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US Men's National Team (17 Viewers)
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
12 months ago I never would have guessed Weston could have developed this much. He is such a complete player now. His touch has improved, his vision has improved, his passing has improved and his field coverage is second to none.
He still has room to get better of course but even if this is the peak, we have a long term player here.
He still has room to get better of course but even if this is the peak, we have a long term player here.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Just finished.
Quick thoughts before bed...
Musah needs a flotilla of hookers and blow sent his way, stat. Him in there with SwagAdams, CP and Gio floating around them, with Dest mixing in....great googly moogly. Seriously fun squad. But I really like what I've seen of Musah. Want.
Miazga wasn't good tonight. Shape and timing seemed poor, even moreso than his first touch. Ream consistent and decent as the provider. Really wish we'd seen more of Richards. Looking forward to seeing how the MLS boys do...I know theyre good players, but can they adapt to this level and be consistent and disciplined.
adams
so good. And that ball he hit to swag for gioch's diving header...
Ledezma concerned me at first- too weak and small on the ball...easily pushed off and ineffectual in scrappy physical game. But in space and time, those crosses were what I was expecting from Gio both games (that didn't come)...richie was banging them in every time, including his corners.
Dammit- the US looked like a team another level way above their competition in the first half....for the first time ever for me. Even when they are, they never really play that way. Tonight was fun. Second half...panama obviously got chewed out at the half and responded, first with some nasty concacaffy tackles, but then with some decent sustained play at speed. The US looked decidedly uninterested and back to olden days levels..until the subs got them back up to the speed of the game.
Quick thoughts before bed...
Musah needs a flotilla of hookers and blow sent his way, stat. Him in there with SwagAdams, CP and Gio floating around them, with Dest mixing in....great googly moogly. Seriously fun squad. But I really like what I've seen of Musah. Want.
Miazga wasn't good tonight. Shape and timing seemed poor, even moreso than his first touch. Ream consistent and decent as the provider. Really wish we'd seen more of Richards. Looking forward to seeing how the MLS boys do...I know theyre good players, but can they adapt to this level and be consistent and disciplined.
adams
so good. And that ball he hit to swag for gioch's diving header... Ledezma concerned me at first- too weak and small on the ball...easily pushed off and ineffectual in scrappy physical game. But in space and time, those crosses were what I was expecting from Gio both games (that didn't come)...richie was banging them in every time, including his corners.
Dammit- the US looked like a team another level way above their competition in the first half....for the first time ever for me. Even when they are, they never really play that way. Tonight was fun. Second half...panama obviously got chewed out at the half and responded, first with some nasty concacaffy tackles, but then with some decent sustained play at speed. The US looked decidedly uninterested and back to olden days levels..until the subs got them back up to the speed of the game.
encaitar
Footballguy
Just finished watching on DVR(damn work). Number 1 thing I've seen... we need to put the full court press on Musah. That midfield of Adam/McKennie/Musah is quality. Give them all 2 years to develop and they can hang with most midfields in the world. Really excited by those 3.
If we land Musah, we have 8 spots written in ink. Pulisic, Reyna, Musah, Adams, McKennie, Brooks, Dest, and Steffen make for a really incredibly strong base for the squad, easily the best in CONCACAF. We need one of Robinson/Cannon to step up and we need another CB to make a push to the next level, whether it's Long, Miazga, Richards, or McKenzie.
Finally, striker. I thought both Soto and Gioachhini had good games and threw their names into the hat. Hope one of the young strikers can go out and grab that spot tight.
If we land Musah, we have 8 spots written in ink. Pulisic, Reyna, Musah, Adams, McKennie, Brooks, Dest, and Steffen make for a really incredibly strong base for the squad, easily the best in CONCACAF. We need one of Robinson/Cannon to step up and we need another CB to make a push to the next level, whether it's Long, Miazga, Richards, or McKenzie.
Finally, striker. I thought both Soto and Gioachhini had good games and threw their names into the hat. Hope one of the young strikers can go out and grab that spot tight.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Last I saw, WCQ was starting in March.NewlyRetired said:
It wouldn't surprise me if it was pushed back but, frankly there wouldn't be a lot of time before the actual WC if WCQ was pushed back to Fall 2021
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I wonder if we'll see WC Qatar pushed back 1 more year to 2023 as a result of this pandemic.
JaxBill
Footballguy
No doubt that's a possibility. The puzzling thing to me is WCQ were canceled all over the world but UEFA Euro 2021 qualifiers took place.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
concacaf WCQing does start in March but not for the US. The US has been seeded directly in to the Ocho (the 8 team final group, which replaces the old hex). The games that will hopefully start in March are for the non seeded countries to fill up the remaining spots in the Ocho.
