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17 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

Is there a counter worth trying here or should I just move on?

I would probably let the other guy know I wouldn't give up both Allen and Golladay and see if he would restructure using only one of those guys.  Then depending on his answer you will know if it's dead or not.

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So with Hurts now the QB1 in philly how would you value him in a SF league?  I have 4 starting QB's on my team now so looking to move on and I won't trade Mahomes and no one will be excited for Cousins or Brady but for Hurts people will be excited for.  Anyone else own him and got any offers yet?  One owner offered CEH, it's 14 teams so QB's are really valuable.  

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2 minutes ago, frae said:

So with Hurts now the QB1 in philly how would you value him in a SF league?  I have 4 starting QB's on my team now so looking to move on and I won't trade Mahomes and no one will be excited for Cousins or Brady but for Hurts people will be excited for.  Anyone else own him and got any offers yet?  One owner offered CEH, it's 14 teams so QB's are really valuable.  

I'm not sold on Hurts at all. A less skilled RG3....so I'd cash out quick if I owned him anywhere as I think he gets exposed this year. But I'm not sure the Eagles brass cares. They probably plan on taking a QB early in 2022. 

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4 minutes ago, frae said:

So with Hurts now the QB1 in philly how would you value him in a SF league?  I have 4 starting QB's on my team now so looking to move on and I won't trade Mahomes and no one will be excited for Cousins or Brady but for Hurts people will be excited for.  Anyone else own him and got any offers yet?  One owner offered CEH, it's 14 teams so QB's are really valuable.  

I wasn't really trying to move him but I got offered 1.09 and 2.08 in FFPC superflex yesterday and I took it. If someone offered me CEH for my Hurts I would break my keyboard.

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43 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I wasn't really trying to move him but I got offered 1.09 and 2.08 in FFPC superflex yesterday and I took it. If someone offered me CEH for my Hurts I would break my keyboard.

Conversely now, what is Wentz’s new Dynasty value now that he has a real team to lead? 2021 first rounder in non-SF? Maybe he is comparable to Stafford in LA Rams?

Let’s discuss.

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I guess my opinion on Hurts may be out of whack from the consensus.  To me he's a running QB with a starting job that showed flashes as a rookie and whose franchise just (or is about to) showed a gigantic commitment to him.

I would for sure take him over any QB in this class not named Lawrence or Fields, and I'm not 100% sure I'd even prefer Fields over him at this point.

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6 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I guess my opinion on Hurts may be out of whack from the consensus.  To me he's a running QB with a starting job that showed flashes as a rookie and whose franchise just (or is about to) showed a gigantic commitment to him.

Agree, only hesitation is if they are committed to him and don't draft a QB in round one. Not sure trading Wentz was about belief in Hurts as it was Wentz wanted out and got what he wanted.

I'm in a tough spot in several one start QB FFPC leagues were Hurts is my QB3 behind  Mahomes/Dak, Mahomes/Herbert and Watson/Herbert. I think as you alluded our opinion of Hurts might be out of whack, I don't think anyone will give up much for him so I might need to try and deal one of the others instead, but other then Mahomes and maybe Watson I may not get much for them either or enough to give them up. Two of these leagues I cut Lamar during his rookie season, I hate that I'm staring down a potentially similar mistake if I can't move someone.

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7 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

Wentz is about QB20 and probably worth a mid 2nd round pick in 1 qb leagues.

As for fantasy I don't think I would give a mid-2nd for him in this draft.  Maybe 2022 when the RBs will suck.  As for this draft, he's probably worth a mid to late 3rd in a start 1qb league if you're desperate for a QB.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

As for fantasy I don't think I would give a mid-2nd for him in this draft.  Maybe 2022 when the RBs will suck.  As for this draft, he's probably worth a mid to late 3rd in a start 1qb league if you're desperate for a QB.

I would pay a late 2 if I was desperate so mid 2 is probably too high. I would pay a 3rd easily.

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Don’t think Wentz is worth more than a 2021 4th, at least IMO, in 1QB format. I wouldn’t even pay that. He doesn’t move the needle much and I would definitely give more for Hurts now because the added element of running. Draft a starting QB in the 6th/7th like Carr/Cousins/Brady. They all as good as or better options to Wentz.

