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Physics and astronomy thread (2 Viewers)

Anyone checking out the comet Neowise this week? Nearest point to Earth was last night and its visible below the Big Dipper. I had to use binoculars to see due to the street lights but was able to find it easily.  Thought it was cool to see something that won't back for 6,800 years.

 
Anyone checking out the comet Neowise this week? Nearest point to Earth was last night and its visible below the Big Dipper. I had to use binoculars to see due to the street lights but was able to find it easily.  Thought it was cool to see something that won't back for 6,800 years.
I've been trying, but it has been too cloudy around my neck of the woods.  

 
Appear to still be on, in five days. 

4:50 a.m. PDT/ 7:50 a.m. EDT on July 30

The Mars 2020 spacecraft with its Perseverance Rover will launch on an Atlas V-541 rocket from Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida
 
The Japanese mission to the asteroid is on its way back and will try to land samples from the asteroid on earth soon. Zombie apocalypse to follow?

 
Galileo said:
I've been trying, but it has been too cloudy around my neck of the woods.  
Yeah, same here. Tonight has been the clearest night in over a week, but the only direction with clouds for me tonight is north, just to mess with me.

 
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Yeah, same here. Tonight has been the clearest night in over a week, but the only direction with clouds for me tonight is north, just to mess with me.
I just got my view...clear as a bell tonight.  Unfortunately, there is too much light pollution around me and the moon was also reflecting light into the area so what I saw was a little underwhelming, but still pretty cool.  I got to share it with my kids also, so that was also cool.

 
splashdown successful. support ship approaching to hoist it up.

private boats are approaching the capsule. moe. rons.

 
splashdown successful. support ship approaching to hoist it up.

private boats are approaching the capsule. moe. rons.
just seeing video on twitter - but are you sure those are private boats?

NASA seemed to indicate there were crew there to recover the parachutes and also to check for poisonous gasses around the capsul. 

 
NASA@NASA

👀 Views of our recovery teams approaching the

@SpaceX Dragon capsule and gathering the parachutes in the water. #LaunchAmerica

NASA@NASA·6m

Our recovery teams are making sure that there are no poisonous fumes around the capsule, both for the safety of

@AstroBehnken and @Astro_Doug and the people recovering them from the water

 
just seeing video on twitter - but are you sure those are private boats?

NASA seemed to indicate there were crew there to recover the parachutes and also to check for poisonous gasses around the capsul. 
there's a fleet of private boats out there along with the recovery boats. some of the private boats went right next to the capsule.

 
meanwhile, this headline is on BBC:

Egypt tells Elon Musk its pyramids were not built by aliens

:lol:

I was trying to compare him to Henry Ford for my kids... maybe not exactly like Henry Ford

 
you watching the live feed?

I'm transfixed...love this stuff. hatch opening imminent.

eta: still monitoring air around the capsule prior to hatch opening.
Yeah - just pulled up the feed.  Capsule looks a little weird - like parts of it were melting on re-entry.

I hope Bob and Doug have their Covid masks...

 
Yeah - just pulled up the feed.  Capsule looks a little weird - like parts of it were melting on re-entry.

I hope Bob and Doug have their Covid masks...
Yes, the discoloration is due to the high temperatures during re-entry thru the atmosphere. Up 3,500 degrees F.

 
Yes, the discoloration is due to the high temperatures during re-entry thru the atmosphere. Up 3,500 degrees F.
Discoloration makes sense - but the areas around the lower windows by the hatch look "bubbly" - but that could just be my feed.

But, that make me think of another question - is any part of the capsule re-usable?  (Like is there an inner-shell, or similar, that can be used in future missions?)

 
Discoloration makes sense - but the areas around the lower windows by the hatch look "bubbly" - but that could just be my feed.

But, that make me think of another question - is any part of the capsule re-usable?  (Like is there an inner-shell, or similar, that can be used in future missions?)
I think the humans can be reused for future spaceflight.

 
Discoloration makes sense - but the areas around the lower windows by the hatch look "bubbly" - but that could just be my feed.

But, that make me think of another question - is any part of the capsule re-usable?  (Like is there an inner-shell, or similar, that can be used in future missions?)
I thought it was all reusable?

 
I thought it was all reusable?
It might be - I don't know.  I know the first stage booster was reusable, but wasn't sure if the outer shell of the capsule could withstand multiple re-entries.

I seem to recall the Space Shuttle was reusable, simply replacing the heat shield tiles, I just did not know how that worked on this particular capsule.

