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GM's Thread About Everything/GM's Thread About Nothing (6 Viewers)

Brief "poll" here, just cuz I'm curious/bored....

How many of you are working in an industry that would require you to "test" for a position which you've been utilizing the necessary skills for, let's say, 15+ years with references/samples of work or whatever to back up that you aren't some jackanape lying about your skillset/experience?

My industry does this and always has.  I've been taking "tests" for two weeks instead of, you know, actually getting interviewed, hired and doing real work.  My contemporaries and I complain about it every time we find ourselves in the market for a new gig and view it as archaic, ritualistic BS.....yet now many of the individuals in "power" positions throughout the industry are basically our demographic.  No idea why this practice is still being used if most everyone of a certain age/skillset believes it's bull####.  You can refuse to do it, and some people I know flatly do across the board(typically you have to be a real rock star to get away with it), and I've refused at times too when I get a bad vibe about a place, yet some studios will NEVER consider a candidate who doesn't agree to jump through that hoop, even if their work is fantastic.

Wondering if this has seeped into other industries that may be less "creative" than mine.  I know computer programmers who have told me this has happened to them as well, so I guess there's at least one other type of job that's doing it.

 
5-ish Finkle said:
Brief "poll" here, just cuz I'm curious/bored....

How many of you are working in an industry that would require you to "test" for a position which you've been utilizing the necessary skills for, let's say, 15+ years with references/samples of work or whatever to back up that you aren't some jackanape lying about your skillset/experience?

My industry does this and always has.  I've been taking "tests" for two weeks instead of, you know, actually getting interviewed, hired and doing real work.  My contemporaries and I complain about it every time we find ourselves in the market for a new gig and view it as archaic, ritualistic BS.....yet now many of the individuals in "power" positions throughout the industry are basically our demographic.  No idea why this practice is still being used if most everyone of a certain age/skillset believes it's bull####.  You can refuse to do it, and some people I know flatly do across the board(typically you have to be a real rock star to get away with it), and I've refused at times too when I get a bad vibe about a place, yet some studios will NEVER consider a candidate who doesn't agree to jump through that hoop, even if their work is fantastic.

Wondering if this has seeped into other industries that may be less "creative" than mine.  I know computer programmers who have told me this has happened to them as well, so I guess there's at least one other type of job that's doing it.
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No.  But I'm pretty sure I could pass most 8th grade History tests. 

 
No.  But I'm pretty sure I could pass most 8th grade History tests. 
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Well, it'd be more like a school asking you to come up with 3 year's worth of lesson plans before they'd consider having you come in to have a sit-down interview.

(Well,I guess one year's worth of lesson plans.  Cuz, I mean, let's be honest.....you only ever do that once then just recycle it forever, right? Nothing new in history ever happens anyway. :) )

I used to believe it was a way for studios with "loose morals" to get free contract work done by industry pros(I'm sure that's happened to at least two folks I know.  Saw their "test" work used in things that actually got released).  I'm still not convinced that isn't happening more often than I'd want to believe.

 
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You guys, don't freak out or anything, but I just noticed a HUGE plot hole in Final Destination 3. It really has made me lose respect for the entire franchise. So disappointing. 

 
5-ish Finkle said:
Brief "poll" here, just cuz I'm curious/bored....

How many of you are working in an industry that would require you to "test" for a position which you've been utilizing the necessary skills for, let's say, 15+ years with references/samples of work or whatever to back up that you aren't some jackanape lying about your skillset/experience?
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Not the same, but I know a high-tech company that only hires people with a 3.3 GPA or higher from college...even if they've been in the workforce for years, or even decades.  Rejected an outstanding sales manager candidate with an amazing track record because his GPA from 20+ years ago was 3.1.

 
pats3in4 said:
Not the same, but I know a high-tech company that only hires people with a 3.3 GPA or higher from college...even if they've been in the workforce for years, or even decades.  Rejected an outstanding sales manager candidate with an amazing track record because his GPA from 20+ years ago was 3.1.
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Reminds me a little of the Highly Qualified Teacher facet of the No Child Left Behind Act.   When NCLB first hit in 2001 I knew a few teachers that had to scramble to fulfill California's idea of what a Highly Qualified Teacher is/was.  

