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Otis fad diet thread — yoga, fasting, and kevzilla walking on🚶‍♂️ (12 Viewers)

On call BS started my day at 4:00 a.m. and I had a built-in excuse to skip the gym this evening. Still, I went. And I stayed after I realized I left my earphones at work; I like my gym, but the piped-in music is a 2 out of 10 on the Mateo scale.

Hit legs, medium, with intentions of wratcheting up the pain this weekend.

Rawr.... snooze.......

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Burning fat makes a lot more sense than burning muscle.

For one thing, a pound of fat provides around 3500 calories while a pound of muscle provides more like 1500 (as very rough estimates that may be pretty far off for some people in some contexts, but it's close enough for these purposes). When you lack access to food, your body doesn't want to forego the marginal 2000 calorie-per-pound advantage of burning fat compared to burning muscle in order to avoid a 3 calorie-per-pound disadvantage of preserving muscle compared to preserving fat.

For another thing, and much more importantly, adipose tissue serves pretty much no useful purpose other than providing calories when insufficient food is available. It doesn't look pretty, it doesn't contribute to strength or power or coordination of movement -- the only thing it's good for is providing energy in the absence of food. Muscle, on the other hand, is functional and useful. It helps you run away from predators or toward prey, fight male competitors for access to females, make tools, build shelter, throw spears ... it does all kinds of helpful things. (And that's just skeletal muscle. Other muscle tissue, such as the heart, does even more important things.)

Burning muscle to spare fat, when you could instead burn fat to spare muscle, would be kind of insane. It would be like burning cash to spare firewood.
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Your prior post mentioned that you could lose mostly muscle at the start of a fast.  My point to Otis was that you lose a mixture of fat and muscle and the latter could explain his initial climb in % body fat -  A calculation with a likely high margin of error.

Again, I'll use the term "wishful thinking" to assume its all fat during ketosis.  The quote below is from livestrong.com on ketosis and the muscle/fat question.  It touches upon the actual nutrition (protein, amino acids) of your diet, which would be difficult for the average guy to gauge.

"Burning muscle can occur, usually when your protein intake is not high enough, which can be a problem with some radical diets. The body needs 10 essential amino acids, and if you are not getting them in your diet, your body will scavenge muscle tissue for them. This can also occur when you are just not getting enough calories in general, and your body converts amino acids into glycogen for use. This process is known as de novo gluconeogenesis. The easiest way to avoid this is to simply eat more protein.  Remaining in ketosis and avoiding muscle loss requires a balance of nutrient intake. If you take in too much protein, such as possibly more than 30 to 40 percent of your total caloric intake, the excess will probably be converted to glycogen, and your body will no longer be in ketosis. This occurs because it is easier for you to burn carbs than it is to burn ketones, and your body will expend as little energy as possible. So ensure your protein intake is sufficient, but do not get too much. The remainder of your caloric intake needs to come from fat. And if you are active, remember, you will need more protein than your sedentary counterparts, according to Dr. Peter Lemon of the University of Western Ontario."

 
Nugget said:
Do we have stats for the fast?  Faster, better, handsomer?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I'm on the road in a hotel all week, and so never got to document. I want to repeat it when I'm home some time.

But I'm back to eating now, big meal last night after not eating all day. 

 
culdeus said:
Leucine is one of the holy trinity in bcaa stacks. It is spendy to get solo. 

Whey has enough to just roll with. 

Lean gains guys love the stuff though. Big part of their protocol. 
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Is there enough literature to say it's not wasting money? I get enough protein through food, so don't want to drink whey and would rather do straight leucine.

 
Charlie Harper said:
Is there enough literature to say it's not wasting money? I get enough protein through food, so don't want to drink whey and would rather do straight leucine.
Click to expand...
Just get Optimum BCAA if you want.  If I had to pick a 3rd supplement to go with after Fish Oil and Creatine it would be BCAA.

And leucine is food, just for the record.  mostly found in meats, not plants.  This gives the anti vegan meatheads some ammo.  

 
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Also Leucine is probably one of the most controversial items out there.  Since it is one of the few things that animal products have in abundance you have people pointing towards and away from it depending on their point of view, so be careful out there.

 
proninja said:
I want to work out for dem gainz, but I also want to lose fat. It's tough to gain and lose mass simultaneously, I get that, but I'd be curious to hear what @culdeus, @Maurile Tremblay and the crew think of this plan. 

