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DFS data leak: employees cheating? (1 Viewer)

One of the coowners responded in the post an hour or two ago. Many deleted posts were replaced and he acknowledged the mistake. Overall I think the mods weren't too bad, there's alot of anger. It must have felt like they were charged with controlling a wildfire with water spritzers.

 
Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR, yes.... bad for the industry overall, yes... but if I had that DK data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k at FD today.

Given the amount of money that stands to be made and the ease of moving across sites, this is a climate ripe for insider trading. We see trading like this across industries. It would be naive to think DFS is immune.
This is like having insider trading information for Apple and making a killing on options trades for Google.

 
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Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR, yes.... bad for the industry overall, yes... but if I had that DK data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k at FD today.
It's not just ownership percentages from Thursday games. I'm sure an employee can get ownership percentages on Sunday games 10 minutes before kickoff too. The employee didn't just happen to get lucky and win $350K.

 
Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR... but if I had that data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k today.
Ownership % is bigger than you think. It is more open in football because we have Thurs night contests to look at and get an idea for Sunday, but in baseball it is a big difference where contests run daily.

Think of it this way Player A & B both have a salary of $3000 You see on Draftkings that Player A is looking to be 35% owned and Player B is looking to be 5% owned. Suffice to say that Player A is probably going to be higher owned on Fanduel as well. In a GPP do you plug Player A in or Player B? You would obviously go with Player B because of the lower ownership %. Remember, baseball is much more of a crapshoot than football because any player can go 0-4 as easy as 3-4 With a HR.

It seems part of the issue at Rotogrinders was that this happened a week ago and Fanduel & Draftkings did not respond (assuming they were hoping it would just go away)

 
There's no doubt this is terrible for the growing industry but most folks haven't stopped investing in stocks and mutual funds in spite of yearly misdeeds on Wall Street, Big Four accounting firms, sweatshops, etc. If FD and DK handle this firestorm well it may yet bring even more money into their coffers over the long haul; bad publicity is better than none at all FD and DK need to take swift steps to contain the bad news, shape the public story, and make it easy for future players to confidently sink their fun money into this hobby without wondering if the competition has an inside edge. They should pool their resources and hire a specialty PR firm to advise them - now - before the story gets away from them, e.g., http://www.dpkpr.com/crisis/

A year from now DFS may yet be even more popular if they play their cards right.

 
Didn't he win 350k on Football, not MLB? Also that example requires that both players have the same salary at both sites. Very few do. And even when they do, the total salaries for a LU are different.

I know its important... but he didnt have FD ownership %. He had DK ownership %. There may be some similarities, but it's not exact obviously due to different salaries and lineups.

E.g. Jeremy Hill was probably low owned on both sites.... you would've know than from Thursday. Again, I don't see the execution here.

 
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Didn't he win 350k on Football, not MLB?

I know its important... but he didnt have FD ownership %. He had DK ownership %. There may be some similarities, but it's not exact obviously due to different salaries and lineups.

E.g. Jeremy Hill was probably low owned on both sites.... you would've know than from Thursday. Again, I don't see the execution here.
If I remember correctly from the 30+ pages I have read at RG, He went on a tear and won 350K playing baseball. The tweet gaffe that opened this all up was made on week 3 ownership for football.

 
Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR, yes.... bad for the industry overall, yes... but if I had that DK data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k at FD today.
the data was not solely responsible for this cat winning 350k, i don't think anyone would dispute that there's a ton of positive variance at work there. but the data significantly increases his EV. there's pretty clearly a point that lies between him shipping 350k solely because of the data and him gaining no advantage whatsoever from the data. that's where I think we are.

as far as the salary/site scoring differences, I'd account for that by looking at player salary as a % of total team salary. so, a guy that costs 10,000 on DK costs 20% of total salary. if he's 10,100 on FD, he's a bit more expensive on DK. you can pretty easily derive an equation to relate the two, but I'm not going to spend any time thinking about it as DK has yet to reply to my emails asking for a job.

not going to spend much time thinking about the scoring differences either, but say you take a player like Edelman whose historical fantasy scoring has come more proportionally from receptions that yardage and TDs, relatively speaking. develop some relationship equation that takes that stuff into account.

