Not just hard to measure. But hard to do. Mostly because they take thought and effort. Way easier (and therefore more attractive) for people to chase the latest hack or supplement.
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**Official Longevity Thread** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Terminalxylem
- Start date
Not just hard to measure. But hard to do. Mostly because they take thought and effort. Way easier (and therefore more attractive) for people to chase the latest hack or supplement.
Zow
Footballguy
I believe I am doing three things that will significantly help me with age: creating financial stability to retire without issue, developing a stable marriage/family so my personal life will remain consistent, and I am very adamant and good about getting good, restful sleep (even when drinking). I also still pretty regularly exercise and stretch most days, though it's nowhere near what I used to do.
Where I'm failing is that my diet is poor and my stress is currently high. I attribute a lot of this to working the stressful job with many hours to accomplish that financial stability. My current plan is to, when I can decrease my workload, correct my diet and drop 30 lbs. to hopefully reverse any current damage. I'm well aware this isn't the best laid plans. I also need to cut down on the binge drinking I do on the golf course.
Where I'm failing is that my diet is poor and my stress is currently high. I attribute a lot of this to working the stressful job with many hours to accomplish that financial stability. My current plan is to, when I can decrease my workload, correct my diet and drop 30 lbs. to hopefully reverse any current damage. I'm well aware this isn't the best laid plans. I also need to cut down on the binge drinking I do on the golf course.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Can’t open link - can you cut and paste the tests he mentions?
Without knowing more, I suspect this is predatory “VIP” medicine.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Sure, but that ship has sailed.
As to when my workload will decrease, I'm not sure. I'm working at an unsustainable and unhealthy pace, but it's hard to turn down the work because the money/business is there and I have four kids so it's difficult to resists not setting up college funds, etc.
Chaos34
Footballguy
Things I'm doing that hopefully keep me going in a healthy way for a long time. I stay physically active with a mostly daily 5 mile hike. Been doing the same route over 20 years now. It's a healthy addiction. I use resistance bands sitting here at my desk almost daily. Arms shoulders, chest. I have a basketball court in the backyard and do some shooting in the fresh air every day. I am maintaining a healthy weight through that exercise and a lowish calorie diet. I've almost completely quit drinking alcohol. I drink a lot of non-alcoholic fluids. I've almost completely eliminated sweets and keep sugars low by mostly avoiding the sweetest fruits, bread, rice, and pasta. I have, after decades of insomnia, finally figured out how to get a healthy 7-8 hours of sleep every night without drugs. I feel so good this morning. 7:30 AM and about to hit the trail. I intermittent fast as mentioned above and start almost every meal with what Primal Diet guru Mark Sisson calls a big@ss salad. Long ago, I posted here somewhere about making salads in advance with the "salad in a jar" thing. I avoid fast food. 6 months without a bite.
Where I need improvement. I eat processed meats. This comes from a recent (6-7 months ago) discovery of smoked hot dogs I like having available for a quick and dirty meal sometimes. I go through a pack of six every month. The same smoker does a smoked beef sausage that comes in around 16 ounces and that is also a monthly thing. Currently a key ingredient in the best split pea soup I've ever made. There's more. I eat pizza weekly, usually on the weekend with a ball game going, and it is usually topped with pepperoni or italian sausage. I feel dumb just confessing it. I am a really good Mexican cook, and I eat tortillas (flour and corn) all the time. So refined carbs are making it through via pizza, tacos, burritos, enchis.
I'm anti-social the past half decade plus since my kid finished high school. I coached basketball at the hs for 4 years. No more. I live alone with a cat. Most of my social interaction is on the internet in this forum and a couple dedicated to other interests. But I don't keep real life friends close. I don't have much face to face contact with the human race. I absolutely feel lonely at times. It's not woeful. I'm pretty happy most of the time, but this needs work.
Where I need improvement. I eat processed meats. This comes from a recent (6-7 months ago) discovery of smoked hot dogs I like having available for a quick and dirty meal sometimes. I go through a pack of six every month. The same smoker does a smoked beef sausage that comes in around 16 ounces and that is also a monthly thing. Currently a key ingredient in the best split pea soup I've ever made. There's more. I eat pizza weekly, usually on the weekend with a ball game going, and it is usually topped with pepperoni or italian sausage. I feel dumb just confessing it. I am a really good Mexican cook, and I eat tortillas (flour and corn) all the time. So refined carbs are making it through via pizza, tacos, burritos, enchis.