I work out M/W/Fri morning. Working out fasted is stupid, and I won't do that. But what if I ate Sunday night through Thursday night, and fasted from Thursday night to Sunday night. I'd have two meals in my stomach before the gym on Monday morning, and I'd do one workout on Friday without breakfast, but I'm not stressed about that. 

Seems like I'd be able to do my workouts, as well as throw in a three day fast each week. Am I missing something here that would cause me harm?
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I don't get this.  What is wrong with eating veggies, some decent protein and fat and taking it easy on the sugarz, lift a little bit, walk a little bit, and #### your wife?

 
Was at scout camp today.  Was 94 at 9pm so me and the boy bailed on camping. We will be back at 8:00. Didn't get a traditional workout in but walking around campgrounds for 7 hours and passing my swim test knocked the crap out of me. I ate way too many peanuts but was able to avoid the mac and cheese at dinner. 

Go back for another 12 hours tomorrow.  High is only 101 - lbs should melt right off with a 25lb pack. 

Have a great weekend. 

 
proninja said:
I'm in a weight loss contest :shrug:

Also, what you suggest is basically what I've been doing, and it's been working, I'm just impatient. 
Click to expand...
You need to prioritize your goals. Lose weight, lose fat, and gain muscle? I don't know if there is such a plan, but if there is I am sure you'll be miserable trying to follow it.

 
I'm really staring to hit a groove doing 3-4 days fasting, then a day of keto-friendly food, then back into another stretch of fasting. I seem to be gaining and losing a few lbs of water weight every time I re-feed, though. Overall, works well, and steady losses. Just curious why I'm gaining water weight back from eating keto-friendly. Doesn't make sense, to me.

 
Scout day turned into a day of cheat meals. There were just no options and I burned a ton of calories, but I am way out of ketosis. Going by to crush a pizza and watch soccer tonight. Tennis at 7:00am tomorrow. 

 
GregR said:
I've let myself go for a long time, especially since an old sports injury to my knee kept worsening and encouraging me to be sedentary. Hit 290 lbs finally.

And then this week, got blood test results back from the doctor. He said it showed me pre-diabetic. I'm dedicating myself to getting in much better shape.

Starting point: 290 lbs

Updates:

Just going to spectate the contest, but I'll take all the support I can get.

June 28: 290 lbs
July 6:   277.4 lbs
July 10: 274.0 lbs
July 14: 270.0 lbs
July 19: 266.8 lbs
July 23: 261.7 lbs
 

Total weight loss:  28.3 lbs
Click to expand...
Likely picked up a little water weight during the work week that offset fat loss on the scale. That came back off this weekend, lost 5 pounds in 3 days.

Have continued exercising aggressively and weight lifting. Exercise bike has covered a distance equal to New York to Chicago the last 3 weeks.

 
MAC_32 said:
You need to prioritize your goals. Lose weight, lose fat, and gain muscle? I don't know if there is such a plan, but if there is I am sure you'll be miserable trying to follow it.
Click to expand...
I can't tell yet if I'm gaining much muscle from my weight lifting. Though the amounts I'm able to lift are slowly increasing. I'd like to put on more muscle but if all I manage to do is avoid losing much muscle while losing weight this quick, I'd settle for it.

I'm trying to make sure there's nutrients there when the muscles want them most.  I eat before I lift, and then eat again soon after. With protein a large part of both meals.  And I try to make sure I'm eating frequently enough that my body has some food in it whenever it feels hungry. 3 "meals" a day but then another 3-4 snacks of either yogurt or fruit.

If there is any other advice on what may help, I'm open to hearing it.

 
GregR said:
I can't tell yet if I'm gaining much muscle from my weight lifting. Though the amounts I'm able to lift are slowly increasing. I'd like to put on more muscle but if all I manage to do is avoid losing much muscle while losing weight this quick, I'd settle for it.

I'm trying to make sure there's nutrients there when the muscles want them most.  I eat before I lift, and then eat again soon after. With protein a large part of both meals.  And I try to make sure I'm eating frequently enough that my body has some food in it whenever it feels hungry. 3 "meals" a day but then another 3-4 snacks of either yogurt or fruit.