The first US cap tying game will be next summer in the Nations League semi final and Ocho qualifying is hoping to start next fall.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Our biggest carrot to start this dance remains our biggest carrot now. The US not only offers Musah a much faster path to the National Team than England can, we can offer him a path to being a National Team starter significantly faster (by years IMO) than England can.
I know it will be probably be months at least, before we know. Hopefully he accepts the March call up from GGG and we go from there.
He is not a dribbler like Dest or Pulisic, but that ability to chew up ground while driving the ball forward is such a strong talent to have and it will open things up so much when Pulisic is on the field.
I know it will be probably be months at least, before we know. Hopefully he accepts the March call up from GGG and we go from there.
He is not a dribbler like Dest or Pulisic, but that ability to chew up ground while driving the ball forward is such a strong talent to have and it will open things up so much when Pulisic is on the field.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Gregg Berhalter on Yunus Musah “I was really happy with Yunus’ performance and really happy with him in camp. The guys really took to him well.. It seems like he sees us a pathway to continue to develop and play with a good young group."
gianmarco
Footballguy
So, I'm a bit torn on Chris Richards. Overall, this camp and 2 matches are confusing to me with the playing time he received.
-- Miazga got the start twice. He didn't really do anything, IMO, to deserve that 2nd start (other than being against a CONCACAF team). Does that mean he's currently rated higher?
-- Richards is on the best club team in the world in Bayern Munich. That HAS to count for something. And not only that, but played in week 1 for them and started week 3 for them. Got hurt, and has since returned week 7 (just before the break) and was on the bench against Dortmund. He has played both CB and RB.
-- In the game against Hertha Berlin, his first start, he had an assist, led directly to their first goal, and had a 2nd assist wiped away due to Mueller being barely offside.
-- Watching his touches in that game, I don't come away overly impressed. He looks a little slowish to me, his touches and passing aren't that crisp, and he looks hesitant in his decision making. Of course, that could all be due to nerves and making his first start for a team like Bayern. That said, he had some moments of brilliance in passing with the above goals I mentioned. Not that he would be doing a lot of that at CB as opposed to his position at RB that game, but still.
I trust Bayern's scouting of him much more than Berhalter's. I wish I knew why he didn't play or feature more with this squad when he was willing to give a lot of minutes to the other young studs.
Given Berhalter's decision making overall, it's frustrating.
-- Miazga got the start twice. He didn't really do anything, IMO, to deserve that 2nd start (other than being against a CONCACAF team). Does that mean he's currently rated higher?
-- Richards is on the best club team in the world in Bayern Munich. That HAS to count for something. And not only that, but played in week 1 for them and started week 3 for them. Got hurt, and has since returned week 7 (just before the break) and was on the bench against Dortmund. He has played both CB and RB.
-- In the game against Hertha Berlin, his first start, he had an assist, led directly to their first goal, and had a 2nd assist wiped away due to Mueller being barely offside.
-- Watching his touches in that game, I don't come away overly impressed. He looks a little slowish to me, his touches and passing aren't that crisp, and he looks hesitant in his decision making. Of course, that could all be due to nerves and making his first start for a team like Bayern. That said, he had some moments of brilliance in passing with the above goals I mentioned. Not that he would be doing a lot of that at CB as opposed to his position at RB that game, but still.
I trust Bayern's scouting of him much more than Berhalter's. I wish I knew why he didn't play or feature more with this squad when he was willing to give a lot of minutes to the other young studs.
Given Berhalter's decision making overall, it's frustrating.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I am so torn on our wing backs.
I like Cannon more than Robinson, but I like Dest on the right more than on the left.
I like Cannon more than Robinson, but I like Dest on the right more than on the left.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I think as Dest plays more on the left for Barcelona, his comfort there will improve. I thought he still looked great.
I agree on Cannon vs. Robinson based on those 2 matches. Cannon looked really, really good to me. Just as good offensively moving forward as Robinson but much better defensively. The flexibility afforded with Dest being able to play either side, though, is fantastic. And I think overall, all 3 guys will be in the mix.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I can't wait to see what happens with Brenden Aaronson and McKenzie. I think those are the next 2 guys that take the next step that we get excited about.
As for striker, I know it's not decided yet, but we have so many potentials that I find it hard to imagine that one doesn't earn it outright in the next year.
Morris, Sargent, Zardes offer experienced strikers that we already know.