I'm anti-social the past half decade plus since my kid finished high school. I coached basketball at the hs for 4 years. No more. I live alone with a cat. Most of my social interaction is on the internet in this forum and a couple dedicated to other interests. But I don't keep real life friends close. I don't have much face to face contact with the human race. I absolutely feel lonely at times. It's not woeful. I'm pretty happy most of the time, but this needs work.
Chaos34
Footballguy
@Terminalxylem
It's not cut and pastable. It's a bunch of tweets. I'll list them if someone else hasn't when I get back.
When I crash dieted the very worst result was gout. OMG, it is incredibly painful. I was terrified it would be part of my life. But, it appears my situation was due to the high uric acids caused by crash dieting. Not a single flare up since dropping the weight, so 16-17 years. I feel very fortunate on this one and can attest it is absolutely the worst. My BiL is 70 and his hands and feet are covered in tophis. He suffers so.
I've been taking Metformin daily with a single Ibuprofen for a couple years. I don't have a script. I know a guy.
It's not cut and pastable. It's a bunch of tweets. I'll list them if someone else hasn't when I get back.
When I crash dieted the very worst result was gout. OMG, it is incredibly painful. I was terrified it would be part of my life. But, it appears my situation was due to the high uric acids caused by crash dieting. Not a single flare up since dropping the weight, so 16-17 years. I feel very fortunate on this one and can attest it is absolutely the worst. My BiL is 70 and his hands and feet are covered in tophis. He suffers so.
I've been taking Metformin daily with a single Ibuprofen for a couple years. I don't have a script. I know a guy.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Nm. Looked it up. Looks pretty sus.
People would do better spending the thousand on a healthier diet and/or gym membership.
Also, none of those biologic clocks are validated.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Always been a fan of working less when able-bodied, rather than sacrificing health for the potential of a nice retirement. But to each their own.Sure, but that ship has sailed.
As to when my workload will decrease, I'm not sure. I'm working at an unsustainable and unhealthy pace, but it's hard to turn down the work because the money/business is there and I have four kids so it's difficult to resists not setting up college funds, etc.
Zow
Footballguy
If I were single or didn't have kids I'd 100% agree with you.Always been a fan of working less when able-bodied, rather than sacrificing health for the potential of a nice retirement. But to each their own.Sure, but that ship has sailed.
As to when my workload will decrease, I'm not sure. I'm working at an unsustainable and unhealthy pace, but it's hard to turn down the work because the money/business is there and I have four kids so it's difficult to resists not setting up college funds, etc.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Even married, its not difficult. Kids make it far more challenging, but I know some people who can still manage a healthy work:life balance.If I were single or didn't have kids I'd 100% agree with you.Always been a fan of working less when able-bodied, rather than sacrificing health for the potential of a nice retirement. But to each their own.Sure, but that ship has sailed.
As to when my workload will decrease, I'm not sure. I'm working at an unsustainable and unhealthy pace, but it's hard to turn down the work because the money/business is there and I have four kids so it's difficult to resists not setting up college funds, etc.
It helps to choose a high paying career, and forego some money for a simpler, active lifestyle. Along those lines, I’ve elected to be part-time almost my entire career, and live in a place with cheap, year-round outdoor recreation.
ETA I think its doable with two kids, max. IIRC you have more…
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Zow
Footballguy
Yeah I got four all about the same age and they’re young.Even married, its not difficult. Kids make it far more challenging, but I know some people who can still manage a healthy work:life balance.If I were single or didn't have kids I'd 100% agree with you.Always been a fan of working less when able-bodied, rather than sacrificing health for the potential of a nice retirement. But to each their own.Sure, but that ship has sailed.
As to when my workload will decrease, I'm not sure. I'm working at an unsustainable and unhealthy pace, but it's hard to turn down the work because the money/business is there and I have four kids so it's difficult to resists not setting up college funds, etc.
It helps to choose a high paying career, and forego some money for a simpler, active lifestyle. Along those lines, I’ve elected to be part-time almost my entire career, and live in a place with cheap, year-round outdoor recreation.
ETA I think its doable with two kids, max. IIRC you have more…
Northern Voice
Footballguy
I'm already 98% plant based (my wife is vegan), about six months ago I had some blood work done (as I do every three months as part of a clinical trial I'm participating in for psoriasis) by the trial docs and they said my cholesterol was high and advised me to immediately start taking Omega 3 and book an appointment with my family doctor.
