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RB Nick Chubb, CLE (4 Viewers)

He ends this discussion today i hope by running amock on the ravens. 

He will sooner than later. Why not today?

 
He had 2 yards today? 

Didn't Hue just say he wanted to get him more touches? 

Last I checked the math, (carry the 1...) today would be uh, less touches. 

Wow. Just....wow. 

 
Carlos ran hard today. Hard to fault to Hue for a win. Otherwise, Chubb should be there, getting stuffed for no gain while Carlos tears it up.  

 
He was bound to crash back down to Earth esp. against the Ravens. Hanging on to him as I have the roster space for now, although with Breida getting hurt I need to get some RB help. 

 
He had 3 carries on 3 snaps in his “breakout” week 4.  And Hyde has been solid.  Were people really thinking that Chubb was just going to run away with this job now?  I can see a scenario where late in the season they are splitting snaps and carries.  But if you picked him up he’s a bench stash until they actually prove it.  

 
rickyg said:
He had 3 carries on 3 snaps in his “breakout” week 4.  And Hyde has been solid.  Were people really thinking that Chubb was just going to run away with this job now?  I can see a scenario where late in the season they are splitting snaps and carries.  But if you picked him up he’s a bench stash until they actually prove it.  
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Most were not, no.

But it’s relevant to note that Hue said he’d earned more carries, and that he wanted to get him more carries.

the point of most of the comments thereafter was that Hue is FOS, and also a huge idiot for not giving such a talented player more work. 

Except for @Soulfly3, who can’t help but predict glory for anyone in a Browns uniform. It would be touching if it weren’t so sad. So, so sad. :(  

 
rickyg said:
He had 3 carries on 3 snaps in his “breakout” week 4.  And Hyde has been solid.  Were people really thinking that Chubb was just going to run away with this job now?  I can see a scenario where late in the season they are splitting snaps and carries.  But if you picked him up he’s a bench stash until they actually prove it.  
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I think people were expecting him to get a series or two per half... you know, as per the quote from the HC.

He was on my bench where I've got him, but the lack of usage was annoying. Hyde's "solid" 3.5 ypc indicates Chubb could help this team. But it worked out this week. A win is a win, especially when you're the Browns.

 
E-Z Glider said:
:doh:
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I got lucky, and realized it was koolaid and made the change back to Crowell.  I play in a TD league, and switching off of Crowell, may not happen for awhile.

I can live with 4 carries for 0 yards, when the next week he goes off, Big Time.

Swamp

 
swampdog said:
I got lucky, and realized it was koolaid and made the change back to Crowell.  I play in a TD league, and switching off of Crowell, may not happen for awhile.

I can live with 4 carries for 0 yards, when the next week he goes off, Big Time.

Swamp
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And one other stat jumped out, RB vs Bal and RB vs Den.  It was pretty clear that Den, could not handle RB's lately.  Great stat line by the way FB Guys.

 
This week shouldn't concern anyone.  Chubb is a long play -- a potential RB2 or even fringe RB1 if/when Hyde is gone.  It's not like the guy would have become startable if his touches tripled from 3 to 9.  He'll become startable if/when they jump from 3 to 20.

Whether that will happen this year is TBD.  I'm holding for now in redraft.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Utilization remained largely unchanged.
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They were trying to work him but he can't pass block so every time he came in the Ravens keyed on him and shut him down.

Haley knew they'd key on him so he attempted passes but still wouldn't put Chubb in pass-pro. 

He motioned him on two attempts.  Lined him up wide which was about as awkward as when the Ravens were lining up Flacco wide whenever they brought in Lamar Jackson and used him as a gadget.  Haley even attempted to use him as the primary receiver on a swing where he beat his man and had a wide-open field ahead of him, Mayfield hit him in stride right in the hands but he dropped it.

Haley was really trying but it wasn't happening. 

The Chubb experiment may or may not continue before he can show that he isn't a liability in the passing game because right now he can't pass protect.

 
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Its gonna take a Hyde injury to give any ff owner a chubby.  

And even then it may be duke.  Stashing him in a short bench $ league for now.  Maybe a year early.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
They were trying to work him but he can't pass block so every time he came in the Ravens keyed on him and shut him down.

Haley knew they'd key on him so he attempted passes but still wouldn't put Chubb in pass-pro. 

He motioned him on two attempts.  Lined him up wide which was about as awkward as when the Ravens were lining up Flacco wide whenever they brought in Lamar Jackson and used him as a gadget.  Haley even attempted to use him as the primary receiver on a swing where he beat his man and had a wide-open field ahead of him, Mayfield hit him in stride right in the hands but he dropped it.

Haley was really trying but it wasn't happening. 

