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Rodgers is playing the QB position better than anyone... ever


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Feel free to agree, disagree, mock me, whatever. My personal football viewing goes back to Bradshaw, Staubach, Fouts of the 70's era, so I can't speak to Johnny U. or some of the earlier greats, other than what NFL Films and Pro Football Reference tells me.

We always hear about QBs "playing at a high level", right? Well I would argue that Rodgers' highest level is superior to the highest level of any other QB. His passer ratings, in particular have been insane. This is the stat which was eye-opening to me.

Career regular season:

Rodgers has 216 TDs and 55 INTs, 106.4 QB rating.

Peyton Manning has 521 TDs and 228 INTs, 97.7 QB rating.

Rodgers is nearly as consistent in the post-season. 6-4 record, 19 TDs, 5 INTs, 103.1 QB rating.

- His 106.4 career passer rating is the highest of all-time.

- His 1.7 interception percentage is the best ever.

- No QB reached 200 TD passes faster.

- He's averaged 34 TDs per full season.

He makes everything look effortless in a game which requires great effort. Oh, he also has over 1,700 yards rushing.

This isn't meant as disrespect to the other great QBs who have multiple rings. I'm just saying that if my life depended on a team winning one game, and the other 10 players on offense were all of equal ability, I'm taking Rodgers. And I wouldn't even have to think about it for very long. He is unbelievably great and efficient.

I'm just glad the Raiders took Fabian Washington one pick before Green Bay took Rodgers. :wall:

Edited by Raider Nation
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I'm a proponent of having 'best' and 'greatest' be different guys. In golf and football and anything really.

Yes, he's the best QB ever at this point. Peyton is #2 but Peyton is a greater QB historically because he's accomplished more.

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His career ANY/A is by far the best. Whether his other accomplishments match his crazy efficiency, time will tell.

Catching Manning's numbers are really just a matter of how long he wants to play. Of course, Manning has to retire sometime for him to start catching up. But I'm trying not to focus on career totals as much as I am Rodgers playing at a higher level on a game-to-game basis than anyone ever has.

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Feel free to agree, disagree, mock me, whatever. My personal football viewing goes back to Bradshaw, Staubach, Fouts of the 70's era, so I can't speak to Johnny U. or some of the earlier greats, other than what NFL Films and Pro Football Reference tells me.

We always hear about QBs "playing at a high level", right? Well I would argue that Rodgers' highest level is superior to the highest level of any other QB. His passer ratings, in particular have been insane. This is the stat which was eye-opening to me.

Career regular season:

Rodgers has 216 TDs and 55 INTs, 106.4 QB rating.

Peyton Manning has 521 TDs and 228 INTs, 97.7 QB rating.

Rodgers is nearly as consistent in the post-season. 6-4 record, 19 TDs, 5 INTs, 103.1 QB rating.

- His 106.4 career passer rating is the highest of all-time.

- His 1.7 interception percentage is the best ever.

- No QB reached 200 TD passes faster.

- He's averaged 34 TDs per full season.

He makes everything look effortless in a game which requires great effort. Oh, he also has over 1,700 yards rushing.

This isn't meant as disrespect to the other great QBs who have multiple rings. I'm just saying that if my life depended on a team winning one game, and the other 10 players on offense were all of equal ability, I'm taking Rodgers. And I wouldn't even have to think about it for very long. He is unbelievably great and efficient.

I'm just glad the Raiders took Fabian Washington one pick before Green Bay took Rodgers. :wall:

but if they had taken him you wouldn't be making this thread

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His career ANY/A is by far the best. Whether his other accomplishments match his crazy efficiency, time will tell.

Catching Manning's numbers are really just a matter of how long he wants to play. Of course, Manning has to retire sometime for him to start catching up. But I'm trying not to focus on career totals as much as I am Rodgers playing at a higher level on a game-to-game basis than anyone ever has.

There is something to be said about efficiency. I've owned Peyton in Fantasy for the past two years and at times it is painfully obvious he is padding his stats. McCarthy usually puts in Flynn pretty early in games.

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His value is rising as more and more QB that were supposed to be elite are exposed as not much better than replacement level.

There's basically 5 elite QB in the league. 2 of them(Brady and Manning) are close to the end of their careers. 1 of them (Brees) seems to have regressed slightly. It seems to be a fluid situation but the thought that you can't build a team around an elite QB in dynasty seems to be incorrect. If you have Luck or Rodgers you have a huge advantage over your opponent.