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31 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

What pick is AJ Dillon worth in this draft, maybe a high 2nd?

Most owners paid a mid-1st and are expecting to get that in return.  With A Jones potential FA, AJ Dillon could fetch a lot more than a high 2nd.  I doubt you can get him for anything less than top 4 pick.   But how the A Jones situ works out will determine if it pays off ... 

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4 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

Most owners paid a mid-1st and are expecting to get that in return.  With A Jones potential FA, AJ Dillon could fetch a lot more than a high 2nd.  I doubt you can get him for anything less than top 4 pick.   But how the A Jones situ works out will determine if it pays off ... 

Dillon was a mid to late second round pick in every rookie draft I was in. That’s a sample size of 5, I realize, but I can’t imagine he was a mid-1st in most leagues.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Dillon was a mid to late second round pick in every rookie draft I was in. That’s a sample size of 5, I realize, but I can’t imagine he was a mid-1st in most leagues.

I got him in the late 2nd of a SF/IDP league last year.  I am not sure what I would want to give him up.  I haven't really thought about it.  

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I guess my opinion on Hurts may be out of whack from the consensus.  To me he's a running QB with a starting job that showed flashes as a rookie and whose franchise just (or is about to) showed a gigantic commitment to him.

I would for sure take him over any QB in this class not named Lawrence or Fields, and I'm not 100% sure I'd even prefer Fields over him at this point.

Yeah I actually kind of agree. In the superflex league I moved him for 1.09 and 2.08, I'm parlaying that into 1.03 and an RB1 that I need. I have Mahomes and a couple streamers at QB2 but in two other SF leagues Hurts will (should?) remain as my QB2 that I got for anywhere as cheap as a 4th rounder in an inseason trade this year (that is the one that turned into 1.09 and 2,08 here), to 11.03 in the startup last year as the 29th QB off the board. I think he will emerge here though. Hard to believe they can draft someone to replace him this year. Hurts should be the guy. I would probably take him as the 2nd QB as well but I value a few RBs and a couple WRs higher in terms of my own team needs in the one I moved him.

I also took over a really, really bad FFPC orphan (single QB) that had Mahomes and almost nothing else. But it had Hurts. So I chunked Mahomes for Claypool, Moss and a couple 2nds. So Hurts is now my QB1 and in theory I have profited and moved my team closer to being competitive. 

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I guess my opinion on Hurts may be out of whack from the consensus.  To me he's a running QB with a starting job that showed flashes as a rookie and whose franchise just (or is about to) showed a gigantic commitment to him.

I would for sure take him over any QB in this class not named Lawrence or Fields, and I'm not 100% sure I'd even prefer Fields over him at this point.

I have two issues with this.

First, I don't think the Eagles showed a commitment to Hurts - they de-committed from Wentz and, more importantly, his contract.

Second - Hurts still plays for the Eagles. Yes, there's a new coaching staff there but the talent on the team is the same.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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1 hour ago, robb said:

Conversely now, what is Wentz’s new Dynasty value now that he has a real team to lead? 2021 first rounder in non-SF? Maybe he is comparable to Stafford in LA Rams?

Let’s discuss.

I would put him comparable to DJones. Stafford is a proven commodity and a tier above. Not even close to a first rounder in non-SF.

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41 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Dillon was a mid to late second round pick in every rookie draft I was in. That’s a sample size of 5, I realize, but I can’t imagine he was a mid-1st in most leagues.

I bought him at 2.10 and 2.12. I was unsuccessful trying to trade for him at 2.9. These are all single qb/idp leagues, but only a couple idp's were gone then. 

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

Agree, only hesitation is if they are committed to him and don't draft a QB in round one. Not sure trading Wentz was about belief in Hurts as it was Wentz wanted out and got what he wanted.

I'm in a tough spot in several one start QB FFPC leagues were Hurts is my QB3 behind  Mahomes/Dak, Mahomes/Herbert and Watson/Herbert. I think as you alluded our opinion of Hurts might be out of whack, I don't think anyone will give up much for him so I might need to try and deal one of the others instead, but other then Mahomes and maybe Watson I may not get much for them either or enough to give them up. Two of these leagues I cut Lamar during his rookie season, I hate that I'm staring down a potentially similar mistake if I can't move someone.