If there is any other advice on what may help, I'm open to hearing it.
Click to expand...
It really just depends on what is sustainable for you. From a high level, you're doing the right things. You won't win a weight loss competition, but you're more likely to maintain progress and be more successful in the long run than those that do. Eat well and exercise, the results may take more patience since your body needs mpre fuel to exercise but they will come. 

 
AAA ramblings:

  • Really pleased with being down anything this week - not that I had a bad week but rather my weight from last week was a mirage due to the dehydration. 
  • I'm going on 5 weeks now with the same cold/virus.  I finally broke down on Saturday and got the antibiotic from the pharmacy.  48 hours in I'm not sure if it's helping or not.  I'm beginning to wonder if my body is rebelling the weight loss and exercise
  • Because of said cold I've only lifted like twice in 3 weeks - very frustrating
  • Hit the 60 lb. loss threshold - based on visual cues I think I could still lose about 12 lbs of fat and hopefully add 5-10 lbs of muscle.  I'd like to settle in at around 170.
  • My apologies for not having all the updates done to the spreadsheet - I'll try to have everything caught up this week.  Work has been unbearable lately
LET'S GO!!!

 
Week 3 Weigh-In

Starting Weight: 178
Current Weight: 175
Last Week: 176.5
Week Lost: 1.5 lbs
Total Lost: 3.0 lbs
Total % Lost: 1.7%

Overall Starting Weight: 198.5
Current Weight: 175
Total Lost: 23.5 lbs
Total % Lost: 11.8%

@AAABatteries

I was happy I had a loss this week, as I had a couple of forced cheats last week (was out of office for work a couple of days, and they ordered in sandwiches....and cookies).  I did go to an amusement park with the family yesterday, so I did a LOT of walking, which I'm sure helped short term.

I was looking through my various apps, and was reminded I hit my all time high of 202 back in March, so before I was in this contest, but I officially passed the 25 lb marker for this year.  Hopefully I can pass that milestone for my time in this contest in a week or two.

 
Week 3 Weigh-In

Starting Weight: 198.2
Current Weight: 191.4
Last Week: 191.0
Week Lost: -0.4 lbs
Total Lost: 6.8 lbs
Total % Lost: 3.4%

@AAABatteries

Still holding excess water from my pizza re-feed on Saturday night.  Going to make a strong push toward 185 this week.

 
@AAABatteries

it is still the suck living out of the basement while kitchen and bath are remodeled.  Fun times with "communication" between wife and contractor going oooohhh so well.  Haven't been brave enough to try even a full day of water fasting but have done a couple days of fasting until just lunch.  Not sure if any benefit.  Those days I have felt better.  Probabaly because other days once I start eating I just can't stop.

How many calories are in David's sunflower seeds?  Good or bad snacks?  Better than chips but not nearly as good as carrots?

Current weight  218        

Last week 220.2

Going in the right direction overall.  Between baseball and football seasons for my boys so hopefully I can still be active.

 
@AAABatteries

Despite my previously documented cheats earlier this week, somehow managed a decent loss, and for the first time in I don't know how many years I am in the 250s and really want to make sure I stay there. Also hit the 40 pounds lost since I started focusing on this in April. I need to be super strict this week as Sunday is my anniversary and my wife wants to go to a real nice Italian place on Saturday night to celebrate. Then the following weekend we are travelling to Northern California for a long weekend so I know the eating will be less than ideal and the exercise will be lacking.

Phase 3 Week 3

Week 2 Starting Weight: 262.9
Current Weight: 259.5
Week Lost: -3.4

Phase 3 Starting Weight: 267.6 (from July 2 weigh in)
Current Weight: 259.5
Phase 3 Lost: -8.1
Phase 3 % Lost: -3.0%

Overall Starting Weight (from April 16): 300.1
Current Weight: 259.5
Total Lost: 40.6
Total % Lost: 13.5%

 
I think I've found a glitch in the matrix :unsure:

Went wine/beer tasting this weekend in the central coast. Ate extremely well/lean save for one bowl of clam chowder. Even had a tiny kids scoop of ice cream (cookie doh!). 