I'm not saying he didn't still have to work to put together good lineups, and I'm not saying this stuff was particularly easy. but this data definitely provides him an advantage, and it is sizable imo.

 
Whether he cheated or not isn't really the issue in my mind. This type of data should not be accessible for just any employee. DraftKings' statement claims that they have safeguards in place to prevent this from happening, but they clearly didn't work (if they even existed) because the numbers were published before some of the games started.

The fact that the employee in question won the same week on Fanduel is what is making this story blow up. FD/DK have incurred the wrath of just about everyone in America with their ad campaigns, so of course the media is going to go in for the kill when they smell blood. And the lack of response from the sites has been pathetic and its part of the reason this has blown up.

I'm definitely alarmed that this data is accessible to people who are allowed to play other sites though. I know one of the high volume NHL players that I face every night is a DK employee. I'd like to think there is no cheating going on, but now I can't really be sure. I have also been upset that Jonathan Bales is allowed to request all sorts of data and then publish books based on that data while still being able to play on the site. I know the data he gets is published on the DraftKings site eventually, but I think him making money off the data should preclude him from playing on the site. Especially if they won't give the data to anyone else.

For those reasons, I think some regulation would be a good thing. I definitely think allowing employees to not play on any site period is an obvious first step. But I really don't see this as the Black Friday of DFS. Hopefully just the moment that FD/DK realize if they want to be valued at a billion dollars, its time to start acting like it.

 
Couple things from reddit:

Anyone find it a weird coincidence that PetrGibbons (FD employee) has been on a heater on DK at the same time that Ethan has been on a heater on FD?
I haven't looked this up, but would be pretty easy to check Gibbons RG info to see if it true.

@Aaron_Da_King won $150K on the MM two weeks ago.

He was a new user from Massachussets playing a single bullet and entered this lineup.https://twitter.com/DraftKings/status/646391034931507200

Amongst his 102 followers on twitter are:

Zach Sanders

Ethan Haskell

Incidentally @zackpsanders won $250K on the MM last week
Seems a little too fish at this point to be a coincidence.

Thinking this guy only used this information on FD is pretty naive. He had the info and was using it everywhere he could, including DraftKings to whoever would take give him a cut of the winnings.

 
Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR, yes.... bad for the industry overall, yes... but if I had that DK data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k at FD today.

Given the amount of money that stands to be made and the ease of moving across sites, this is a climate ripe for insider trading. We see trading like this across industries. It would be naive to think DFS is immune.
This is like having insider trading information for Apple and making a killing on options trades for Google.
You can't be serious with this post.

 
Just to be clear, if anyone has any doubt, knowing the ownership percentages before rosters lock is a HUGE, MASSIVE advantage. It is more extreme in MLB, NBA, and sports were there is not Thursday game for reference. But in every sport it is game changing advantage.

 
Dodds has a lot of awesome data we don't have, but nothing like that, imo.
How do we know that? I don't trust anyone that is pimping DK and FD and has thousands of dollars at stake with those two. Those two are damn sure shady. Hell, condia got caught changing a lineup in NBA last year.
We don't and that's why I said IMO.

And I trust Dodds and people around here a helluva lot more than screen names like condia.

 
Couple things from reddit:

Anyone find it a weird coincidence that PetrGibbons (FD employee) has been on a heater on DK at the same time that Ethan has been on a heater on FD?
I haven't looked this up, but would be pretty easy to check Gibbons RG info to see if it true.

@Aaron_Da_King won $150K on the MM two weeks ago.

He was a new user from Massachussets playing a single bullet and entered this lineup.https://twitter.com/DraftKings/status/646391034931507200

Amongst his 102 followers on twitter are:

Zach Sanders

Ethan Haskell

Incidentally @zackpsanders won $250K on the MM last week
Seems a little too fish at this point to be a coincidence.

Thinking this guy only used this information on FD is pretty naive. He had the info and was using it everywhere he could, including DraftKings to whoever would take give him a cut of the winnings.
Link to reddit thread, please.