I liked what I saw out of Soto, Gioacchini, and Llanez. And even Weah still has plenty of time to develop.
And then there's still Konrad, although I doubt Barcelona turn him into a true #9.
Considering we only need one of those guys to make the jump, I'm not worried about finding an eventual quality starter. And given how capable Pulisic is as a goal scorer, even if it ends up being our weakest position, I still think we'll be fine.
As for striker, I know it's not decided yet, but we have so many potentials that I find it hard to imagine that one doesn't earn it outright in the next year.
Morris, Sargent, Zardes offer experienced strikers that we already know.
I liked what I saw out of Soto, Gioacchini, and Llanez. And even Weah still has plenty of time to develop.
And then there's still Konrad, although I doubt Barcelona turn him into a true #9.
Considering we only need one of those guys to make the jump, I'm not worried about finding an eventual quality starter. And given how capable Pulisic is as a goal scorer, even if it ends up being our weakest position, I still think we'll be fine.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
John OBrien was the solution at the 10 for a long time...as far as we knew.
We need everybody to make it.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
One thing I just kind of realized is that if Musah does choose the US and we stick with the what looks to be a strong midfield of Adams, Musah and Weston, that Gio will not play a 10 role.
That means he is certain to play on one of the wings, which means our wing depth gets significantly stronger with Morris not projected to be a wing starter if both Gio and Pulisic are on the wings.
That means he is certain to play on one of the wings, which means our wing depth gets significantly stronger with Morris not projected to be a wing starter if both Gio and Pulisic are on the wings.
gianmarco
Footballguy
That's what I was thinking as well. Would we end up with more of a 4-2-3-1? Weston/Adams playing a deeper/defensive MF position but able to push up with Pulisic (L)/Gio (C)/Musah (R) and then someone up top?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I love Aaronson but McKenzie appears to have a clearer path to the national team if his development curve continues due to the positions they play. Aaronson is going to give better depth in the midfield, but McKenzie seems to have a path as a starter since our CB's are significantly more iffy than our midfielders.
If Musah does not choose US and GGG keeps Gio on wing, then an opportunity will arise for Aaronson.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I like that a lot. I think Musah would function well in that role and I have long wanted both Adams and Weston next to each other as holding midfielders.
But GGG seems to really like having only one holding midfielder, with two in front of him, which is the triangle they played in both of these games, with Adams sitting behind Musah and Weston.
With Weston's improved game, GGG's formation probably gets more out of him than playing him next to Adams....
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Aside from the formation working, it actually is where those guys are currently playing for their clubs as well, thus not needing them to alter their styles or adapting to new positions. I agree that it wouldn't fully utilize Weston if they kept pretty strict positioning, but we know that's not the case as he could easily move up.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Oh, ok, here's another idea, although it would never happen.
Imagine if they decided to roll out with a 3-5-2 formation. Then we don't even need a true striker up top. And again, these guys play naturally play in those spots already.
Pulisic (F) Reyna (F)
McKennie (MF) Musah (MF)
Dest (LWB) Adams (MF) Cannon (RWB)
McKenzie (LB) Brooks (CB) Richards (RB)
Imagine if they decided to roll out with a 3-5-2 formation. Then we don't even need a true striker up top. And again, these guys play naturally play in those spots already.
Pulisic (F) Reyna (F)
McKennie (MF) Musah (MF)
Dest (LWB) Adams (MF) Cannon (RWB)
McKenzie (LB) Brooks (CB) Richards (RB)
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Top 100 Americans in the pool
Near the top, surprised to see Robinson that low. But, seeing Cannon that high goes along with what we saw, I think.
Won't talk about Yedlin and Jozy that high at this point. Just don't belong.
That 20-30 range is going to be fun to watch develop.
A couple other good reads:
Race for the #9
"A week that I'll never forget"
Near the top, surprised to see Robinson that low. But, seeing Cannon that high goes along with what we saw, I think.
Won't talk about Yedlin and Jozy that high at this point. Just don't belong.
That 20-30 range is going to be fun to watch develop.
A couple other good reads:
Race for the #9
"A week that I'll never forget"
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
anyone else get the feeling that Weah really did not show enough to be called again until he figures out his club situation?
His development curve has flat lined for too long now due to injury and lack of game time once healthy.
His development curve has flat lined for too long now due to injury and lack of game time once healthy.
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
I was thinking about a 3-man backline yesterday. My big hesitation, is CB is our weakest position... so why would we want 3 of them in the starting lineup???