A woman I worked with had been teaching 7th grade math for something like 8 years.  But her original degree was in Business.  Before she became a teacher she worked as an accountant and then an insurance adjuster.  She actually had real-life experience when it came to math.  Because of NCLB/HQT she had to take a few more classes to be highly qualified.

If you're really bored read this

Controversies and Debates about Teacher Quality

According to NCLB, a highly qualified teacher must have “1) a bachelor’s degree, 2) full state certification or licensure, and 3) prove that they know each subject they teach.” Beyond that, NCLB does not define its terminology, and it leaves requirements up the states. States are allowed the liberty to determine how teachers can prove their content knowledge. Many states have chosen to approach this issue with standardized content exams. However, the exams, themselves, are not standardized. This means that “qualification” has a different meaning in each state. A teacher who may be deemed “highly qualified” by Alabama standards, may not be deemed “highly qualified” by California standards. Some scholars point out that “from a practical standpoint, interstate differences in what it meant to be certified provided the federal government with few assurances that, across the board, the nations’ teachers were qualified to teach.”[17] There is also widespread disagreement about what it means to be a highly qualified teacher.

According to the National Commission on Teaching and America’s future, HQTs should “graduate from accredited institutions, pass licensing examinations that include both content and performance components, and be certified when they obtain advanced levels of competence.”[18] While others point out that standardized test scores and prestigious degrees neither effectively prepare HQTs for the classroom nor capture the qualities necessary to be an effective teacher.

Where States are Today

Ultimately, while the Department of Education may boast 97% HQTs in core content classrooms, the true meaning of “qualified” remains vague and transient. It will be interesting to compare requirements of HQTs with student success on state standardized exams. Perhaps this will be a way to determine whether HQTs result in proficient and advanced students.

 
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Anyway to recover the quotes to my post in the now defunct dead porn girls thread or whatever it was called?  I wanted to see what they said

 
So, level with me here.....which of you miscreants is the SWC alias?  You can PM me, for realz.  I won't tell a soul.  

Cuz "take that to the glass house stone thrower bank bromigo" in the "All Dudes Under 20 Act Fey" thread actually made me chortle out loud.

 
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pats3in4 said:
Not the same, but I know a high-tech company that only hires people with a 3.3 GPA or higher from college...even if they've been in the workforce for years, or even decades.  Rejected an outstanding sales manager candidate with an amazing track record because his GPA from 20+ years ago was 3.1.
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Sorry, but that's dumb.  How does a person's GPA 20+ years ago have any effect on his current performance?

 
Does anyone know a good divorce attorney in austin?  If not, does anyone have suggestions on how to choose a good attorney?

 
Abraham said:
Does anyone know a good divorce attorney in austin?  If not, does anyone have suggestions on how to choose a good attorney?
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I think Henry Ford is right that biggie likely knows somebody. 

If not, here is a link to avvvo.com for Austin. 

Avvo is a bit like Yelp for lawyers, though the reviews aren't generally as annoying as Yelp's.

I found an attorney on it who was absolutely awesome. 

 
5-ish Finkle said:
Brief "poll" here, just cuz I'm curious/bored....

How many of you are working in an industry that would require you to "test" for a position which you've been utilizing the necessary skills for, let's say, 15+ years with references/samples of work or whatever to back up that you aren't some jackanape lying about your skillset/experience?

My industry does this and always has.  I've been taking "tests" for two weeks instead of, you know, actually getting interviewed, hired and doing real work.  My contemporaries and I complain about it every time we find ourselves in the market for a new gig and view it as archaic, ritualistic BS.....yet now many of the individuals in "power" positions throughout the industry are basically our demographic.  No idea why this practice is still being used if most everyone of a certain age/skillset believes it's bull####.  You can refuse to do it, and some people I know flatly do across the board(typically you have to be a real rock star to get away with it), and I've refused at times too when I get a bad vibe about a place, yet some studios will NEVER consider a candidate who doesn't agree to jump through that hoop, even if their work is fantastic.

Wondering if this has seeped into other industries that may be less "creative" than mine.  I know computer programmers who have told me this has happened to them as well, so I guess there's at least one other type of job that's doing it.
Click to expand...
When I was looking for summer jobs during college I had to do a few autocad drafting "tests" to prove I actually knew how to draft.   I really wish we would require it at my current job.  The last 3 or 4 drafters that made claims about how great they were at it all sucked and we let them go shortly after hiring them.  Showing finished work doesn't really show anything since who knows how long it took them to draft it.