 
Here is a link with more info about PetrGibbons: https://dfsreport.com/6898/follow-up-to-draftkings-fanduel-mishaps/

Here are just a few of the reddit threads:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dfsports/comments/3nm9hr/coincidences_in_dfs/

https://www.reddit.com/r/dfsports/comments/3nl0rj/draft_kings_fan_duel_release_public_statement/

https://www.reddit.com/r/dfsports/comments/3nm28m/i_think_i_just_got_banned_for_rg_and_im_ok_with_it/

If I learned anything from online poker, people will do anything to make more cash. I will not be surprised when it comes out these guys could see screen names of who submitted lineups and exact lineups.

 
I think the only way they can prevent this is to release owner percentage for all players Thursday night when the game starts.. if everyone has the same data then this type of "insider trading" would be squashed..

:shrug:
It's a start but they've been caught changing lineups before.
Haven't seen Proof on this. Lots of accusations.. you have a link? :mellow:
https://rotogrinders.com/threads/condia-lineup-changed-mid-game-i-am-in-probably-50-217383

 
I am waiting for all of this to play out. In time I have confidence the facts will see the light of day. I am reserving judgement until then. That said, the key part to this story is I expect this to create a huge overlay in the MIllie Maker this week! :clap:

 
Dodds has a lot of awesome data we don't have, but nothing like that, imo.
How do we know that? I don't trust anyone that is pimping DK and FD and has thousands of dollars at stake with those two. Those two are damn sure shady. Hell, condia got caught changing a lineup in NBA last year.
I don't get any special data and would refuse it if it was offered.
I think I'm the genesis of that. But I didn't mean you received data from any DFS sites, only that you do this for a living. You have more data than I simply by virtue of the fact that you devote more time and energy to DFS than I ever will.

My personal take is that this Ethan guy gets far more of an "edge" from the fact that he is involved with algorithms and analysis on a level that dwarfs 99% of the people playing DFS.

 
Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR, yes.... bad for the industry overall, yes... but if I had that DK data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k at FD today.

Given the amount of money that stands to be made and the ease of moving across sites, this is a climate ripe for insider trading. We see trading like this across industries. It would be naive to think DFS is immune.
This is like having insider trading information for Apple and making a killing on options trades for Google.
I know I swore never to return, and I promise, I guess, to do so now. However, your lack of understanding of the gravity of the information in question demonstrates that you really have no understanding of the very game you are playing. It is incomprehensible that someone who spends even an hour per week on DFS cannot see the enormous edge this data would give anyone who had access to it - it matters little whether it is FD or DK but explaining that to you would be brutally boring and I am not sure I even believe someone could not see this. In fact, if I had this data I just about guarantee I would win a big tournament 1 time per year and I assure you my fanduel acct is bigger than your IRA and stock portfolio combined. Given your fundamental lack of knowledge about how this data would help someone a great deal, I suggest you never play DFS again. The same reason I take bread off the table of players like you every sunday is why you do not understand the enormity of this situation. In fact, it is likely that significant systemic changes and regulatory oversight will come as a result of recent events - that is, much smarter people than you understand why this was a "big deal" and will likely do something about it. If you truly cannot see the execution here, you are in way over your head and should focus on the rookie contests until you grow some teeth and then can come out of the kiddie pool. Until then I suggest you lay off the DFS game and ice up son....this racket ain't for you.

 
Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR, yes.... bad for the industry overall, yes... but if I had that DK data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k at FD today.