Of course, I booked the appointment with my doctor and had the blood work done in advance and my cholesterol was just within range (1.17/3.35) and BP a bit higher than I'd like (133/81). My doctor put all the info into some table and basically said not to worry about anything and come back in a year (then promptly retired 4 months later leaving me without a family doctor but that's for another thread) even factoring my family history - my dad died of a heart attack at 64. I've had two subsequent appointments with the trial docs and they haven't mentioned it at all (I know they're not meant to replace a family doctor).
I've noticed from my at home tracking that my BP and weight are pretty much directly correlated so I've been working on that first and foremost, I'm just asking myself if there is much value in the Omega 3 I'm taking right now that really just came as a result of one phone call from someone who wasn't my family doctor six months ago but I guess maybe it can't hurt...
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
What ‘s the ibuprofen for?
Metformin may be the next big thing. There’s a multicenter trial in the works - they’ve got sites to conduct the study, but not enough funding yet.
The goal of the study is getting metformin approved to treat…aging.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Chaos34
Footballguy
Well, diabetes is strong in my genes. When I was diagnosed pre-diabetic/metabolic syndrome, I was prescribed metformin, 500 mg a day. At the same time Maurile Tremblay, who you've replaced here as a common sense health info guy, posted a bunch of stuff about metformin - concluding maybe all us Americans should take it. I take a half pill a day, just 250 mg. I'm confident the research is coming back positive. My diabetic uncle was on 1700mg daily in his 90s with no issues. So I'm not worried about taking such a small dose. I test my sugar most mornings, like I already have it. I'm almost always in the 80s.
The study here and the ones listed below it and quite a few others... made me think one little ibuprofen a day might keep the COX away. Like caffeine, it seems to help me get more out of my 5 miler. That could be in my head though. I switch to low dose (82mg) aspirin occasionally. I guess it's cardio protective as a low grade blood thinner, clot preventer. A much longer review of the topic.
steelerfan1
Footballguy
Hi Term, curious if you view getting the omega 3 through actually eating fish, salmon, sardines, etc. the same as taking who knows what through a fish oil supplement? I had just listened to the topic with Rhonda Patrick and she was touting that this may be the most beneficial thing you can do for yourself. It’s crazy and frustrating the variance of opinions on nutrition…Fish oil might not be all its cracked up to beIn my journey through the cardiologist world, they all said to stop taking fish oil.
Not only was the best study Pharma-funded, they may have used a harmful placebo - mineral oil appears to be a nocebo, making fish oil look better than reality. Plus, issues with supplement purity, common in the poorly regulated nutraceutical world, may apply.
I talked about it in another thread, but the ratio of omega 3:6 appears to be the important factor. Lowering omega 6s, through eating less animal products (trigger alert!) is probably a better way to attain CV risk reduction, than adding fishy omega 3s.
Any more specifics than just that it looks "sus"?
I don't think anyone is suggesting this kind of thing is a replacement for a healthy diet or exercise.
Awesome. What foods do you normally eat for protein?
FairWarning
Footballguy
Unfortunately back in the day, both parents didn’t have to work.
FairWarning
Footballguy
if its dementia, I wouldn’t recommend leaving a parent home alone. It was a nightmare for me, ended up having the police help get her out.
JShare87
Footballguy
There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
eatbetter.com
Speak for yourself. I have been working on modifying my parents for years. Much easier than changing my lifestyle...
Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
Chaos34
Footballguy
Feel like venting atm, sorry. When my mom's world renowned oncologist, a man with his name on over 150 peer reviewed studies, told us it was game over and time for hospice, a family bruhaha convinced mom to keep fighting. Very reluctantly the Dr. suggested the Disney Cancer Center for a second opinion. They weren't hopeful but willing to try more radiation. 30 times. Increased her suffering, likely decreased her time. She was living with me. I took her to those appointments. Awful times. But she was "a fighter". When hospice became absolutely necessary, more bruhaha-ing, I was the one taking care of it 24/7 with a couple nurse visits a week. God bless those meds. They helped us both, hah.