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Problem solved
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/708312-us-mens-national-team/?do=findComment&comment=23077212
not really but fun to tinker
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
Adams actually made me think about it because he dropped between the two CB's a lot yesterday. Not in a bad way, but the CBs spent a lot of time wide while the FB's pushed up and Adams dropped into the backline to stiffen the middle.Problem solved
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/708312-us-mens-national-team/?do=findComment&comment=23077212
not really but fun to tinker
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
good quick interview clip right after game with a funny ending from Cannon (he speaks the truth though)
https://twitter.com/FCYahoo/status/1328724671445889027?s=20
https://twitter.com/FCYahoo/status/1328724671445889027?s=20
El Floppo
Footballguy
Was thinking about Weah too. While I agree he showed next to nothing in his minutes, not sure it's entirely fair to write him off yet. Both games had changed at his entry, and I thought he spent most of his minutes chasing it on both sides of the ball rather than involved in flowing team soccer. I remember one nice long diagonal run into space vs Wales, but otherwise not else much.
He looked bigger and more explosive than the wiry version of him I remember, and maybe he showed something worthwhile in training for GGG to give him another shot. That said...llanez got the start and looked decent ahead of him, so maybe he didn't show in training either.
This was purely in the offensive side of things, iirc, more than stiffening the back line imo. I think it was a way to get him initiating the attack more immediately and facing the field rather than needing to always receive the ball facing his own goal, turn and then play it.
I liked it...also allowed the fbs to push wider and forward.
He and Swag have elevated their already high games from this showing...moving at that higher speed of play and thought we've been talking about. Also pretty tidy with the ball (prerequisite for faster play...guys like miazga needing the extra split second on their first or second touch, or just slightly misplaying the pass, brings the game speed back down to typical US levels.
TripItUp
Footballguy
what are our other striker options?
I am of the opinion that Sargent is not good at soccer...at least at this level of soccer. I'd rather go for Weah's upside than whatever Sargent is...I realize I'm in the vast minority on this one.
Zardes/Jozy/Pulisic...could use a few more.
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TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, at some point, Weah is going to have to play and produce. The injuries he's had obviously came at an awful time in his development, as he had the opportunity to establish himself at a smaller club after leaving PSG. Obviously that didn't happen, so he's gonna have to fight from square 1.
Obviously he's still young and his pedigree will ensure he gets multiple opportunities. But he's running out of time if he wants to become a mainstay on the US team.
Obviously he's still young and his pedigree will ensure he gets multiple opportunities. But he's running out of time if he wants to become a mainstay on the US team.
TripItUp
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Ranked in no particular order, these are probably the choices today (6 months from now the list could change by 50%)
Jozy, Sargent, Zardes, Dike, Akinola, Gioachini, Soto, Morris, Weah, Bacon, Novakovic, Ebobisse, and Pepi
Notes:
* Jozy is clearly coming to the end, especially with his healthy issues. Should he miraculously get and stay healthy, he would be a good option
* Zardes is the butt of all our jokes but the guy scores and runs his ### off in the channels (which is worth more than it sounds when we have the talent we finally have around him)
* Weah and Morris would be projects since both are not active strikers at club level. Weah is not even active at club level at any position so he has the most work to do of anyone
* Sargent has had a solid year, an every game starter for a mid table Bundesliga team is no easy task.
* We have talked about Dike multiple times this week. He is one to keep an eye on.
* I know GGG wanted to go young, but when he was forced(in his eyes) to start LLetget out of position at striker instead of an inform Bacon, I have to think Bacon's window may have closed.
* Pepi is not yet ready IMO but listing him because he is well thought of in our youth ranks
El Floppo
Footballguy
I've seen next to nothing from Weah...literally. he isn't playing. Sarge is..and shows a ton of usefulness, especially as a guy who is fantastic with his work rate and understanding of space and team shape. We all talked about how lost that explosive group of players looked in attack vs Wales with Lletget in there. That's a place Sargent would thrive, and make the rest of players and attack better. He does it weekly for club, with much worse players around him.
You left off the punchline.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I just don't see it with Sargent, Bundesliga run is his only argument. Just not athletic enough to make it at this level IMHO. Previously terrible at international level.
Weah, on the other hand, has shown flashes of tier 1 ability, give me that guy over the low ceiling Sargent...for now. Agree that Weah needs to actually play soccer to earn a spot.
Again, I realize I'm probably the only person in this forum that believes Weah > Sargent so I understand it is an unpopular opinion.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
That is an awfully dismissive statement to make of a fairly major accomplishment for any US player.
Sargent has been better than Weah at every single level in the US system and has been better at the club level. This is almost indisputable.