 
Quick google - amongst all the tears:

WASHINGTON — NASA will allow SpaceX to reuse Crew Dragon spacecraft and the Falcon 9 first stages for launching them as soon as next year.

A modification to the Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) contract NASA has with SpaceX, published last month, will allow SpaceX to reuse both the Falcon 9 first stage and Crew Dragon spacecraft starting with the second operational mission of the spacecraft, known as Post-Certification Mission (PCM) 2 or Crew-2. That change was described as part of a “bilateral modification” that also formally extended the length of the Demo-2 mission from two weeks to as long as 119 days.

👍

Rest of the article:

The move is a change for SpaceX, as the company originally planned to use a new Crew Dragon spacecraft on each of its commercial crew missions for NASA. That stood in contrast to Boeing, which will refurbish its CST-100 Starliner crew modules between flights.

Company officials earlier this year, though, hinted that they were now considering reusing Crew Dragon vehicles on NASA flights. “We intend for Crew Dragon to also be fully reusable,” said Benji Reed, director of crew mission management at SpaceX, during a briefing about a month before the launch of the Demo-2 mission. The Crew Dragon flying the Demo-2 mission, he said, would be reused, but didn’t say at the time if the spacecraft would be reused on a NASA or non-NASA mission.

NASA spokesperson Stephanie Schierholz said in response to SpaceNews questions about the contract modification that SpaceX approached NASA about allowing the reuse of spacecraft and boosters on later missions.

“In this case, SpaceX has proposed to reuse future Falcon 9 and/or Crew Dragon systems or components for NASA missions to the International Space Station because they believe it will be beneficial from a safety and/or cost standpoint,” she said. “NASA performed an in-depth review and determined that the terms of the overall contract modification were in the best interests of the government.”

The Demo-2 mission used both a new Crew Dragon spacecraft and new Falcon 9 rocket. The same will be true for the first operational mission, Crew-1 or PCM-1, scheduled for no earlier than Aug. 30. PCM-2 would launch some time in 2021, Schierholz said.

The reuse of a Falcon 9 booster or Crew Dragon spacecraft on any NASA mission will require a “delta-certification” review by NASA, she said, and NASA won’t allow any vehicles that are “flight leaders” in terms of service life be used for those missions. SpaceX has tended to test the limits of Falcon 9 booster reuse on its own Starlink launches, including a June 3 launch that marked the fifth launch and landing of the same booster.
 
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It sounds like they originally were not going to re-use crew capsules but have re-considered, given the costs.  Each flight would be subject to a new certification from NASA.

 
just seeing video on twitter - but are you sure those are private boats?

NASA seemed to indicate there were crew there to recover the parachutes and also to check for poisonous gasses around the capsul. 
there's a fleet of private boats out there along with the recovery boats. some of the private boats went right next to the capsule.
Boaters gatecrash SpaceX's 1st splashdown with astronauts. 'We need to do better,' NASA chief says

 
Maybe a separate thread... I keep talking about buying a telescope, but feel like I was always get overwhelmed with research. I have a birthday coming up and thinking about finally doing this and telling my wife to buy me one.  I'm just outside DC with a lot of light pollution, but would like to be able to take for travel by car to some places with a bit less light pollution (e.g., have a stay at an AirBNB on a farm in rural Virginia in a few weeks).  I would like to be able to see some detail on planets (maybe Jupiter's moons), nebula, etc. Photography not the goal; smartphone adapter should be enough.

I'm looking at the Celestron AstroMaster 130 EQ.  Any thoughts if I'd be happy with that one?  I could spend a couple hundred more for a computerized -- worth it?  Will I want additional accessory eyepieces?

 
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Maybe a separate thread... I keep talking about buying a telescope, but feel like I was always get overwhelmed with research. I have a birthday coming up and thinking about finally doing this and telling my wife to buy me one.  I'm just outside DC with a lot of light pollution, but would like to be able to take for travel by car to some places with a bit less light pollution (e.g., have a stay at an AirBNB on a farm in rural Virginia in a few weeks).  I would like to be able to see some detail on planets (maybe Jupiter's moons), nebula, etc. Photography not the goal; smartphone adapter should be enough.

I'm looking at the Celestron AstroMaster 130 EQ.  Any thoughts if I'd be happy with that one?  I could spend a couple hundred more for a computerized -- worth it?  Will I want additional accessory eyepieces?




That seems to be a good beginner scope imo.

I use a slightly smaller celestron 120mm and I can see Jupiter's moons easily and get good detail on Satrun's rings. Waiting to try it this fall on the Orion Nebula to see if I can get a glimpse of that. I think that's good one to start with. 

