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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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16 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

1.07 for Kyler Murray

12 team ppr, 1 QB

About right IMO in 1 QB. I definitely wouldn’t give a top 6 pick for him at this time. Maybe not even 7 if hot for Pitts.

Murray and Jackson are both guys I want no part of long term, I have serious questions about their abilities as passers (admittedly less so for Murray but still a worry.) They seem to me to be the next guys in a long list of running qb’s that shined brightly in fantasy for their running and then burned out when they couldn’t develop as passers.

But I would have been wrong on Josh Allen taking the step forward he did this year too. And sometimes these guys can burn bright enough to be real difference makers for a few years and then you can find someone else to replace them.

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12 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I hopped off the Kyler Murray train last season. He's an exciting young player but with his size and style He won't last long. 

Size sure, style I'm not sure I agree.  The dude slides almost every time he runs.  Somehow in 2 years he has not yet taken a single solid hit it seems like.

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6 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Size sure, style I'm not sure I agree.  The dude slides almost every time he runs.  Somehow in 2 years he has not yet taken a single solid hit it seems like.

He was hurt the last third-ish of the season.(After getting hit week 11 versus Miami)

More concerning is how teams seemed to figure out how to contain him in the pocket.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I just can’t get past how he looks like a small child out there. 

When I had him in that Superflex last year the first thing that struck me was that he looked like a small boy out there. It was really disconcerting to watch, in a way.

But he's better in the pocket than the people above are giving him credit for, though. They see mobile and think he can't really hang in the pocket and make plays there, but he can. He's only getting better, IMO. I probably wouldn't trade the 1.07 for him, but it depends on your team's makeup, I think. He was a top five QB this year, and people have been noticing that there's a real QB point-scoring drop-off after the first eight guys, so if you don't have one...

What I'm trying to say is I'd be fine with the deal, provided I had a top twenty back up for when he inevitably gets hurt next year for the two or so games a year he seems prone to missing in his pro career thus far.

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15 minutes ago, rockaction said:

When I had him in that Superflex last year the first thing that struck me was that he looked like a small boy out there. It was really disconcerting to watch, in a way.

But he's better in the pocket than the people above are giving him credit for, though. They see mobile and think he can't really hang in the pocket and make plays there, but he can. He's only getting better, IMO. I probably wouldn't trade the 1.07 for him, but it depends on your team's makeup, I think. He was a top five QB this year, and people have been noticing that there's a real QB point-scoring drop-off after the first eight guys, so if you don't have one...

What I'm trying to say is I'd be fine with the deal, provided I had a top twenty back up for when he inevitably gets hurt next year for the two or so games a year he seems prone to missing in his pro career thus far.

Oh, I agree that he’s a very good QB, with room to grow (no pun intended) but like you I get a bit taken aback when I see him in the huddle. When you see a pass rush you almost get afraid for him as if he was a boy. He is very good at avoiding the rush and knowing when to slide. I’m rooting for him just because he’s so different - even Brees, Baker and Jackson never seemed that small out there.

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He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

Is any non-running quarterback a constant top-flight fantasy QB besides Mahomes, though? And can't all of the running QBs get hurt on just one play, making them all unstable bets as cornerstones? I mean, I take your point about Murray being exceptionally small. No wonder he never got measured again after his initial combine measurement.

That said, it seems like one is going to have to accept the risk of injury to have a guy in the top eight. Look at Dak last year. He was on pace to be QB1 and he got gruesomely hurt scrambling. Seems like in leagues with one QB and 4 pt. passing TDs, their value is really tops when they're non-injured running QBs, unless they throw every down like Patrick and Dak did last year.

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Just now, rockaction said:

Is any non-running quarterback a constant top-flight fantasy QB besides Mahomes, though? And can't all of the running QBs get hurt on just one play, making them all unstable bets as cornerstones? I mean, I take your point about Murray being exceptionally small. No wonder he never got measured again after his initial combine measurement.

That said, it seems like one is going to have to accept the risk of injury to have a guy in the top eight. Look at Dak last year. He was on pace to be QB1 and he got gruesomely hurt scrambling. Seems like in leagues with one QB and 4 pt. passing TDs, their value is really tops when they're non-injured running QBs, unless they throw every down like Patrick and Dak did last year.

I think people are conflating running QBs with QBs that can run.

Murray is more the former (but not as much as say Jackson) and Dak is the latter. 