In FFPC 12 team, 1QB, shallow leagues, Hurts is borderline droppable depending on other's rosters/needs. I’d take a 4th for him and be ecstatic if I got a 3rd. 

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Just now, joey said:

In FFPC 12 team, 1QB, shallow leagues, Hurts is borderline droppable depending on other's rosters/needs. I’d take a 4th for him and be ecstatic if I got a 3rd. 

This is what I meant by being higher on him then most. Lamar was droppable and dropped a lot at one time as well and I think Hurts has similar upside.

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32 minutes ago, menobrown said:

This is what I meant by being higher on him then most. Lamar was droppable and dropped a lot at one time as well and I think Hurts has similar upside.

Yep, Hurts now has a lot of parallels to Lamar this time 2 years ago. 

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3 hours ago, menobrown said:

Agree, only hesitation is if they are committed to him and don't draft a QB in round one. Not sure trading Wentz was about belief in Hurts as it was Wentz wanted out and got what he wanted.

I'm in a tough spot in several one start QB FFPC leagues were Hurts is my QB3 behind  Mahomes/Dak, Mahomes/Herbert and Watson/Herbert. I think as you alluded our opinion of Hurts might be out of whack, I don't think anyone will give up much for him so I might need to try and deal one of the others instead, but other then Mahomes and maybe Watson I may not get much for them either or enough to give them up. Two of these leagues I cut Lamar during his rookie season, I hate that I'm staring down a potentially similar mistake if I can't move someone.

I feel like you have to flip pieces of this. If you have these options on solid teams I would probably never move Mahomes but I would really try hard to take your best deal you can get with Dak, Herbert, and your choice of Watson/Herbert respectively (if not Hurts that is). If you can roster them through cuts in order to maybe shop for a better deal later that is one thing, but then you're looking at the inseason roster size of 20 where people really aren't trying to buy a QB. So I think now is the time. Just my ten cents but in single QB FFPC having multiple elite QBs is a really good problem to have but I feel like you have to liquidate and it is hard to do. An elite QB can also perhaps close the gap between something like 1.08 and 1.03 to the right trade partner (or some such arguably large gap). 

I mentioned in the trade thread but in a single QB FFPC that I took over that I think will compete now, I moved Lamar for 2.04 and a future 2nd. Because I have Rodgers and think he can play at an elite level now that McCarthy is gone, for at least another 3 years maybe a couple more. Lamar *might* be the guy to hold an edge over Rodgers in terms of what gets me over the hump to a ship, but that's really a crapshoot at best. Meanwhile, liquidating him is getting me capital to move up, move up, and get another one of those difference makers, which despite how important QB is and despite how ready I think my team is to compete now, it is those RB/WR difference makers (and Kelce) that I really need. I do not need a 2nd QB. And certainly not a 3rd.

But as we've said a million times, QBs are hard to move. Don't trade just to trade but I do think you have to try and skim some profit here. Again my ten cents and you know what you're doing so take it as you will.

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

Yep, Hurts now has a lot of parallels to Lamar this time 2 years ago. 

But the biggest inconsistency is that Philly hasn't completely revamped their entire offense around Hurts strengths.  This will be a key to his success (and was for Lamar).

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2 hours ago, joey said:

In FFPC 12 team, 1QB, shallow leagues, Hurts is borderline droppable depending on other's rosters/needs. I’d take a 4th for him and be ecstatic if I got a 3rd. 

Unless i have one of the top 6 QBs, I'm keeping Hurts and crossing my fingers. You can always pick up a D. Carr or Cousins week 3. 

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2 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

I feel like you have to flip pieces of this. If you have these options on solid teams I would probably never move Mahomes but I would really try hard to take your best deal you can get with Dak, Herbert, and your choice of Watson/Herbert respectively (if not Hurts that is). If you can roster them through cuts in order to maybe shop for a better deal later that is one thing, but then you're looking at the inseason roster size of 20 where people really aren't trying to buy a QB. So I think now is the time. Just my ten cents but in single QB FFPC having multiple elite QBs is a really good problem to have but I feel like you have to liquidate and it is hard to do. An elite QB can also perhaps close the gap between something like 1.08 and 1.03 to the right trade partner (or some such arguably large gap).