I am fine if you want to project that Weah has a bigger upside, but don't belittle a players accomplishments just to pump up "your guy"
encaitar
Footballguy
I think that many would agree that with his athleticism, Weah has a much higher ceiling than Sarge, but at this current point in time, Sargent's floor is several levels above Weah's and Weah hasn't shown any hope of reaching that ceiling yet. Given their current trend I fully expect Sargent to have a better career and be a better player over his career than Weah.
Now, I hope Weah proves me wrong, I really do, but until he actually starts playing better than Sarge at club level he doesn't deserve to play on the USMNT over him based on potential IMO.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Yes.
It's one thing to say Weah has more upside. We've all said that. For years already. It's another thing to say Sargent is "not good at soccer" or has been a "terrible international". I thought we were past this homerism mindless and baseless false hot take.
I see players like Weah, Sarge, Adams, Swag who all protected to be good to better than good based on their youth run. The latter three have all progressed from well to amazing. weah...stuck in neutral, or who knows really...hes not playing.There have been a lot of kids with great upside who reach their peak at u17 or 20 and flame out. I still have hopes for Weah, but he needs to crack a lineup first....like Sarge.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah....I'm not saying Sargent is gonna be a star or anything....but saying he's been a terrible international is just disingenuous.
Even if we discount his youth national team career (which was absolutely prolific in terms of goal scoring. 30 in 48 games for the U17's, 4 goals in 8 games with the U20's/U23's) he has scored 5 in 12 games with the senior team, all before turning 20.
Granted....3 of those goals were against a horrible Cuba team (over the course of 2 blowout games in last year's Nation's league) and the other 2 were in friendlies (against decent south American squads) but they count just the same.
And at the end of the day, he's going to get opportunities to do it against good competition in games that count. We wont have to speculate. He'll either score....or he wont.
I would agree that I dont think he's going to be a very good goal scorer at the senior level. And in most cases, that's kinda what you need your center forward to do. But he clearly brings other skills (like his hold up play) and tactical know-how to the table that will open things up for others. So until the national team has a #9 (Or Lleget) that can do better (and stay healthy), Josh is likely to get first crack at that spot after Zardes.
Even if we discount his youth national team career (which was absolutely prolific in terms of goal scoring. 30 in 48 games for the U17's, 4 goals in 8 games with the U20's/U23's) he has scored 5 in 12 games with the senior team, all before turning 20.
Granted....3 of those goals were against a horrible Cuba team (over the course of 2 blowout games in last year's Nation's league) and the other 2 were in friendlies (against decent south American squads) but they count just the same.
And at the end of the day, he's going to get opportunities to do it against good competition in games that count. We wont have to speculate. He'll either score....or he wont.
I would agree that I dont think he's going to be a very good goal scorer at the senior level. And in most cases, that's kinda what you need your center forward to do. But he clearly brings other skills (like his hold up play) and tactical know-how to the table that will open things up for others. So until the national team has a #9 (Or Lleget) that can do better (and stay healthy), Josh is likely to get first crack at that spot after Zardes.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I also wouldn’t just dismiss his athleticism. You have have to be pretty damn athletic to be the first choice #1 9 at the U17 level considering it has been the number 1 trait that has been historically selected for by our youth national program and athleticism is more than just straight ahead speed.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
When you put it like that
I also think we’ll end up with plenty of options at the 9, I’m more concerned with cover on the wings and MF and then a real CB combo.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I think that Gio has some goals in him too. Not as many as CP, but will definitely get some during his Nats career.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
That's all well and good, but Werder Bremen is closer to relegation than the top of the table. Plus, he's not scoring a ton of goals for them.
I hope that changes and he progresses and I have no issues with him starting over the rest of the bunch, but if Sargent is the best we have at #9 for the next decade, then that's a hole that will hurt the USMNT and could prevent it from being a real contender.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Fwiw, I don't feel like I have a soft spot for any of these guys. Either they produce or they don't, imo.
At an extreme end of that, and as close to a weakness as I've had, I saw more from Caillou as he aged into oblivion, but I felt his abilities were still demonstrable, even if diminished (I played the same position, so I think I was looking at other things than most of you). Then the abilities I saw diminished further to where he's been a liability, and that :wiping-hands: was that.
I like Sarge, but don't see him winning the US any games riding on his shoulders. But as a savvy 9 who does all the good work beyond knocking in lots of goals (and as posted up thread...he's scored a lot of goals in his career), he's a guy that will make those other attacking players better with his spatial/tactical understanding, movement and skills.
Just popped up on my news feed because ####### google