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

I think people are conflating running QBs with QBs that can run.

Murray is more the former (but not as much as say Jackson) and Dak is the latter. 

I get what you're saying and that's why I said Patrick or Dak. I consider Dak a passing QB who can and wasn't afraid to run. Murray is much less a running QB than Jackson. Murray's more on a par with Allen, who runs a lot, too. I mean Allen's and Buffalo's game this year was predicated on his rushing prowess. I'd consider both of them skirting the line between running QBs and QBs that can run.

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27 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I get what you're saying and that's why I said Patrick or Dak. I consider Dak a passing QB who can and wasn't afraid to run. Murray is much less a running QB than Jackson. Murray's more on a par with Allen, who runs a lot, too. I mean Allen's and Buffalo's game this year was predicated on his rushing prowess. I'd consider both of them skirting the line between running QBs and QBs that can run.

Continuing on the idea of who I would consider in the category of "Is any non-running quarterback a constant top-flight fantasy QB besides Mahomes, though?"...

Constant is a tricky word but there are several guys I'd consider in this category and thus select before Murray: Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Watson, Prescott, the incoming Lawrence, and even Rodgers. Add in Mahomes and that's already getting to be a pretty long list.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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26 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Continuing on the idea of who I would consider in the category of "Is any non-running quarterback a constant top-flight fantasy QB besides Mahomes, though?"...

Constant is a tricky word but there are several guys I'd consider in this category and thus select before Murray: Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Watson, Prescott, the incoming Lawrence, and even Rodgers. Add in Mahomes and that's already getting to be a pretty long list.

I should have said "consistent" instead of "constant," but I think you got my meaning. "Constant" is the wrong word there. I think I briefly thought of "all other things held constant..." for a moment to make a different point, but that's not what I was trying to say. I'm talking consistency here.

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

You do realize he was hurt, correct? The injury directly correlated with his drop off in rushing stats in the latter part of the season. And if you watched him play you could clearly tell he was not close to 100%. Obviously the rushing trajectory he was on through the first half of the season was not sustainable. Pretty sure he would’ve been right there with Lamar’s 2019 season if so. And speaking of Lamar, there’s a wide gap between him and Kyler as passers, too. 

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26 minutes ago, JoeJoe88 said:

You do realize he was hurt, correct? The injury directly correlated with his drop off in rushing stats in the latter part of the season. And if you watched him play you could clearly tell he was not close to 100%. Obviously the rushing trajectory he was on through the first half of the season was not sustainable. Pretty sure he would’ve been right there with Lamar’s 2019 season if so. And speaking of Lamar, there’s a wide gap between him and Kyler as passers, too. 

Yes. And that was part of the point.

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yes. And that was part of the point.

I think it’s premature and unfair to say that that sort of thing is going to be the norm after one season with him. Does he take some stupid and unnecessary sacks sometimes? For sure. To me, that’s the thing he needs to work on most. But when he scrambles he very rarely even absorbs contact because he’s so savvy with either getting out of bounds or sliding. Like a much faster Russell Wilson. 

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2 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

He still put up 6.5 points per game on the ground after the Miami game (discounting week 17 where he only played a few snaps), which is still a significant number.

 

1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

It's also worth noting that Kyler was a 23 year old in his second season this year when he put up 4000 yards and 26 TDs passing in 15 games.  Dak in his second year put up 3200 yards and 22 TDs in 16 games.  Josh Allen 3000 yards with 20 TDs in his 2nd year.

Part of the draw with Kyler was the very very very rare prospect where he was a running QB that still would have been a 1st round NFL pick even if he couldn't run.  I don't think we need to assume Kyler has reached his peak as a passer in year 2 when pretty much all of the other top QBs outside of Mahomes still had a ton of growing to do as a passer after their first 2 years.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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Just now, JoeJoe88 said:

So he suffers one injury in his second year and we suddenly have a precedent? Poor Joe Burrow. 

No, but you made Andy's point for him. That's all I was saying. Murray missed two or so games last year with hamstring problems, too. This year he had both shoulder and ankle issues. I'm not chalking him up to injury-prone or anything, but his size/height/weight and missing -- I think -- about four games in two years gives me at least a little pause.

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It's not a hill I'm really going to die on, though. It was in the context of your arguments that I sort of laughed because Andy was specifically worried about him missing more time in the future and you asked him if he knew Murray missed time this year. Just funny. No big deal. 

