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Josh Gordon - August 1, 2016 (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Soulfly3
- Start date
When is the next CBA? Even if it is legalized nationally, there's no incentive for them to change the currently agreed-upon rules.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I completely disagree for a few reasons.
1- Do you rather have your players continue to get drunk and reckless rather than go chill and smoke a doobie?
2- It's not performance enhancing
3- When players get suspended it takes away from their product, especially when it is the good players, so continue to have players get suspended for something that would not only be legal nationally but something that is less harmful and less addictive that every other pain killer known to man. After all, marijuana is a rather effective pain killer, and should not only be allowed by the league but should be encouraged over the narcotics they allow them to use now.
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Have to disagree you with there. Back in college, I was way better on Sega hockey when I was stoned out of my mind.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I'm not aware of any good QBs being suspended for pot. And until then, your "star players" argument is worthless. We all know who the NFL promotes and it isn't WRs from Cleveland or Jacksonville.
massraider
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I think it would probably be a bit reckless to assume one would preclude the other.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
ghostguy123
Footballguy
football fan
Footballguy
Saw these stories in the Footballguys.com News Section:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/roger_goodell_needs_josh_gordo.html#incart_river_index
Roger Goodell says Josh Gordon must convince him he won't slip up again if reinstated
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland//post/_/id/827/nfl-wants-josh-gordon-to-show-hes-changed-before-reinstatement
NFL wants Josh Gordon to show he's changed before reinstatement
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/roger_goodell_needs_josh_gordo.html#incart_river_index
Roger Goodell says Josh Gordon must convince him he won't slip up again if reinstated
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland//post/_/id/827/nfl-wants-josh-gordon-to-show-hes-changed-before-reinstatement
NFL wants Josh Gordon to show he's changed before reinstatement
Hankmoody
Footballguy
steelers1080
Footballguy
I'm really, really, really, really, really hoping that Carolina trades the Browns for Josh Gordon.
Then Soulfly will have to cheer for Cam.
Then Soulfly will have to cheer for Cam.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Ala Rams? We need a WR, so wouldnt be surprising at all.
This is the 2nd Soulfly train I've been on ... let's just hope it has a better ending than the Tre-train!
But going from history, wouldn't be surprised if the Browns drafted a WR with their first round pick (ala Rams)
Thing is, zero chance we take WR at pick 2
steelers1080
Footballguy
They'd be better off taking a WR in round 2. Plenty of talent will still be available, and while Treadwell is very good, he's not a tier above the other guys.Ala Rams? We need a WR, so wouldnt be surprising at all.
This is the 2nd Soulfly train I've been on ... let's just hope it has a better ending than the Tre-train!
But going from history, wouldn't be surprised if the Browns drafted a WR with their first round pick (ala Rams)
Thing is, zero chance we take WR at pick 2
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Mathew Berry just put out his early 2016 fantasy rankings.
How high does he have WR Josh Gordon ranked?
-----------
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/14765088/matthew-berry-very-early-2016-fantasy-football-rankings-nfl
Matthew Berry's very early 2016 fantasy football rankings
2016 Wide Receiver Rankings
RANK, PLAYER TEAM
1. Antonio Brown PIT
2. Odell Beckham Jr. NYG
3. Julio Jones ATL
4. Dez Bryant DAL
5. DeAndre Hopkins HOU
6. A.J. Green CIN
7. Allen Robinson JAC
8. Alshon Jeffery FA
9. Brandon Marshall NYJ
10. Demaryius Thomas DEN
11. Jordy Nelson GB
12. Brandin Cooks NO
13. Julian Edelman NE
14. Keenan Allen SD
15. Kelvin Benjamin CAR
16. Golden Tate DET
17. Martavis Bryant PIT
18. T.Y. Hilton IND
19. Sammy Watkins BUF
20. Emmanuel Sanders DEN
21. Randall Cobb GB
22. Mike Evans TB
23. Jeremy Maclin KC
24. Doug Baldwin SEA
25. Amari Cooper OAK
26. Jarvis Landry MIA
27. Eric Decker NYJ
28. Larry Fitzgerald ARI
29. Michael Crabtree OAK
30. John Brown ARI
31. Michael Floyd ARI
32. DeSean Jackson WAS
33. Steve Smith Sr. BAL
34. Donte Moncrief IND
35. Allen Hurns JAC
36. DeVante Parker MIA
37. Josh Gordon CLE
How high does he have WR Josh Gordon ranked?