 
Maybe a separate thread... I keep talking about buying a telescope, but feel like I was always get overwhelmed with research. I have a birthday coming up and thinking about finally doing this and telling my wife to buy me one.  I'm just outside DC with a lot of light pollution, but would like to be able to take for travel by car to some places with a bit less light pollution (e.g., have a stay at an AirBNB on a farm in rural Virginia in a few weeks).  I would like to be able to see some detail on planets (maybe Jupiter's moons), nebula, etc. Photography not the goal; smartphone adapter should be enough.

I'm looking at the Celestron AstroMaster 130 EQ.  Any thoughts if I'd be happy with that one?  I could spend a couple hundred more for a computerized -- worth it?  Will I want additional accessory eyepieces?
As a beginner myself, I'd recommend you go with a Dobsonian telescope.  A few years ago I was in your spot and bought a similar scope.  It was on an equatorial mount, like that one in the link.  I had so much trouble with it.   It was just a tad overwhelming to me. 

I went with this 6 inch Dob.   If I had it to do over I should have gone with the 8 inch.  Either way, I was able to get it set up in an hour or so then come nightfall you can dial in on about any planet in no time.  Mars, Venus, Jupiter and Saturn take no time to find and focus on.   I haven't looked at any deep space objects yet, but from what I learned early on is what people post pictures of is NOT what you see in your telescope. 

It is a big scope, which is its major downside.  I haven't traveled with it yet.  It wouldn't be impossible, but definitely not easy.    

I just ordered a phone adapter, but haven't tried it out yet. 

I don't know anything about the computerized scopes.  Thats going to be my next purchase, but I'm in no rush.   

 
jb1020 said:
As a beginner myself, I'd recommend you go with a Dobsonian telescope.  A few years ago I was in your spot and bought a similar scope.  It was on an equatorial mount, like that one in the link.  I had so much trouble with it.   It was just a tad overwhelming to me. 

I went with this 6 inch Dob.   If I had it to do over I should have gone with the 8 inch.  Either way, I was able to get it set up in an hour or so then come nightfall you can dial in on about any planet in no time.  Mars, Venus, Jupiter and Saturn take no time to find and focus on.   I haven't looked at any deep space objects yet, but from what I learned early on is what people post pictures of is NOT what you see in your telescope. 

It is a big scope, which is its major downside.  I haven't traveled with it yet.  It wouldn't be impossible, but definitely not easy.    

I just ordered a phone adapter, but haven't tried it out yet. 

I don't know anything about the computerized scopes.  Thats going to be my next purchase, but I'm in no rush.   
The size does look like the major downside with that one. The dimensions on that look relatively big next to a 6’ tall person. I’d like something that I can easily stick in a car when going on a trip, along with suitcases and whatever kid needs, and it might be tough with that one.

 
Life on Venus?  From NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/science/venus-life-clouds.html

Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

The detection of a gas in the planet’s atmosphere could turn scientists’ gaze to a planet long overlooked in the search for extraterrestrial life.

By Shannon Stirone, Kenneth Chang and Dennis Overbye

Sept. 14, 2020 Updated 2:58 p.m. ET

High in the toxic atmosphere of the planet Venus, astronomers on Earth have discovered signs of what might be life.

If the discovery is confirmed by additional telescope observations and future space missions, it could turn the gaze of scientists toward one of the brightest objects in the night sky. Venus, named after the Roman goddess of beauty, roasts at temperatures of hundreds of degrees and is cloaked by clouds that contain droplets of corrosive sulfuric acid. Few have focused on the rocky planet as a habitat for something living.

Instead, for decades, scientists have sought signs of life elsewhere, usually peering outward to Mars and more recently at Europa, Enceladus and other icy moons of the giant planets.

The astronomers, who reported the finding on Monday in a pair of papers, have not collected specimens of Venusian microbes, nor have they snapped any pictures of them. But with powerful telescopes, they have detected a chemical — phosphine — in the thick Venus atmosphere. After much analysis, the scientists assert that something now alive is the only explanation for the chemical’s source.

Some researchers question this hypothesis, and they suggest instead that the gas could result from unexplained atmospheric or geologic processes on a planet that remains mysterious. But the finding will also encourage some planetary scientists to ask whether humanity has overlooked a planet that may have once been more Earthlike than any other world in our solar system.

“This is an astonishing and ‘out of the blue’ finding,” said Sara Seager, a planetary scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an author of the papers (one published in Nature Astronomy and another submitted to the journal Astrobiology). “It will definitely fuel more research into the possibilities for life in Venus’s atmosphere.”