@Terminalxylem has stated a few times end of life care is maybe the biggest problem in the healthcare industry. I think he's been that strong about it anyway. I also had to handle all the insurance. After things were said and done, I had to do the math. She rang up somewhere between 400-500k in unnecessary bills. For what? More misery. Medical bills are probably 3 times that by now. Costs are probably the 10th reason why we should all be wise enough to let go.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
What are the bagels made out of? I couldn’t find it easily on the website. I tend to stay away from replica plant based foods because they tend to have a zillion ingredients. Most of which I’m unfamiliar with.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
If I’m going to eat veggie, I just eat vegetables. I don’t need fake chicken. I’ve never understood the desire to recreate meatlike food with veggies. Complete with “blood”. Just seems so counter intuitive
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
My dad was 80 when he died, and with stage 4 liver cancer it was an inevitability he had accepted. But he hated the dependence he already had on others. He would have REALLY hated if it had gotten to the point of my mom changing diapers, etc. The whole thing just made me acutely aware we need to find a way to do better for people in these situations. If most of us want to avoid this, how are we so awful at making it happen?
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Sorry for your loss and the struggles you had to face. My respect and sympathy to you for caring for her.
I think a lot of education needs to be done for us, Westerners, re: interventions we CAN do vs interventions we SHOULD do, at end of life. The “fighter” mentality is a good one and vital to surviving cancer, but sometimes it just prolongs suffering and decreases quality of life when there would be more time to enjoy family and focus on maintaining dignity and agency during the transition.
JShare87
Footballguy
I get mine from Sprouts. I know they’re expensive, that price seems about right. As for the mushroom root “chicken” I’ll link it below. Also pick these up at Sprouts. These are amazing! By far the best chicken replacement I’ve tried. They also have a steak one which is pretty good too.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
Where is meati?
At Meati, we believe everyone should have the choice to eat nutritious, whole cuts of protein grown from nature. That's why we harness a single, infinite ingredient, mushroom root, to put delicious Good Energy on your plate without compromising on health for you and your family, or for the planet.
meati.com
JShare87
Footballguy
The ingredients for the plain bagel are:What are the bagels made out of? I couldn’t find it easily on the website. I tend to stay away from replica plant based foods because they tend to have a zillion ingredients. Most of which I’m unfamiliar with.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
If I’m going to eat veggie, I just eat vegetables. I don’t need fake chicken. I’ve never understood the desire to recreate meatlike food with veggies. Complete with “blood”. Just seems so counter intuitive
Water, wheat protein isolates, modified wheat starch, modified food starch, agave fiber, yeast, sea salt, and enzymes.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Sprouts has a great spicy salmon. And usually good heirlooms, which I eat way too many of (it's not so much the heirlooms as the fresh mozzarella that always accompanies it)
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
I thought it was gluten free. Not knocking you, the website just screamed gluten freeThe ingredients for the plain bagel are:What are the bagels made out of? I couldn’t find it easily on the website. I tend to stay away from replica plant based foods because they tend to have a zillion ingredients. Most of which I’m unfamiliar with.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
If I’m going to eat veggie, I just eat vegetables. I don’t need fake chicken. I’ve never understood the desire to recreate meatlike food with veggies. Complete with “blood”. Just seems so counter intuitive
Water, wheat protein isolates, modified wheat starch, modified food starch, agave fiber, yeast, sea salt, and enzymes.
JShare87
Footballguy
They have a gluten free version but only 10 grams of protein. Only 110 calories though so a pretty good ratio. I don’t get the gluten free version.I thought it was gluten free. Not knocking you, the website just screamed gluten freeThe ingredients for the plain bagel are:What are the bagels made out of? I couldn’t find it easily on the website. I tend to stay away from replica plant based foods because they tend to have a zillion ingredients. Most of which I’m unfamiliar with.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
If I’m going to eat veggie, I just eat vegetables. I don’t need fake chicken. I’ve never understood the desire to recreate meatlike food with veggies. Complete with “blood”. Just seems so counter intuitive
Water, wheat protein isolates, modified wheat starch, modified food starch, agave fiber, yeast, sea salt, and enzymes.
I get mine from Sprouts. I know they’re expensive, that price seems about right. As for the mushroom root “chicken” I’ll link it below. Also pick these up at Sprouts. These are amazing! By far the best chicken replacement I’ve tried. They also have a steak one which is pretty good too.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
Where is meati?
At Meati, we believe everyone should have the choice to eat nutritious, whole cuts of protein grown from nature. That's why we harness a single, infinite ingredient, mushroom root, to put delicious Good Energy on your plate without compromising on health for you and your family, or for the planet.
Thanks. $3+ for a plain bagel by itself buying 8 at a time for the volume does discount does seem expensive. But as the other restaurant thread notes, plenty of people are fine paying 3x what other things cost.
