Tallahassee elite who just in the last 2 years started implementing half spaces. I really need to go dig and see what the change was, whether a change at the top or just a certain age group coach.  GGG must've grown up in Florida.
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All this talk about half-spaces recently made me look at some things to make sure I was understanding all the terminology and tactics involved.  I found this video explaining these terms/tactics that may be helpful for some that may not have as good an understanding as others.

 
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El Floppo said:
credit to him- he kept working hard and getting himself in good spots like those. 

touch got marginally better, but not up to his level. and he still seemed uncertain about when to attack and when to pass. 

shame- this was a game where he could have grabbed a hold of things with better play. as it is, with Ziyech and CHO playing really well and Lukaku, Mount and Werner coming back, he may be back on the outside looking in again. 
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The whole thing is a bit surreal when you take a step back.  

We are all a little disappointed that an American who is constantly hurt is not a regular starter on pretty much the best team in the world right now. 
 

Imagine explaining this feeling to yourself ten years ago. 

 
Brian Sciaretta

@BrianSciaretta

It's official.. as was rumored, Bob Bradley is the next head coach and technical director of Toronto FC. Solid hire for TFC who get a coach who is used to turning teams around or building teams from scratch. I'd expect TFC to turnaround quickly

=========

So this means Bob will have coached his son at the very beginning of his career as a 17 year old and will now coach him at the end as a 34 year old.  That is pretty cool.

 
Rumors are that Columbus will host a second match this cycle, likely during the next window to lower some travel time to Canada.  The rumor is they will host the ELS game.

 
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Was thinking about the convo yesterday re: wings and halfspaces and the fact that City and Liverpool (and probably others I don't see as much) do use crosses from wide/the endline and realized that what makes all of it work isn't the location -- it's the speed of buildup.  When TAA or Robertson are crossing from deep or wide they've gotten there quickly and the defense is unsettled.  Liverpool scores a ton of goals like this -- just whipping balls in behind the retreating defense for far post tap ins or pull backs at the top of the box.  It's the defense trailing the play that makes it work.

That seems to me to be limited by the quality of players, but I'm open to there are things a coach can do to help make that happen and maybe we're not doing all we could be.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
That seems to me to be limited by the quality of players, but I'm open to there are things a coach can do to help make that happen and maybe we're not doing all we could be.
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There is also a big difference a coach can make when at club level practicing every day with the players vs a National Team coach who has to get his points across in an extremely limited fashion.

I really think the skill sets of a club coach and a national team coach are much different in nature.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
There is also a big difference a coach can make when at club level practicing every day with the players vs a National Team coach who has to get his points across in an extremely limited fashion.
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Great point NR -- especially when you hear the stories about how religiously and repeatedly Pep and Klopp drill these things, maybe it's just not possible to fully replicate in a limited time frame. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
Rumors are that Columbus will host a second match this cycle, likely during the next window to lower some travel time to Canada.  The rumor is they will host the ELS game.
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Goff is reporting:

It’s going to be …

Jan 27: El Salvador in Columbus
Jan 30: Canada in Hamilton, Ontario
Feb 2; Honduras in St Paul
 

That’s lining up to be a chilly trio of games. 🥶

 
re: the crossing thing... my club coach was Steve Negoesco, NCAA legend at USF with multiple national titles. he would have us do the same drill every practice...sometimes that's all we'd do. 3 players. ball starts at MF, passed to a forward (9) checking back who would then hit it out wide or back to the passer, to a winger who would take the ball to the endline and put it back- usually on the ground. guy who hit the first pass and the 9 would both make runs into the box (near post and trailing) with two defenders centrally and the GK. over and over and over. We scored so many goals that way. It was about the understanding of the timing and spacing of the runs- and of course the guy hitting the cross knowing where to find us (and that would always change because of the defenders). but this was the 80s, and marking was more man-to-man so you knew with the right run you could get a step to the space. and crossed balls in the air were less likely to find their desired target without interception.

 
berndog said:
Goff is reporting:

It’s going to be …

Jan 27: El Salvador in Columbus
Jan 30: Canada in Hamilton, Ontario
Feb 2; Honduras in St Paul
 

That’s lining up to be a chilly trio of games. 🥶
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Is St. Paul outside?  That seems almost impossible in February.  But I've been begging for this kind of thing since the first Dos a Cero -- make these tropical teams that put start times in the heat and humidity of the day come north and play in frigid conditions.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Brian Sciaretta

@BrianSciaretta

It's official.. as was rumored, Bob Bradley is the next head coach and technical director of Toronto FC. Solid hire for TFC who get a coach who is used to turning teams around or building teams from scratch. I'd expect TFC to turnaround quickly

=========

So this means Bob will have coached his son at the very beginning of his career as a 17 year old and will now coach him at the end as a 34 year old.  That is pretty cool.
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hadn't thought about caillou reunion. that's cool for them.

sounds like he won't have Jozy around though. curious where he ends up and wonder if he has a role for the US in the next year... from what little I saw of him at the end of TFC's kaput season, he still had it and played like how I want our 9 to play- dominating space, winning balls when showing or as a target, making smart decisions on the ball with the pass, dribble or shot, getting team-mates involved short or wide, opening space and shots up for himself on the ball, getting to the space in the box to attack to the ball off of it,

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Is St. Paul outside?  That seems almost impossible in February.  But I've been begging for this kind of thing since the first Dos a Cero -- make these tropical teams that put start times in the heat and humidity of the day come north and play in frigid conditions.
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I love the idea of cold weather games to freeze the Central American teams but in this specific case I hope it works out. 