The Chubb experiment may or may not continue before he can show that he isn't a liability in the passing game because right now he can't pass protect.
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Thanks for this. Great insight here

 
If you want the unbiased version of Chubb's performance, this was the FBG write-up:

The coaching staff spoke of getting Chubb more carries after he ripped off two long touchdown runs in Week 4. That didn't happen as the rookie saw just three carries and was targeted once in the passing game. He did have a fourth carry, which went for 14 yards, nullified by an offensive holding penalty. He had a chance to make a catch with some room to run in front of him, but Baker Mayfield threw the ball a bit too high for him to corral. Chubb remains stuck behind Carlos Hyde in the Cleveland backfield and may need an injury to Hyde to make noise this season.
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Strange how FBG says it was too high while Bracie says it hit him in the hands.  :rolleyes:

 
Sarlakticacid said:
Thanks for this. Great insight here
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Thanks.  The proof that he can't pass protect right now, early in his career is the coaches don't dare expose Baker Mayfield to him as a pass protector and would rather split Chubb wide.  Most NFL rookie RBs take time before they learn how to pick up blitzes but Chubb might never be great in pass pro.  

If it were just Chubb learning pass pro it wouldn't be as big of an issue but Baker is still mastering correctly reading and making the right protection calls, the team has a rookie unrestricted free agent left tackle replacing a Hall of Fame LT, the RT is a FA who is getting his first shot as a full time starter and he's been struggling and then their are issues with Mayfield's receiving corps where his 'best' WR was traded early in the season, the second year starting TE has been dropping the ball, the guy who replaced JG is a rookie who has been dropping the ball, and Landry's production has plummeted after he was listed with an injury so the people coming down on him (not here but a lot of people on Twitter) should ease up on him because I think he's not 100%.

He will get used if he can beat stacked boxes and defenses who know he isn't going to pass block or be a receiving threat so they are keying on him anytime he enters a game.  It is tough to ask so he has to learn pass pro to the point he's not a liability. 

 
Holding Chubb in redraft for a few more weeks.  There's not much out there for me and I need RB1-2 with the Collins mess so risk/ reward has me holding.

 
JIslander said:
Holding Chubb in redraft for a few more weeks.  There's not much out there for me and I need RB1-2 with the Collins mess so risk/ reward has me holding.
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You have to hold based on huge upside and you are right.  Their ain't nothing out on the horizon right now. 

Browns OC Todd Haley will keep trying and even though Chubb may never be great as a pass protector Mayfield's supporting cast should work out issues and they will adapt to the point they can utilize Chubb  more and Nich should improve to the point that he's 'good nuff' in pass pro where they can use more of the offense and keep the defense from strictly keying on him running the ball.

Right now it is a tall order to ask a rookie RB to beat NFL defense that don't have to worry about the pass and are keying on stopping him and then give him the ball.  

Who knows?  He might pick up enough to the point he'll be getting the bulk of carries with fresh legs at playoff time.

kneeshooter said:
Looks like it hit him in the hands AND was too high:

https://youtu.be/DrcfJN8mImw?t=201

Tough catch, I wouldn't knock him for that one
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Look at the play again.

Chubb fakes a block then he gets a free release and is wide open, Baker sees it and throws the ball with Chubb in full stride where he doesn't have to slow down and the defender is trying to catch up so Mayfield puts it out away from the defender where only Chubb can catch it so what happens?

Look at Chubb's hands, they are down like he's expecting a cradle-catch where the ball drops but he had clear sight of the ball the second it left Baker's hands and the ball was up away from the trailing defender where only Chubb could catch it so he had to position his hands up.  When the ball gets there he tries to make an adjustment and one hand is up and one hand is down.  It was a play that an NFL RB makes but Chubb is a rookie and he's still learning and they are trying to work him in.  Hopefully the next time he extends his hands and makes the catch.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
You have to hold based on huge upside and you are right.  Their ain't nothing out on the horizon right now. 

Browns OC Todd Haley will keep trying and even though Chubb may never be great as a pass protector Mayfield's supporting cast should work out issues and they will adapt to the point they can utilize Chubb  more and Nich should improve to the point that he's 'good nuff' in pass pro where they can use more of the offense and keep the defense from strictly keying on him running the ball.

Right now it is a tall order to ask a rookie RB to beat NFL defense that don't have to worry about the pass and are keying on stopping him and then give him the ball.  

Who knows?  He might pick up enough to the point he'll be getting the bulk of carries with fresh legs at playoff time.

Look at the play again.

Chubb fakes a block then he gets a free release and is wide open, Baker sees it and throws the ball with Chubb in full stride where he doesn't have to slow down and the defender is trying to catch up so Mayfield puts it out away from the defender where only Chubb can catch it so what happens?