I think for me, just on principle I'd pass as if I wanted low carb, I'd just pick a normal low carb food. Not something that's usually high carb but engineered to be low carb.
And thanks for the mushroom root link. I feel sort of the same way about meat replacements. If I wanted to avoid meat, I'd just avoid meat. Not try to find something that was fake meat. Especially not something lab grown like Impossible or such. I'd just eat vegetables. The mushroom root seems a little more understandable as it's not a lab grown thing. Same with someone looking to grill portabello mushrooms sort of like a steak. I just mentally don't think of it in terms of substitutes I think.
MTskibum
Footballguy
I have a grandpa still kicking and living alone at 92 and a grandma on my mom's side who passed away last year at 90 who was living at their house till the end.
They both had a fairly high quality of life until their upper 80's. My grandma smoked until she was 40 and my grandpa smoked until he was 50.
The ones that died younger, my other grandma ignored a heart attack for a whole day and that really hurt her. She made it a couple more years, but the quality of life was not there. My other grandpa had a burst gallbladder/sepsis issue and was healthy one day/gone the next at 74.
They both had a fairly high quality of life until their upper 80's. My grandma smoked until she was 40 and my grandpa smoked until he was 50.
The ones that died younger, my other grandma ignored a heart attack for a whole day and that really hurt her. She made it a couple more years, but the quality of life was not there. My other grandpa had a burst gallbladder/sepsis issue and was healthy one day/gone the next at 74.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
While vegans are certainly at higher risk for protein deficiency than carnivores, it’s not common.
My vegan friends eat a lot of tofu, beans, peas, lentils, and nuts. There are more exotic sources like tempeh, quinoa and sprulina, too.
There are many other plant- based foods with lesser amounts of protein, but it’s not tough to get enough to maintain health. Okinawans, once the longest lived population on the planet, only eat between 5-10% of their calories as protein. For a 2,000 calorie diet, that’s only 25-50 grams of protein/day. A handful of nuts has 3-6 g, a serving of tofu, beans, lentils or quinoa is about 8 grams.
I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating: there is theoretical justification to limit protein in one’s diet, as certain amino acids ramp up aging pathways. Moreover, there is one large population study that showed increased mortality in middle aged people who consumed more than 10% of their calories from protein, principally from cancer. Of note, this finding was only associated with animal-derived proteins.
On the other hand, increased mortality has also been seen in older (>65) adults who consume low protein diets. This is likely a consequence of muscle wasting (sarcopenia), but that can be attenuated by exercise.
Anyway, I know this isn’t what you asked about, but our country’s evolution from demonizing dietary fats to carbohydrates has left us a little protein crazy imo. By and large, most American get plenty, including those who rely on plant sources.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Don’t know a lot about it specifically, though in general, there’s reason to try to get as many nutrients as possible from minimally processed, whole foods.Hi Term, curious if you view getting the omega 3 through actually eating fish, salmon, sardines, etc. the same as taking who knows what through a fish oil supplement? I had just listened to the topic with Rhonda Patrick and she was touting that this may be the most beneficial thing you can do for yourself. It’s crazy and frustrating the variance of opinions on nutrition…Fish oil might not be all its cracked up to beIn my journey through the cardiologist world, they all said to stop taking fish oil.
Not only was the best study Pharma-funded, they may have used a harmful placebo - mineral oil appears to be a nocebo, making fish oil look better than reality. Plus, issues with supplement purity, common in the poorly regulated nutraceutical world, may apply.
I talked about it in another thread, but the ratio of omega 3:6 appears to be the important factor. Lowering omega 6s, through eating less animal products (trigger alert!) is probably a better way to attain CV risk reduction, than adding fishy omega 3s.
In doing so, you get a milieu of vitamins, minerals, micro- and macronutrients; sometimes they interact in ways which make the nutritional sum greater than its parts. And it tastes good.
The other thing I mentioned before is the omega 6:3 fatty acid ratio. Theoretically, the optimal ratio is 4:1; while the standard American diet is 10-20:1. Increasing omega 3’s lowers the ratio, but the same can be accomplished by lowering omega 6 intake.
It’s more complicated than that though, as there are subsets of both omega 3 and 6 fatty acids, and some are healthier than others.
All this ignores general issues with assuring supplement content/purity, as well as ethical/environmental concerns related to fish consumption.