Given the amount of money that stands to be made and the ease of moving across sites, this is a climate ripe for insider trading. We see trading like this across industries. It would be naive to think DFS is immune.
This is like having insider trading information for Apple and making a killing on options trades for Google.
I know I swore never to return, and I promise, I guess, to do so now. However, your lack of understanding of the gravity of the information in question demonstrates that you really have no understanding of the very game you are playing. It is incomprehensible that someone who spends even an hour per week on DFS cannot see the enormous edge this data would give anyone who had access to it - it matters little whether it is FD or DK but explaining that to you would be brutally boring and I am not sure I even believe someone could not see this. In fact, if I had this data I just about guarantee I would win a big tournament 1 time per year and I assure you my fanduel acct is bigger than your IRA and stock portfolio combined. Given your fundamental lack of knowledge about how this data would help someone a great deal, I suggest you never play DFS again. The same reason I take bread off the table of players like you every sunday is why you do not understand the enormity of this situation. In fact, it is likely that significant systemic changes and regulatory oversight will come as a result of recent events - that is, much smarter people than you understand why this was a "big deal" and will likely do something about it. If you truly cannot see the execution here, you are in way over your head and should focus on the rookie contests until you grow some teeth and then can come out of the kiddie pool. Until then I suggest you lay off the DFS game and ice up son....this racket ain't for you.
:lmao:

 
Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR, yes.... bad for the industry overall, yes... but if I had that DK data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k at FD today.

Given the amount of money that stands to be made and the ease of moving across sites, this is a climate ripe for insider trading. We see trading like this across industries. It would be naive to think DFS is immune.
This is like having insider trading information for Apple and making a killing on options trades for Google.
I know I swore never to return, and I promise, I guess, to do so now. However, your lack of understanding of the gravity of the information in question demonstrates that you really have no understanding of the very game you are playing. It is incomprehensible that someone who spends even an hour per week on DFS cannot see the enormous edge this data would give anyone who had access to it - it matters little whether it is FD or DK but explaining that to you would be brutally boring and I am not sure I even believe someone could not see this. In fact, if I had this data I just about guarantee I would win a big tournament 1 time per year and I assure you my fanduel acct is bigger than your IRA and stock portfolio combined. Given your fundamental lack of knowledge about how this data would help someone a great deal, I suggest you never play DFS again. The same reason I take bread off the table of players like you every sunday is why you do not understand the enormity of this situation. In fact, it is likely that significant systemic changes and regulatory oversight will come as a result of recent events - that is, much smarter people than you understand why this was a "big deal" and will likely do something about it. If you truly cannot see the execution here, you are in way over your head and should focus on the rookie contests until you grow some teeth and then can come out of the kiddie pool. Until then I suggest you lay off the DFS game and ice up son....this racket ain't for you.
:lmao:

 
dgreen said:
TropicalStorm said:
Looking at ethans latest strings of GPP placings, its hard to believe he wasnt up to something. I mean the guy was placing towards the top on a consistant basis. Not really any bad entries.

Since july he has finished in the top 3 seven times..I am guessing he has the sports almanac from back to the future
No one believes that ownership data from DK gives anyone enough of an advantage to win that often on FD, right?
I don't quite get how this is helpful (or at least, super helpful). Dude had ownership percentage info from Draftkings and was able to win money at Fanduel? How can DK ownership % for Fanduel Sunday games be THAT much more helpful than Fanduel Ownership % from Thursday games? I mean, apparently it worked (or he just got really lucky with some educated guess that anyone could have made based from Thursday games).

http://deadspin.com/draftkings-employee-with-access-to-inside-info-wins-35-1734719747

This wouldn’t be an issue if different DFS sites had significantly different lineup data and game structure, but salaries are analogous between the sites, and the structure is the same.
This just isn't true... salaries are different and there's no kicker plus a flex. Player X with Salary $z and y% ownership on DK... ergo I should make THIS exact lineup on Fanduel where player X has a salary of not-$z, and ownership percentage of not y%?

I'm willing to bet (heh, get it), he had Santos at Kicker to win that much, and yet DK has no kicker...

Does not compute. Gives a hugely sketchy allegation that will be massively bad PR, yes.... bad for the industry overall, yes... but if I had that DK data, I don't think I'd be sitting on $350k at FD today.