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

No, but you made Andy's point for him. That's all I was saying. Murray missed two or so games last year with hamstring problems, too. This year he had both shoulder and ankle issues. I'm not chalking him up to injury-prone or anything, but his size/height/weight and missing -- I think -- about four games in two years gives me at least a little pause.

He hasn't missed a single game.  But yes he was more nicked up then I remembered.

But then again his injuries were far less of an issue than either Mahomes or Dak, both "passing" QBs, over the last two years.  Rodgers has also had some pretty big injury issues over the course of his career, and Josh Allen missed 4 games for an injury and also had a concussion on top of that.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

No, but you made Andy's point for him. That's all I was saying. Murray missed two or so games last year with hamstring problems, too. This year he had both shoulder and ankle issues. I'm not chalking him up to injury-prone or anything, but his size/height/weight and missing -- I think -- about four games in two years gives me at least a little pause.

Exactly. It's the very reasons that explain away his lowered output that are the reasons I'd take about ten other guys before him.

It's not that he's not elite. I just think he comes with a lot more risk than several other guys.

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Just now, JoeJoe88 said:

Incorrect. 

Ah, okay. He was my fantasy QB that year and I remember him having either no performances or awful performances with the hamstring at the end of the year. He hasn't missed a game, it seems.

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4 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He was hurt the last third-ish of the season.(After getting hit week 11 versus Miami)

More concerning is how teams seemed to figure out how to contain him in the pocket.

Didn’t the Cards have some OL issues last year that exacerbated that situation? 

I seem to recall he had a lot less time to throw & was forced to scramble more (as opposed to choosing to do so). I don’t remember if it was injuries or if they were just a subpar unit (or both?)

So maybe a little bit of chicken & the egg on that one. 

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6 hours ago, rockaction said:

Ah, okay. He was my fantasy QB that year and I remember him having either no performances or awful performances with the hamstring at the end of the year. He hasn't missed a game, it seems.

Of course, there are times you wish they missed the game.

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On 2/11/2021 at 6:34 PM, Helaire-ious said:

As a Lamar owner in dynasty, I can see this deal IF Hurts is the starter. Otherwise, no way in hell. So too early to make this trade unless you have Dak etc as your other QB.

 

Also, I can't seem to give Lamar away

I was a Lamar owner in a SF league and moved him + Marquise Brown for Watson. Lamar is a brilliant runner but I have serious reservations about his long term prospects.

Edited by 32 Counter Pass
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32 minutes ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

I was a Lamar owner in a SF league and moved him + Marquise Brown for Watson. Lamar is a brilliant runner but I have serious reservations about his long term prospects.

I like that deal. I’m a bigger Watson fan for FF & worry about Jackson’s arm and his longevity. 

it’s tough to nail the value but if MBrown was someone you could afford to lose it’s a fair deal. Maybe a slight overpay as arguably LJax has the higher perceived value right now. But it netted you the dude you wanted, so close enough.

Almost seems like you could get Watson + WR for LJax though. I haven’t looked at a draft calculator in a while, but with Watson’s situation presently unsettled I have to believe LJax is the more valuable QB in that trade. 

But that all depends on who’s trading and what their respective needs are. Seldom do trades calculate on paper as they do between teams exchanging assets. 

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Couple of FFPC trades I've seen, I'm not involved but it's all the same league

Trade #1 - Hunter Henry, 1.10

for

Kelce and Corey Davis

Trade #2 - (the guy who got Corey in #1) Corey Davis, Jalen Reagor and Jerry Jeudy

for

Calvin Ridley

Trade #3 - Separate teams - James Robinson, 1.12

for

Alvin Kamara

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11 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

Couple of FFPC trades I've seen, I'm not involved but it's all the same league

Trade #1 - Hunter Henry, 1.10

for

Kelce and Corey Davis

Yikes. I would easily pay that for Kelce. I like Davis more than Henry as well. 

Edited by barackdhouse
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32 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Yikes. I would easily pay that for Kelce. I like Davis more than Henry as well. 

I paid something like 3 1sts for Kelce last year in a diff league. This looked real cheap to me too. 

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37 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

I paid something like 3 1sts for Kelce last year in a diff league. This looked real cheap to me too. 

One of the FFPC orphans I bought has Kelce in it and despite his age I think it would take a Godfather offer to get him from me. As long as my team is competitive. I just think he is going to be hungry to ride out Mahomes/Hill prime and that there is still a huge competitive edge to be had with him. There are lots of aging vets on people's trade blocks but I honestly don't think I've seen a single one with Kelce, and not sure if I've seen any deals with him either.