-----------
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/14765088/matthew-berry-very-early-2016-fantasy-football-rankings-nfl
Matthew Berry's very early 2016 fantasy football rankings
2016 Wide Receiver Rankings
RANK, PLAYER TEAM
1. Antonio Brown PIT
2. Odell Beckham Jr. NYG
3. Julio Jones ATL
4. Dez Bryant DAL
5. DeAndre Hopkins HOU
6. A.J. Green CIN
7. Allen Robinson JAC
8. Alshon Jeffery FA
9. Brandon Marshall NYJ
10. Demaryius Thomas DEN
11. Jordy Nelson GB
12. Brandin Cooks NO
13. Julian Edelman NE
14. Keenan Allen SD
15. Kelvin Benjamin CAR
16. Golden Tate DET
17. Martavis Bryant PIT
18. T.Y. Hilton IND
19. Sammy Watkins BUF
20. Emmanuel Sanders DEN
21. Randall Cobb GB
22. Mike Evans TB
23. Jeremy Maclin KC
24. Doug Baldwin SEA
25. Amari Cooper OAK
26. Jarvis Landry MIA
27. Eric Decker NYJ
28. Larry Fitzgerald ARI
29. Michael Crabtree OAK
30. John Brown ARI
31. Michael Floyd ARI
32. DeSean Jackson WAS
33. Steve Smith Sr. BAL
34. Donte Moncrief IND
35. Allen Hurns JAC
36. DeVante Parker MIA
37. Josh Gordon CLE
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Thunderlips
Footballguy
georg013
Footballguy
My thoughts exactly. There are two sets of rankings that I pay little to no attention to: NFL.com and ESPN.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
To be fair, these are "early" rankings and Gordon hasn't even officially been reinstated yet. Maybe he moves him up once that happens. Otherwise these don't see all that terrible or misguided.georg013 said:
georg013
Footballguy
You know what, I have my dynasty hat on at a redraft game. The real problem I have is putting guys like Kelvin Benjamin and Golden Tate ahead of Sammy Watkins. Thats where he lost me. Sammy should be no worse than 9th on that list.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Last year Tampa Bay WR Mike Evans finished with 74 receptions for 1,206 yards and 3 TDs. He finished ranked 27th in our league so having him pegged at 22 is about right.
I'm sure if Gordon is reinstated he will rank higher. Then if he remains clean into training camp, he will rank higher. Then if he actually runs routes hard in practice and camp, something he's never done as a pro, he will rank higher.
Once the season begins, and if he stays clean, he will be one of the top-5 WRs in the league IMHO but right now I'm not losing any sleep over him being ranked 37th.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I just took him as WR25 at 3.10 in a dynasty startup mock with rookies. Until he's reinstated I think that's a good value. My Gordon milestones:
Current - WR20/21
Reinstated - WR15
Browns get a competent QB - WR10
Gordon playing/looking good in pre-season games - WR6/7
I don't think I can put him ahead of OBJ, Brown, Hopkins, Julio, or Robiinson under any circumstances. All are just as likely to dominate as Gordon, none have the suspension or pattern of behavior risk.
Current - WR20/21
Reinstated - WR15
Browns get a competent QB - WR10
Gordon playing/looking good in pre-season games - WR6/7
I don't think I can put him ahead of OBJ, Brown, Hopkins, Julio, or Robiinson under any circumstances. All are just as likely to dominate as Gordon, none have the suspension or pattern of behavior risk.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I'm not going to die on any hills fighting over a top-5 VS. a top-7 or even a top-15 ranking for Josh Gordon. Or if anyone thinks he will bust.
I know what he did in 2013 when he lead the league. He dominated, he lead the F'ng league in a season when he got suspended for the first two games, when he had a new OC and when he played with, not one, not two, but three, count em' three different QBs and they all pretty much sucked. Hell Antonio prissy-pants Brown's production dropped off a cliff once Big Ben went down so I feel fine ranking JG as a top-5 WR if everything falls into place. Its my opinion.
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georg013
Footballguy
An opinion that I agree with whole heartedly.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
That's pretty much what I was saying. Top 5/top 7 is splitting hairs it's kind of a 7-man tier there and if it's all falling into place for Gordon I'd feel fine rolling the dice at the end of it.
Chaka
Footballguy
Agree with most of this except Norv Turner is no longer his OC so even if he comes back completely motivated and McCown stays healthy for 16 (or Goff/Wentz produces early) there is no guarantee the offense will allow for him to dominate at the level he did with Norv.
'03 Hue was the OC in Was (Spurrier was the HC) he didn't have much to work with but got 80/1200/6 out of Laveranues Coles with Patrick Ramsey and Tim Hasselbeck throwing the ball.
'04-06 he coached WRs in Cinci and CJ and TJ had a very good run, light on TDs but yards/rec were there, but we can't say that was Hue's offense.
'07 as OC in Atl, Roddy put up 80/1200/6 with Joey Harrington, Chris Redman & Byron Leftwich
'10 OC in Oak...this season is best forgotten. How did that team win 8 games?
'11 as HC in Oak Hue miraculously got Darius Heyward-Bay to catch 64 passes (974/4).
'14-'15 Hue was the OC in Cinci with AJ Green as his #1 WR and a competent QB in Andy Dalton and AJ averaged 5.3 rec, 80.6 yards and .55 TD per game.