Edited by Milkman
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He's not the best yet, but he could be when it's all said and done. The fact that he started later than many won't help his cause - he was 25 when he became a full-time starter - and you'll always have people who look at rings first and foremost (he only has one so far), but if he keeps doing this for another 7-8+ years, he'll be the best ever.

He's been the current best QB since 2011 and nothing I have seen this year has changed my mind.

Edited by Ghost Rider
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RN my history dates to yours. He has the best blend of accuracy, arm strength, mobility, and pocket awareness that I've ever seen.

With that said, and with your Manning comparison in mind, would he be as exposed if he played Belichick every year?

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but if they had taken him you wouldn't be making this thread

Likely true, sadly. We were having this very "talent vs. environment" discussion in the Raiders thread last week and most seemed to think that he would not have been Aaron Rodgers had he gone to Oakland. Hard to argue against that. There have been plenty of talented QBs who suffered from a poor supporting cast. David Carr jumps to mind. I think he could have excelled had he not been getting sacked every 10 seconds behind the woeful O-line of an expansion team.

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With that said, and with your Manning comparison in mind, would he be as exposed if he played Belichick every year?

:no:

This idea that a QB this good gets exposed is nonsense. Every QB has a coach or team he struggles against a lot. Manning has had struggles vs Belichick's Patriots. Brady has had struggles vs the Ravens. It happens to the best of them. It doesn't mean they were exposed.

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With that said, and with your Manning comparison in mind, would he be as exposed if he played Belichick every year?

:no:

This idea that a QB this good gets exposed is nonsense. Every QB has a coach or team he struggles against a lot. Manning has had struggles vs Belichick's Patriots. Brady has had struggles vs the Ravens. It happens to the best of them. It doesn't mean they were exposed.

Who has Rodgers struggled against?
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With that said, and with your Manning comparison in mind, would he be as exposed if he played Belichick every year?

:no:

This idea that a QB this good gets exposed is nonsense. Every QB has a coach or team he struggles against a lot. Manning has had struggles vs Belichick's Patriots. Brady has had struggles vs the Ravens. It happens to the best of them. It doesn't mean they were exposed.

Who has Rodgers struggled against?

Seattle? San Fran?

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With that said, and with your Manning comparison in mind, would he be as exposed if he played Belichick every year?

:no:

This idea that a QB this good gets exposed is nonsense. Every QB has a coach or team he struggles against a lot. Manning has had struggles vs Belichick's Patriots. Brady has had struggles vs the Ravens. It happens to the best of them. It doesn't mean they were exposed.

Who has Rodgers struggled against?

Seattle? San Fran?
How so?
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Factoring in the rules of the era, I think Steve Young is in the conversation of the best of all time. And he ran for over 40 TDs. Like Rodgers, he lost the beginning of his career to a hall of fame QB, not to mention 2 lost years on one of the worst teams ever. When he retired, he had the highest QB ranking of all time.

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Factoring in the rules of the era, I think Steve Young is in the conversation of the best of all time. And he ran for over 40 TDs. Like Rodgers, he lost the beginning of his career to a hall of fame QB, not to mention 2 lost years on one of the worst teams ever. When he retired, he had the highest QB ranking of all time.

Roger Staubach is another who retired as the all-time leader in passer rating.
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Let's give this some more time. I said Peyton was the best I had ever seen ten years ago, and that worked out well. I'd say Rodgers has those kinds of tools, but the way Manning has directed offenses on the field in-play and surgically destroyed defenses over time, it's hard to compare just yet. I'll check back on this thread in 2018 to see where we are. Good idea though. :thumbup:

Right now he's the best and I think he's getting close to being in his own tier.

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He's good, really good. I'm having a hard time deciding really just how good offensive players are in this era, though. The rules, the refs, and the game in general have just shifted so much in favor of passing, how do you account for that in putting someone in their place on an all-time list. It's like these rookie WRs as well - the stats are incredible. Are they really that much better than rookie WR groups before, or is it just a product of the NFL being at its passing game friendliest?

Anyway, stud? Absolutely, no doubt. Hall of Famer? Yup. Best ever? Ehh I can see an argument, but who knows.

It's like baseball in the steroid era.