“We know that it is an extraordinary discovery,” said Clara Sousa-Silva, a molecular astrophysicist at Harvard University whose research has focused on phosphine, and another of the authors. “We may not know just how extraordinary without going back to Venus.”

Sarah Stewart Johnson, a planetary scientist and head of the Johnson Biosignatures Lab at Georgetown University who was not involved in the work, said, “There’s been a lot of buzz about phosphine as a biosignature gas for exoplanets recently,” referring to the search for life on worlds that orbit other stars. “How cool to find it on Venus.”

She added: “Venus has been ignored by NASA for so long. It’s really a shame.”

David Grinspoon of the Planetary Science Institute in Tucson, Ariz., who was not part of the work but has long promoted the possibility of life in Venus’s clouds, said, “That is pretty damn exciting!”

The work needs to be followed up, he said, “but this could be the first observation we’ve made which reveals an alien biosphere and, what do you know, it’s on the closest planet to home in the entire cosmos.”

Venus is one of the most beautiful objects in Earth’s sky. But at a closer glance, the less lovely it becomes.

Often called Earth’s twin, Venus is roughly the same mass as Earth. Many scientists think that Venus was once covered in water and possessed an atmosphere where life as we know it could have flourished.

In earlier days of the solar system, Earth was not so hospitable to the likes of us. There was life here then, even an entire biosphere that did not survive in the oxygen-rich environment that later developed. And much as Earth over time became a home for jellyfish, ferns, dinosaurs and Homo sapiens, Venus was transformed by something into a hell.

Today, the second planet from the sun has an atmosphere stifled by carbon dioxide gas, and surface temperatures that average more than 800 degrees Fahrenheit. The dense atmosphere of Venus exerts a pressure of more than 1,300 pounds per square inch on anything at the surface. That is more than 90 times the 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level on Earth, or the equivalent to being 3,000 feet underwater in the ocean.

It is hardly a place that makes visiting or research easy, although that doesn’t mean people haven’t tried. Space programs have tried dozens of robotic missions to Venus, many of them in the Soviet Union’s Venera series. But the planet eats metal, within minutes melting down and crushing spacecraft that have landed there. Of all those attempts, only two managed to directly capture images of the planet’s surface.

Whereas frigid Mars is currently ringed by orbiters and prowled by NASA rovers, Venus is being studied by only one probe, the lonely Japanese spacecraft Akatsuki. Future missions to the planet are still mere concepts.

Although the surface of Venus is like a blast furnace, a cloud layer just 31 miles below the top of its atmosphere may reach temperatures as low as 86 degrees Fahrenheit, and has a pressure similar to that at ground level on Earth. Many planetary scientists, including Carl Sagan and Harold Morowitz, who proposed the idea 53 years ago, have hypothesized life may exist there.

Jane Greaves, an astronomer at Cardiff University in Wales, set out in June 2017 to test that hypothesis using the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope in Hawaii, looking for signs of various molecules on Venus. Different species of molecules will absorb radio waves coming through the clouds at different characteristic wavelengths. One of the chemicals was phosphine. She did not expect to find it.

“I got intrigued by the idea of looking for phosphine, because phosphorus might be a bit of a sort of go-no-go for life,” Dr. Greaves said.

Chemists compare phosphine to a pyramid — one atom of phosphorus topping a base of three hydrogen atoms. The NASA spacecraft Cassini detected it in the atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn. In that setting, Dr. Sousa-Silva said, life is not necessary to form phosphine. The immense heat and pressures can jam the phosphrous and hydrogen atoms together to form the molecule.

Phosphine is shaped like a pyramid with three atoms of hydrogen bonded to a single atom of phosphorus.

But on smaller, rocky planets like Earth and Venus, the researchers say, there is not enough energy to produce copious amounts of phosphine in the same way. There is one thing, however, that appears to be very good at producing it: anaerobic life, or microbial organisms that don’t require or use oxygen.

On such worlds, “as far as we can tell, only life can make phosphine,” Dr. Sousa-Silva said. She has long studied the gas, on the theory that finding it being emitted from rocky planets that orbit distant stars could be proof that life exists elsewhere in the Milky Way.

Here on Earth, phosphine is found in our intestines, in the feces of badgers and penguins, and in some deep sea worms, as well as other biological environments associated with anaerobic organisms. It is also extremely poisonous. Militaries have employed it for chemical warfare, and it is used as a fumigant on farms. On the TV show “Breaking Bad,” the main character, Walter White, makes it to kill two rivals.