That projects to 85/1,290/8.8 per year. Great numbers and consistent with WR#1 production for Hue's career. However it is ridiculously short of Gordon's magical 2012 season where he put up 6.2/117.6/0.64 per game (projects to 99/1,883/10.3).
Barring setbacks of course Gordon should be reasonably projected to put up AJ Green type numbers but no one should hold out hope for a repeat of 2012.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Noting the Norv Turner connection is highly significant IMHO but I think you might be a lil-off on some years/numbers.
Here are his stats.
2012
- 16 games
- 50 receptions
- 805 yards
- 5 TDs
2013
- 14 games
- 87 receptions
- 1,646 yards
- 9 TDs
2014
- 5 games
- 24 receptions
- 302 yards
- 0 TDs
Getting back to the Norv Turner connection. Obviously, JG had the best production of his career with Norv Turner and that has a direct bearing to Hue Jackson. Why?
Norv Turner runs a 'vertical-stretch' offense based on a deep passing attack, the same principal of Hue Jackson's offensive philosophy and Hue Jackson did not hire an OC. He is going to call plays so he is running the offensive show.
I'm not counting any chickens but the Browns inked TE Gary Barnidge to an extension and he just played in the Pro Bowl. They 'reportedly' are close to signing an extension with WR Travis Benjamin who is coming off of a career year and he is one of the fastest WRs in the league. And Browns rookie RB Duke Johnson was just named Offensive Rookie of the AFCN the other day. Duke had the second highest number of receptions of ANY rookie last year, not just RBs but all rookies. Only Amari Cooper had more receptions. So he is a legit receiving threat out of the backfield.
The only complimentary receiving threat JG had in 2013 was TE Jordan Cameron, that was it.
Once again, not counting any chickens but, if JG comes back clean then it is possible that planets could align and that is even before noting that Josh McCowan is far better than any QB from 2013 or that the Browns could get a boost from a 'legitimate' rookie QB who actually pans out but even if a rookie QB has some struggles it wouldn't be worse than the stable of QBs Josh Gordon had throwing him the ball in 2013 and he isn't heading into the season with a suspension hanging over his head.
Not counting any chickens but the ceiling is very high IMHO.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think my projections were reflective of the fact that his ceiling is high. But as you pointed out there are more targets to vulture receptions and regardless of similarities Hue's offense <> Norv's offense.
Since 1960 only 14 players have caught 80+ passes and averaged 17 or more yards per reception, only Calvin Johnson and Jerry Rice did it twice. Only 6 WRs have averaged 18 or more yards per reception on 80+ receptions only Jerry Rice did it twice. And only 3 have averaged 18.9 or more yards per reception on 80+ receptions (which is what Gordon did in 2013), no one has done that twice (Tory Holt 2000 & Charlie Hennigan 1961 are the other two).
His ceiling is high, higher than my projections no doubt, but a repeat of his historic 2013 would unprecedented. I am merely cautioning against projecting anything close to that.
My projection for his upside would be maybe 90 receptions 1,500 yards (16.6 YPR) and 12 TDs. Those are monstrous numbers, which would put him very close to being the #1 WR in 2016. I wouldn't draft him based upon my upside projections because there are too many on-field question marks after him missing most of the last two seasons which, IMO, makes him much more likely to underachieve my 80/1,290/9 16.1 YPR) projections than overachieve (maybe in the 60/900/6 range 15 YPR ). But I like the guy and hope he proves me wrong.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Good stuff but Gordon is an outliner of outliner IMHO.
Can't stress caution enough but lest we forget, Josh Gordon did things in 2013 that no WR in NFL history ever did.
Basically in NFL history the ceiling is Josh Gordon with this stat.
Chaka
Footballguy
2013 was amazing. I have never seen anything like that.
But when players do things that no one has ever done I generally don't project them to do it again.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
True, true. Yet I have to note the unique ceiling of this player because if a player has never done something I'm more inclined to allow that a player who has attained the highest ceiling in NFL history could, come close, repeat, or even exceed his previous accomplishment.
Some other food for thought.
Hall of Fame WR Chris Carter. Never had a game over 168 yards.
Hall of Fame WR Randy Moss only had one 200-yard receiving game.
Hall of Fame WR, GOAT, Jerry Rice. In his 18 year, NFL career had two 200-yard receiving games.
Not only did Josh Gordon set the all-time NFL historic two-game receiving mark. He kept it going over to set the all-time NFL record in four games.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/09/josh-gordon-completes-historic-quartet-of-games/
Soulfly3
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Soulfly3
Footballguy
There was an emoji used after it, which is either "praying hands" or 2 hands high fiving...
Either way.... IT'S ON LIKE DONKEY KONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
ghostguy123
Footballguy
They have to wait till it is legal first. None of these guys would get prescriptions. The NFL isnt going to allow anything illegalBut yes, in the near future it will not only be allowed in the NFL but encouraged as well.
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Otis
Footballguy
There was an emoji used after it, which is either "praying hands" or 2 hands high fiving...
Either way.... IT'S ON LIKE DONKEY KONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