Yea I have to flip someone. Carrying two QB's in non SF is a burden, carrying 3 in the offseason is impossible.I started poking around on some offers already but was focusing first on including Hurts in a bigger package. I like your suggestion of trying to move up and will look at that, in leagues I own Hurts I'm sitting on picks 10, 11, 12 and a 13 as well and I'd jump at a chance to move him to get up to 6-7.

Oddly enough I spent more free agent money  picking up Hurts then I did on Mahomes, Watson or Herbert and when I picked him up in these leagues all my QB's were healthy so I had no need. It was late in the season, I was sitting on money and I mainly picked up Hurts as possible trade bait but also with the playoffs coming I wanted to maintain my QB edge and block a potential competitor from Hurts.

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35 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Yea I have to flip someone. Carrying two QB's in non SF is a burden, carrying 3 in the offseason is impossible.I started poking around on some offers already but was focusing first on including Hurts in a bigger package. I like your suggestion of trying to move up and will look at that, in leagues I own Hurts I'm sitting on picks 10, 11, 12 and a 13 as well and I'd jump at a chance to move him to get up to 6-7.

Oddly enough I spent more free agent money  picking up Hurts then I did on Mahomes, Watson or Herbert and when I picked him up in these leagues all my QB's were healthy so I had no need. It was late in the season, I was sitting on money and I mainly picked up Hurts as possible trade bait but also with the playoffs coming I wanted to maintain my QB edge and block a potential competitor from Hurts.

Absolutely. Would you move Dak or Herbert to move even further? Maybe, right? I think the perfect sweet spot to get the most value for a QB is during the draft with this kind of a move, but then you have to roster them thru cuts, and that is likely a dealbreaker. That's why I think right now is the best time because a market might actually exist. And if better picks can be had, I'm not in favor of waiting but that is a different point that we've gotten into before.

ETA not in favor of waiting in a year as loaded as this that is

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A variation of moving up from say pick 11 to 6 (or something close to those) is if you get to a point where you see more clarity in your tiers and even want to move simply like from say pick 9 to pick 7 (I think this may be a great example this year), add in one of those QBs and see if you can't get a different big piece back. So in addition to getting the tier jump to 7 you might also get a future 1st or equivalent. 

I love packaging QBs. I try to sell them in a way that is less than market but still getting me closer to my difference makers at other positions by liquidating at a reasonably high level. Rarely does anyone ever pay full price and if you need to sell to make room then expectations probably need managed. But moving from like 9 to 7, and using someone like Hurts to close the gap, or even Dak or Watson or Herbert, should be able to get done in many cases and it should yield a pretty big secondary piece coming back. And I don't think a future 1st is totally out of the question but probably on the high side. If you added another small piece to make it sexier, though?

The other problem with moving QBs (and again why I think it is imperative to cash out while they are hot) is not only finding the right kind of trading partner in terms of their valuations and such, but it has to make sense for their roster, too. This is why I've had more success including QBs as part of bigger deals and not so much on their own. But a team that is rebuilding isn't necessarily looking for an elite QB at this time. A middle of the road competitor is probably looking to shore up elsewhere (and to do the things we're talking about re:flipping QBs for liquidity sake). So it is almost only the best teams that you can find as a partner, or perhaps the very worst or novice, and that is kind of a thin needle. Plus all kinds of owners might be opposed to spending up for a QB in general, regardless of their roster.

Disclosure I did pay up for Mahomes in single FFPC a couple weeks back. 1.05 plus Burrow. Team is loaded and QB is my only weakness. Was. 

 

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2 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Absolutely. Would you move Dak or Herbert to move even further? Maybe, right? I think the perfect sweet spot to get the most value for a QB is during the draft with this kind of a move, but then you have to roster them thru cuts, and that is likely a dealbreaker. That's why I think right now is the best time because a market might actually exist. And if better picks can be had, I'm not in favor of waiting but that is a different point that we've gotten into before.

ETA not in favor of waiting in a year as loaded as this that is

Specifically with Hurts I think I could get more value if I waited till after the draft and eased concerns he's the guy. Of course this means I could get nothing if Eagles take a QB in round one. Can't imagine me keeping him that long however unless I make several moves, my leagues have been very slow and not just me but total league activity has been meager. Hoping FA in a month gives it a bolt and I can clear some space.