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10 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Couple of FFPC trades I've seen, I'm not involved but it's all the same league

Trade #1 - Hunter Henry, 1.10

for

Kelce and Corey Davis

Trade #2 - (the guy who got Corey in #1) Corey Davis, Jalen Reagor and Jerry Jeudy

for

Calvin Ridley

Trade #3 - Separate teams - James Robinson, 1.12

for

Alvin Kamara

FFPC is TE premium isn’t it? 1st trade is a massive rape job.

Trade 2 I imagine there are still some Juedy and Reagor believers that would love that side. None of those 3 would bring a single 1st on their own in my leagues right now and Ridley is criminally undervalued so I see that as 3 early 2nds for a 26 year old WR that finished as WR3 last year, pretty bad.

3rd seems a bit light for Kamara but nothing wrong with it.

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12 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Couple of FFPC trades I've seen, I'm not involved but it's all the same league

Trade #1 - Hunter Henry, 1.10

for

Kelce and Corey Davis

Trade #2 - (the guy who got Corey in #1) Corey Davis, Jalen Reagor and Jerry Jeudy

for

Calvin Ridley

Trade #3 - Separate teams - James Robinson, 1.12

for

Alvin Kamara

Team that acquired Kelce and Ridley knocked this off season out of the park, IMO. FFPC consolidation time and he did just that. Gave up bunch of depth and got two huge difference makers which is what FFPC is all about. Good on him to put his roster in a position to make moves like this and then being able to get them done.

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17 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

I was a Lamar owner in a SF league and moved him + Marquise Brown for Watson. Lamar is a brilliant runner but I have serious reservations about his long term prospects.

I would love to get Watson, but Watson owner does not like Lamar lol

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FFPC

Team A got: Will Fuller and Noah Fant

Team B got: Salvon Ahmed, 4th, LAR Defense

Now I know what you're thinking, "it's heavily lobsided" and you're right. FFPC reversed it rather easily. So then I thought that Fant was available for cheap.

I then traded Darrynton Evans, Gabriel Davis (who I absolutely love) and 2.06 for Fant. Still stealing though so I'm perfectly happy getting a young stud TE behind my Kittle. 

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7 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

FFPC

Team A got: Will Fuller and Noah Fant

Team B got: Salvon Ahmed, 4th, LAR Defense

Now I know what you're thinking, "it's heavily lobsided" and you're right. FFPC reversed it rather easily. So then I thought that Fant was available for cheap.

I then traded Darrynton Evans, Gabriel Davis (who I absolutely love) and 2.06 for Fant. Still stealing though so I'm perfectly happy getting a young stud TE behind my Kittle. 

The first trade is beyond awful and should have been overturned but if I'm the guy who would have got Fant but saw it overturned I'm non to happy seeing him dealt to someone else for  50 cents on the dollar. Good of you to recognize he was a bargain though.

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31 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

I then traded Darrynton Evans, Gabriel Davis (who I absolutely love) and 2.06 for Fant. Still stealing though so I'm perfectly happy getting a young stud TE behind my Kittle. 

I’d rather have Gabriel Davis over Fant, let alone give the 2.06 in this draft.  I think you are overvaluing Fant.  I would rather have any of the top 3 TEs in this draft over Fant or Hockenson, especially the top two.  Freiermuth could be there at 2.06 and Jordan most certainly will be.

Edited by JohnnyU
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32 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

FFPC

Team A got: Will Fuller and Noah Fant

Team B got: Salvon Ahmed, 4th, LAR Defense

Now I know what you're thinking, "it's heavily lobsided" and you're right. FFPC reversed it rather easily. So then I thought that Fant was available for cheap.

I then traded Darrynton Evans, Gabriel Davis (who I absolutely love) and 2.06 for Fant. Still stealing though so I'm perfectly happy getting a young stud TE behind my Kittle. 

I like this move for Fant a lot...he has a chance to be a perennial top 5 TE (and worst case he is a starting level TE)...he's only 23 and even though he had injury issues and a rocky QB situation he still ended up 62-673-3...I don't think you gave up anything you can't replace pretty easily...I don't see much exposure for you in this deal.