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Best ever is going to need more than 1 ring. Now, it's "likely" I suppose - but hasn't that been the case for Peyton for a good long time, now?

In terms of skill set (including the mental aspects), hard to think of anyone greater.

Except maybe Randall Cunningham in Tecmo.

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He's good, really good. I'm having a hard time deciding really just how good offensive players are in this era, though. The rules, the refs, and the game in general have just shifted so much in favor of passing, how do you account for that in putting someone in their place on an all-time list. It's like these rookie WRs as well - the stats are incredible. Are they really that much better than rookie WR groups before, or is it just a product of the NFL being at its passing game friendliest?

Anyway, stud? Absolutely, no doubt. Hall of Famer? Yup. Best ever? Ehh I can see an argument, but who knows.

It's like baseball in the steroid era.

Agree until the bolded. In the steroid era, you still had an unfair playing field as not ALL players were on it (and we don't even know for sure who was / was not). Though I understand the perspective of skewed stats, but that's always a part of sport.

I'd liken this to the huge hitting years of the '30s moreso than the steroid era.

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I can't disagree that Rodgers is on pace to be the greatest of all time, but I would caution about the stats comparison to Manning. Remember Manning started as a rookie on a terrible team and has played into his late 30's. Rodgers sat behind Favre for his first couple of years, then took over a very good team and he is still in his prime. Not having had to go through the early year growing pains or late career downswing (although Manning has not had much of a downswing) as well as always playing with great offensive weapons really helps the career stat line.

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Might have something to do with the fact that NFL DB's today aren't allowed to look at receivers without drawing a flag.

All of the rules today are designed to neuter the defense.

Well, yeah, you cannot compare Rodgers to Graham, Baugh, Unitas and even Montana by looking at stats. Rodgers's stats blow the stats of the others out of the water because of the eras in which they played.
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His career ANY/A is by far the best. Whether his other accomplishments match his crazy efficiency, time will tell.

Steve Young, a distant number 2, is the highest in AY/A from the 1990s, Montana the highest from the 1980s, and Staubach from the 1970s. If you factor in Young's 4,000+ rushing yards at 5.9, he might be the most efficient QB of all time.

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I can't disagree that Rodgers is on pace to be the greatest of all time, but I would caution about the stats comparison to Manning. Remember Manning started as a rookie on a terrible team and has played into his late 30's. Rodgers sat behind Favre for his first couple of years, then took over a very good team and he is still in his prime. Not having had to go through the early year growing pains or late career downswing (although Manning has not had much of a downswing) as well as always playing with great offensive weapons really helps the career stat line.

Even if you compare QB's starting with their 4th year, Rodgers is still far ahead in YPA:

        NAME 	        POS 	YRs 	        G 	CMP 	ATT 	PYD 	Y/A 	PTD 	INT 	FANT PT1	Aaron Rodgers	qb	2008--2014	97	2120	3210	26624	8.29	215	54	2415.82	Steve Young	qb	1988--1999	142	2363	3579	29337	8.20	211	86	2780.03	Bart Starr	qb	1960--1971	153	1519	2599	21057	8.10	133	106	1642.84	Philip Rivers	qb	2007--2014	122	2564	3946	31378	7.95	219	102	2404.05	Earl Morrall	qb	1960--1976	208	1112	2107	16723	7.94	139	115	1372.76	Peyton Manning	qb	2001--2014	202	4791	7181	55986	7.80	436	170	4507.2
Also, his 4:1 TD-INT ratio is ridiculous. Edited by cstu
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Just to add another point (and as a possible counter to the rushing yards), but Rodgers has taken sacks at a fairly high rate in his career and those lost yards add up (and can help his passing stats, since he's not throwing the ball away for incompletions).

In 104 career games, Rodgers has been sacked 253 times. His career sack percentage is 7.2%.

In 250 career games, Manning has been sacked 281 times. His career sack percentage is 3.1%.

And just because I'm a Miami fan and think Marino is one of, if not the, best "passer" in NFL history, in 242 career games Marino was sacked 270 times. His career sack percentage is also 3.1%.

1.5 extra sacks for Rodgers over Manning is probably worth about 12 yards/game, which eliminates a lot of the difference between their rushing stats (Rodgers is at 16.4 yards/game to Manning's 2.8 yards/game).