We are clearly a better team than both Honduras and ELS.  I would hate for a snow/ice storm to make the field so bad that it levels the quality difference between the two teams.

The old cliché is that the worse the field conditions, the more it helps the lower quality team in a game.

We also have plenty of California and Texas born and raised players who are unlikely to thrive in these conditions either.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Great point NR -- especially when you hear the stories about how religiously and repeatedly Pep and Klopp drill these things, maybe it's just not possible to fully replicate in a limited time frame. 
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The difference can be monumental.

A club coach will have more time with his players in a single preseason, than a National Team coach will have in a full 4 year cycle.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I love the idea of cold weather games to freeze the Central American teams but in this specific case I hope it works out. 

We are clearly a better team than both Honduras and ELS.  I would hate for a snow/ice storm to make the field so bad that it levels the quality difference between the two teams.

The old cliché is that the worse the field conditions, the more it helps the lower quality team in a game.

We also have plenty of California and Texas born and raised players who are unlikely to thrive in these conditions either.
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Had the exact same thoughts and concerns. Let's not overthink or gimmick being better than these guys. And tbh, my experience with warm weather guys, even weather in the 40s is brutal for them.

 
btw- I thought Mex looked fine up in Canada- not hugely out of sorts. they just got outplayed, IMO- in similar ways they did in Azteca... I actually thought they played Canada better the second time around.

 
El Floppo said:
Had the exact same thoughts and concerns. Let's not overthink or gimmick being better than these guys. And tbh, my experience with warm weather guys, even weather in the 40s is brutal for them.
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of course there is also under thinking it too.  My neck is sore from shaking my head so many times after reading a ton of people on twitter wanting one of these games in DC.

I know much of the fan base is new, but it would be insane trying to get a pro US crowd for ELS in DC.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
of course there is also under thinking it too.  My neck is sore from shaking it so many times after reading a ton of people on twitter wanting one of these games in DC.

I know much of the fan base is new, but it would be insane trying to get a pro US crowd for ELS in DC.
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yeah. NE cities are out. Florida- out. CA- out. Texas...probably out too.

Columbus, Nashville, St Paul, SLC... all good honkey homey spots.

 
Disagree about Mexico -- they couldn't string anything together until they were down 2-0.  And it was a rock fight of a game generally IMO.

ETA:  37 fouls - woof.  But it was Canada 1.13 - 1.57 Mexico in terms of xG.  So maybe your taek is the right one.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Disagree about Mexico -- they couldn't string anything together until they were down 2-0.  And it was a rock fight of a game generally IMO.

ETA:  37 fouls - woof.  But it was Canada 1.13 - 1.57 Mexico in terms of xG.  So maybe you're taek is the right one.
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and fwiw, I'm not saying Mex was the better team or played great. my point was- to my eyes, they didn't seem affected by the cold in playing poorly, having poor touches or looking out of sorts.

 
El Floppo said:
and fwiw, I'm not saying Mex was the better team or played great. my point was- to my eyes, they didn't seem affected by the cold in playing poorly, having poor touches or looking out of sorts.
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I largely agree.  I will say that it didn't seem like Chucky did a whole lot after he got slammed to the frozen ground by that one huge Canadian dude.

 
Fwiw, CPs post match comments, re make-believe 9

------------------------

On how he adjusted to his new position, Pulisic added: 'As far as the false nine role, I think I can play in a lot of the attacking positions within this team.

'I was in a slightly different role. I am not on the ball as much as I usually am or able to use some of my strengths but I think it is a position that I can play.

'I can create a lot of space for my team-mates and I am happy to play there as well.

 
It’s not like we are Norway, I would guess most of our players are from warm weather climates as well. I don’t like it and hope the weather isn’t a factor 

 
It really seems completely unnecessary to risk a frigid snow game against a team we enjoy a distinct talent advantage over.

I get we want to ensure a pro usa crowd, but there had to be safer options. 

 
TLEF316 said:
I get we want to ensure a pro usa crowd, but there had to be safer options. 
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FWIW, I think this is what we need to strive for when establishing a 'go-to' home field for WC qualifying. A place where the crowd is overwhelmingly pro-US, and Columbus checks that box. I think maybe we're trying too hard to find our own Azteca when we should just settle for a place where our guys don't feel like they're the visiting team. 

 
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