So you can probably understand why the messaging can be confusing, and seemingly inconsistent. But without convincing data supporting any specific supplement, I’d err on the side of getting nutrients from food.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
The website is seemingly informercial-inspired, littered with meaningless pop-science buzzwords, testimonials, and repeated celebrity endorsements from Tony Robbins - not exactly who I’d seek for medical advice. There’s also a bunch of non-evidence based blood testing, supplements, ED and hormonal therapies, as well as semaglutide, all slickly packaged with their brand.
Too much marketing, too little science for my taste. FTR, I feel the same way about almost all dedicated “low T”, and commercialized men’s and women’s health clinics.
I know these types of “practices” are cash cows for physicians who choose to monetize their credentials. I just spoke to one of my ER trained friends, who said some of his peers are choosing this pathway, rather than remaining in the hospital. They end up rubber stamping their name on prescriptions for testosterone, thyroid supplements, growth hormone, Ozempic, etc., with little more than a 5 minute virtual consultation. The work is monotonous, and plays upon people’s insecurities, but lucrative: he quoted a rate of $600/hr, which is a lot more than can be made working in an actual healthcare setting.
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Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
I feel like there's a Chris Hemsworth-sized hole in this thread wrt fasting, cold plunges, saunas, meditating, etc
TripItUp
Footballguy
It's not about being deficient, many nutritionists (previously cited) recommend a high protein diet with light weight training for advanced ages if you want to increase the span of your "active life".
It's almost impossible to achieve those goals as a vegan.
JShare87
Footballguy
I completely understand the fake meatI get mine from Sprouts. I know they’re expensive, that price seems about right. As for the mushroom root “chicken” I’ll link it below. Also pick these up at Sprouts. These are amazing! By far the best chicken replacement I’ve tried. They also have a steak one which is pretty good too.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
Where is meati?
At Meati, we believe everyone should have the choice to eat nutritious, whole cuts of protein grown from nature. That's why we harness a single, infinite ingredient, mushroom root, to put delicious Good Energy on your plate without compromising on health for you and your family, or for the planet.
Thanks. $3+ for a plain bagel by itself buying 8 at a time for the volume does discount does seem expensive. But as the other restaurant thread notes, plenty of people are fine paying 3x what other things cost.
I think for me, just on principle I'd pass as if I wanted low carb, I'd just pick a normal low carb food. Not something that's usually high carb but engineered to be low carb.
And thanks for the mushroom root link. I feel sort of the same way about meat replacements. If I wanted to avoid meat, I'd just avoid meat. Not try to find something that was fake meat. Especially not something lab grown like Impossible or such. I'd just eat vegetables. The mushroom root seems a little more understandable as it's not a lab grown thing. Same with someone looking to grill portabello mushrooms sort of like a steak. I just mentally don't think of it in terms of substitutes I think.
How is it almost impossible as a Vegan? I’ve been a Vegan for about 6 years and do just fine.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
Let me help you. I know a hamburger is delicious. I know the life the cow lives in a factory farm, the environmental affect of raising animals for meat and I know that red meat is linked to cancer.What are the bagels made out of? I couldn’t find it easily on the website. I tend to stay away from replica plant based foods because they tend to have a zillion ingredients. Most of which I’m unfamiliar with.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
If I’m going to eat veggie, I just eat vegetables. I don’t need fake chicken. I’ve never understood the desire to recreate meatlike food with veggies. Complete with “blood”. Just seems so counter intuitive
I would very much enjoy to have the taste of that hamburger without the death to everything that touches paths with the piece of cow flesh on my plate.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
My wife is vegan and eats 165g of protein a day. Tofu, beans, nuts, lentils, etc... it's really not hard.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
It's not. You're wrong.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
It doesn’t take a lot of protein to slow (nearly impossible to stop) muscle loss with age. Especially if you’re exercising. While I’m not advocating veganism, it absolutely is possible to get all one’s protein needs from plant sources.
Attia’s argument is we’re all gonna atrophy with age, so it’s best to maximize muscle mass when you’re younger. That way, you start at a higher baseline.
On the surface that makes sense, but he’s glossing over the potential impact of excess protein, and particular amino acids (eg. methione, arginine + branch chain aa) on aging. Animal studies show both caloric and protein/aa restriction promote longevity, and there’s the population study in humans showing higher protein intake increases all-cause mortality in middle age.