Given the amount of money that stands to be made and the ease of moving across sites, this is a climate ripe for insider trading. We see trading like this across industries. It would be naive to think DFS is immune.
This is like having insider trading information for Apple and making a killing on options trades for Google.
I know I swore never to return, and I promise, I guess, to do so now. However, your lack of understanding of the gravity of the information in question demonstrates that you really have no understanding of the very game you are playing. It is incomprehensible that someone who spends even an hour per week on DFS cannot see the enormous edge this data would give anyone who had access to it - it matters little whether it is FD or DK but explaining that to you would be brutally boring and I am not sure I even believe someone could not see this. In fact, if I had this data I just about guarantee I would win a big tournament 1 time per year and I assure you my fanduel acct is bigger than your IRA and stock portfolio combined. Given your fundamental lack of knowledge about how this data would help someone a great deal, I suggest you never play DFS again. The same reason I take bread off the table of players like you every sunday is why you do not understand the enormity of this situation. In fact, it is likely that significant systemic changes and regulatory oversight will come as a result of recent events - that is, much smarter people than you understand why this was a "big deal" and will likely do something about it. If you truly cannot see the execution here, you are in way over your head and should focus on the rookie contests until you grow some teeth and then can come out of the kiddie pool. Until then I suggest you lay off the DFS game and ice up son....this racket ain't for you.
:lmao:
:boxing:

That is almost on par with Gianmarco's sig quote.

 
For those reasons, I think some regulation would be a good thing.
While pretending to fight against it, DK and FD want regulation to secure their duopoly.

The cheating employees do not help the situation with consumers and would not be the preferred way to usher in their goal of creating barriers to entry via regulation, but as bad as those employees' actions may be...the upside of paving a way to regulation is a big win for DK/FD.

 
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My take on all of this:

- These sites need to encrypt the data so that it can't be queried before lineup lock. Or failure to do that, just publish LIVE % owned calculations for all to see as the people are making their lineups. Both are likely radical tweaks from how these sites operate currently.

- Having players working for one not being able to play on another site doesn't solve the problem if an employee can query the database and get that info to someone. These sites have to stop any ability for data to be queried.

- I contend that a LOT of smart people could do major damage knowing % owned from one set and applying it mathematically to a different set of numbers.

- A lot of sites like ours are trying to crack percent owned. Why would we work so hard at that? Because it's needed to determine who to go after and who to fade in the bigger GPPs. Having precise or nearly precise data is a big edge. We can try and crack it, but it's a very imprecise world that creates it in the first place (ie mentions on FBG, RotoGrinders, etc can all move it)

I have hope that both of these companies are taking this extremely seriously. As for the allegations themselves, I am not going to get into that. I don't have enough facts to know what what really happened.

 
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My take on all of this:

- These sites need to encrypt the data so that it can't be queried before lineup lock. Or failure to do that, just publish LIVE % owned calculations for all to see as the people are making their lineups. Both are likely radical tweaks from how these sites operate currently.

- Having players working for one not being able to play on another site doesn't solve the problem if an employee can query the database and get that info to someone. These sites have to stop any ability for data to be queried.

- I contend that a LOT of smart people could do major damage knowing % owned from one set and applying it mathematically to a different set of numbers.

- A lot of sites like ours are trying to crack percent owned. Why would we work so hard at that? Because it's needed to determine who to go after and who to fade in the bigger GPPs. Having precise or nearly precise data is a big edge. We can try and crack it, but it's a very imprecise world that creates it in the first place (ie mentions on FBG, RotoGrinders, etc can all move it)

I have hope that both of these companies are taking this extremely seriously. As for the allegations themselves, I am not going to get into that. I don't have enough facts to know what what really happened.
:goodposting:

 
I think the only way they can prevent this is to release owner percentage for all players Thursday night when the game starts.. if everyone has the same data then this type of "insider trading" would be squashed..

:shrug:
It's a start but they've been caught changing lineups before.
Haven't seen Proof on this. Lots of accusations.. you have a link? :mellow:
https://rotogrinders.com/threads/condia-lineup-changed-mid-game-i-am-in-probably-50-217383
:shrug:

According to FD chat he had made the changes prior but because he is a high volume player they didn’t display until later.
I've personally seen this on my own end and I play at most 4 FD games a week.. I updated one roster and after clicking submit my "upcoming" screen showed the old roster and I'm thinking WTF!!!!..

I then clicked edit and my changes were there, went back to the upcoming screen and now they showed up.