Down 3 pounds before i even fast today.

:mellow:

 
Timely, from MFP today:

Fasting versus Calorie Restriction

People are always on the lookout for quick and easy ways to lose weight, which is why there are approximately 5 billion new diet books written every year — that’s our unscientific, but probably not inaccurate, estimate. Speaking of unscientific, the problem with the plans in these books is their so-called “new” approaches to weight loss haven’t been tested, well, scientifically. And when they get scientists to pay attention, the plans often fail to produce the stellar results they claim.

One weight-loss method that’s gotten a lot of attention lately is fasting, where people go without eating for several hours (usually 16 or more) or even a full day. Search the internet and Reddit boards, and you’ll find passionate devotees talking about the advantages of fasting for weight loss, muscle gain and other benefits, like improved mental clarity. And while there is research to back up some of these claims, much of it is preliminary or was conducted on animals.

Lately, researchers have been looking into fasting more deeply and are starting to fill this knowledge void. A study published this May in the Journal of the American Medical Association: Internal Medicine sought to find out whether fasting was any better or worse at helping people lose weight than a more traditional diet. Here’s what they discovered:

WHAT DID THE STUDY EXAMINE?

The study looked at the effectiveness of two diets:

One was alternate-day fasting, where subjects ate a very small number of calories (25% of their daily energy needs) on “fasting” days, and an excessive number of calories (125% of their daily need) on “feasting” days.

The other program was more like what most of us imagine when we think of dieting: a calorie-restriction model where people aimed to eat slightly less than their energy need (75%) every day.

WHO TOOK PART IN THE STUDY?

One hundred people total: 86 women and 14 men, aged 18–64 (the mean age was 44). They were obese, but did not have metabolic diseases (like Type 2 diabetes or metabolic syndrome). Their cholesterol counts and blood pressure all fell within the normal range. The subjects were divided into three groups — those who were put on an alternate-day fasting plan, those who were put on a calorie-restriction plan and those who received no intervention. Changes in their bodies were rigorously tracked with researchers using a digital scale (DEXA machine) and MRI scanner to record subjects’ weight and body fat throughout.

READ MORE > DEBUNKING THE MYTH OF FASTED CARDIO

HOW LONG DID THE STUDY LAST?

A full year. The first six months were a weight-loss phase, and the second six-months were a weight-maintenance phase.

WHAT HAPPENED?

Both the alternate-day fasting and caloric restriction groups lost about the same amount of weight — the fasters dropped and kept off 6% of their body weight on average, while the calorie-restrictors came in at a 5.3% loss. Those in the fasting group struggled with adherence, however. There were slightly more dropouts in the group (13 of 34 fasters quit, compared to 10 of 35 bowing out of the caloric-restriction group). The fasters often ate more than their target goal on fasting days, while consuming less than the allowed mark on feasting days.

The researchers also monitored the subjects’ cardiovascular health through markers, like their cholesterol counts. That’s where one curious result occurred, which researchers cannot explain: By the end of the second six-month interval, those in the fasting group had experienced an increase in their LDL cholesterol. (LDL is what we think of as the “bad” cholesterol.) The caloric restriction group did not.

WHAT ARE THE TAKEAWAYS?

If your goal is to lose weight, fasting is an option you can try. It appears to work about as well as daily caloric restriction. Alternate-day fasting, which this study examined, is one option. Other popular ones include a 12-hour daily fast, a 16-hour daily fast (often called the “Leangains” diet), a 20-hour daily fast (known by many as the “Warrior” diet), or a 24-hour fast once per week.

Keep in mind that, prior to this study, a lot of the most compelling research showing body composition benefits of fasting was performed on “hard gainer” young males (i.e. guys who have a hard time building muscle). The results may not translate so well to other populations.

One group of people who should be especially careful with fasting is women. The approach can cause a cascade of hormonal issues in women, including thyroid imbalances and menstrual cycle issues.

If you try a fasting diet, do so in consultation with your doctor, especially if you have any cardiovascular risk factors like high cholesterol or blood pressure. Monitor both of them closely. And, perhaps most important, pay attention to how you feel throughout. The body often sends signals when something is going right or wrong. It’s our job to tune in to them.

Remember that no diet approach is magical. What matters is what works for you.
Click to expand...