Or just take a look at extremely old, yet vibrant older people. They tend to be small in stature, active, and quite lean. If you ask them, they’ve been thin their entire lives. But they aren’t gym rats guzzling protein shakes. Similarly, none of the Blue Zones consume a lot of protein. No long lived population does.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Fasting: OK data in animals/model species, but less effective than caloric restrictions. No longevity data in humans. One decent IF study a couple years ago showed it wasn’t effective for weight loss. Unclear what the optimal fasting strategy is - duration of fast, frequency, nutrient composition of meals…
Cold/hot exposure - maybe helpful, but again, no good data. Relies upon the concept of hormesis, a phenomenon where something potentially harmful at high doses/exposure is helpful at lower levels, as it activates survival pathways, including something called autophagy.
Autophagy is the major mechanism of cellular housekeeping, where harmful/toxic stuff is removed, and cells are repaired. When calories/protein/etc. are abundant, anabolic (building) pathways are activated instead. While that’s not necessarily a bad thing, anabolism tends to shut down survival mechanisms, and waste products promoting aging accumulate. A little bit of stress (but not too much!) appears to shock the system into the proper balance.
Meditation - Stress relief seems good, though purpose probably more important. But it’s hard to study. Little downside though.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
My only issue with your statement is that red meat is “linked” to cancer. You can find a lot of correlation between cancer and many things- dietary and lifestyle, but that doesn’t necessarily equal causation. There are too many confounders to definitively say “red meat causes cancer”, IME.Let me help you. I know a hamburger is delicious. I know the life the cow lives in a factory farm, the environmental affect of raising animals for meat and I know that red meat is linked to cancer.What are the bagels made out of? I couldn’t find it easily on the website. I tend to stay away from replica plant based foods because they tend to have a zillion ingredients. Most of which I’m unfamiliar with.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
If I’m going to eat veggie, I just eat vegetables. I don’t need fake chicken. I’ve never understood the desire to recreate meatlike food with veggies. Complete with “blood”. Just seems so counter intuitive
I would very much enjoy to have the taste of that hamburger without the death to everything that touches paths with the piece of cow flesh on my plate.
Genuinely curious what your (and @Terminalxylem’s) takes on that would be. I recently started Mediterranean keto with 2-3 24 hour fasts per week. Started it to quickly lose weight, reduce insulin resistance and normalize BP.
Funny thing is, I was about to start a vegan diet before I got my fasting BG and HgbA1c results back. So, genuinely curious what data bears out.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Except it doesn’t taste like meat. One of these opened near me. We gave a whirl a few times. the attempt was amazing. Fake beet blood and all. The results In regards to flavor. Not so much. The fake cheese was vile. They had plant based ruebens,, chicken, burgers etc. the tempeh chicken sandwich was decent. the location near me folded after about 2 years.Let me help you. I know a hamburger is delicious. I know the life the cow lives in a factory farm, the environmental affect of raising animals for meat and I know that red meat is linked to cancer.What are the bagels made out of? I couldn’t find it easily on the website. I tend to stay away from replica plant based foods because they tend to have a zillion ingredients. Most of which I’m unfamiliar with.Thanks. Are they $25.50 for 8 bagels in the store? https://eatbetter.com/products/the-better-bagel?variant=41581389349069There’s a pretty good Vegan protein shake made by OWN with 32 grams of protein in it. I always have one after a workout and possibly two if I do a run over 5 miles. I also found these really amazing bagels by Better Brand. They have 26 grams of protein and are only 170 calories. I do two of those every night with my salad. My dinner usually consists of a large salad with a bag of microgreens mixed in. Olive oil as my dressing. I also throw in two pieces of “chicken” (made from mushroom root) into the salad. They contain 20 grams of protein each. I’ll attach a link for the Better Brand Bagels. They have a huge variety now, taste decent, and have a pretty clean nutrition label.
BetterBrand™
Designing a Better future of food. The Better Bagel features Fewer Carbs and More Protein.
And I'm not familiar with the "chicken" made from mushroom root. Is there a brand you like there?
If I’m going to eat veggie, I just eat vegetables. I don’t need fake chicken. I’ve never understood the desire to recreate meatlike food with veggies. Complete with “blood”. Just seems so counter intuitive
I would very much enjoy to have the taste of that hamburger without the death to everything that touches paths with the piece of cow flesh on my plate.
i get and support all of the reasons to eat vegetarian and I am doing it more and more. I just don’t get the desire for simulated blood Et all.