Look at Chubb's hands, they are down like he's expecting a cradle-catch where the ball drops but he had clear sight of the ball the second it left Baker's hands and the ball was up away from the trailing defender where only Chubb could catch it so he had to position his hands up.  When the ball gets there he tries to make an adjustment and one hand is up and one hand is down.  It was a play that an NFL RB makes but Chubb is a rookie and he's still learning and they are trying to work him in.  Hopefully the next time he extends his hands and makes the catch.
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Thanks for the input  --

Regarding that pass play, without seeing other angles, it really looks more like Mayfield threw it too far ahead of him without any touch --

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I'm also not seeing all the wide open field ahead of him.
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I was at the stadium and he had 20 yards of open vertical field and a step on the trailing defender.  Nick chubb had less than a step with defenders with angles on both of his long TD runs the week before in Oakland so I consider that an open field.

Per the drop.  The NFL does not keep official stats for drops but curiously has a definition of a drop as not making a catch that could have been made with a reasonable effort but Chubb did two things wrong with his effort.  First he did not have proper height with his hands since the ball was above his shoulders and he positioned his hands at his waist and was slow to raise them to the proper height.  Second he did not use basic NFL triangle hand technique and never got his hands in proper hand placement at any time.

Baker got the ball to him in stride and he got his hands on the ball which would constitute a drop for a good NFL receiver but the fact he failed to get his hands at the proper height and failed to extend his hands using basic hand placement technique means he is responsible for the incomplete pass.

 
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It feels like shtick at this point. But the opposite of soulfly shtick. It's like the universe's balancing force for soulfly. Instead of nonsensical positivity, it's nonsensical negativity. 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
I was at the stadium and he had 20 yards of open vertical field and a step on the trailing defender.  Nick chubb had less than a step with defenders with angles on both of his long TD runs the week before in Oakland so I consider that an open field.

Per the drop.  The NFL does not keep official stats for drops but curiously has a definition of a drop as not making a catch that could have been made with a reasonable effort but Chubb did two things wrong with his effort.  First he did not have proper height with his hands since the ball was above his shoulders and he positioned his hands at his waist and was slow to raise them to the proper height.  Second he did not use basic NFL triangle hand technique and never got his hands in proper hand placement at any time.

Baker got the ball to him in stride and he got his hands on the ball which would constitute a drop for a good NFL receiver but the fact he failed to get his hands at the proper height and failed to extend his hands using basic hand placement technique means he is responsible for the incomplete pass.
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Not to start another long journey of conversation...but I assume you are not a Chubb fan and think he is overrated correct?

 
FF Ninja said:
It feels like shtick at this point. But the opposite of soulfly shtick. It's like the universe's balancing force for soulfly. Instead of nonsensical positivity, it's nonsensical negativity. 
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my positivity is always based on facts.

 
King of the Jungle said:
Not to start another long journey of conversation...but I assume you are not a Chubb fan and think he is overrated correct?
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I posted multiple times about Chubb's great game because it was amazing but BEFORE last week's game I noted his poor pass-pro and said he wasn't going to replace Hyde until he improved his pass-pro.  What happened?

  • 11 touches
  • 3 runs
  • 2 yards
  • 1 target
  • 0 receptions
  • 1 DROP
Not once in 8 passing attempts was he in pass-pro.  

Browns OC Haley tried to get him on the field in the passing game so the Ravens couldn't key on him as a runner but they didn't respect him as a pass protector or receiver and keyed on him and that is why they were able to shut him down.  He is a liability in the passing game at this time.

They tried but it wasn't working and hurt the offense.  Duke Johnson is the guy who is solid in pass-pro and an excellent receiver and he runs tougher than advertised.  His numbers have suffered and before you automatically say I'm a Duke fan/owner/whatever I don't own any of the Browns backfield.  I am a Browns fan but not a fanboi of any player but Duke needs more touches.

Duke Johnson, frustrated by his lack of chances  After five games last season, he had 23 catches for 270 yards and a TD. This year, he has 10 for 91 yards. At his current clip, he'll finish with 32 catches for 291 yards, and 55 rushes for 240 yards.

Duke had 74 receptions last year and I think Haley will give Duke more touches because Duke is more effective than Chubb in the passing game. 

Its far to easy to accuse anyone who posts positively of being a Chubb owner and then naysay anyone in a Chubb  thread but I've posted positive things about Chubb in this thread and saw the excitement of the Oakland game clouded what to expect when right now he can't pass protect and he shouldn't see the field unless he improves or we'll see more of what we saw against the Ravens.

I have no idea what Haley will do but I would expect Duke to get more touches and that Chubb won't be used as much in the passing game.  Pretty simple take.

 
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