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10 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I’d rather have Gabriel Davis over Fant, let alone give the 2.06 in this draft.  I think you are overvaluing Fant.  I would rather have any of the top 3 TEs in this draft over Fant or Hockenson, especially the top two.  Freiermuth could be there at 2.06 and Jordan most certainly will be.

I disagree. Fant is entering his prime.  Any rookie TE, even Pitts, will likely need a year or two to adjust. Give me the sure thing in Fant without the wait. 

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29 minutes ago, Blick said:

I disagree. Fant is entering his prime.  Any rookie TE, even Pitts, will likely need a year or two to adjust. Give me the sure thing in Fant without the wait. 

No comparison in talent between Pitts and Fant.  I agree with you about adjustment, but I’m not sold on Denver’s QB situation either.  I also believe Freiermuth and Jordan are just as good, if not better, than Fant.  Both of which will probably be there at 2.06 (Jordan for sure) and he keeps Davis.

Edited by JohnnyU
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34 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I’d rather have Gabriel Davis over Fant, let alone give the 2.06 in this draft.  I think you are overvaluing Fant.  I would rather have any of the top 3 TEs in this draft over Fant or Hockenson, especially the top two.  Freiermuth could be there at 2.06 and Jordan most certainly will be.

Trust me, I love me some Gabriel Davis. He was my guy last year in the later rounds. I have him everywhere. This wasn't just about Fant, it was about having a solid young guy behind Kittle and hoarding the young ones. I'm not worried about Denver's QB situation either. 

I still have the 1.02, 1.05 and 2.02 so TE is still very possible somewhere but I'm acquiring ascending talent in Fant here for what I viewed as cheap. Worst case scenario is Fant does what he did this year, flashing and showing promise with a rough offense. He'll either maintain value, or get more expensive. Either way I'm not worried. I have Fant ranked similarly as rookie pick's between 1.06 and 1.10 in TE premium. Going from 2.06 to that for guys I was cutting is a steal. 

Plus the TE position is sooooo damn important for contenders. I'd rather hoard them a bit and let the value skyrocket when they hit. Fant has the best chance at that I believe. 

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7 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

No way are Friermuth or Jordan worth anywhere near more than Fant at this time. Pitts, yes.

I think Fant for Pitts would be a fair trade. Rookie fever is spreading faster than COVID right now. 

Edited by Blick
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On 2/13/2021 at 12:42 PM, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Didn’t the Cards have some OL issues last year that exacerbated that situation? 

I seem to recall he had a lot less time to throw & was forced to scramble more (as opposed to choosing to do so). I don’t remember if it was injuries or if they were just a subpar unit (or both?)

So maybe a little bit of chicken & the egg on that one. 

Cards need some serious OL help.

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3 hours ago, Zyphros said:

FFPC

Team A got: Will Fuller and Noah Fant

Team B got: Salvon Ahmed, 4th, LAR Defense

Now I know what you're thinking, "it's heavily lobsided" and you're right. FFPC reversed it rather easily. So then I thought that Fant was available for cheap.

I then traded Darrynton Evans, Gabriel Davis (who I absolutely love) and 2.06 for Fant. Still stealing though so I'm perfectly happy getting a young stud TE behind my Kittle. 

Yeah I like Fant there, too, but if by any chance I was weak at WR and had someone like Kittle at TE, I might move Fant for something like this but I would definitely look for a better deal. I'm guessing you are strong enough at WR that losing Davis isn't doing much (if anything whatsoever) against you but gaining Fant is a great shore up for a strong contender. Maybe like getting a Coke for 3 quarters. Doh!

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FFPC Superflex (this is a $250 orphan I bought for $29):

I gave Gaskin, 2022 2nd
I got Slayton, Harris, 3.05, 3.07

I have room to take another player here and this is a project that *could* win this year but I need to make these kinds of moves and churn.

Just a shout out that today I saw that there is a $250 team in one of my SF FFPC leagues for sale right now and that there is a high bid of $800. I just won the ship in this one and this new owner is going to have to win the whole thing to profit here. The team is good and a contender but not great.

I saw a $750 team today that has set the "buy now" price at $12,000 and right now there is a high bid of $4,000. I saw another that was a $1250 team with a current high bid of $5,000. 1st place in the $750 is $3750 (and possibly another ~$600 by finishing as the 1 or 2 seed). It would require winning the league to break even basically. These teams *are* in fact t-i-t-s but dang. I think that is just stupid. I paid full price for one orphan this year and I think it is just as stacked as these ones. 

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