But scientists have yet to explain how Earth microbes make it.

“There’s not a lot of understanding of where it’s coming from, how it forms, things like that,” said Matthew Pasek, a geoscientist at the University of South Florida in Tampa. “We’ve seen it associated with where microbes are at, but we have not seen a microbe do it, which is a subtle difference, but an important one.”

Dr. Sousa-Silva was surprised when Dr. Greaves said that she had detected phosphine.

“That moment plays in my mind a lot, because I took a few minutes to consider what was happening,” she said.

If there really was phosphine on Venus, she believed there could be no other obvious explanation than anaerobic life.

“What we find circumstantially also makes complete sense with what we know thermodynamically,” she said.

The team needed a more powerful telescope, and the scientists next used the Atacama Large Millimeter Array, in Chile, in March 2019.

This time, they found, all signs pointed to phosphine, and a lot of it, ranging from 5 to 20 parts per billion. Although those numbers might seem small, that’s thousands of times more than what is in Earth’s atmosphere.

Dr. Sousa-Silva, Dr. Greaves and their colleagues had planned to complete additional telescope observations earlier this year. But the coronavirus pandemic and Venus’s limited time above the horizon interfered with their ability to gather more evidence, leaving many questions unanswered.

“The finding itself is astonishing,” said Paul Byrne, a planetary scientist at North Carolina State University in Raleigh who was not involved in the research. He said that although he was “skeptical of it being life, I don’t have a better explanation for what it is.”

The team spent a year recreating the Venusian environment in computer simulations to test different explanations for the phosphine’s source and abundance.

“The light is constantly breaking the phosphine down, so you have to continuously replenish it,” said William Bains, a biochemist at M.I.T. and one of the co-authors of the papers.

Volcanic activity and lightning on Venus would not be sufficient to add more of this constantly disappearing phosphine, according to the researchers’ models. But living things could emit enough of the gas.

“What we’ve done is rule out all other sources of phosphine other than life,” Dr. Bains said.

Other planetary scientists counter that a non-biological origin cannot be ruled out.

“Despite prior speculation (mostly by the same authors), this can hardly be taken as a biosignature,” Gerald Joyce, a biologist at the Salk Institute in California who has experimented with creating life in the lab, said in an email. In their own paper, he noted, the researchers wrote that “the detection of phosphine is not robust evidence for life, only for anomalous and unexplained chemistry.”

A similar note of caution was voiced by James Kasting, a geoscientist and expert on planetary habitability at Pennsylvania State University in State College, who said, “The model atmospheric composition that they show is, at best, incomplete.”

The finding also follows a history of detections of gases on other worlds that can be byproducts of life. But these gases, such as burps of methane or oxygen on Mars, can also be produced by chemical reactions that do not involve life at all. So far, such signals have been intriguing, but they are not convincing proof of aliens.

While few doubt whether this phosphine is there, what kind of life in the clouds of Venus would it take to actually make the gas?

Such living things would have had to evolve to survive in a high-acid environment, perhaps with protective outer layers similar to microscopic organisms in Earth’s most extreme environments.

In a paper published in August, Dr. Seager and her colleagues suggested that microbes borne aloft on air currents called gravity waves could live, metabolize and reproduce inside droplets of sulfuric acid and water. And given the amount of gas being produced, the population of these microbes would be ample.

As to how these microbes got there, the best guess, she said, is that they originated on the surface when Venus had oceans as late as 700 million years ago, but they were forced into the skies when the planet dried up.

And nobody knows whether the microbes, if real, are based on DNA like us, or something entirely different.

“When looking for life elsewhere, it’s so hard to not be Earth-centric,” Dr. Sousa-Silva said. “Because we only have that one data point.”

Before their imaginations run away, the researchers want to gather more telescope data and see their models tested and challenged. Robotic space missions to Venus could also advance the search.

India’s space agency has proposed a mission, in the coming years, as has a private rocket company, Rocket Lab.

And NASA, which has declined to fund a number of Venus missions in recent decades, announced in February that it would consider a pair of proposed spacecraft among four finalists competing for a round of funding.

“For the last two decades, we keep making new discoveries that collectively imply a significant increase of the likelihood to find life elsewhere,” said Thomas Zurbuchen, the head of NASA’s science directorate, who helps select missions to explore the solar system. “Many scientists would not have guessed that Venus would be a significant part of this discussion. But, just like an increasing number of planetary bodies, Venus is proving to be an exciting place of discovery.”
 

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