:shrug:

 
Play regularly and not worried about this. If anything, it will speed up the process of getting better controls in place. Like getting people who don't gamble in there. But just let me pull most of my bank roll out while we see how this shakes out.

And winning on FD with data from DK? Meh. A little advantage which is certainly enough to warrant taking action. But my concern has always been more about having friends making bets for them on DK.

 
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Play regularly and not worried about this. If anything, it will speed up the process of getting better controls in place. Like getting people who don't gamble in there. But just let me pull most of my bank roll out while we see how this shakes out.

And winning on FD with data from DK? Meh. A little advantage which is certainly enough to warrant taking action. But my concern has always been more about having friends making bets for them on DK.
Check the link from my post above (dfsreport). It seems plausible this Ethan guy was swapping data with a guy at Fanduel. Both have some insane win rates since about March/April time frame.

And yes I also agree he could have given/sold the data to friends that can play at DraftKings.

It is a huge deal that anyone can access this information. And as I said earlier if they can check the ownership %, how can we believe they didn't check lineups of well known pros?

 
Has to be a way to encrypt that data, no?

Ah, missed Dodds post. Yeah, all that.

 
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I think the only way they can prevent this is to release owner percentage for all players Thursday night when the game starts.. if everyone has the same data then this type of "insider trading" would be squashed..

:shrug:
It's a start but they've been caught changing lineups before.
Haven't seen Proof on this. Lots of accusations.. you have a link? :mellow:
https://rotogrinders.com/threads/condia-lineup-changed-mid-game-i-am-in-probably-50-217383
:shrug:
According to FD chat he had made the changes prior but because he is a high volume player they didnt display until later.
I've personally seen this on my own end and I play at most 4 FD games a week.. I updated one roster and after clicking submit my "upcoming" screen showed the old roster and I'm thinking WTF!!!!..I then clicked edit and my changes were there, went back to the upcoming screen and now they showed up.

:shrug:
Any single incident would've explainable. But one shady thing after another keeps occurring. But go ahead and keep throwing your money away if you choose.

 
I think the only way they can prevent this is to release owner percentage for all players Thursday night when the game starts.. if everyone has the same data then this type of "insider trading" would be squashed..

:shrug:
It's a start but they've been caught changing lineups before.
Haven't seen Proof on this. Lots of accusations.. you have a link? :mellow:
https://rotogrinders.com/threads/condia-lineup-changed-mid-game-i-am-in-probably-50-217383
:shrug:
According to FD chat he had made the changes prior but because he is a high volume player they didnt display until later.
I've personally seen this on my own end and I play at most 4 FD games a week.. I updated one roster and after clicking submit my "upcoming" screen showed the old roster and I'm thinking WTF!!!!..I then clicked edit and my changes were there, went back to the upcoming screen and now they showed up.

:shrug:
Any single incident would've explainable. But one shady thing after another keeps occurring. But go ahead and keep throwing your money away if you choose.
:thanks:

 
just listened to dan back's rotogrinders podcast from yesterday. he seems like a nice guy but could he be any more of a shill for the industry? at least try to seem impartial.

 
DFS found a loop hole in the language of the law proclaiming "Fantasy Sports" not gambling..

Unfortunately with this news now getting full coverage on shows like good morning America that loophole might be closed..

Just hoping it doesn't bring back the reason the law was put in place to begin with, which was allowing "Regular" Fantasy football to go on.. :oldunsure:

 
You think Disney bought in without doing their due diligence on the Hill and with legal? Don't see daily going anywhere.

 
You think Disney bought in without doing their due diligence on the Hill and with legal? Don't see daily going anywhere.
:shrug:

Maybe not go away completely but guessing there will be more regulations put in place.. Some good in that as unregulated money making "games" isn't a good thing..

The question will come down to what kind of regulations and who ultimately pays the price.....

 
Pulled my winnings out today just in case there's a huge run and they don't have the cash to cover it. Going to leave $50 in for fun.

 
Interesting that every time someone steps into this hobby as a for profit business, it ends up with the company committing fraud.

 

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