Yes I'd move Dak or Herbert as well to move up more, especially on teams were Mahomes is my top QB. But I could not get a late second for Dak this time last year so not getting my hopes up.

 

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6 minutes ago, menobrown said:

my leagues have been very slow and not just me but total league activity has been meager. Hoping FA in a month gives it a bolt and I can clear some space.

Yeah that's the worst. I have found I do much better in leagues that are more active. FFPC sells their dynasty format as easy to rebuild within. And I 100% agree. But the level of league activity is a huge problem if it is too low. I don't know the remedy. But my worst teams have been in those kinds of leagues.

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6 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Dillon was a mid to late second round pick in every rookie draft I was in. That’s a sample size of 5, I realize, but I can’t imagine he was a mid-1st in most leagues.

Seems about right. He should be valued as a mid to high first now though. I would be surprised if the Packers franchise Jones. If Dillon was coming into this situation as a rookie, with Jones gone, he'd be a top 5 pick.

As it is, Dillon has already looked good at the NFL level and popped off when they gave him 20 carries. I think his ADP will be late second, early 3rd by the time the season starts. 

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7 minutes ago, Apple Juice said:

Seems about right. He should be valued as a mid to high first now though. I would be surprised if the Packers franchise Jones. If Dillon was coming into this situation as a rookie, with Jones gone, he'd be a top 5 pick.

As it is, Dillon has already looked good at the NFL level and popped off when they gave him 20 carries. I think his ADP will be late second, early 3rd by the time the season starts. 

That seems too high to me, I don't know. I don't think I could take him top 8 over the big 3 RB/big 3 WR/TL/Pitts. at 1.9 I begin to be interested down to 2.3.

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Opinions on Derek Carr in Superflex? Late 1st'ish value? Plus a RB4?

The reason I ask is that one of the board members here bought Russell Wilson for Antonio Gibson and a future late 1st. Obviously Russ is better than Carr, but what's the gap? Just the RB?

Another QB trade in that same league was

Lamb, Herbert and Fant

for

McLaurin, JT, Jarwin, 2.12 

I don't want to discuss the trades themselves, but more so the value it takes to get to a good QB. It's absolutely crippling to NOT have the QB position solved.

Or looking at other QB's like Wentz, Goff, Ryan, Jones, Mayfield. All of who are likely solid'ish types of QB's for fantasy for at least a year or 2 but fail to capture the ceiling grab that's currently happening among fantasy QB's. Their all worth late 1st type of value? That won't even get you a replacement QB though in this class. 

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1 hour ago, Riddick02 said:

What is DeAndre Hopkin's value rookie pick wise?  Is he a buy with a high 1st + 2nd as the calculators are showing or should it take more/less? 

I would think you need get no less than 1.02 for him. Hopefully you get more. I think you can start by offering the high first and see what the response is. Where are your picks slotted in first and second?

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37 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

That seems too high to me, I don't know. I don't think I could take him top 8 over the big 3 RB/big 3 WR/TL/Pitts. at 1.9 I begin to be interested down to 2.3.

Just curious, but what is really more exciting about Harris/Etienne/Williams than Dillon?

Not singling you out here, as my first impression was similar in that the earliest we'd be slotting him in was after those guys.  But he'll likely have similar draft capital to those guys unless one of them ends up leaping up into the 1st round, he'll almost certainly have a better situation, and he will have the added advantage of having already at least flashed a little in the NFL.

He's actually younger than Harris, to boot.

I have a hard time moving him above Harris or Etienne, but really I don't see THAT much difference to the point where he shouldn't be in the same discussion as those guys.  They're not elite prospects and they will very likely end up in worse situations.

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39 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

That seems too high to me, I don't know. I don't think I could take him top 8 over the big 3 RB/big 3 WR/TL/Pitts. at 1.9 I begin to be interested down to 2.3.

I was thinking he is a 2.05 in super flew, and a 1.09 as you said in 1qb. I don’t own him but would offer these as I am interested in buying. I’m guessing Jones  wants a big payday and if Dillon is starter those prices are decent to pay. 

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4 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Just curious, but what is really more exciting about Harris/Etienne/Williams than Dillon?

I still think they might franchise tag Aaron Jones but more importantly he's not much of a receiver. For those reasons I like those 3 rookies over him myself.