 
In an unbelievable turn of events my wife called me and said "I understand, I'm done being angry, please help me find a way to raise these girls (read: don't make me put them in daycare and go back to work). I actually want this too.  

My theory is she talked to an attorney that said "what do you want most?" "To raise my kids". "What does he have we can take $!$?" "Nothing". "Then you should call and ask if he can do that". 

Whole thing finished with "maybe we will turn in to the best of friends, you can be happy and be part of the girls lives because they need you, I can raise them." 

I will never ever understand women. Ever. 

 
Abraham said:
In an unbelievable turn of events my wife called me and said "I understand, I'm done being angry, please help me find a way to raise these girls (read: don't make me put them in daycare and go back to work). I actually want this too.  

My theory is she talked to an attorney that said "what do you want most?" "To raise my kids". "What does he have we can take $!$?" "Nothing". "Then you should call and ask if he can do that". 

Whole thing finished with "maybe we will turn in to the best of friends, you can be happy and be part of the girls lives because they need you, I can raise them." 

I will never ever understand women. Ever. 
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Sounds like you understand her.

 
I don't pretend to know what happened with you and your wife, Abe, and I wish you the best of everything in the world.  

But if you two can come to an agreement, for God's sake get it filed with a Court.

The purpose of a divorce agreement is the same as the purpose of marriage itself. To make it harder and more expensive to change things than it is to leave them the same.

 
#### of crap?  no that's not it...

Fritz the Cat?  mmmmm, that's not it either.

It's a wrap?  getting closer I think.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, what is that saying with that Star Trek Muppet....you know, the one where Lando drives the Falcon.  Damn it.  On the tip of my tongue.


 

 
UOFI_316 said:
When I was looking for summer jobs during college I had to do a few autocad drafting "tests" to prove I actually knew how to draft.   I really wish we would require it at my current job.  The last 3 or 4 drafters that made claims about how great they were at it all sucked and we let them go shortly after hiring them.  Showing finished work doesn't really show anything since who knows how long it took them to draft it.
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Thanks for the response.  Didn't consider drafters/architects being required to do this sort of thing too.

When you're talking about people with little to no experience, testing makes a bit more sense, I agree.  And I didn't care so much about jumping through that hoop as a rookie.  However, you really don't know how long it took them to finish a test either unless you're making them do it in person(or only give them a day to do it, I suppose....but they could always just get someone else to do it too).  I've worked with more than a few places that have hired people that turned out to be lying liars that lie about their skill level.  Guess what they also were required to do first?  Testing didn't weed them out, unfortunately.

I'm talking about people with 15-20 years of experience plus verifiable samples and copious references.  It just seems backward and a waste of time(and opens up a few opportunities for companies/or at least individuals at those companies to be unethical).

 
Dan Lambskin said:
 Wat?  You forget to log in as your @rockactionalias?
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He's on some other planet with his level of shtick and I just wish I could understand it.  Me?  I'm just an idiot trying to make a horrible joke at poor Babe's expense.  Specifically, his wife wanting to work everything out in an abrupt change of face.  My message to Babe:  IT'S A TRAP!!!!

 
Abraham said:
In an unbelievable turn of events my wife called me and said "I understand, I'm done being angry, please help me find a way to raise these girls (read: don't make me put them in daycare and go back to work). I actually want this too.  

My theory is she talked to an attorney that said "what do you want most?" "To raise my kids". "What does he have we can take $!$?" "Nothing". "Then you should call and ask if he can do that". 

Whole thing finished with "maybe we will turn in to the best of friends, you can be happy and be part of the girls lives because they need you, I can raise them." 

I will never ever understand women. Ever. 
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Good to hear.

Still, you have a lot of work in front of you regarding custody.  Something like "...be part of the girls lives because they need you, I can raise them" can be interpreted in several ways.  Maybe she's looking at 50/50 custody.  Or maybe she's looking at 95/5 where you see your kids for dinners here and there and that's her idea of you being part of their lives.

At least she's opening up communication on this so keep talking, asking for clarifications and making proposals.  Best of luck to you.

ETA: Just saw GM's post ("It's a Trap!").  My point about finding out where she's going with her comments is along those lines.

 
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