I remember when Rodgers was first starting that the announcers would constantly bring up his high sack totals as one of the weaknesses of those Green Bay teams. And not only can sacks be drive killers, but it wouldn't surprise me if the offensive holding stats show a huge difference between Rodgers and a guy like Manning who generally gets rid of the ball more quickly.

Having said all that, I think Rodgers is an elite QB and one of the best passers on the move in NFL history, along with guys like Elway and Young.

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Maybe. QBR takes all of that into account and Manning is ahead over him there over the last 6-7 years while Rodgers was setting all of these passer rating marks. This season Rodgers is ahead in both stats.

I think the era makes a huge difference for these QBs. The rules make the passing game so much easier than it was 10-15 (let alone 20-30) years ago that it's really hard to compare eras. Manning (and Brady) had 9-10 seasons in the books before Rodgers became a starter, so they haven't really operated under the same rules, especially compared to Manning's first 5-6 years in the league.

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I looked for a while but I can't find it. There was a play Aaron made this year that didn't count it was a 40-50 yard TD pass to Davante Adams that they called back. It's worth watching if you can find it. It's not a big game play like the TO catch for the Niners in the playoffs but it's one of the most amazing throws I have ever seen. He's getting hit high and low and just unleashes the dragon which happens to be a perfectly placed 40-50 yard rope right where Davante Adams can only catch it. He's the only person in the world that can make that throw in that spot. Amazing.

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I looked for a while but I can't find it. There was a play Aaron made this year that didn't count it was a 40-50 yard TD pass to Davante Adams that they called back. It's worth watching if you can find it. It's not a big game play like the TO catch for the Niners in the playoffs but it's one of the most amazing throws I have ever seen. He's getting hit high and low and just unleashes the dragon which happens to be a perfectly placed 40-50 yard rope right where Davante Adams can only catch it. He's the only person in the world that can make that throw in that spot. Amazing.

How hard did you look? I found it in 30 seconds. :)

And yeah, that's a silly throw.

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No you are not nuts.

Although it is kind of nuts to argue for anyone as the best QB ever really. The argument itself is nuts especially when people start using stats and actually saying stuff like "rodgers did this compared to montana or marino" when looking at numbers. If I even need to explain to anyone why those comparisons are dumb, you dont belong in the convo.

You also have to factor in supporting casts and how those casts relate to victories and titles. Luck plays a HUGEEEEEEEEE factor in whether or not some of these top guys have won or lost super bowls. Peyton very well wins one a couple years ago if his idiot defensive back doesnt blow the game against Baltimore. Eli does not win one without a crazy helmet catch by a nobody WR. What does Brady do if Bledsoe never gets injured, and so on and so on. There are many more examples I am not thinking of obviously, plus dozens more I never saw.

I can't sit here and honestly make an argument for any ONE QB as the greatest of all time. But when you mention guys like Rodgers, Manning, Brady, MOntana, Young, Marino, Elway, Favre..........................and some others, I will definitely not argue against it.

Rodgers is pretty sick though.

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I wouldn't say you're nuts, but you are I would guess a Homer. He's good. But he has a long ways to go to prove that he is the best. Top 40 of all time? Sure.

Woah. Top 40 of ALL time? Really going out on a limb there. I'd like to see your list of 40 QBs who are/were better

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I love comparing quarterbacks when they play in the league at the same time. Brady vs Manning and so on. Comparing players that played across different eras is silly to me. The rules change so much, the players change so much, and coaching styles change so much.

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I'm a proponent of having 'best' and 'greatest' be different guys. In golf and football and anything really.

Yes, he's the best QB ever at this point. Peyton is #2 but Peyton is a greater QB historically because he's accomplished more.

So that means Brady is the best and greatest #1 right? Because you know, he's won more Superbowls than Rodgers and Manning, while putting up similar stats.. :)

Edited by devouredbychaos
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I agree with you 100%. Watching football for 40 years. He's the best I've ever seen. I only read your post so I'm gonna assume the Manning crowd is taking umbrage but whatever. His post season winning percentage is already better and he has the same amount of rings. I also appreciate that although he seems to compile stats, he's not afraid to come out early in blowouts unlike Manning. His movement in the pocket combined with his rushing ability (although he does this less now) also sets him apart. Amazing really because I think he is the best passer in the game so yeah...he has it all.

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