 
The Gator said:
I think I've found a glitch in the matrix :unsure:

Went wine/beer tasting this weekend in the central coast. Ate extremely well/lean save for one bowl of clam chowder. Even had a tiny kids scoop of ice cream (cookie doh!).

Down 3 pounds before i even fast today.

:mellow:
Click to expand...
Weight can fluctuate a great deal based simply on hydration.   Another variable is content of the digestive system...

 
Nugget said:
So there is no take away.  Brilliant writing.  The described a study with 100 people, about 1/4 of which drop out, which is comparing fasting to calorie restriction.  And no one actually seems to fast in the study.  Conclusion: YMMV.  
Click to expand...


It's simply not possible to get a reliable study of fasting vs. CICO vs. Keto without an inpatient environment.  The dropout rate on these studies is huge.  Even CICO it's hard to keep people on for more than about 6 weeks.  

 
acarey50 said:
@AAABatteries

Despite my previously documented cheats earlier this week, somehow managed a decent loss, and for the first time in I don't know how many years I am in the 250s and really want to make sure I stay there. Also hit the 40 pounds lost since I started focusing on this in April. I need to be super strict this week as Sunday is my anniversary and my wife wants to go to a real nice Italian place on Saturday night to celebrate. Then the following weekend we are travelling to Northern California for a long weekend so I know the eating will be less than ideal and the exercise will be lacking.

Phase 3 Week 3

Week 2 Starting Weight: 262.9
Current Weight: 259.5
Week Lost: -3.4

Phase 3 Starting Weight: 267.6 (from July 2 weigh in)
Current Weight: 259.5
Phase 3 Lost: -8.1
Phase 3 % Lost: -3.0%

Overall Starting Weight (from April 16): 300.1
Current Weight: 259.5
Total Lost: 40.6
Total % Lost: 13.5%
Click to expand...
Awesome job!

 
Week 3 Weigh-In

Starting Weight: 279.4
Current Weight: 279.8
Last Weigh in: 282.4
Week Lost: 2.6 lbs
Total Lost: 0.4 pounds gained

Not terrible after almost 2 weeks of vacation.  We didn't make it to the Michael Simon restaurant's while in Cleveland.  Wound up doing other stuff with bowling friends of my son's.  Overall a good trip.

@AAABatteries

 
I can't lose weight.  I keep lifting, and keep getting bigger and stronger.  And as a result, I keep either putting on weight or staying stuck at my current weight.

I suppose in the end that's ok.  If I continue on a trend for another year of adding muscle and getting stronger and fitter but staying the same weight, that must mean I'm burning up a bunch of fat.  Maybe that's the best result for me anyway. :shrug:

 
Otis said:
I can't lose weight.  I keep lifting, and keep getting bigger and stronger.  And as a result, I keep either putting on weight or staying stuck at my current weight.

I suppose in the end that's ok.  If I continue on a trend for another year of adding muscle and getting stronger and fitter but staying the same weight, that must mean I'm burning up a bunch of fat.  Maybe that's the best result for me anyway. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Ya, you'll have to judge your results based on the mirror, and how your clothes are fitting.  If you are putting on muscle, the scale isn't going to go in the right direction.

That is somewhat disuading me from starting a lifting routine.  I am enjoying the constant feedback of seeing the scale go down, even if it is a half pound over the course of the week.  I feel if I start lifting, I'm going to stop that trend, but I know at my age and genetics, I'm not going to get jacked.  I'm just most likely going to retain a little more water, so the scale stops moving and I won't actually see any results.

 
Otis said:
I can't lose weight.  I keep lifting, and keep getting bigger and stronger.  And as a result, I keep either putting on weight or staying stuck at my current weight.

I suppose in the end that's ok.  If I continue on a trend for another year of adding muscle and getting stronger and fitter but staying the same weight, that must mean I'm burning up a bunch of fat.  Maybe that's the best result for me anyway. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Not sure how much muscle you're putting on but your metabolism should increase with more muscle meaning you'll need more calories to sustain your body.  In other words, you will lose weight in the long run.  I think anyone considering NOT lifting because they want to lose weight is crazy.

Another possibility is your simply on a plateau.    Stay the course.

 
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