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7 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Just curious, but what is really more exciting about Harris/Etienne/Williams than Dillon?

Not singling you out here, as my first impression was similar in that the earliest we'd be slotting him in was after those guys.  But he'll likely have similar draft capital to those guys unless one of them ends up leaping up into the 1st round, he'll almost certainly have a better situation, and he will have the added advantage of having already at least flashed a little in the NFL.

He's actually younger than Harris, to boot.

I have a hard time moving him above Harris or Etienne, but really I don't see THAT much difference to the point where he shouldn't be in the same discussion as those guys.  They're not elite prospects and they will very likely end up in worse situations.

He flashed a bit, but I don't want to get to excited about his 1 great game against a poor defense. If Jones and Williams are gone, his situation is likely as good or better than any of those guys. Although, GB could easily draft one of those guys round 2 to be their starter in that situation or another back a bit later to compete. I'm not sure he will be a threat on passing downs as those 3 should, but I could be wrong.

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23 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

Opinions on Derek Carr in Superflex? Late 1st'ish value? Plus a RB4?

The reason I ask is that one of the board members here bought Russell Wilson for Antonio Gibson and a future late 1st. Obviously Russ is better than Carr, but what's the gap? Just the RB?

Another QB trade in that same league was

Lamb, Herbert and Fant

for

McLaurin, JT, Jarwin, 2.12 

I don't want to discuss the trades themselves, but more so the value it takes to get to a good QB. It's absolutely crippling to NOT have the QB position solved.

Or looking at other QB's like Wentz, Goff, Ryan, Jones, Mayfield. All of who are likely solid'ish types of QB's for fantasy for at least a year or 2 but fail to capture the ceiling grab that's currently happening among fantasy QB's. Their all worth late 1st type of value? That won't even get you a replacement QB though in this class. 

I wouldn’t give more than an early second for him. 

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2 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

A variation of moving up from say pick 11 to 6 (or something close to those) is if you get to a point where you see more clarity in your tiers and even want to move simply like from say pick 9 to pick 7 (I think this may be a great example this year), add in one of those QBs and see if you can't get a different big piece back.

Disclosure I did pay up for Mahomes in single FFPC a couple weeks back. 1.05 plus Burrow. Team is loaded and QB is my only weakness. Was.

I like that deal for Mahomes especially when it's what you need.

I probably got overly aggressive on Hurts but at least I got people to respond more then usual. Made a few offers and all got rejected with no comment. Will likely soon have to focus on moving up less spots or looking at future picks and have also offered up Herbert and Dak.  I got QB rich people problems.

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16 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Dillon was a mid to late second round pick in every rookie draft I was in. That’s a sample size of 5, I realize, but I can’t imagine he was a mid-1st in most leagues.

Maybe my experiences were an aberration, but he went between 1.08 - 2.04 in my 4 leagues.  (again small sample size).    But I don't see his value going down now that A Jones is a FA (UFA?). 

 

ETA:  I don't own him anywhere!  Wanted him in 2.08 range....  missed out. 

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12 hours ago, Riddick02 said:

What is DeAndre Hopkin's value rookie pick wise?  Is he a buy with a high 1st + 2nd as the calculators are showing or should it take more/less? 

Do you have sufficient starters behind him? I'm not considering moving him until that window between the NFL draft and the start of rookie drafts. I think now is a good time to shop him, but only if I have suitable replacements in my lineup. I'd settle for mid 1-mid 2 if I check that box, but would set my sights higher to start.

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16 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Passing game.

Wow apparently I've been asleep at the wheel.  I did not realize until I just looked that Harris and Etienne both caught 40+ passes this year.  That is a huge number for a single season in college.

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17 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Wow apparently I've been asleep at the wheel.  I did not realize until I just looked that Harris and Etienne both caught 40+ passes this year.  That is a huge number for a single season in college.

I would be willing to bet the house that one of the reasons they were both lured to return to school for another year was assurances from their coaching staffs they'd work on their roles in the passing game to improve their draft stock. Not sure how much Etienne improved his stock but I think they both improved and will be better rookies for it.

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No way did ETN improve his draft stock. He might have been a late 1st early 2nd last year and will be similar this year. He got a college degree and played with his buddies in another championship game, which I'm sure had some value to him as he left lots of $ on the table. 

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